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Game Informer has released a God of War Ragnarok Combat Preview

Devs are still not making enough next generation only games and to notice graphical gains it takes consoles greater and greater performance increases (which it takes longer and longer for hardware manufacturers to deliver it and/or at higher costs and power consumption). Consoles are also not becoming large as big tower PC’s or costing similar amounts of money (they are more limited than those are).

Also, you are jumping from Xbox One X and PS 4 Pro, not the launch models, so well yes the jump is even shorter and less impactful.

No.
 

Loxus

Member
Nope.

The Last of Us (last game by ND on PS3):


Uncharted 4 (first PS4 only game by ND):


The Last of Us Part II (last game by ND on PS4):


The Last of Us Part 1 (first PS5 only game by ND):


I'm not impressed.
Your post makes it seems like your agreeing with him though.

If I understand right, he's saying leaps are getting smaller because the hardware isn't increasing enough in power because of many different factors.

Also, Developers pretty much have graphics down pack.




What needs a leap is gameplay mechanics, animations, AI and game designs.
 
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CosmicComet

Member
Please take your advice.

Show me the games that look more realistic than GOW or HFW or other PlayStation Studios games. This lion GIF you shared is NOT a game.
No, YOU need to fucking learn to read.

Slimy was responding to a guy who seemingly doesn't think games will end up looking much better than Ragnarok.

That other guy's post ended with"There is no doubt that games will get more realistic looking. But by how much?"

His implications were that Ragnarok is approaching some kind of ceiling of gaming graphics which is laughable cope over people not being impressed with Ragnarok.

Death Stranding in some scenes focusing on character models alone looks better than Ragnarok.

There are current gen tech demos that blow Ragnarok away--and history has shown that before a gen is over, early tech demos tend to be matched or surpassed by later in gen games.

Slimy's point wasn't necessarily that there are better looking games RIGHT NOW (although I will say I think Ragnarok looks no better than Demon's Souls thus far despite that being a launch title) but that things could be so much better. And they could be.

I also don't think HFW and Ragnarok should be paired together. HFW looks significantly better than Ragnarok, but even that looks more like the type of jump you'd expect from a launch title of a new gen. Not a title that comes out two years in.

Oh, and if you want a console game that looks better than HFW or Ragnarok, then I would point to the short gameplay reveal of Hellblade 2 back in December.

I genuinely thought it was another boring CGI until we saw it shift to player control.

I don't give a damn about the Hellblade franchise and I think Ninja Theory sucks, but I can say with certainty that graphically that does indeed blow everything else on consoles away graphically.
 
Nope.

The Last of Us (last game by ND on PS3):


Uncharted 4 (first PS4 only game by ND):


The Last of Us Part II (last game by ND on PS4):


The Last of Us Part 1 (first PS5 only game by ND):


I'm not impressed.

It looks great, but there's just something about how it's rendered it that looks very PS4 gen. Maybe it's the shaders and materials. It just looks like it firmly belongs in that generation. Which is true for 99% of games released this gen so far. R&C might be the only game I've played so far that didn't make me feel that way.
What about Demons Souls? I agree that Ratchet is unequivocally "next gen" looking
 
Do we even know if the recent Ragnarok gameplay footage was running at 60 fos?? It might not be but if it IS that could explain why it looks like such a cross gen (last gen?) game. This discrepancy between performance and fidelity modes has been very large for lots of games this gen. For example, Forza Horizon 5 performance mode vs quality is a generational difference. Most Series X owners just play that at 60 and probably havnt played it long enough at 30 fps to even know how big the difference is but it's huge. Everything is toned down in performance mode. So if this is Ragnarok at 60 then I think I can live with that despite still wishing it looked better.

Consequently, all too often games that people assumed were running at 60 fps in demos turn out to actually be 30 fps. Developers are notoriously cagey about this is will let gamers assume its 60 when it's not. They like to show off the game in the best fidelity possible so we could actually have an even less impressive performance mode than this footage when the game actually comes out.

Like .. I guarantee Naughty Dog's trailers were all taken from fidelity mode (Uncharted 4 remaster and Last of Us Part 1). Everyone assumes 60 fps.
 

CosmicComet

Member
This preview is about combat but here people arguing about graphics.

It's about gameplay in general. Which as you know, includes graphics that people have to look at.

The video was extremely brief and combat didn't show anything mindblowing to keep conversation going.

So naturally the conversation would transition to things that we can pick apart in detail, like visual details.
 

Loxus

Member
No, YOU need to fucking learn to read.

Slimy was responding to a guy who seemingly doesn't think games will end up looking much better than Ragnarok.

That other guy's post ended with"There is no doubt that games will get more realistic looking. But by how much?"

His implications were that Ragnarok is approaching some kind of ceiling of gaming graphics which is laughable cope over people not being impressed with Ragnarok.

Death Stranding in some scenes focusing on character models alone looks better than Ragnarok.

There are current gen tech demos that blow Ragnarok away--and history has shown that before a gen is over, early tech demos tend to be matched or surpassed by later in gen games.

Slimy's point wasn't necessarily that there are better looking games RIGHT NOW (although I will say I think Ragnarok looks no better than Demon's Souls thus far despite that being a launch title) but that things could be so much better. And they could be.

I also don't think HFW and Ragnarok should be paired together. HFW looks significantly better than Ragnarok, but even that looks more like the type of jump you'd expect from a launch title of a new gen. Not a title that comes out two years in.

Oh, and if you want a console game that looks better than HFW or Ragnarok, then I would point to the short gameplay reveal of Hellblade 2 back in December.

I genuinely thought it was another boring CGI until we saw it shift to player control.

I don't give a damn about the Hellblade franchise and I think Ninja Theory sucks, but I can say with certainty that graphically that does indeed blow everything else on consoles away graphically.
The only thing Horizon Forbidden West beats God of War Ragnarok in is vegetation. That I'll admit.


But that may change as we only really see one area. God of War 2018 still had decent looking vegetation. No doubt Ragnarok will improve on that.


Other than that, Ragnarok and Forbidden West are pretty much close, with Ragnarok looking better imo.




Also Hellblade 2 doesn't exactly look leaps and bounds better in comparison.
 

sachos

Member
SSR is the most distracting technique ever. It's so bad seeing light leaking on reflections because you don't have previous frame information q
As far as i know SSR is not a temporal technique so it does not use information from previous frames, it uses information from screen elements hence the name "Screen Space". The edge of the screen does not have enough information to fill the reflections so thats why it looks weird, its not light leak. I assume its falling back to the cubemap.
 
The only thing Horizon Forbidden West beats God of War Ragnarok in is vegetation. That I'll admit.


But that may change as we only really see one area. God of War 2018 still had decent looking vegetation. No doubt Ragnarok will improve on that.


Other than that, Ragnarok and Forbidden West are pretty much close, with Ragnarok looking better imo.




Also Hellblade 2 doesn't exactly look leaps and bounds better in compariso
Horizon beats Gow in geometry density and detail
 

onesvenus

Member
As far as i know SSR is not a temporal technique so it does not use information from previous frames, it uses information from screen elements hence the name "Screen Space". The edge of the screen does not have enough information to fill the reflections so thats why it looks weird, its not light leak. I assume its falling back to the cubemap.
SSR uses the previous frame data to use as a reflection. When the previous frame doesn't include some elements that are now seen, these artifacts appear.
You are right in assuming it's falling back to a cubemap. When I said it was leaking light I meant that.
 
Yea, hopefully we get a RT Fidelity and Performance mode.
I won't expect that.

PlayStation Studios are very particular about their lighting effects and choose a more controlled style over automated RT.

Examples: Lighting in TLOU 2, Ghost of Tsushima, Returnal, Demon's Souls, God of War Ragnarok* (so far) look fantastic, and they don't rely on RT. Ragnarok will likely be the same that depends on a carefully placed lighting setup to achieve the right artistic vision.
 
No, YOU need to fucking learn to read.

Slimy was responding to a guy who seemingly doesn't think games will end up looking much better than Ragnarok.

That other guy's post ended with"There is no doubt that games will get more realistic looking. But by how much?"

His implications were that Ragnarok is approaching some kind of ceiling of gaming graphics which is laughable cope over people not being impressed with Ragnarok.

Death Stranding in some scenes focusing on character models alone looks better than Ragnarok.

There are current gen tech demos that blow Ragnarok away--and history has shown that before a gen is over, early tech demos tend to be matched or surpassed by later in gen games.

Slimy's point wasn't necessarily that there are better looking games RIGHT NOW (although I will say I think Ragnarok looks no better than Demon's Souls thus far despite that being a launch title) but that things could be so much better. And they could be.

I also don't think HFW and Ragnarok should be paired together. HFW looks significantly better than Ragnarok, but even that looks more like the type of jump you'd expect from a launch title of a new gen. Not a title that comes out two years in.

Oh, and if you want a console game that looks better than HFW or Ragnarok, then I would point to the short gameplay reveal of Hellblade 2 back in December.

I genuinely thought it was another boring CGI until we saw it shift to player control.

I don't give a damn about the Hellblade franchise and I think Ninja Theory sucks, but I can say with certainty that graphically that does indeed blow everything else on consoles away graphically.
lol. Again, the lion GIF is not a game. It's stupid to compare it with a full-fledged game.

And nobody says that Ragnarok is the final frontier of graphics. Things take fucking time. Devs learn the hardware and tools to make better looking games generations move forward.

InFamous and Ghost of Tsushima were both made by Sucker Punch on the same hardware. TLOU Remasterd, Uncharted 4, and TLOU 2 are all made by Naughty Dog and are great examples of how games look better with time.

People expecting games at the start of a generation to look the same as a 4-second random in-engine render GIF are fooling themselves and arguing in bad faith. That's it.

And if Sony "dropped the ball" by not making Ragnarok next-gen, they gotta show the next-gen exclusives games that look significantly better than Ragnarok does. If they can't, what's the point of arguing it's a cross-gen game.

You know what some of the next-gen exclusive examples are: Callisto Protocol, The Medium, Gotham Knights.

Ragnarok already looks better than all of these games, despite being a cross-gen game. So what's the fuzz all about?
 

GymWolf

Gold Member
No, YOU need to fucking learn to read.

Slimy was responding to a guy who seemingly doesn't think games will end up looking much better than Ragnarok.

That other guy's post ended with"There is no doubt that games will get more realistic looking. But by how much?"

His implications were that Ragnarok is approaching some kind of ceiling of gaming graphics which is laughable cope over people not being impressed with Ragnarok.

Death Stranding in some scenes focusing on character models alone looks better than Ragnarok.

There are current gen tech demos that blow Ragnarok away--and history has shown that before a gen is over, early tech demos tend to be matched or surpassed by later in gen games.

Slimy's point wasn't necessarily that there are better looking games RIGHT NOW (although I will say I think Ragnarok looks no better than Demon's Souls thus far despite that being a launch title) but that things could be so much better. And they could be.

I also don't think HFW and Ragnarok should be paired together. HFW looks significantly better than Ragnarok, but even that looks more like the type of jump you'd expect from a launch title of a new gen. Not a title that comes out two years in.

Oh, and if you want a console game that looks better than HFW or Ragnarok, then I would point to the short gameplay reveal of Hellblade 2 back in December.

I genuinely thought it was another boring CGI until we saw it shift to player control.

I don't give a damn about the Hellblade franchise and I think Ninja Theory sucks, but I can say with certainty that graphically that does indeed blow everything else on consoles away graphically.
Fucking thanks dude.
 

pokel122

Neo Member
Game graphics look alright nothing mindblowing.
There, saved you 5 pages of weird discussions and comparisons about graphics
 

Jormatar

Member
I'll be there day one but let's face it this is the most underwhelming generation ever in terms of graphical gains (so far).
And it was to be expected. Next generation will be even worse. Diminishing return as we are getting closer to photorealism gen by gen.

At this point with PS6 I would fine with the graphical fidelity we have now as long as the resources would be spent on keeping the framerate as high as possible while maybe improving environmental destruction and physics.
 
Your post makes it seems like your agreeing with him though.

If I understand right, he's saying leaps are getting smaller because the hardware isn't increasing enough in power because of many different factors.

Also, Developers pretty much have graphics down pack.




What needs a leap is gameplay mechanics, animations, AI and game designs.
Don't forget a realistic story.
 

Zathalus

Member
I won't expect that.

PlayStation Studios are very particular about their lighting effects and choose a more controlled style over automated RT.

Examples: Lighting in TLOU 2, Ghost of Tsushima, Returnal, Demon's Souls, God of War Ragnarok* (so far) look fantastic, and they don't rely on RT. Ragnarok will likely be the same that depends on a carefully placed lighting setup to achieve the right artistic vision.
I'm pretty sure the reason these studios are not using RT lighting over baked or fake lighting is for the simple fact that the performance penalty is simply too high on consoles. Nothing to do with artistic vision, as you can pull off the same artistic vision with RT lighting easily enough (actually with development it is far easier).
 
I'm pretty sure the reason these studios are not using RT lighting over baked or fake lighting is for the simple fact that the performance penalty is simply too high on consoles. Nothing to do with artistic vision, as you can pull off the same artistic vision with RT lighting easily enough (actually with development it is far easier).
Could be.

But tbh, I don't mind. With PlayStation Studios titles, the last thing I worry about is visuals, graphical fidelity, and art direction. They always, always nail that.

Lighting in TLOU 2, for example, still looks better than almost all other RT-powered games on consoles. So whatever they choose to do, I've full faith in SSM.
 
Lighting in TLOU 2, for example, still looks better than almost all other RT-powered games on consoles.
These "RT powered games" on console are just using it for reflection. All the other lighting is done without RT except for a couple games that use it for shadows. In any event none of them are using RT for "lighting" except for Metro Exodus which uses it for GI. Exodus' lighting is much more dynamic and accurate than LoU1 and 2 though. It feels "alive" as the bounce light is constantly reaching to changes in lighting conditions. There's also much better light occlusion than any of these games using old methods. Just having reflections is not going to transform the lighting to the degree that GI would. Make no mistake Sony studios are not using it because the Ps5 simply isn't capable of having RT lighting at the level of fidelity that games like Ragnarok, Last of Us 2, Ghost of Tsushima etc has. That's why some games that do have RT can only use a fraction of what full RT entails. What's weird is why Sony Firsy party games don't use RT for shadows; AO,or GI (instead of the full suite) but again it probably comes down to those techniques being more demanding that RT reflections, which can use 1/4 to 1/2 res reflections and checkerboarding.

Even if Naughty Dog could've used just one type of RT in their recent game, the overall product would've been better looking for it than without because of how much more accurate and dynamic it us is. That's why I think its disappointing that Remake doesn't at least have reflections because their SSR looks awkward and is jarring when rotating the camera. That would've been a small but tangible improvement for them on ps5.
 

SlimySnake

Member
What about Demons Souls? I agree that Ratchet is unequivocally "next gen" looking
Demon Souls doesnt get enough love because of that fucking halo around the player in the undead states which basically where you spend 90% of the game unless you never die. It ruins the overall picture quality by adding a giant white blurry halo in the middle of the screen.

I took some screenshots last night without the undead character model and goodness my the quality of the textures, lighting and especially the tessellation is simply awe-inspiring. i dont think ive ever seen a game with a better use of tessellation. Every rock and brick feels like it has depth and sticks out like real bricks would.




 
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Elder Legend

Yoir Aee Member
How did this turn from talking about the combat of God of War Ragnarok to a pathetic pissing e-peen contest of visual showcases ?

For fucks sake, ya'll are like little kids in a kindergarden arguing over the dumbest crap.

It's been 3 generations and people still QQuing about "mah visuals, mah graphics, mah next gen leaps" it has taken PS3 roughly 3 years to start getting true next gen games.

PS4 games same thing, 2-3 years before cross gen ended.

And guess what with PS5 same shit, just wait another year or so and you'll get your next gen looking games. Who gives a fuck. There are so many games to play right now and look forward too. I love ya'll to death but this is getting super dumb.

Yes let's compare Sony 1st party exclusive against another Sony 1st party exclusive that were both made for cross generation platforms and meant to run on ancient hardware that was released in 2013. Honestly, what kind of leaps are you all expecting from a title that is forced to run on hardware like that? Oh its on PS5, so it will be glorious!!! No goofball, that's not how that works.

A cross gen game on ps5 will look near identical to previous gen version except run and look a bit better simply because the previous gen version is the lowest common denominator. Then again, this is obvious common sense, but hey this is a gaming forum so obviously common sense is a rarity around these parts.
 
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Have to disagree though you're right about the blood colour, I was conscious of that from the very beginning.

When you think back on moments like bashing in Theseus's head with a door, slowly sawing off Hermes' leg, savagely tearing off Helios's head (with skin stretching effect!), literally beating Hercules's face to a bloody pulp or so many other fights that are still clear as day in my mind you quickly realize that yes, SSM absolutely toned things down, it is what it is.
100% agree with this. Toned down a lot. 2018 felt so edulcorated. Much prefer GoW3 by the way. Felt memorable.
 

SlimySnake

Member
These "RT powered games" on console are just using it for reflection. All the other lighting is done without RT except for a couple games that use it for shadows. In any event none of them are using RT for "lighting" except for Metro Exodus which uses it for GI. Exodus' lighting is much more dynamic and accurate than LoU1 and 2 though. It feels "alive" as the bounce light is constantly reaching to changes in lighting conditions. There's also much better light occlusion than any of these games using old methods. Just having reflections is not going to transform the lighting to the degree that GI would. Make no mistake Sony studios are not using it because the Ps5 simply isn't capable of having RT lighting at the level of fidelity that games like Ragnarok, Last of Us 2, Ghost of Tsushima etc has. That's why some games that do have RT can only use a fraction of what full RT entails. What's weird is why Sony Firsy party games don't use RT for shadows; AO,or GI (instead of the full suite) but again it probably comes down to those techniques being more demanding that RT reflections, which can use 1/4 to 1/2 res reflections and checkerboarding.

Even if Naughty Dog could've used just one type of RT in their recent game, the overall product would've been better looking for it than without because of how much more accurate and dynamic it us is. That's why I think its disappointing that Remake doesn't at least have reflections because their SSR looks awkward and is jarring when rotating the camera. That would've been a small but tangible improvement for them on ps5.
Not using RT in their cross gen games is just bizarre seeing as how they are charging a $10 surcharge for these games. So what is next gen in these games? Loading? TLOU remake doesnt even have fast loading so wtf are they charging the $10 surcharge for? fucking haptics?

GOW doesnt seem to have any kind of RT. Forget reflections, like you said not even AO or shadows. THE most basic form of RT that even shit devs like Arkane were able to implement in deathloop. Just throw us a fucking bone especially if you are planning on charging an extra $10 bucks for it.

I can give Demon Souls and Returnal a pass for because they are pushing either higher fidelity textures or next gen particles/fog/destruction systems. I am even willing to be reasonable and give HFW a pass for not using any RT because it looks fucking incredible in other aspects. But GOW, TLOU and GT7 all look virtually identical to their previous PS4 entries. How in the fuck does GT7 still not have ray tracing during gameplay? There is a time and place to defend sony games. Yes, they still look better than 95% of games out there. Yes, sony is the only publisher actually fucking releasing AAA games this gen. Yes, sony first party is leagues ahead of everyone else in terms of cinematic storytelling and awe-inspiring setpieces (played miles again night, omg what an amazing intro) but we cannot make excuses for when they do fall behind. Thats how you allow companies, good companies and good devs, to become complacent. There is simply no need to excuse GOW here when Insomniac, BP and even GG have been able to take advantage of the PS5 hardware to make their games look substantially better than last gen versions.
 
You could be right as he's not presented with the others.

It is believed that Mímir is Odin's Uncle.
If GOW follows that, it's a possibility he will look like Mímir.

Mímir
On the basis of Hávamál 140 – where Odin learns nine magic songs from the unnamed brother of his mother Bestla – some scholars have theorized that Bestla's brother may in fact be Mímir, who would then be Odin's maternal uncle. This also means that Mimir's father would be Bölþorn.

Also, Mímir doesn't have horns like in GOW as far as I know.


Edit:
Looked up the source of that concept art and it's Dusk Golem. How credible is he with GOW leaks?
I think he's the only one has leaked GOW Ragnarok so far. And it looks believable too. Looks like early 2d concept art.



Btw this could be Odin Statue. It makes sense that the dwarves make Odin statue since he's their savior.
According to this channel:
 

Loxus

Member
I think he's the only one has leaked GOW Ragnarok so far. And it looks believable too. Looks like early 2d concept art.



Btw this could be Odin Statue. It makes sense that the dwarves make Odin statue since he's their savior.
According to this channel:
I refuse to believe any from Dusk Golem even if it's true.

On topic:
The statue could very well be Odin, but that statue looks so not final boss material.


The depiction of Odin looks more boss material.
 
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