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Game of Thrones *NO BOOK DISCUSSION* |OT| Season 7 - [Read the OP]

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Zolo

Member
It was a nice extra. Though I thought the implication was that no one is actually fooled by Maester Pycelle's act.

They're fooled by his weak, old man act. They're not fooled into thinking he's not a bootlicker for whatever person of power.
 

Herne

Member
It was a nice extra. Though I thought the implication was that no one is actually fooled by Maester Pycelle's act.

It was pretty stupid to build up that act all along only for it to end in nothing at all. I always thought that at one point he'd be attacked and he'd surprise his attackers with his strength. Even with the children I thought he might seriously hurt or even kill one or two before going down... but no. There was nothing.
 

pringles

Member
Doing a rewatch and I'm mid season 2. I wish Maester Pycelle had fought off the kids better, shocking Qyburn when he drops the feeble old man act.
I thought about that too, but even if he is playing up the frail old-man persona he's still, well, a frail old man.

The Stark kids are all gonna gather around and take turns shanking Littlefinger repeatedly. Best 5 minutes of TV in history.
Bran: Offer me money!
Littlefinger: Yes!
Sansa: Power too, promise me that!
Littlefinger: All that I have and more!
Arya: Offer me anything I ask for!
Littlefinger: Anything you want!
All: We want our father back you son of a bitch!
 
Here's a what if. What if Dany and Sansa became a power couple at the end of it all. Both suffered through a rape at he hands of heir first and second husbands respectively (it can be argued Tyrion was never her husband in anything but name) and the show has never shied away from same sex relationships for Dany after that fact.

I could see Sansa being attracted to her as a woman as well as her brand of power.

That would bring Dany to the Iron Throne, unite the north and leave the King in the North as its warden.

That would be quite the ass pull. There's never been any indication at all that Sansa is attracted to women. Dany, sure.
 

Redhood

Member
To people saying Jaime is dead. Oh please!

Its obvious Tyrian is gonna save him. He saw him go down the lake. They are gonna reconcile now that Jaime knows that Tyrion did not kill Joffrey.
 
Genuinely don't understand people who want Jaime dead now. He's got so much of his arc left to go through and you want to kill him off now? For what? Shock value? That isn't good story telling, that's just killing for the sake of killing.

I'm happy that Jamie didn't get roasted at the end of the episode, what I would have done instead would have had Bronn instead of going into the water too when he pushed Jamie out of the way would have had him got roasted. The beginning of the episode had him complaining to Jamie after receiving gold that he was unsatisfied and wanted more I.E a castle to go from that to him giving his life/future for Jamie in that moment would have felt quite poetic to me. Maybe I'm the only one to think so but I'm still not convinced Bronn made it out of that unhurt and could very well have his entire back singed with life threatening burns at the start of next episode. (I know it would be inconsistent to have him hurt by the blast radius of the fire then when he wasn't hurt by it when he jumped out of the way when the Balista was destroyed but semantics)
Based off the Ep 5 preview it feels like Dany is only talking to a single person when she says "Bend the knee or die" and while Tyrion does have ties to both Jamie and Bronn unless they are going to let Jamie drown I don't see how it would be anyone other then Jamie with the way the preview showed Tyrions mixed emotions.
 

Nameless

Member
Jon is an idiot if he bends the knee, especially now that Dany believes him. She can't/won't ignore the White Walker threat whether he pledges fealty of not.
 
Artisan, your bit about Tyrion's idiotic comment to Dany after her asking him about Jon's claim, made me realise how stupid that whole scene was. He tells Jon he believes him, and yet when Dany asks for his opinion on it, he doesn't give her a straight answer.
yeah, it honestly just shows how much poorer the writing is without any books to go off of. this is the showrunners just trying to be clever for fans, writing dialogue they think will work but with a bar set so high with seasons based on books, they're failing. that's just one example

clearly, i could've wrote a better dialogue for that scene.
Tyrion's problem is hes playing by the old rules (thinking that the Rock had value in this war like it would have had Tywin been leading the opposition) and trying too hard to minimize damages for both strategic and selfish reasons (he was suffering a bit watching lannisters burn, even considering the current situation, and that's without even going into what would happen to Jamie.)

He's not wrong that Dany would have a harder time if her Dothraki were raping the countryside and KL was roasting, but that type of council is a little less valuable when going against someone as fucking nuts as Cersei.
Whatever rules he's playing by, either way I think Jorah if he was there, or Barristan if he was alive, could've come up with better strategies.

Dany doesn't want to sacrifice the innocents of King's Landing but they're not exactly that innocent, are they? I get that they were hungry during the war of the 5 kings but they butchered down that man who prepared the boat for Myrcella to leave. Then, they almost raped Sansa. They also cheered at seeing Ned's head chopped off. It's like Euron said, they just like severed heads.

So King's Landing's residents are fucking scumbags. Even the little children as Qyburn corrupted them into little murderers. One way or another if they have to die it wouldn't be a huge loss.
Or for not even contesting Bronn spending all goddamned day on the scorpion.
That's the one thing about that battle - how did no Dothraki on the ground see Bronn all by his lonesome operating the scorpion. Bronn had no guards around him or anything.
Which beloved Stark kid will Littlefinger kill off first? Place your bets.

It's coming.
"when the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies...but the pack survives."
Yo if Gendry comes back, Ayra can get some of dat ass finally.
if Gendry is back then he'll probably be in King's Landing. Isn't that where Davos told him to row his boat to? Arya won't get that ass till season 8.
Does the Dany and Jon scene take on a new meaning, if what Dany is trying to get Jon to do, is propose to her when she tells him to bend the knee in the cave?

"I will fight for you, I will fight for the North."

That sounds more personal than someone agreeing to send troops to fight alongside an alley. Think of it as a Queen Isabella and King Ferdinand II like situation. The coming together of the crowns of Castile and Aragon essentially starts the unification of Spain, and together they finish the process of Reconquista.

Dany left Mereen with a purpose of taking the Iron Throne. But she also left Mereen with the explicit idea that she had to make herself available for marriage in order to cement alliances. Dany is a Queen, Jon is a King; neither will accept to fully move to one person's side or the other without overtures. But marriage changes that. It won't be two separate crowns, with two competing groups of people to appease. It would instead be a single crown that represents both groups.

Now I personally think this episode shows that both Jon and Dany are warming up to each other (and the producers essentially state the same thing). But marriages have been arranged and fulfilled in Westeros with politics and dynastic reasons being the only considerations; Robb and the marriage proposal to the Freys, Roose Bolton and his marriage to Walda, Edmure and his bride, Marcella and Tristane, and every one of Sansa's marriages. Most of these marriage proposals were done without bride and groom being on speaking terms, or at times even seeing each other prior to the proposal.

So it wouldn't be too much of a stretch that a Queen looking for a suitor, that is now warming up to a mysterious Northern King, might be suggesting a marriage pact to iron out the politics of them rendering each other aid. Dany has to also think about a post WW world if they survive. Committing her dragons and her forces to fight in war that might result in her taking heavy losses, without any guarantee of support afterwards for her own cause, is politically stupid. Either Jon bends the knee and accepts her as his queen like she wanted in episode three, and now he is honour bound to fight for his queen. Or Jon marries her, and his issues become hers, and her issues become his. The latter is a brilliant way to get the North to accept her, and for Jon to commit to the Iron Throne at the same time.

Jon even gets a really weird look on his face when Dany gives him the, "isn't their survival more important than your pride" line. Watching that scene a few times, I had thought that look might be because he's realising she used his own logic on him. But before that she says, "they would if their King does." Their King does what? Bend the knee to her in a subservient role? Don't think she means that because you're back to the North being pissed. Their King marrying the "Southern ruler" and unifying their crowns? That seems more palpable right?

Bend the knee in the cave = Propose already will ya!
She wanted him to bend the knee and propose to her.

https://youtu.be/w2BEJ8VS88Y?t=3m44s
Tyrion has kind of become the Vegeta of Game of Thrones, hasn't he?
How you figure that?
 

Heshinsi

"playing" dumb? unpossible
I think she named all the dothraki to be her bloodriders.

Yep, she returns on top on top of Drogon and tells them that each Khal would pick 2 Blood Riders, but that she isn't just any old Khal, and that she has chosen all of them as her Blood Riders.

You're assuming she ordered that. Notice that the dive bombing came right after Jon said he wasn't a Stark. That's some epic Ollie saying that he's the best archer in his village type foreshadowing.

I know she didn't order it. That would be hilarious lol.

"Drogon, go welcome our guests for mommy by having them shit their pants ok?"

I was replying to the post above main that said that when Dany is ready for marriage, she'll do things a bit more persuasive than asking to bend the knee or dragon dive bombing the shit of Jon.
 

Heshinsi

"playing" dumb? unpossible
yeah, it honestly just shows how much poorer the writing is without any books to go off of. this is the showrunners just trying to be clever for fans, writing dialogue they think will work but with a bar set so high with seasons based on books, they're failing. that's just one example

clearly, i could've wrote a better dialogue for that scene.

Whatever rules he's playing by, either way I think Jorah if he was there, or Barristan if he was alive, could've come up with better strategies.

Dany doesn't want to sacrifice the innocents of King's Landing but they're not exactly that innocent, are they? I get that they were hungry during the war of the 5 kings but they butchered down that man who prepared the boat for Myrcella to leave. Then, they almost raped Sansa. They also cheered at seeing Ned's head chopped off. It's like Euron said, they just like severed heads.

So King's Landing's residents are fucking scumbags. Even the little children as Qyburn corrupted them into little murderers. One way or another if they have to die it wouldn't be a huge loss.

That's the one thing about that battle - how did no Dothraki on the ground see Bronn all by his lonesome operating the scorpion. Bronn had no guards around him or anything.

"when the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies...but the pack survives."

if Gendry is back then he'll probably be in King's Landing. Isn't that where Davos told him to row his boat to? Arya won't get that ass till season 8.

She wanted him to bend the knee and propose to her.

https://youtu.be/w2BEJ8VS88Y?t=3m44s
How you figure that?

Regardless of what some amongst the mob do, the common people don't deserve that level of firepower and destruction brought upon their heads.

Now, Tywin Lannister did orchestrate the brutal sacking, pillaging, and raping of KL, and he did it in the name of Robert Baratheon. So it is incredibly rich of Cersei to drum up fear of Dany, when her own family committed horrific crimes on the citizenry of the very city she rules (and that's not even getting to what she did). But considering that they never talk about any consequences for Robert for what Tywin did, had Dany done what all her advisors (save Tyrion) wanted to do during their war counsel, I don't think the damage to her image would have been lasting. They would have just blamed Cersei for it, and it seems like people would buy it.

Yeah, but that video is still just as hypothetical as my post. I just think that her saying, "fight for you, fight for the North" indicates that she means a more personal connection with both.
 
Do you think folk are clamouring to see more of Ellaria and Tyene?

They're done.
what about Dorne, though? Was the Dornish army decimated along with the Greyjoy fleet or are they all still in Dorne waiting for a fight?
Regardless of what some amongst the mob do, the common people don't deserve that level of firepower and destruction brought upon their heads.

Now, Tywin Lannister did orchestrate the brutal sacking, pillaging, and raping of KL, and he did it in the name of Robert Baratheon. So it is incredibly rich of Cersei to drum up fear of Dany, when her own family committed horrific crimes on the citizenry of the very city she rules (and that's not even getting to what she did). But considering that they never talk about any consequences for Robert for what Tywin did, had Dany done what all her advisors (save Tyrion) wanted to do during their war counsel, I don't think the damage to her image would have been lasting. They would have just blamed Cersei for it, and it seems like people would buy it.

Yeah, but that video is still just as hypothetical as my post. I just think that her saying, "fight for you, fight for the North" indicates that she means a more personal connection with both.
Perhaps Dany has been subconsciously wanting to marry him ever since she said "You know I'm not going to let Cersei stay on the iron throne, and I haven't changed my mind about which kingdoms belong to the throne.." she wants him to work with her.
 

Heshinsi

"playing" dumb? unpossible
what about Dorne, though? Was the Dornish army decimated along with the Greyjoy fleet or are they all still in Dorne waiting for a fight?

Dorne's army is still standing around with that mean look on their faces they had while watching their Prince be murdered. There's also 5 other Sand Snakes doing god knows what lol.
 
No you fucking couldn't.
so you think that this:
"I very much would like to believe he's wrong, but a wise man once said, you should never believe something simply because you want to believe it."
is a better choice of dialogue than this:
"I knew Jeor Mormont - Jorah's father. He saw these things, and I didn't want to believe him either. And now Jon is saying it too, and I trust the eyes of an honest man etc.."
? because if you do, then I don't care what you think. My dialogue is better than the real one and your opinion is invalid
Sssshhhh. Forget that now.
https://youtu.be/hnUo9xIBHlQ?t=4m6s
Jon coming back from the dead is much bigger than Ellaria having any more relevance tho
Of course it is but my point's simply that he had to hide it, wasn't allowed to indicate the truth. But I get what you're saying, most likely Elaria is gone and that's fine because she sucked, but overall the whole Dornish plot could've been written much, much better starting seasons ago.
Dorne's army is standing around with that mean look on their faces they had while watching their Prince be murdered. There's also 5 other Sand Snakes doing god knows what lol.
Those sandsnakes though I'm guessing, are not warriors. Because of how poorly Dorne was handled I would venture to say they will ignore Dorne for the rest of the whole story but even that is a poor handling of it and just goes to show how bad they are at writing sometimes.
 

Kadayi

Banned
Do you think folk are clamouring to see more of Ellaria and Tyene?.

Kings Landing is going to fall at some point. Assuming that Cersei sticks to her word, Ellaria isn't going to be killed, so it's not out of the realm of probability that she will be rescued from the cells, it just might not happen this season is all.
 
so you think that this: is a better choice of dialogue than this:? because if you do, then I don't care what you think. My dialogue is better than the real one and your opinion is invalid

https://youtu.be/hnUo9xIBHlQ?t=4m6s

Of course it is but my point's simply that he had to hide it, wasn't allowed to indicate the truth. But I get what you're saying, most likely Elaria is gone and that's fine because she sucked, but overall the whole Dornish plot could've been written much, much better starting seasons ago.
Those sandsnakes though I'm guessing, are not warriors. Because of how poorly Dorne was handled I would venture to say they will ignore Dorne for the rest of the whole story but even that is a poor handling of it and just goes to show how bad they are at writing sometimes.
Those arent your words your basing it off a something Tyrion said to Jon, you can say it was poorly written but unless you have something totally original to add, thats not you writing a better scene. In fact your version is him just saying the same thing twice in back to back scenes.
 
Kings Landing is going to fall at some point. Assuming that Cersei sticks to her word, Ellaria isn't going to be killed, so it's not out of the realm of probability that she will be rescued from the cells, it just might not happen this season is all.
She doesn't deserve rescuing, though. Neither does her daughter.
Those arent your words your basing it off a something Tyrion said to Jon, you can say it was poorly written but unless you have something totally original to add, thats not you writing a better scene. In fact your version is him just saying the same thing twice in back to back scenes.
first of all they are my words because they are not the words Tyrion said to Dany i.e if I were the scriptwriter, that's the dialogue I would've put for that scene and second of all yes it would be Tyrion saying the same thing twice and why shouldn't he do that? Dany loved and respected Jorah, wouldn't hearing the thoughts of Jorah's father mean something to her?

And you also didn't answer my question. You really think Tyrion saying one of his jackass lines is better than him saying the same thing to Jon, and then Dany?

I will concede that my response to you was arrogant, I'll give you that, but it's hard for me to accept the dialogue this season. I thought that was something most of us can agree on this season that several times the dialogue has been weak.
 
She doesn't deserve rescuing, though. Neither does her daughter.
first of all they are my words because they are not the words Tyrion said to Dany i.e if I were the scriptwriter, that's the dialogue I would've put for that scene and second of all it would be Tyrion saying the same thing and why shouldn't he do that? Dany loved and respected Jorah, wouldn't hearing the thoughts of Jorah's father mean something to her?

And you also didn't answer my question. You really think Tyrion saying one of his jackass lines is better than him saying the same thing to Jon, and then Dany?

I will concede that my response to you was arrogant, I'll give you that, but it's hard for me to accept the dialogue this season. I thought that was something most of us can agree on this season that several times the dialogue has been weak.

You cant have him say the exact same lines in back to back scenes. And they arent your words because they are not originally thought of by you. You were reapiting what was written for Tyrion in a previous scene. Just because you moved them from one scene to another doesn't give you authorship.
 
You cant have him say the exact same lines in back to back scenes. And they arent your words because they are not originally thought of by you. You were reapiting what was written for Tyrion in a previous scene. Just because you moved them from one scene to another doesn't give you authorship.
Again, if I was the one writing the dialogue then that's what I would've wrote for Tyrion to say so yes, they are my words. The scriptwriter didn't think to put that in the dialogue with Tyrion and Dany, but I did. And again, why would it be so bad for Tyrion to say the same thing twice? As I said, it should relevant to her because Tyrion is telling her what Jorah's father wanted.

I'll ask you for the third time now: You think the actual dialogue was better?
 
Kings Landing is going to fall at some point. Assuming that Cersei sticks to her word, Ellaria isn't going to be killed, so it's not out of the realm of probability that she will be rescued from the cells, it just might not happen this season is all.

I hope Ellaria dies. She's a backstabbing cunt!! Sorry, the Hound is rubbing off on me.

She killed an innocent girl to send a message.

She got what she deserved. I do feel bad for Theme though.
 
Again, if I was the one writing the dialogue then that's what I would've wrote for Tyrion to say so yes, they are my words. The scriptwriter didn't think to put that in the dialogue with Tyrion and Dany, but I did. And again, why would it be so bad for Tyrion to say the same thing twice? As I said, it should relevant to her because Tyrion is telling her what Jorah's father wanted.

I'll ask you for the third time now: You think the actual dialogue was better?

Then doing what you are proposing, yes.

But again they are not your words if you are reusing dialog that was already written.

Thats the whole point of me saying you couldn't have written it better, because you are not writing any original dialog. You are copy and pasteing something they already wrote. There is no original composition so you cant claim that you wrote it.

Thats like taking two paragraphs out of a novel, switching the order then claiming you wrote the two paragraphs.
 
Dorne's army is still standing around with that mean look on their faces they had while watching their Prince be murdered. There's also 5 other Sand Snakes doing god knows what lol.

The show actually did explain that the pro-war faction in Dorne was sick of Doran to explain the lack of reaction to his assassination. And the other Sand Snakes are too young to do any kind of fighting/leading (even ignoring that the meta/out-of-universe reasons for dropping the Dornish story). Most likely they'll just reference a civil war/internal troubles with Ellaria not there and/or the fact she's essentially a hostage.

Given the limited number of episodes left in the show and what's left to go over (and with the Lannister forces being largely pushed back into King's Landing itself, so the Dornish are likely not really needed except if you include them in the background of siege scenes or something), I think that's about all we'll see.
 
Then doing what you are proposing, yes.

But again they are not your words if you are reusing dialog that was already written.

Thats the whole point of me saying you couldn't have written it better, because you are not writing any original dialog. You are copy and pasteing something they already wrote. There is no original composition so you cant claim that you wrote it.

Thats like taking two paragraphs out of a novel, switching the order then claiming you wrote the two paragraphs.
Whether or not Tyrion mentioned Jeor to Jon, I still would've brought Jeor up to Dany. I'm not trying to be original, I'm trying to be practical.

It seems to me that your point is really just to have a "I'm right, you're wrong, so deal with it" conversation with me. The scriptwriter had Tyrion state a jackass line to Dany when she asked him about the winter war. That's what they wrote. If I wrote it, I would've had Tyrion bring up Jeor. Therefore, they are my choice of words and not the scriptwriter.

Both Jon and Dany have a bond to Mormonts so it is sensible for Tyrion to bring the Mormonts up to both of them in his own ways. If you think Tyrion's jackass line was better, then there's really nothing else to be said here. We disagree, so we should move on.
 
The show actually did explain that the pro-war faction in Dorne was sick of Doran to explain the lack of reaction to his assassination. And the other Sand Snakes are too young to do any kind of fighting/leading (even ignoring that the meta/out-of-universe reasons for dropping the Dornish story). Most likely they'll just reference a civil war/internal troubles with Ellaria not there and/or the fact she's essentially a hostage.

Given the limited number of episodes left in the show and what's left to go over (and with the Lannister forces being largely pushed back into King's Landing itself, so the Dornish are likely not really needed except if you include them in the background of siege scenes or something), I think that's about all we'll see.

They really need to be brought forth to fight the Night King.
 
They really need to be brought forth to fight the Night King.
This might be asking for too much and I asked the same thing as a kid when watching LOTR: couldn't Jon or Davos think of traveling even further south, past Westeros and land in Sothoryos and try to recruit soldiers from there? I understand that's a stretch but there's way more to the planet than the world that Jon knows.
 
Same guy is directing this episode, so it would be nice to see both sides directed by him.

one thing though i heard that the name of the episode originally was called "blood of the dragon" and it got changed to "eastwatch" last minute? if that's true it might be more of a fiery episode after all.
 
What is going on in this thread? Half of the posts on this page are hidden from me because of my ignore list lol

Anyway, can't wait to see Shankman pt. 2. I loved his direction last ep.
 
just went back and rewatched Sallador Saan's scenes on YouTube

underused character but he's very entertaining in all the scenes he's in...it would be awesome if Davos could recruit him again but it'd come off as kinda fan servicey
 

Einchy

semen stains the mountaintops
What is going on in this thread? Half of the posts on this page are hidden from me because of my ignore list lol

Anyway, can't wait to see Shankman pt. 2. I loved his direction last ep.

I'm hoping that it's another big episode because it feels weird to have him back to back if it'll be a small one, also, it would mean that the last 2 would also be huge ones.
 

Heshinsi

"playing" dumb? unpossible
I'm hoping that it's another big episode because it feels weird to have him back to back if it'll be a small one, also, it would mean that the last 2 would also be huge ones.

According to this Vanity Fair article, here's the breakdown for the episode lenths:

Episode 1: 59 minutes.
Episode 2: 59 minutes.
Episode 3: 63 minutes.
Episode 4: 50 minutes.
Episode 5: 59 minutes.
Episode 6: 71 minutes.
Episode 7: 81 minutes.

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywoo...es-season-7-episode-length-super-sized-finale
 
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