Game of Thrones Jon Snow ( Season 7-8) vs Jamie Lannister ( both hand intact)

Jon Snow vs Jamie Lannister


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MoFuzz

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Jamie is the better swordsman, assuming both are at full strength.

Jon got them intangibles though, including a direwolf, being the people's champion and obviously resurrection, which as we all know is OP af

When it comes to incest, both are S tier.
 

Kadayi

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Team Jamie on this one. Jon Snows a decent swordsman for sure, but Jamie spent most of his youth with the likes of Barristan Selmy to train with and learn from.


When it comes to incest, both are S tier.
I don't know.. What's the worst? Sister versus Aunt?
 
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Trogdor1123

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Jon is a leader... Jamie is a fighter. No question what would happen.

Only 2 could probably beat jamie, the viper and selmy.

Selmy for sure could, viper is a maybe.
 
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daveonezero

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Man I can't wait for Sunday. That's all I can say lol.
I've prepared. In the last year my GF and I have watch all of the MCU, Star Wars animated series and then more recently GoT. Its been a trip diving into all these universes that have bee built through film. All very strong and some weak points but overall just such a great time to get content like this.
 

Jon Neu

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It's more realistic than being frosty Jesus Christ. Jamie at least did it for love, Jon only does shit because that's what his character is designed to.
Jaime it's not realistic at all, you can't go from being Patrick Bateman killing children and your family members and then become a saint because you went on a trip of 3 days with Brienne.

Jon is following the steps of his father, which is the person he admired. He is far more realistic and coherent as a character.

And Jamie is specifically written to be a better swordsman than Jon, but don't let that get in the way of your slightly erotic headcanon.
He was a better swordsman, nobody has denied that.

But Jon is the far better fighter. He literally has supernatural powers, I'm sorry if you don't know the most basic canon.

It's not about being a worse story, it's about being relatable and therefore likable. Jon was always honorable and kind and automatically good at anything he sets out to do and a gentleman and a goody-good good doer, Jamie on the other hand was an asshole and he's well on his way to be not as much of an asshole. There's a discernible growth there, not as much for Jon.
It's already obvious you haven't read the books. Jon is actually a very angry young man that lashes out with a lot of violence and resentment. He is constantly growing, just by meeting Sam he grows, just by being in the Watch he grows, when he went North of the wall with Ygritte and the wildlings, his character growed again. We are constantly seeing the evolution of a boy becoming a man (like Maester Aemon told him).

And again, his arc so far has been believable and logical. Jaime's arc isn't. Jaime just changes drastically from psycopath to saint in an instant.

Literally all the Dragon Ball villains that turned good had a far more believable transition than him. One day he was cracking jokes at killing his teenager cousin after he told him how he admired him, and the next day is basically Ghandi.

Happy life? Being manipulated by the Objectively Best Character in the Saga isn't being happy and cutting the good hand of a swordsman is fucking torture and everything that happened with him is clearly a nightmare. Theon had it harder, but come on I can't think of many characters that had to endure as much punishment as Jamie. Jon is still living it up getting warm and cozy with random thots thinking about Sam, meanwhile Jamie slowly lost everything and starts the last season as a broken man.
Manipulated by who? Jaime has done pretty much whatever he wanted all the time.

And no, Jaime, compared to almost every other important character, has had such a happy life is not even funny.

I mean I don't want to take it out, but that part of the story definitely feels less dramatic than the political intrigue. It feels like the mutants in the original Far Cry, it's like yeah this is fine but there are better things to do in that story. And I don't think getting angry and therefore having an erection thinking about a wolf is more manly than being taught how to fight using his off hand by Bronn. I would definitely watch a spinoff featuring Bronn broing it up with Jamie and Tyrion and maybe solving stupid crimes like Magnum PI, now THAT would be awesome.
Read the books, please.

Read the Forsaken chapter or the prologue of A Dance With Dragons and tell me it's less dramatic. It's actually what gives it the otherworldly terror vibes that the show hasn't been capable of translate into the screen and that makes the books much more cooler.

And again, the sheer strenght and ferocity that Jon has as a boy already surpasses that of Jaime.

Jon is a great leader and yeah he went through some shit, but he doesn't have the street cred that Jamie does as a swordsman. Give them a sword and keep out the supernatural shenanigans and there's nothing you can say to convince me Jamie wouldn't just murder him with extreme prejudice.
That's the point, Jaime doesn't have street cred. Everything he has done has been in tourneys and milking the success of his father. His latest feats outside of tourneys have been getting captured by Robb Stark men and getting cucked his psycopathy out of him by a bunch of nobodys from the Boltons.

He is constantly getting his ass kicked by unimportant minions.
 

NutJobJim

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Based on what we've seen on the show? Jon easily.

I know Jaime has this amazing reputation but what exactly have we seen him do? Fight old man Ned to a draw, get captured by Robb's men, lose a hand, fight in one serious battle and nearly die.

Jon has faced so much more and come out on top every time.
 

Miku Miku

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Based on what we've seen on the show? Jon easily.

I know Jaime has this amazing reputation but what exactly have we seen him do? Fight old man Ned to a draw, get captured by Robb's men, lose a hand, fight in one serious battle and nearly die.

Jon has faced so much more and come out on top every time.
Just because the show doesn't show it doesn't mean it never happened. There's multiple entire eras of heroes and battles not shown on the show. Ned, Robert Baratheon, Jamie, pretty much every great warrior of legend isn't shown on the show. It's from a previous time.
 

A.Romero

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Jamie would win 9 times out of 10.

I really like Jon and he has done great things. An above average swordsman indeed but Jamie is a legend.

A more interesting question is who would win in a fight between Jamie and Ned Stark. They gave it a go and they seemed to be equal...
 

NutJobJim

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Just because the show doesn't show it doesn't mean it never happened. There's multiple entire eras of heroes and battles not shown on the show. Ned, Robert Baratheon, Jamie, pretty much every great warrior of legend isn't shown on the show. It's from a previous time.
Yes that's true but I've seen the show, I haven't seen the legends of Jaime. Which in fairness is why I said 'based on what we've seen on the show'.
 

Jon Neu

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Jamie would win 9 times out of 10.

I really like Jon and he has done great things. An above average swordsman indeed but Jamie is a legend.

A more interesting question is who would win in a fight between Jamie and Ned Stark. They gave it a go and they seemed to be equal...
Jaime was supposed to become a legend, but he never did anything remarkable.

He even lost in a tourney against Loras Tyrell when Loras was just 15 and Jaime 31 fucking years old. And Oberyn already thinks that Loras is a good jouster but not so good as a warrior, which applies perfectly to Jaime too.

"Have you seen Mace Tyrell's boy? The Knight of Flowers, they call him. Now there's a son any man would be proud to own to. Last tourney, he dumped the Kingslayer on his golden rump, you ought to have seen the look on Cersei's face. I laughed till my sides hurt."
—Robert I Baratheon to Eddard Stark

Jaime is the David Beckham of Westeros: overrated as fuck.
 
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Lionel Richie

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Jaime it's not realistic at all, you can't go from being Patrick Bateman killing children and your family members and then become a saint because you went on a trip of 3 days with Brienne.

Jon is following the steps of his father, which is the person he admired. He is far more realistic and coherent as a character.
You're grossly oversimplifying Jamie's arc while pretend that Jon's steady walk from "holy savior" to "holier savior" is interesting in anyway.

He was a better swordsman, nobody has denied that.

But Jon is the far better fighter. He literally has supernatural powers, I'm sorry if you don't know the most basic canon.
I know the canon and I still think Jamie would BTFO Jon in this fight. Furries never win.

It's already obvious you haven't read the books. Jon is actually a very angry young man that lashes out with a lot of violence and resentment. He is constantly growing, just by meeting Sam he grows, just by being in the Watch he grows, when he went North of the wall with Ygritte and the wildlings, his character growed again. We are constantly seeing the evolution of a boy becoming a man (like Maester Aemon told him).

And again, his arc so far has been believable and logical. Jaime's arc isn't. Jaime just changes drastically from psycopath to saint in an instant.

Literally all the Dragon Ball villains that turned good had a far more believable transition than him. One day he was cracking jokes at killing his teenager cousin after he told him how he admired him, and the next day is basically Ghandi.
Again, you're oversimplifying what Jamie goes through and missing the point here. Jon is the hero of the story. His arc is also boring and he's a snow people loving zombie truther who may or may not be a furry. Jamie is a legendary swordsman. There's only one way this duel would realistically go: Jamie would win until random deus ex machina bullshit would get Jon to win.

Manipulated by who? Jaime has done pretty much whatever he wanted all the time.

And no, Jaime, compared to almost every other important character, has had such a happy life is not even funny.
Not sure what to tell you if you think Jamie had a happy life.

Read the books, please.

Read the Forsaken chapter or the prologue of A Dance With Dragons and tell me it's less dramatic. It's actually what gives it the otherworldly terror vibes that the show hasn't been capable of translate into the screen and that makes the books much more cooler.

And again, the sheer strenght and ferocity that Jon has as a boy already surpasses that of Jaime.
Sure thing friend. But you're taking a weirdly faux scientific approach in a shit talking discussion about 2 fictional characters. All I'm saying is that Jon is a furry and Jamie is awesome. That's all I need to tell you to prove that if there was any justice in the world, Jamie would beat him. He'd be fighting for all of us.

That's the point, Jaime doesn't have street cred. Everything he has done has been in tourneys and milking the success of his father. His latest feats outside of tourneys have been getting captured by Robb Stark men and getting cucked his psycopathy out of him by a bunch of nobodys from the Boltons.

He is constantly getting his ass kicked by unimportant minions.
That's not peak Jamie.
 

n0razi

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Jon has plot armor, he's not an elite swordsman

I would take Jamie, Brienne, or the Hound in a straight up swordfight in that order

Arya could probably ninja assassinate any of them though outside of battle
 
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A.Romero

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Jaime was supposed to become a legend, but he never did anything remarkable.

He even lost in a tourney against Loras Tyrell when Loras was just 15 and Jaime 31 fucking years old. And Oberyn already thinks that Loras is a good jouster but not so good as a warrior, which applies perfectly to Jaime too.

"Have you seen Mace Tyrell's boy? The Knight of Flowers, they call him. Now there's a son any man would be proud to own to. Last tourney, he dumped the Kingslayer on his golden rump, you ought to have seen the look on Cersei's face. I laughed till my sides hurt."
—Robert I Baratheon to Eddard Stark

Jaime is the David Beckham of Westeros: overrated as fuck.
You have a good point, however Loras is also one of the better warriors in Westeros (maybe even the best).

We've seen Jamie fighting Eddard Stark and Brienne off the top of my head. He stood his ground with both. Brienne fought with the Hound which is also one of the best warriors in Westeros so we know she is also one of the best.

We've seen Jon fighting many more opponents but legendary tier I think only the older crow which let him win. You could argue the white walker was tough and probably is (we will know more soon).

The rest of his opponents have been cannon fodder tier.
 

Jon Neu

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You're grossly oversimplifying Jamie's arc while pretend that Jon's steady walk from "holy savior" to "holier savior" is interesting in anyway.
I'm not oversimplifying, Jamie's arc is just so short and drastic.

And Jon was never the holy savior in the beggining. Again, he was an angry and confused young man that just wanted a place to belong.

I know the canon and I still think Jamie would BTFO Jon in this fight. Furries never win.
If you knew the canon you would know that Jaime is a great swordmen, but not a great fighter.

Jon not only is the most proven fighter in the entire saga, he also has supernatural powers that puts him beyond any normal men (which Jaime is).

Again, you're oversimplifying what Jamie goes through and missing the point here. Jon is the hero of the story. His arc is also boring and he's a snow people loving zombie truther who may or may not be a furry. Jamie is a legendary swordsman. There's only one way this duel would realistically go: Jamie would win until random deus ex machina bullshit would get Jon to win.
Again, Jaime is not a legendary swordman, you don't even understand his arc.

Jaime is obsessed to appear in the white book as some sort of legendary swordman, yet all he reads about him in the book is nothing legendary, he is just some guy in it that pales in comparison with the feats of basically everybody before him. And that makes him go crazy, especially now that he is just a crippled nobody.

Jamie would never win against Jon, being a good swordman is not the same as being a good fighter.

Not sure what to tell you if you think Jamie had a happy life.
Well, I just can tell you to read the books. Jaime has had one of the most happy and privileged existence of the entire Westeros.

The only thing he had to endure in the past was being called Kingslayer. That's so dramatic I almost cry everytime.

Sure thing friend. But you're taking a weirdly faux scientific approach in a shit talking discussion about 2 fictional characters. All I'm saying is that Jon is a furry and Jamie is awesome. That's all I need to tell you to prove that if there was any justice in the world, Jamie would beat him. He'd be fighting for all of us.
It's called arguing within the rules and facts of the world we are talking about. I provided a ton of facts and information that supports my case, you are just repeating silly "Jon is a furry and Jaime is awesome" as the base of your "arguments", dude.

And the world of Ice & Fire is precisely one without justice.

That's not peak Jamie.
Yeah, peak Jaime it's only in tourneys.
 

Jon Neu

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You have a good point, however Loras is also one of the better warriors in Westeros (maybe even the best).

We've seen Jamie fighting Eddard Stark and Brienne off the top of my head. He stood his ground with both. Brienne fought with the Hound which is also one of the best warriors in Westeros so we know she is also one of the best.

We've seen Jon fighting many more opponents but legendary tier I think only the older crow which let him win. You could argue the white walker was tough and probably is (we will know more soon).

The rest of his opponents have been cannon fodder tier.
Loras, as Oberyn points out, is another case of rich boy who is very good at tourneys, but not so good as a warrior.

He commands the siege of Dragonstone and the result is that, while he succeeds, he is dying from the wounds.

Neither Jaime or Loras are top tier warriors, they are good for tourneys, but not so much for the battlefield.
 

Lionel Richie

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I'm not oversimplifying, Jamie's arc is just so short and drastic.

And Jon was never the holy savior in the beggining. Again, he was an angry and confused young man that just wanted a place to belong.
Yeah just like Jesus Christ.

If you knew the canon you would know that Jaime is a great swordmen, but not a great fighter.

Jon not only is the most proven fighter in the entire saga, he also has supernatural powers that puts him beyond any normal men (which Jaime is).
What, are you trying to win it by semantics? I've been saying day one that Jamie is a better swordsman than Jon and therefore would win a sword duel. That's it. If you're a better swordsman, you're more likely to win sword duels. Don't know which other way they would fight and it doesn't matter.

Again, Jaime is not a legendary swordman, you don't even understand his arc.

Jaime is obsessed to appear in the white book as some sort of legendary swordman, yet all he reads about him in the book is nothing legendary, he is just some guy in it that pales in comparison with the feats of basically everybody before him. And that makes him go crazy, especially now that he is just a crippled nobody.

Jamie would never win against Jon, being a good swordman is not the same as being a good fighter.
They would duel by swords man, they wouldn't fight by wrestling.

Well, I just can tell you to read the books. Jaime has had one of the most happy and privileged existence of the entire Westeros.

The only thing he had to endure in the past was being called Kingslayer. That's so dramatic I almost cry everytime.
Imagine having to deal with very public consequences for your actions, not that your furry senpai knows how that goes.

It's called arguing within the rules and facts of the world we are talking about. I provided a ton of facts and information that supports my case, you are just repeating silly "Jon is a furry and Jaime is awesome" as the base of your "arguments", dude.

And the world of Ice & Fire is precisely one without justice.
It might be silly, but it's reasonably common logic. More people will root for Jamie than they would for Jon. You have this in every single media where there's one excessively good character and another one that is an asshole. It's why in the Dark Knight there were people rooting for the Joker. Or heck even in Mega Man X where everyone prefers Zero. It's just how it goes. Jon is an OP character and I have no doubt GRRM would come up with some fucking bullshit for him to win. People just wouldn't like it.
 

A.Romero

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Loras, as Oberyn points out, is another case of rich boy who is very good at tourneys, but not so good as a warrior.

He commands the siege of Dragonstone and the result is that, while he succeeds, he is dying from the wounds.

Neither Jaime or Loras are top tier warriors, they are good for tourneys, but not so much for the battlefield.
I see what you are saying and I agree but I think on duels, tourney skills are relevant.

My main reference is Ned vs Jamie's fight.

Although now that I think about it, knowing that Eddard's fight with the sword of dawn does put a cloud of doubt on Ned's skills. He is known as a great warrior in great part because of that but Bran showed us that it wasn't an entirely fair fight.
 

Jon Neu

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Yeah just like Jesus Christ.
It's funny how most of the time you don't make any sense but say things just because.

What, are you trying to win it by semantics? I've been saying day one that Jamie is a better swordsman than Jon and therefore would win a sword duel. That's it. If you're a better swordsman, you're more likely to win sword duels. Don't know which other way they would fight and it doesn't matter.
Dude, it's even in the canon. A good swordsman is not the same as a good warrior and the books tell you so pretty clearly.

Tourneys are entertainment with rules, we are talking who is the better warrior, and that is no doubt Jon. Jaime is not even on the same tier level.

By the way, you know who else beat Jaime "the legend" Lannister in a tourney in his own home? Fucking Jorah Mormont. For a legend, he sure seems to be beaten by everybody and his horse.

Jaime only won at the tourney of the wedding of Willem Frey against a -mid tier at best- knight known as Balon Swann. He lost against a 15 year old Loras, he lost against a 36 year old Jorah Mormont. He is NOT even that good at tourneys to begin with.

They would duel by swords man, they wouldn't fight by wrestling.
They wouldn't even fight. Before Jaime could even get close to Jon, he would have his throat eaten by Ghost before even realizing the beast was there.

And again, Jon has super human strength and endurance. Jaime hasn't fight someone that is skilled with the sword but also incredibly powerful and resillient. It would be like fighting the Mountain, but in this case the Mountain is skilled with the sword and fast and agile as fuck.

Imagine having to deal with very public consequences for your actions, not that your furry senpai knows how that goes.
What consequences? Everybody is scared of him and he can do as he pleases. He is just pissed because he wants to be a legend, but he is only remembered for killing an old man from his back in a treasonous act.

Jon grow into the world without having the sense of belonging. He went to the Nightwatch willingly searching for something to be attached to (remember, people try to avoid going to the Nightwatch even going as far as losing their hands instead). That's already far harder than being the son of Tywin Lannister and be called Kingslayer behind your back.

It might be silly, but it's reasonably common logic. More people will root for Jamie than they would for Jon. You have this in every single media where there's one excessively good character and another one that is an asshole. It's why in the Dark Knight there were people rooting for the Joker. Or heck even in Mega Man X where everyone prefers Zero. It's just how it goes. Jon is an OP character and I have no doubt GRRM would come up with some fucking bullshit for him to win. People just wouldn't like it.
Dude, Jaime right now is the Mother Theresa compared to Jon. He has become so good and sweet is not even funny.

And GRRM doesn't have to come with anything, his books are filled with reasons for why Jaime is not even in the same league as Jon. The fact that you choose to ignore them willingly because you have a crush on Jaime's character, doesn't change the facts.
 

Jon Neu

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Although now that I think about it, knowing that Eddard's fight with the sword of dawn does put a cloud of doubt on Ned's skills. He is known as a great warrior in great part because of that but Bran showed us that it wasn't an entirely fair fight.
And that's the point of that scene. People (especially other knights) like to tell tales about how great and legendary knights and the nobility are, but most of the time the truth is far less grandiose.

Rhaegar was supposed to be this super legendary fighter according to everybody (especially that fanboy of him called Barristan Selmy). He even won a tourney against the "best swordman that ever lived", Arthur Dayne.

And yet, he was killed by Robert in a single hit of his hammer.
 
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A.Romero

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And that's the point of that scene. People (especially other knights) like to tell tales about how great and legendary knights and the nobility are, but most of the time the truth is far less grandiose.

Rhaegar was supposed to be this super legendary swordman according to everybody (especially that fanboy of him called Barristan Selmy). He even won a tourney against the "best swordman that ever lived", Arthur Dayne.

And yet, he was killed by Robert in a single hit of his hammer.
Yes, that does put things in a different light.

I believe Jamie would beat Jon
 

Vinter

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I think peak Jamie would win everytime. In the books the more hero you are, the less safe you are. I doubt that Jon will be as Marty Sue in the books as he has been in the show. At least not as much
 
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Lionel Richie

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It's funny how most of the time you don't make any sense but say things just because.
I appreciate it, but I think I'm dead on here. Every overpowered character in fiction has followed the Jesus Christ arc, more commonly known as the hero's journey. Jon is no exception.

Dude, it's even in the canon. A good swordsman is not the same as a good warrior and the books tell you so pretty clearly.

Tourneys are entertainment with rules, we are talking who is the better warrior, and that is no doubt Jon. Jaime is not even on the same tier level.

By the way, you know who else beat Jaime "the legend" Lannister in a tourney in his own home? Fucking Jorah Mormont. For a legend, he sure seems to be beaten by everybody and his horse.

Jaime only won at the tourney of the wedding of Willem Frey against a -mid tier at best- knight known as Balon Swann. He lost against a 15 year old Loras, he lost against a 36 year old Jorah Mormont. He is NOT even that good at tourneys to begin with.
Yeah but Jorah is an absolutely based character, no shame there. Loras is a bit more iffy and even then so what, maybe dude's like an NBA team that coasts through the regular season and flips a switch for the playoffs. He'd be the underdog, the champion of the people, it's even more intense.

They wouldn't even fight. Before Jaime could even get close to Jon, he would have his throat eaten by Ghost before even realizing the beast was there.

And again, Jon has super human strength and endurance. Jaime hasn't fight someone that is skilled with the sword but also incredibly powerful and resillient. It would be like fighting the Mountain, but in this case the Mountain is skilled with the sword and fast and agile as fuck.
Maybe, maybe Ghost would be busy licking his balls. He is a dog after all. I think you're overestimating Jon quite a bit, but if we circle back on this point any harder it might create a time loop that will consume humanity lol.

What consequences? Everybody is scared of him and he can do as he pleases. He is just pissed because he wants to be a legend, but he is only remembered for killing an old man from his back in a treasonous act.

Jon grow into the world without having the sense of belonging. He went to the Nightwatch willingly searching for something to be attached to (remember, people try to avoid going to the Nightwatch even going as far as losing their hands instead). That's already far harder than being the son of Tywin Lannister and be called Kingslayer behind your back.

Dude, Jaime right now is the Mother Theresa compared to Jon. He has become so good and sweet is not even funny.

And GRRM doesn't have to come with anything, his books are filled with reasons for why Jaime is not even in the same league as Jon. The fact that you choose to ignore them willingly because you have a crush on Jaime's character, doesn't change the facts.
Listen, real talk here. It's obvious that you have any more knowledge about the lore than I do. I appreciate you taking your time to refute an argument that basically consists of "Jon Snow is a furry". But there's a reason that people tend to prefer Jamie rather than Jon despite Jon being clearly the hero (or as close to that as possible) of the story. Jon was always good, his arc is about confirmation. He joins the Nightwatch as a good guy, yes he's angry and shit but the problem is the world around him, not him. He's the hero. Jamie on the other hand is at best a fucking asshole who does clearly harmful and condemnable shit. The problem with him isn't imposed on him, it's his flaws that cause them. And he gets punished and he begins to change.

People will always tend to prefer Jamie, he's more interesting because he didn't stay bad like Cersei and he didn't start good like Jon. He's not even a villain becoming a hero, he's just a guy that doesn't fit either group. Tyrion begins as a kind of self absorbed asshole as well, but he's put into a more heroic arc. He cares. Jamie doesn't care, even know it feels like he's motivated by his sister's fucked up actions. He represents blind obedience being tested by unequivocal disappointment. And the tribulations he's put through break him. That's an interesting arc. Jon doesn't have a particularly interesting development, he's like a player created avatar in a Dark Souls or Elder Scrolls game. Yeah what happens with him is interesting, but it is because of the lore. The world around him. He doesn't have a particularly deep personality or profound inner struggle. He's as close to a blank slate as you can possibly get and there's value on that, the story doesn't happen without that. It just doesn't make for a particularly likable character.
 
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Jon Neu

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I appreciate it, but I think I'm dead on here. Every overpowered character in fiction has followed the Jesus Christ arc, more commonly known as the hero's journey. Jon is no exception.
Not only Jon isn't overpowered (that would be Bran), but also after seeing the first episode of the 8th season, I can almost confirm you that Jon is not going to follow "the Jesus Christ arc", whatever that is.

I don't want to spoil anything, but I pretty much know how this is going to end.

Yeah but Jorah is an absolutely based character, no shame there. Loras is a bit more iffy and even then so what, maybe dude's like an NBA team that coasts through the regular season and flips a switch for the playoffs. He'd be the underdog, the champion of the people, it's even more intense.
Jorah is a good warrior, yet palishes in comparison to Jon in the battlefield.

Listen, real talk here. It's obvious that you have any more knowledge about the lore than I do. I appreciate you taking your time to refute an argument that basically consists of "Jon Snow is a furry". But there's a reason that people tend to prefer Jamie rather than Jon despite Jon being clearly the hero (or as close to that as possible) of the story. Jon was always good, his arc is about confirmation. He joins the Nightwatch as a good guy, yes he's angry and shit but the problem is the world around him, not him. He's the hero. Jamie on the other hand is at best a fucking asshole who does clearly harmful and condemnable shit. The problem with him isn't imposed on him, it's his flaws that cause them. And he gets punished and he begins to change.

People will always tend to prefer Jamie, he's more interesting because he didn't stay bad like Cersei and he didn't start good like Jon. He's not even a villain becoming a hero, he's just a guy that doesn't fit either group. Tyrion begins as a kind of self absorbed asshole as well, but he's put into a more heroic arc. He cares. Jamie doesn't care, even know it feels like he's motivated by his sister's fucked up actions. He represents blind obedience being tested by unequivocal disappointment. And the tribulations he's put through break him. That's an interesting arc. Jon doesn't have a particularly interesting development, he's like a player created avatar in a Dark Souls or Elder Scrolls game. Yeah what happens with him is interesting, but it is because of the lore. The world around him. He doesn't have a particularly deep personality or profound inner struggle. He's as close to a blank slate as you can possibly get and there's value on that, the story doesn't happen without that. It just doesn't make for a particularly likable character.
I actually love Jaime. He is one of the most charismatic and loveable characters and I think he is going to have a much bigger role in the end, bringing redemption to his arc. He is going to earn the honour he always wanted.

But the beautiful thing of "A Song Of Ice & Fire" is that you have a myriad of different characters with their own unique circumstances that are interesting for different reasons. So whatever floats your boat is ok.

I just love'em all.
 
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Lionel Richie

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Not only Jon isn't overpowered (that would be Bran), but also after seeing the first episode of the 8th season, I can almost confirm you that Jon is not going to follow "the Jesus Christ arc", whatever that is.

I don't want to spoil anything, but I pretty much know how this is going to end.
Bran is a Charles Xavier clone with some Dr. Manhattan thrown in, he is ridiculously overpowered. I really hope Jon will end this on a positive note, it would make up for his by the numbers-ish role and honestly he's the only character left who is in position to actually do something sensible. But yeah, he has to break the hero's journey mold.

I actually love Jaime. He is one of the most charismatic and loveable characters and I think he is going to have a much bigger role in the end, bringing redemption to his arc. He is going to earn the honour he always wanted.

But the beautiful thing of "A Song Of Ice & Fire" is that you have a myriad of different characters with their own unique circumstances that are interesting for different reasons. So whatever floats your boat is ok.

I just love'em all.
That's very nice man, I agree. There are a lot of great characters and more than anything they all make sense together. It truly is a tremendous work of fiction and something that is becoming weirdly rare nowadays if that makes any sense where characters are created to appease a certain state of mind more than they are to provide creative value. GOT masters great dialogue more than anything and it's hard to do that when you start up by making it impossible to talk back to any number of characters.
 

Jon Neu

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I really hope Jon will end this on a positive note, it would make up for his by the numbers-ish role and honestly he's the only character left who is in position to actually do something sensible. But yeah, he has to break the hero's journey mold.


I'm going to explain what I think is going to happen at the end. Spoilers just in case.

Remember Ygritte? The first true love of Jon Snow. They loved each other so much, Jon was truly happy for the first time in his life. That beautiful and isolated cave beyond the wall was the first time Jon had a sense of belonging.



Yet when the time came, Jon was a man amongst ten thousand. His honor, his sense of duty deeply ingrained in him by his father and the admiration he felt for him, made Jon choose the Nightwatch instead of the beautiful and reckless she wildling kissed by fire.

Now, in the present, everybody is trashing the dragon ride scene. Everybody is saying that is irrelevant, but is it?


-We could live here for a thousand years and nobody would find us

Jon lost the love of his life once. He choose duty and honor over love, and he paid the price.



If he had to make the same decision again, would he still choose duty over love?

Maybe this time, he would choose to spend a thousand years with his love.

Like King & Queen in the North.
 
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Lionel Richie

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I'm going to explain what I think is going to happen at the end. Spoilers just in case.
Maybe, but there's a problem with how this would go. Daenerys had some clearly threatening words for Sansa somewhere in Episode 8, like yeah man I'm the queen and she needs to respect me or else. Then Arya had a talk with Jon saying dude don't forget we're your family. Maybe he could say fuck that noise, but a real gangster would never let someone speak like that to his family.

My theory is that he reveals to Dany that he's clearly Aegon and offers her to drop the war and get away from everything and sit on his throne, she refuses, she dies and he ends up boinking Sansa. Maybe that last part is me watching too much stepsister porn, but there was at least some sexual tension last season.
 
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Jon Neu

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Maybe, but there's a problem with how this would go. Daenerys had some clearly threatening words for Sansa somewhere in Episode 8, like yeah man I'm the queen and she needs to respect me or else. Then Arya had a talk with Jon saying dude don't forget we're your family. Maybe he could say fuck that noise, but a real gangster would never let someone speak like that to his family.
I'm sure they are going to make Dany do something that earns her the respect of Sansa and the northeners.

I think Tyrion is actually the one going to betray them. He looks stupid now, but he isn't. After talking with Sansa he has this grim face, and even Bran watches him like "I know what you are doing".

My theory is that he reveals to Dany that he's clearly Aegon and offers her to drop the war and get away from everything and sit on his throne, she refuses, she dies and he ends up boinking Sansa. Maybe that last part is me watching too much stepsister porn, but there was at least some sexual tension last season.
Maybe.

It's clear the conversation around the waterfall was foreshadowing of something. I think my theory is far more spectacular and I actually think is one of the things GRRM told D&D about the ending, but I could be wrong.
 

Lionel Richie

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I'm sure they are going to make Dany do something that earns her the respect of Sansa and the northeners.

I think Tyrion is actually the one going to betray them. He looks stupid now, but he isn't. After talking with Sansa he has this grim face, and even Bran watches him like "I know what you are doing".
Why would Tyrion betray them? He's the series master of self-preservation, he's not going to do anything stupid now. I think it's clear by now he doesn't like Jon banging Dany, there's probably a reason we don't know yet, but I doubt he's going to act treacherously.

I think Arya could try to kill Jamie and Tyrion could somehow save him. He owes one to Jamie and you know what they say about them Lannisters.
 
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Amey

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On the show, Jaime tells Brienne “there are three men in the kingdoms who might have a chance against me,” which three are being referred to?
Don't know if he was talking of men still alive.

1. Arthur Dayne who knighted Jaime. Was killed by Ned Stark.
So I guess
2. is Ned Stark.
3. Barristan Selmy.
 

Amey

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If Jaime asks for Trial by Combat next week, who'll be Danny's champion... Jon or Jorah?
And will Bronn reach Winterfell just in time to step in for Jaime ?

I have a feeling when Bronn reaches Winterfell he's gonna get skewered by the Needle in his sleep.
 

Tesseract

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yeah i think Jamie would of fucked most people up with both hands
doesn't seem like it, both brienne and ned kinda laughed off his supposed skills

i'm starting to think jon would smoke him, ramsey was a hardcore gamer and was afraid to 1v1 him ('according to some, you're the greatest swordsman who ever lived') or w/e that quote was
 
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