• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
  • Hi Guest. We've rebooted and consolidated our Communities section, so be sure to check it out and subscribe to some threads. Thanks!

#GamerGate thread 2: it's about feminism in games journalism

Status
Not open for further replies.

ModBot

Not a mod, just a bot.
Here we are again in another thread about this thing.

If you are just joining us and are wondering what this is about and whether it's worth your time, Protip: don't bother. But if you insist, the brief summary is that #GamerGate is an ongoing hashtag used by people who don't want feminist and social justice-related commentary in games journalism. Or in their words, "get politics out of video games" and/or "more ethics in games journalism." (If you really want, here's a lengthier explanation: http://www.doctornerdlove.com/2014/10/when-we-talk-about-gamergate/)

This subject is incredibly contentious, so this thread will likely be heavily moderated.

Some guidelines:
1. Don't care, don't post.
2. Tinfoil-hat imgur links or conspiracy arguments are not welcome.
3. Concern trolling is not welcome. Recall that we can see your old posts. (Related: if you link to something stupid saying "gosh what do you guys think" be prepared to be treated as though you support it.)
4. Don't link us to some idiot on twitter you're arguing with or otherwise try to get GAF to support you offsite.
5. Please be kind to your fellow posters. Or at the very least civil.
6. Don't backseat mod (or go "lol u gonna get banned" or whatever else) in response to failures on any of the above. PM a mod instead.

And for our newer members, remember that juniors are on a very short leash.
 

Anton Sugar

Member
Jul 26, 2007
34,865
0
1,010
So, I want to comply with rule 4 and not just shit all over Davis Aurini without context.

Is he considered a prominent figurehead of GamerGate? I know he is the head of The Sarkeesian Effect, but I don't know if that's divergent from GamerGate "proper".
 

chaobreaker

Member
Nov 18, 2013
9,627
3
0
Canada
Might as well get this out of the way:

GamerGate's original claims are that Zoe Quinn slept around for coverage favors. This was debunked literally months ago. And yet it persists.



Other bullshit about Zoe Quinn


  • Zoe Quinn was and still is today regularly accused of doxxing herself.
  • Zoe Quinn was and still is today accused of faking death, rape, and other threats.
  • Zoe Quinn doesn't actually sell the game she's accused of sleeping around to get coverage of. It's a free game about Depression, called Depression Quest, created to help others learn to live and deal with the disease. She does take donations, and was accused of lying about giving those donations to charity. However, the charity confirmed the donations were actually received
  • When accusations of those lies first arose, GamerGate started donating to that charity in her place. After the charity confirmed receiving the donations, GamerGate started harassing the charity and threatening it with legal action because they claim they "didn't disclose publicly" they had received donations from her (even though that is not actuall illegal). This is a charity is made up of volunteers and a part-time paid intern, helping people deal with depression
  • Zoe Quinn is frequently accused of winning an award (instead of Papers Please) for Depression Quest because she slept with someone. In actuality, her game didn't receive an award, but just an honorable mention. Papers Please did indeed win the award. No evidence backs up the claim she slept with someone to get the....honorable mention.
  • Zoe Quinn was accused to have "deliberately sabotaged, DDOSed, doxxed, and shut down" TFYC ("The Fine Young Capitalists") because they were "competition" for Rebel Game Jam. The reality is that it's yet another bunch of bullshit accusations against her.

Other bullshit about Anita Sarkeesian



Even more bullshit



So what is GamerGate, in actuality?


  • It's a carefully coordinated attack on women in gaming, orchestrated by the underbelly of 4chan, deliberately masquerading itself as a "concern about ethics in game journalism" because that's the only way it would gather mainstream support
  • It's an attack on ethical journalism, the exact thing they have claimed to fight for:
    ]1) The main target of #GamerGate is not a journalist. She’s a video game developer. Holding her accountable for “ethics in journalism” is like telling your accountant that it’s his job to negotiate peace treaties in the Middle East.

    2) The second biggest target of #GamerGate is an exemplar of clean journalism. If what you don’t like about gaming journalism is that it’s too cozy with the industry and therefore the writers are afraid to be critical, then your fucking hero should be Anita Sarkeesian. She funded herself with Kickstarter and not industry money. She is harshly critical of video games, even as she is a fan. She is the ideal of what a critical gaming journalist should be: Knowledgeable, critical, fair, thorough and utterly non-corrupt.

    3) The biggest victory to date of #GamerGate has been an attack on ethical journalism. One of the most important ideas when it comes to ethical journalism is that there’s a wall between advertising and editorial. #GamerGaters hate this rule of ethics, because, as opponents of ethical journalism, they wish to control what journalists say and censor any ideas or opinions that they don’t want to hear. And so they have been targeting advertisers, trying to get them to pull ads from gaming websites that publish ideas they wish to censor.

    5) The most recent target of #GamerGate was selected because she engages in ethical journalism. If Brianna Wu had kept her mouth shut and just quietly developed video games, she probably would have been left alone. Instead, she dipped her toe into the art of writing ethical journalistic pieces. But, because they are opponents of ethical journalism, #GamerGaters attacked Wu like they do any other young woman that doesn’t just churn out mindless pro-sexist propaganda.

    6) One of the main leaders of #GamerGate works for Breitbart. Milo Yiannopoulos has been up front, rallying the troops of #GamerGate and even helping them select the inevitably young, female targets for harassment. He also works for Breitbart, an organization whose hostility towards ethical journalism is legendary. No surprise there, because #GamerGate is also opposed to ethical journalism.

    In other words, #GamerGate is about “ethics in journalism” in the same way Fox News is “fair and balanced”, which is to say “not in the slightest and, in fact, they are the opposite”. Fox News called itself “fair and balanced” to cover for a not-exactly-discreet intention to be unfair, unbalanced and frequently just straight up misleading. And so #GamerGate claims to be about ethics in journalism, when in fact it is about the opposite: Bullying gaming journalists until they get in line with a corporate-friendly agenda of uncritically marketing “games pitched at the intellectual and emotional level of a 16-year-old suburban masturbator“. Anyone who actually tries to talk about anything interesting or intellectually engaging, particularly if female, will be drilled out with harassment.
 

Mael

Member
Oct 23, 2009
23,428
0
0
France
We were cut short so we were talking about the video by French media Arretsurimage making a debate about gamergate with 1 feminist, 1 journalist and a guy without a job that's pretty much proGG.

It's not really a French issue anyway so I can already tell that no one seeing this will see anything but 3 children using to much technology while they could be doing something productive.
And the only thing this extract have from the pro GG crowd is : It's not us! and we were among the 1rst one to say that it's not us doing this.
Not even in French GG manage to look anything but hilariously stupid.
 

JackDT

Member
Jul 11, 2012
1,448
0
400
David Gaider (Bioware/Dragon Age Lead Writer) responds to push back against another Bioware Dev (John Elper) who defended Anita's Criticism on twitter.

http://dgaider.tumblr.com/post/100838707464/wakeuplena-john-epler-you-either-havent
He cuts to the heart of it IMO:

I’ve seen the @femfreq videos as well, and I’ve commented on them previously. When I did so, I got a deluge of exactly this type of response: “But she’s cherry-picking her evidence!” “Her views are biased!” “Everything about those videos is garbage, and she needs to be stopped!”

Okay. Let’s pretend for a moment that, for those of you who feel this way, you’re absolutely right. My question is this:

Why the fuck do you even care?

Is there such a profound shortage of shitty opinions on YouTube or elsewhere on the Internet that the appearance of this one constitutes a crime in the making? Have you asked yourself why it’s this particular opinion that drives you up the goddamned wall? What do you tell yourself, if and when you stop for that moment of introspection?

I was recently talking to a colleague who suggested a notion that’s stuck with me. It’s the idea that many of these people don’t think of feminism as a thing. Or, if it is a thing, it certainly has no bearing on them or on the game industry. It’s not real. A made-up problem.

Since it’s not a real issue, so is the idea of women being subject to any kind of systemic abuse or oppression. “Hey, I’m a gamer—I’ve been ridiculed and marginalized as well. Why does nobody care about my problems? Everyone has issues, so why do I suddenly have to be the bad guy? You guys are oppressing me!”
 

chaobreaker

Member
Nov 18, 2013
9,627
3
0
Canada
So, I want to comply with rule 4 and not just shit all over Davis Aurini without context.

Is he considered a prominent figurehead of GamerGate? I know he is the head of The Sarkeesian Effect, but I don't know if that's divergent from GamerGate "proper".
Not really, but his hounding of Sarkeesian and her videos has been happening long before the movement was a thing. He's made it his business to make videos accusing her of being a scammer. He gets funding for his documentary from donations by the kind of people who would be GGers today.
 
Jun 19, 2013
23,829
0
0
So, what hashtags are currently running?
#StopGamerGate has little action
Many people have switched over to #GamersAgainstGamergate.

I'm done with the hashtag stuff myself, doing what I can to actively reach out and show support for people who've been targeted and inform people who are concerned but haven't kept up.

Not saying I don't care or anything, but I'm shocked this is still going on. Didn't think it would have this kind of legs.
Hate has stamina
 

Sciz

Member
Oct 9, 2007
11,041
0
920
Useful links:

 
Feb 3, 2007
10,323
0
0
I hope this doesn't fall under don't care don't post but I find it profoundly depressing that this shit has continued long enough to earn a second topic.

Who is still defending this hate campaign and why?
 

DICKS AHOY

Banned
Nov 4, 2010
9,638
0
0
Shit, didn't know JonTron backed out.

I don't remember him being 'pro' GG in the first place; just saying and posting some incredibly stupid shit around the time this started because he had a previous beef with Zoe Quinn in that Game Jam thing.
 

Kinyou

Member
Sep 12, 2009
48,208
2
765
Might as well get this out of the way:
Zoe Quinn doesn't actually sell the game she's accused of sleeping around to get coverage of. It's a free game about Depression, called Depression Quest, created to help others learn to live and deal with the disease. She does take donations
Didn't it initially cost something and was made free after some time? Or am I misinformed there?
 

DocSeuss

Member
Mar 26, 2012
9,246
0
0
Lawrence, KS
twitter.com
He cuts to the heart of it IMO:
The simple answer to that Gaider remark is that most YT video creators with problematic criticism aren't being positioned as experts on the subject who get to consult developers on how they should write their stories. Sarkeesian is. For some people, that's a concern.

It's like choosing to criticize someone on a Federal Board of Education vs some person going around town with fliers talking about school. Nobody really cares about the kooks going around, but someone on the BoE is in a position of power, so naturally more critical attention is paid to them.

Sarkeesian's in a position of huge influence, ergo, Sarkeesian warrants more attention.

There's much better defense of her than Gaider provides.
 

L Thammy

Member
Nov 4, 2012
15,055
1
0
Happy to know that even annoying Youtubers can learn and grow. Even if it's screwy he got doxxed.
On that note, Darksydephil has turned out to be anti-Gamergate. Kind of a pleasant surprise. Although, that said, he's really uninformed about it.

Who is still defending this hate campaign and why?
Apparently, the people who are joining only to get banned ten minutes later.
 

dLMN8R

Member
Dec 14, 2007
11,578
0
880
Haha time for misinformation!
I know he's banned, but if anyone actually does have any evidence that the post has "misinformation", I'm sure we'd all love to see it so that list can be fixed.

I mean....it's pretty cut and dry.

  • Claim - link supporting claim
  • Claim - link supporting claim
 
Feb 22, 2009
8,053
3
0

Spork4000

Member
Mar 29, 2013
13,270
0
0
First time posting in this thread.....I think? I may have absentmindedly posted awhile ago, but now that I have a firm grasp of the situation, I'm amazed at how insane this got. I guess a bunch of incredibly entitled people managed to trick a few public figures into following them. No matter what good points they may have had, very few mind you, it got incredibly screwed up by the negative attitudes things like this can bring. I just want to say good on gaf for realizing what was really going on and being a positive voice lately.
 

Shosai

Banned
Sep 29, 2012
1,024
0
0
I know he's banned, but if anyone actually does have any evidence that the post has "misinformation", I'm sure we'd all love to see it so that list can be fixed.

I mean....it's pretty cut and dry.

  • Claim - link supporting claim
  • Claim - link supporting claim
Well, that's a discussion that's not going to take place. He could have been referring to the accusations made by GG, but probably not.

I'm assuming the accusations that don't have linked citations were made by errant idiots in the depths of 4chan? It's harder to source those.
 

partyphone

Banned
Dec 27, 2012
5,890
0
0
www.platformers.net
wut?

how is this still going on?
it's actually always been going on this is just the first time it's been so heavily focused on a single hashtag.

and since their main goal is to silence people who don't think like them it's important that we keep talking about this.

"them" being the misogynists and anti-feminists who want to maintain the status quo in the gaming world. "we" being the decent humans beings who believe that video games are for everyone and that the more people making, playing and talking about video games the better. "this" being a concentrated hate campaign hell bent on harassing women and people who defend women in gaming.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.