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Gameplay structure in Final Fantasy VII Remake sucks!

RCU005

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I'm currently playing FF7 Remake and I can say I love the game overall. However, this is the second time I'm playing it starting from scratch. Maybe the first time around, since you don't know anything about it, it doesn't feel as bad, but having played it already it shows how flawed the gameplay structure is.

The combat mechanics are amazing. If Part 2 is going to be open world, I'm wondering how they will implement this combat into it. This seems to work better in linear progression, but I digress.

The gameplay in this game sucks! I'm currently in Chapter 8 and I still don't have anything! In RPG terms, I'd still be in the first 30 minutes. There hasn't been many fights to level up materia and it level-ups very slow. I hate that this game gets better once you play it a second or a third time, but it is linear, it's like playing an Uncharted game. There is no value to play a second time. It's not like in RPGs or open world games where you can do so many things after you finish it. Yes, you can do things after finishing it, but it's in an odd way since it's linear so you like have to play the story again.

In Uncharted games for example, you only need to shoot, so every time you enter combat, you can enjoy it as is. The way the gameplay is designed in the remake, it's for a game that's open world and you can defeat enemies freely. It's weird because the combat itself works better in linearity, since it's real time, but the level up progression is meant for an open world game.

Like I said, playing it the first time, doesn't feel as bad because you don't know the game. Playing it the second time for scratch, it feels SO restricted about what you can do even after half of the game.

Also, the game has so many forced-walking moments and those loading animations that makes it so slow. This game is so weird to play from 0 when you know it. For example, I recently played God of War (2018) from 0, as well as Horizon Zero Dawn. Those games let you go faster when you know where to go and what to do. This game doesn't, so it feels restricted and slow.

I believe this game is still a masterpiece, but it does feel like those movies where once you watch it once, the twist doesn't work the second time (like Sixth Sense maybe?)

I'll still keep playing it, and platinum the game on PS5 (if I ever get to defeat those simulation bosses) and I'm so excited as to where the Part 2 will be. Hopefully there's not much time for an announcement.
 

Whitecrow

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Honestly... FF7:R is not that great.

Yes, it looks fantastic and the soundtrack is great too. But besides that, there writing is garbage.
They wanted to make a 30 hours adventure out of the first 6 hours of the original and the execution is very bad.

Useless and unimaginative side quests that add 0 to the story, entire worthless filler sections which ruins the pace instead of character development related misions, plot holes...
The game if far from a masterpiece since one of the main elements of a story driven game is actually awful.

The coat of paint and the combat saves it but, it could have been done so much better.
 

Pietanic

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I picked this up a while ago and the battle system is absolutely great but the walking parts and waifu simulator aspects are offputting. I have no regrets playing it though. Can’t imagine I’ll go back for the platinum though.
 
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emivita

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Personally, I didn't like the hybrid combat system. Switching between action and turn-based mode was disrupting especially in later sections where things go hectic and dumb companion's IA didn't help. I think Classic mode is the best way to enjoy the game, just focus on command selection and enjoy watching the combat scenes. "Action" mode isn't worth it anyway.
 
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SkylineRKR

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All in all I consider FFVII R a very shallow and soulless game, that simply has the combat going for it.

I really like the combat, but there are too many restrictions at the beginning. You barely get slots and stuff like the block materia are mandatory, always taking up a slot. If you want the AI to heal you, this also costs a slot though this is absolutely not needed. Even post-game I feel you don't have enough even though you can easily dominate everything on hard mode with some setups. The game is more fun in new game plus as you have full setups and you can skip awful on rail sections. I love how challenging the combat is at first, but you have no knowledge and likely have to restart some battles to change setups or worse to steal a special item or learn an E skill and you want to ditch Assess after scanning. This should be possible mid battle, its 2021.

As for the game itself, its very soulless. Everything from the menus to the overall atmosphere. The game is a looker, though not always lol, but there is nothing underneath. I beat Tales of Arise last week and it has so much more charm even though its clearly been made on a tighter budget and everything.

Level design of that game isn't anything special, but its more vertical and more immersive than VII R by a landslide. In VII R there is barely a way to stray from the branching path since everything is laid out like a tube as per FFXIII, and there is barely any interaction with the world. Plus, lots and lots of crouch and forced walking scenes. It makes replays very jarring. As for the original FF comparisons, we have to see. I think the next game is going to have the same level design, with those tubes connecting cities, or they simply reduce travel to cutscenes (intermission hints at this). I don't think we'll suddenly get a more open game. Its also not how these designers roll. The DLC level design is pretty much identical as well, there is some more mechanics with Yuffie herself since she can throw shurikens at levers etc but its nothing shocking. The DLC is not worth it, I think there is one new area in it and its story is completely useless. Yuffies battle mechanics are excellent though, she can perfect block and perfect evade which even hands out ATB on success. Shes probably the most fun of all yet.
 
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Lethal01

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I'm currently playing FF7 Remake and I can say I love the game overall. However, this is the second time I'm playing it starting from scratch. Maybe the first time around, since you don't know anything about it, it doesn't feel as bad, but having played it already it shows how flawed the gameplay structure is.

The combat mechanics are amazing. If Part 2 is going to be open world, I'm wondering how they will implement this combat into it. This seems to work better in linear progression, but I digress.

The gameplay in this game sucks! I'm currently in Chapter 8 and I still don't have anything! In RPG terms, I'd still be in the first 30 minutes. There hasn't been many fights to level up materia and it level-ups very slow. I hate that this game gets better once you play it a second or a third time, but it is linear, it's like playing an Uncharted game. There is no value to play a second time. It's not like in RPGs or open world games where you can do so many things after you finish it. Yes, you can do things after finishing it, but it's in an odd way since it's linear so you like have to play the story again.

In Uncharted games for example, you only need to shoot, so every time you enter combat, you can enjoy it as is. The way the gameplay is designed in the remake, it's for a game that's open world and you can defeat enemies freely. It's weird because the combat itself works better in linearity, since it's real time, but the level up progression is meant for an open world game.

Like I said, playing it the first time, doesn't feel as bad because you don't know the game. Playing it the second time for scratch, it feels SO restricted about what you can do even after half of the game.

Also, the game has so many forced-walking moments and those loading animations that makes it so slow. This game is so weird to play from 0 when you know it. For example, I recently played God of War (2018) from 0, as well as Horizon Zero Dawn. Those games let you go faster when you know where to go and what to do. This game doesn't, so it feels restricted and slow.

I believe this game is still a masterpiece, but it does feel like those movies where once you watch it once, the twist doesn't work the second time (like Sixth Sense maybe?)

I'll still keep playing it, and platinum the game on PS5 (if I ever get to defeat those simulation bosses) and I'm so excited as to where the Part 2 will be. Hopefully there's not much time for an announcement.

I agree on there being some issues with replays, like the forced walking but totally disagree on it not being fun to play from a fresh start when it comes to the actual combat. I also think the unlockable hard mode is a good motivation for replaying as well as seeing the alternative choices you can make.

Even with just Focus strike and Braver the combat is immediately fun, Even the first boss feels great to fight.
 

Xeaker

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The first part is way too long for what the story offers.
If all parts are out and you want to replay the whole game, who wants to sit through 30 hours Midgar?!
If I just think of all the pointless stretching content I get sick.
 

Perfo

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They wasted the chance of making something daring instead of a 1:1 copy of the original but it's still the Final Fantasy with the best Battle System around. That shit is perfection! Finished it 3 times already and it's incredible how much faster I destroyed enemies with the last playthrough, it really goes down to micromanaging everything instead of relying on stats and levels. Fantastic.

But... I wanted an open world city a la cyberpunk. Midgar is so beautiful is a shame not being able to explore it properly. Well I guess now we will never ever have that chance ahah
 

Griffon

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They had that one chance to make an amazing and memorable remake, but instead they go for the greedy episode nonsense, with weird shitty scenario twists, and subversing expectations in the most retarded way. Just to sell us the game in a millions pieces that are beyond recognition.

They fucked up.
 
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FingerBang

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I hated it the first time I played it. I'm a huge fan of Final Fantasy, played most of them. As a matter of fact, even today they're the only RPG I can still play and feel hooked from the beginning. I poured 70 hours in 9 days when Final Fantasy XV came out, and I'm an adult with a full time job.
Final Fantasy VII Remake is terrible. The only thing that redeems it is the combat system, but everything else pretty much sucks. The story, the pacing, the characters, everything. But mostly, the constant fucking padding everywhere. There's so much fluff in this game to make up for the fact it's just the beginning of a much longer story.
The only good parts of the game are those that come from the original. Unfortunately, it's less than 20%.
Nomura should not be allowed to direct games anymore, that's how much I hate it.
 
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MagnesG

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I've been saying these since the start, it hava the qualities of devs not playing their own games from start to end since only battle systems are tweaked with care. A slog to play after enjoying the combat for a few hours, padded with pretty graphics at best.
 

Alphagear

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Well the remake is basically just the Midgar section of the original.

Maybe if you played the original you would know that was linear too.
 
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SkylineRKR

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Midgar has always been linear and I’m fine with that. The world opening up after you leave it was amazing. Also, it’s constrained by the tech so it’s reasonable.

Yeah, for about 5 hours.

The problem with the remake is that they stretched the Midgar chapter out to a 30+ hours affair. And I have little faith in the sequels being radically different. Midgar layout will simply be replaced by the mines etc. I don't expect much of a difference.
 

Winter™

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Liked it but not exactly what I expected. Still thinking the original is unreachable.
 

Allandor

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Well, yes, it really sucks at times.
E.g. the massage scene .. why? This whole scene does just not make any sense.

But what was really bad about that game, they really tried hard to tell a known story and try to change it, so they can make whatever they want in part 2. This won't get a proper remake as they now changed everything so they won't need to retell the known story. I guess the next part will be as linear as the current one.

Yes I know, a proper remake might just not fit into the current times. For me, a proper remake would be something like they have done with Secret of Mana.
This will just end in something like FF X-2, XIII-2, XIII-3, .... and I really don't like those entries.
 

TheContact

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i've beaten the original ff7 around 10 times and i got half way through 7R and gave up. It's not a bad game per se, but it just didn't hook me. And they're doing weird shit to the story which can be seen as good or bad, but to me I just don't care
 
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Saw this thread this morning but didn't wanna be the first reply.

Saying FF VII R is a masterpiece but then outright disliking parts of it and full well knowing it has problems is some extreme version of Stockholm Syndrome.

30 hours in Midgar was trash but that Yuffie DLC was tight.
 

Notabueno

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The whole remake sucks major asses except some music\graphic elements.

It's funny I would say the opposite (although I haven't play it all through): the game design is itself well modernised, but the music and graphic takes are disgusting compared to the original, and understanbly since remaking those aspect while staying true to the original is one of the hardest exercise in game creative and design direction.
 
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RafterXL

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The entire game kinda sucks. It gets away with it because most of us have an extreme form of nostalgia for the content and characters, but it's literally a 5 hour game they stretched into 40 so they could turn it into a trilogy. Honestly, I would have much rather had a faithful recreation of the original with updated graphics than whatever this abomination will eventually turn out to be.
 

GymWolf

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It's funny I would say the opposite (although I haven't play it all through): the game design is itself well modernised, but the music and graphic takes are disgusting compared to the original, and understanbly since remaking those aspect while staying true to the original is one of the hardest exercise in game creative and design direction.
I think it's pretty impossible to modernize chibi low poly models without losing some of the magic, i personally liked the design of almost all the characters except for sephirot, they were not super realistic like a tlou2, they were still a bit stylized.

The new music was hit and miss, that's why i say SOME elements.
 
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Danjin44

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I enjoyed my time with the game but as action RPG, Tales of Arise is simply much better, I hope one day SE willing to do proper turn based RPG with mainline FF.
 
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SpokkX

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I'm currently playing FF7 Remake and I can say I love the game overall. However, this is the second time I'm playing it starting from scratch. Maybe the first time around, since you don't know anything about it, it doesn't feel as bad, but having played it already it shows how flawed the gameplay structure is.

The combat mechanics are amazing. If Part 2 is going to be open world, I'm wondering how they will implement this combat into it. This seems to work better in linear progression, but I digress.

The gameplay in this game sucks! I'm currently in Chapter 8 and I still don't have anything! In RPG terms, I'd still be in the first 30 minutes. There hasn't been many fights to level up materia and it level-ups very slow. I hate that this game gets better once you play it a second or a third time, but it is linear, it's like playing an Uncharted game. There is no value to play a second time. It's not like in RPGs or open world games where you can do so many things after you finish it. Yes, you can do things after finishing it, but it's in an odd way since it's linear so you like have to play the story again.

In Uncharted games for example, you only need to shoot, so every time you enter combat, you can enjoy it as is. The way the gameplay is designed in the remake, it's for a game that's open world and you can defeat enemies freely. It's weird because the combat itself works better in linearity, since it's real time, but the level up progression is meant for an open world game.

Like I said, playing it the first time, doesn't feel as bad because you don't know the game. Playing it the second time for scratch, it feels SO restricted about what you can do even after half of the game.

Also, the game has so many forced-walking moments and those loading animations that makes it so slow. This game is so weird to play from 0 when you know it. For example, I recently played God of War (2018) from 0, as well as Horizon Zero Dawn. Those games let you go faster when you know where to go and what to do. This game doesn't, so it feels restricted and slow.

I believe this game is still a masterpiece, but it does feel like those movies where once you watch it once, the twist doesn't work the second time (like Sixth Sense maybe?)

I'll still keep playing it, and platinum the game on PS5 (if I ever get to defeat those simulation bosses) and I'm so excited as to where the Part 2 will be. Hopefully there's not much time for an announcement.
I was disappointed first run through (linear boring rpg)

i HATED it the second time.. it is a pain to play with all forced slow walking and loading crawling/squeezing animation

ugh - should not have tried it again. Actually regret this
 

wtftad

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Jackie Chan Insult GIF by Warner Archive


FF7R WAS GREAT!!!
"Back in my day...."

I put around 300 hours into FF7 when it was released and I was in college....FF7R is already faR superior and we are just leaving MidgaR.
Sure...I am old and out of touch probably...but FF7R was a great way for me to revisit FF7 without all the BS.

Yuffie DLC was fun and I have high hopes for the next 3 games (or however many it ends up being).
 
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iQuasarLV

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I did not even get through the first play through. I even got it for free with PS+ and could not finish it. All those points OP makes and others, they are all spot on.

X: Cash grab
X: Soulless
X: Shallow
X: Bloated
X: Technologically flawed

The only thing they thought was we would be wow'd by the flashy combat and updated visuals to excuse the pure failures in everything else. By the way I made it to Aerith's home and did all the stupid side quest shit before I shelved it. I want my time back.
 

Dream-Knife

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I feel like I'm the only one who hates the combat. Worthless basic attacks to charge up a bar to do real damage, and your teammates bars never charge up without you controlling them. Then you go into a turn based attack menu.

I enjoyed the original, but I hated FF7R. The story was interesting though. I'll watch the movie on YouTube when they all finally come out.
 
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Danjin44

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I feel like I'm the only one who hates the combat. Worthless basic attacks to charge up a bar to do real damage, and your teammates bars never charge up without you controlling them. Then you go into a turn based attack menu.

I enjoyed the original, but I hated FF7R. The story was interesting though. I'll watch the movie on YouTube when they all finally come out.
I don't hate the combat as much as you do but I kind of agree with you, SE still trying to be both action and turn based RPG and in my opinion it just not working out. In FF7R you don't have the same control as turn based and at same time dodging, blocking and arial combat doesn't feel good like proper action RPG, they basically stuck between the the two.
 

mortal

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I have mixed feelings on FF VII Remake in general. The mechanics of exploring the maps are not all that enjoyable. Very clunky movement + poor map design. Game do not reward your curiosity and desire to wander outside of quests.
Too many fake buildings in the slums, not only does it break the immersion of it being a convincingly lived-in space, it dampens the desire to explore outside of side quests.
The residents of Midgar have no charm whatsoever. Why is everyone dressed so trendy like it's 2010's?
The lack of animation in NPCs doesn't help to alleviate that, especially with those dead eyes. All in all, pretty uninspired and lifeless consider how awesome the settings are.
I'd like to extend some of that criticism to the art direction and its influence on the overall tone in Remake.

In humble opinion, I'm convinced going with a hyper-realistic aesthetic was the wrong way to go. That isn't to say the game has ugly visuals, far from it, but it removed FFVII's very distinctive aesthetic which also lead to certain aspects not translating as well in a more realistic art direction.
I'd imagine it's Nomura's obsession with Advent Children's incarnation that influenced that creative decision.

There's also a lack of expression and movement when characters are emoting in scenes. Had the team adhere to super-stylized, anime-inspired roots, I think they could've gotten away with more exaggerated, elastic expressions.
The limited detail and stylized proportions made the character and enemy designs more iconic. Although I can appreciate the details in Remake for the skill, the essence is lost somewhat in certain redesigns.
Square has been doing this to a lot of their catalog with the exception of Dragon Quest, which is quintessentially Akira Toriyama.

1997 Nomura > 2020 Nomura








 
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Notabueno

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I think it's pretty impossible to modernize chibi low poly models without losing some of the magic, i personally liked the design of almost all the characters except for sephirot, they were not super realistic like a tlou2, they were still a bit stylized.

The new music was hit and miss, that's why i say SOME elements.

Oh even there's one thing they did about right it's the character design (save for Aerith's face obviously), although a bit too bland.

Rather i'm talking about the music, the scenery, the set dressing, the light and texture colors especially, it just look all very monotone and not as rich and colorful as it should have been compared to the original.
 
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SkylineRKR

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FFVII R could've dialed down on the playable character models and camera. It could've been like a better looking FFXII with a world map or such fields or something. That way, they could do the entire game, and update the combat from the original to something more modern. I fully understand them wanting to make the combat real time. I think they always envisioned this but the tech wasn't there. Especially after using Cloud and co in Dissidia etc I couldn't imagine FFVII R would feature static battles again.

I wouldn't have issues with the way they designed the game if Midgar was meaty like the hub city of Deus Ex MD or something, actually explorable with some meaningful side stories in there as the side quests in FFVII are almost nothing but shit tier also.

I think the second game might have potential as they likely spend a chapter or so on the flashback, I figure you'll control Sephiroth there. But it might be another completely linear and boring path spending hours just to prep for the Zolom etc. It depends on how far they want to go with this one. Who knows part 1 will be their Shenmue 1, with the sequel having better pacing.
 
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Roxkis_ii

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After thinking about it and letting the nostalgia wear off, FF7:Rm is pretty mid. My personal issue with the game is the hub>quests>dungeon structure of the game. I also dont remember getting much enjoyment out the the quest

If I remember correctly, midgar was like the prologue section of the original game, so Im wonder if they were just trying to keep it simple to just get the game out this decade.

Regardless, I think I agree with the general consensus of this thread
 

Fbh

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I really enjoyed the game but mostly due to what I find to be one of the most fun combat systems in the franchise and one of the better real time combat systems in JRPG's. Loved how they managed to make the entire party feel playable in a single combat. The music was also great and the visuals are truly amazing at times though they can be very inconsistent (like those Ps3 era NPC's, N64 era doors and midgar.jpg backgrounds on Ps4).

Content wise it could have been way better though. The pacing is just too slow and a lot of the side content is bland.
You can also really tell they had to make a ton of sacrifices to get those nice visuals to run decently on Ps4. The entire world design reminded me of the PSP era with stuff like Monster Hunter or MGS Peace Walker, where they could push some really nice visuals for the hardware but had to shrink it all down to small interconnected areas, except instead of a loading screen in FF7R you get a forced walking section or a "slowly walking over plank" or a "slowly squeezing through a tight space" sequence every 5 minutes.

For the sequel I hope that instead of improving the graphics they focus on making the visuals more consistent and having bigger and more seamless playable areas.
 
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Neff

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I loved it but my biggest issue with it -which seems ever more glaring every time I come back to it- is that there's barely any decision-making on the part of the player outside of battle flow, Materia setups and side missions, and even then things are fairly limited. There are many, many different ways to play the original FF7, but there's basically only one way to play the remake. You can't explore without the game's permission, you're frequently denied seemingly accessible areas by the plot. You're constantly pushed forward on this linear path. Each character's role in battle is so uniquely strong and important that you're rarely encouraged to try anything different with them. There's not a lot of Materia types, so customisation doesn't let you get particularly creative. Buffs and debuffs are relevant, but always straightforward and obvious. It feels like everybody's experience with the remake has gone pretty much the same way, whereas every player had a different story to tell back in 1997.

What it does well it does incredibly well, I just wish there was more of the original's freedom and abundantly rich versatility.

In humble opinion, I'm convinced going with a hyper-realistic aesthetic was the wrong way to go.

There's times when it works and times when it unfortunately doesn't.

 
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Urban

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I just don’t understand the fighting system. It’s overloaded for me. Every second something happens and I just don’t know if I should command my party or just smack the enemies.
I personally hate real time party watching. It feels like a guarding mission in a video game and that’s the worst missions imo .

i just want to have fun and not juggle between them to watch if they are at good hp or if their specials are ready. Why can’t give them commands like their fighting style (in DQ for example)?


it’s always like this: Damn it feels good to swing the sword and smack the enemy’s… wait hold up I need to switch with L2 to the next character to give him a command . Ah now I can fight again. One attack later: wait the next one is ready.

Let me play rhe game
 

BlackTron

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I haven't played this yet but back in the day I was an OOT man. So I'll just be waiting for Nintendo to release OCARINA OF TIME: REMAKE that takes the first section with Young Link and make a 30 hour game out of it.

Actually nah, I'll stick to the old version....you should probably do the same with this game.
 
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Fredrik

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It’s the worst 849kr I’ve spent in a long time. Looks great and there are some nostalgia from the settings and music but as a fan of the original game I absolutely hate the remake, feels like a super janky third person beat’em up by a AA dev and nothing about the new gameplay feels like FF7.
 

Lethal01

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Saw this thread this morning but didn't wanna be the first reply.

Saying FF VII R is a masterpiece but then outright disliking parts of it and full well knowing it has problems is some extreme version of Stockholm Syndrome.

30 hours in Midgar was trash but that Yuffie DLC was tight.

Even the best pieces of media have flaws, I have yet to find one I've found perfect but that's no reason to hesitate from calling it a masterpiece.
 

Lethal01

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I loved it but my biggest issue with it -which seems ever more glaring every time I come back to it- is that there's barely any decision-making on the part of the player outside of battle flow, Materia setups and side missions, and even then things are fairly limited. There are many, many different ways to play the original FF7, but there's basically only one way to play the remake. You can't explore without the game's permission, you're frequently denied seemingly accessible areas by the plot. You're constantly pushed forward on this linear path. Each character's role in battle is so uniquely strong and important that you're rarely encouraged to try anything different with them. There's not a lot of Materia types, so customisation doesn't let you get particularly creative. Buffs and debuffs are relevant, but always straightforward and obvious. It feels like everybody's experience with the remake has gone pretty much the same way, whereas every player had a different story to tell back in 1997.

What it does well it does incredibly well, I just wish there was more of the original's freedom and abundantly rich versatility.



There's times when it works and times when it unfortunately doesn't.


I too often think about how bland that elavator is compared to the original, But I think for every area the orignal did well there are 5 more that are pretty meh which the remake fills in with great visuals so I find that it's a more than a fair trade.

That said, I definitely would ask for stylized anime grpahics over realism.
 

YukiOnna

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May 17, 2019
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Canada
Hmm the only time I was ever bothered by the gameplay in anyway was on Chapter 14(?) where you had to return to an area. I thought that broke up the pacing and it tired me out on the design of the game. Other than that, I had no problem with its linearity or the slower moments of the game where you're mostly just walking. Probably because I was already invested in the characters and world where I enjoy such segments. Other than that, the balance of exploration and straight up combat was OK with me. Then again, I don't place much important or value in being able to replay a game.

It's not going to be the same at all in Part 2 anyway.
 

SenjutsuSage

Member
Jan 23, 2010
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Honestly... FF7:R is not that great.

Yes, it looks fantastic and the soundtrack is great too. But besides that, there writing is garbage.
They wanted to make a 30 hours adventure out of the first 6 hours of the original and the execution is very bad.

Useless and unimaginative side quests that add 0 to the story, entire worthless filler sections which ruins the pace instead of character development related misions, plot holes...
The game if far from a masterpiece since one of the main elements of a story driven game is actually awful.

The coat of paint and the combat saves it but, it could have been done so much better.

Read my mind. I'm convinced that the original still smokes it by a healthy margin because I don't want bits and pieces of the larger adventure. I want the whole thing, and I don't want parts needlessly stretched out, which is how it felt to me.