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[ModBot]

Here we are again in another thread about this thing.

If you are just joining us and are wondering what this is about and whether it's worth your time, Protip: don't bother. But if you insist, the brief summary is that #GamerGate is an ongoing hashtag used by people who don't want feminist and social justice-related commentary in games journalism. Or in their words, "get politics out of video games" and/or "more ethics in games journalism." (If you really want, here's a lengthier explanation: http://www.doctornerdlove.com/2014/10/when-we-talk-about-gamergate/)

This subject is incredibly contentious, so this thread will likely be heavily moderated.

Some guidelines:
1. Don't care, don't post.
2. Tinfoil-hat imgur links or conspiracy arguments are not welcome.
3. Concern trolling is not welcome. Recall that we can see your old posts. (Related: if you link to something stupid saying "gosh what do you guys think" be prepared to be treated as though you support it.)
4. Don't link us to some idiot on twitter you're arguing with or otherwise try to get GAF to support you offsite.
5. Please be kind to your fellow posters. Or at the very least civil.
6. Don't backseat mod (or go "lol u gonna get banned" or whatever else) in response to failures on any of the above. PM a mod instead.

And for our newer members, remember that juniors are on a very short leash.

 

[Silky]

nvm

 

[UNCyrus]

Dat rule of first replies.

 

[Anton Sugar]

So, I want to comply with rule 4 and not just shit all over Davis Aurini without context.

Is he considered a prominent figurehead of GamerGate? I know he is the head of The Sarkeesian Effect, but I don't know if that's divergent from GamerGate "proper".

 

[chaobreaker]

Might as well get this out of the way:

GamerGate's original claims are that Zoe Quinn slept around for coverage favors. This was debunked literally months ago. And yet it persists.

• Kotaku shows that Nathan never wrote the articles he was accused of writing

  On March 31, Nathan published the only Kotaku article he's written involving Zoe Quinn. It was about Game Jam, a failed reality show that Zoe and other developers were upset about being on. At the time, Nathan and Zoe were professional acquaintances. He quoted blog posts written by Zoe and others involved in the show. Shortly after that, in early April, Nathan and Zoe began a romantic relationship. He has not written about her since. Nathan never reviewed Zoe Quinn's game Depression Quest, let alone gave it a favorable review.

• Rock Paper Shotgun: This is the only article Nathan ever wrote on Rock Paper Shotgun that mentioned Depression quest.
• GamerGate has not provided any other evidence to back up this assertion
• Even though Nathan Grayson is the journalist accused of this unethical behavior (and he never actually wrote the articles he was accused of writing), and GamerGate insisting this is about "ethics in journalism", they can't seem to stop talking about Zoe Quinn (not a journalist) and Anita Sarkeesian (also not a journalist)

Other bullshit about Zoe Quinn

• Zoe Quinn was and still is today regularly accused of doxxing herself.
• Zoe Quinn was and still is today accused of faking death, rape, and other threats.
• Zoe Quinn doesn't actually sell the game she's accused of sleeping around to get coverage of. It's a free game about Depression, called Depression Quest, created to help others learn to live and deal with the disease. She does take donations, and was accused of lying about giving those donations to charity. However, the charity confirmed the donations were actually received
• When accusations of those lies first arose, GamerGate started donating to that charity in her place. After the charity confirmed receiving the donations, GamerGate started harassing the charity and threatening it with legal action because they claim they "didn't disclose publicly" they had received donations from her (even though that is not actuall illegal). This is a charity is made up of volunteers and a part-time paid intern, helping people deal with depression
• Zoe Quinn is frequently accused of winning an award (instead of Papers Please) for Depression Quest because she slept with someone. In actuality, her game didn't receive an award, but just an honorable mention. Papers Please did indeed win the award. No evidence backs up the claim she slept with someone to get the....honorable mention.
• Zoe Quinn was accused to have "deliberately sabotaged, DDOSed, doxxed, and shut down" TFYC ("The Fine Young Capitalists") because they were "competition" for Rebel Game Jam. The reality is that it's yet another bunch of bullshit accusations against her.

Other bullshit about Anita Sarkeesian

• Anita Sarkeesian was similarly accused of faking threats. Still happens regularly.
• The FBI confirmed the threats were real, currently under investigation.
• Anita Sarkeesian needed to cancel an appearance for a talk at a university because of extremely specific and violent threats against her and the students.
• Reminder: Anita Sarkeesian is not a journalist. She makes videos about video games, and that's it. Any attack on Anita Sarkeesian masquerading as "a fight for ethics in journalism" is automatically and instantly misplaced.

Even more bullshit

• There is a mailing list in which games writers talk to each other. Warning: Breitbart link. This fact was presented as inherently controversial, but not really explained why. Absolutely nothing worthy of discussion was ever found on this mailing list. Just people who happen to share the same job, joking with each other, and asking each other uncontroversial questions.
• One frequent accusation of journalist collusion is that there was a collected and coordinated effort to write "gamers are dead" articles to attack gamers. In actuality:
  • The first article, written by Leigh Alexander, was targeted at developers (the audience of Gamasutra), explaining how the gamer stereotype no longer has to be their focus, since games are so much broader. She wasn't attacking gamers, she was attacking the outdated stereotype
  • The subsequent articles are all related to and reactions of the first, not indepedent takes at a coincidental time indicating collusion.
  • Rock Paper Shotgun is often accused to have written their own "Gamers are dead" article. They didn't. They quoted one in a weekly round-up.
• Jenn Frank was accused of failing to disclose a conflict of interest. She actually did disclose this in her initial draft, but before publication this was "removed by editors because [it] did not fulfill the criteria for a “significant connection” in line with the Guardian’s editorial guidelines."
• Maya Kramer was accused of colluding/sleeping with the IGF chairman to secure an award for The Stanley Parable, a game she'd done PR for. This award was actually the Audience Award, and is decided by a public vote on the website and consequently immune to this alleged impropriety.
• Phil Fish, developer of the game Fez, is acused to have fixed the IGF 2012 awards. But while Fez's backers were part of the judges, they did not actually have a say in the vote since they weren't a part of the jury that makes the decision.
• The Escapist ran a horribly misguided attempt at interviewing GamerGate supporters who are developers. Pretty much everything that could have gone wrong, did go wrong.
  • Titles of the articles are "game developers" and "female game developers". Um. What?
  • None of the female game developers felt safe to share their actual identities
  • The questions are ridiculously loaded
  • The male game developers were sourced straight from 4chan...you'll never guess what happened next
  • One of the male developers interviewed was directly involved in coordinated attacks against Zoe Quinn, Anita Sarkeesian, and others including baseless accusations like tax fraud.

So what is GamerGate, in actuality?

• It's a carefully coordinated attack on women in gaming, orchestrated by the underbelly of 4chan, deliberately masquerading itself as a "concern about ethics in game journalism" because that's the only way it would gather mainstream support
• It's an attack on ethical journalism, the exact thing they have claimed to fight for:

  ]1) The main target of #GamerGate is not a journalist. She’s a video game developer. Holding her accountable for “ethics in journalism” is like telling your accountant that it’s his job to negotiate peace treaties in the Middle East.
  
  2) The second biggest target of #GamerGate is an exemplar of clean journalism. If what you don’t like about gaming journalism is that it’s too cozy with the industry and therefore the writers are afraid to be critical, then your fucking hero should be Anita Sarkeesian. She funded herself with Kickstarter and not industry money. She is harshly critical of video games, even as she is a fan. She is the ideal of what a critical gaming journalist should be: Knowledgeable, critical, fair, thorough and utterly non-corrupt.
  
  3) The biggest victory to date of #GamerGate has been an attack on ethical journalism. One of the most important ideas when it comes to ethical journalism is that there’s a wall between advertising and editorial. #GamerGaters hate this rule of ethics, because, as opponents of ethical journalism, they wish to control what journalists say and censor any ideas or opinions that they don’t want to hear. And so they have been targeting advertisers, trying to get them to pull ads from gaming websites that publish ideas they wish to censor.
  
  5) The most recent target of #GamerGate was selected because she engages in ethical journalism. If Brianna Wu had kept her mouth shut and just quietly developed video games, she probably would have been left alone. Instead, she dipped her toe into the art of writing ethical journalistic pieces. But, because they are opponents of ethical journalism, #GamerGaters attacked Wu like they do any other young woman that doesn’t just churn out mindless pro-sexist propaganda.
  
  6) One of the main leaders of #GamerGate works for Breitbart. Milo Yiannopoulos has been up front, rallying the troops of #GamerGate and even helping them select the inevitably young, female targets for harassment. He also works for Breitbart, an organization whose hostility towards ethical journalism is legendary. No surprise there, because #GamerGate is also opposed to ethical journalism.
  
  In other words, #GamerGate is about “ethics in journalism” in the same way Fox News is “fair and balanced”, which is to say “not in the slightest and, in fact, they are the opposite”. Fox News called itself “fair and balanced” to cover for a not-exactly-discreet intention to be unfair, unbalanced and frequently just straight up misleading. And so #GamerGate claims to be about ethics in journalism, when in fact it is about the opposite: Bullying gaming journalists until they get in line with a corporate-friendly agenda of uncritically marketing “games pitched at the intellectual and emotional level of a 16-year-old suburban masturbator“. Anyone who actually tries to talk about anything interesting or intellectually engaging, particularly if female, will be drilled out with harassment.

 

[DNAbro]

nvm

oh cmon that was a brilliant first reply

 

[nelchaar]

Might as well get this out of the way:

Was about to say that I wish the OP included some sort of summary. Thanks!

 

[Mael]

We were cut short so we were talking about the video by French media Arretsurimage making a debate about gamergate with 1 feminist, 1 journalist and a guy without a job that's pretty much proGG.

It's not really a French issue anyway so I can already tell that no one seeing this will see anything but 3 children using to much technology while they could be doing something productive.
And the only thing this extract have from the pro GG crowd is : It's not us! and we were among the 1rst one to say that it's not us doing this.
Not even in French GG manage to look anything but hilariously stupid.

 

[Neuromancer]

Remember: just because you don't have any proof, doesn't mean that video game publishers, the enthusiast press and radical feminists aren't actively working together to ruin your hobby.

 

[Anton Sugar]

Relevant Chainsawsuit.com comics

 

[JackDT]

David Gaider (Bioware/Dragon Age Lead Writer) responds to push back against another Bioware Dev (John Elper) who defended Anita's Criticism on twitter.

http://dgaider.tumblr.com/post/100838707464/wakeuplena-john-epler-you-either-havent

He cuts to the heart of it IMO:

I’ve seen the @femfreq videos as well, and I’ve commented on them previously. When I did so, I got a deluge of exactly this type of response: “But she’s cherry-picking her evidence!” “Her views are biased!” “Everything about those videos is garbage, and she needs to be stopped!”

Okay. Let’s pretend for a moment that, for those of you who feel this way, you’re absolutely right. My question is this:

Why the fuck do you even care?

Is there such a profound shortage of shitty opinions on YouTube or elsewhere on the Internet that the appearance of this one constitutes a crime in the making? Have you asked yourself why it’s this particular opinion that drives you up the goddamned wall? What do you tell yourself, if and when you stop for that moment of introspection?

I was recently talking to a colleague who suggested a notion that’s stuck with me. It’s the idea that many of these people don’t think of feminism as a thing. Or, if it is a thing, it certainly has no bearing on them or on the game industry. It’s not real. A made-up problem.

Since it’s not a real issue, so is the idea of women being subject to any kind of systemic abuse or oppression. “Hey, I’m a gamer—I’ve been ridiculed and marginalized as well. Why does nobody care about my problems? Everyone has issues, so why do I suddenly have to be the bad guy? You guys are oppressing me!”

 

[LordJim]

So, what hashtags are currently running?
#StopGamerGate has little action

 

[Zona]

He cuts to the heart of it IMO:

Reminds me of the Cracked article...

"Gentlemen," we said amid the stunned silence, "do you realize that if what they're saying is true, then this is still the most pointless fucking bullshit anyone has ever forced us to read?"

 

[The Llama]

Not saying I don't care or anything, but I'm shocked this is still going on. Didn't think it would have this kind of legs.

 

[chaobreaker]

So, I want to comply with rule 4 and not just shit all over Davis Aurini without context.

Is he considered a prominent figurehead of GamerGate? I know he is the head of The Sarkeesian Effect, but I don't know if that's divergent from GamerGate "proper".

Not really, but his hounding of Sarkeesian and her videos has been happening long before the movement was a thing. He's made it his business to make videos accusing her of being a scammer. He gets funding for his documentary from donations by the kind of people who would be GGers today.

 

[LiegeWaffle]

Some recommended reading and watching from previous thread:

• Dan Olson on Gamergate
• "Bad Apples of Gamergate"

Might add some other articles later, once I recall.

 

[L Thammy]

Another good overview.

The Future of the Culture Wars is Here and It's Gamergate

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

So, what hashtags are currently running?
#StopGamerGate has little action

Many people have switched over to #GamersAgainstGamergate.

I'm done with the hashtag stuff myself, doing what I can to actively reach out and show support for people who've been targeted and inform people who are concerned but haven't kept up.

Not saying I don't care or anything, but I'm shocked this is still going on. Didn't think it would have this kind of legs.

Hate has stamina

 

[jstripes]

Kotaku's taken another swing at it, and the fear of speaking up:

http://kotaku.com/felicia-day-and-gamergate-this-is-what-happens-now-1650544129

 

[Sciz]

Useful links:

• pixietalksgamergate - Debunks a lot of GG claims and analyzes the actual content of the "gamers are dead" articles, among lots of other good coverage
• Dan Olson's Folding Ideas #GG episode - Analyzes the motivations and assumptions of Gamergate from an academic point of view
• Journalist Jesse Singal investigates Gamergate and talks about what he found
• Journalist Glenn Fleishman talks about ethics in journalism in the context of Gamergate's claims
• Are Feminists Taking Over Video Games? - They're slightly better at it than Peter Molyneux

 

[Messofanego]

Shit, didn't know JonTron backed out.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

Shit, didn't know JonTron backed out.

He got doxxed.

 

[Messofanego]

He got doxxed.

That sucks.

 

[JesseEwiak]

Happy to know that even annoying Youtubers can learn and grow. Even if it's screwy he got doxxed.

 

[TheHollowNight]

Kinda depressed we're at thread number 2 with this :/

 

[bonercop]

Shit, didn't know JonTron backed out.

Good on him. Major props to him for admitting he was wrong, rather than just continuing to double down on this for months like other internet-famous people.

 

[udivision]

Shit, didn't know JonTron backed out.

He was fooled by GG for the last time.

 

[Bold One]

wut?

how is this still going on?

 

[UnderWaterTree]

Shit, didn't know JonTron backed out.

Jontron is throwing some shade out that's surprising i hope hes prepared for the the storm to come

 

[JC Sera]

Also linking the foldable human video
also @HP_Wuvcraft thanks I got bored

Spoiler

I looked in that forum and noped out at the "That chart, the wage gap and the 1 in 5 women will be raped, makes me believe that feminism and statistical analysis don't mix well."comment

Kinda depressed we're at thread number 2 with this :/

That was a potential thread name!

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

I hope this doesn't fall under don't care don't post but I find it profoundly depressing that this shit has continued long enough to earn a second topic.

Who is still defending this hate campaign and why?

 

[Shosai]

There's also been some civil discussions going on with Andrew Sullivan's the Daily Beast, which would've killed this conflict had it taken place from the start

http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2014/10/24/the-end-of-gamer-culture-2/

 

[DICKS AHOY]

Shit, didn't know JonTron backed out.

I don't remember him being 'pro' GG in the first place; just saying and posting some incredibly stupid shit around the time this started because he had a previous beef with Zoe Quinn in that Game Jam thing.

 

[Silky]

Shit, didn't know JonTron backed out.

At least he knows when to stop. Impressed.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

Kinda depressed we're at thread number 2 with this :/

Hey. At least this is the second anti-GG thread in the history instead of a fifth pro-GG thread.

 

[Kinyou]

Might as well get this out of the way:

Zoe Quinn doesn't actually sell the game she's accused of sleeping around to get coverage of. It's a free game about Depression, called Depression Quest, created to help others learn to live and deal with the disease. She does take donations

Didn't it initially cost something and was made free after some time? Or am I misinformed there?

 

[Bwendin]

Might as well get this out of the way:

Haha time for misinformation!

 

[DocSeuss]

He cuts to the heart of it IMO:

The simple answer to that Gaider remark is that most YT video creators with problematic criticism aren't being positioned as experts on the subject who get to consult developers on how they should write their stories. Sarkeesian is. For some people, that's a concern.

It's like choosing to criticize someone on a Federal Board of Education vs some person going around town with fliers talking about school. Nobody really cares about the kooks going around, but someone on the BoE is in a position of power, so naturally more critical attention is paid to them.

Sarkeesian's in a position of huge influence, ergo, Sarkeesian warrants more attention.

There's much better defense of her than Gaider provides.

 

[Shosai]

Didn't it initially cost something and was made free after some time? Or am I misinformed there?

Right, DQ became free 2-3 months ago, the affairs took place when it first launched on steam.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

There's also been some civil discussions going on with Andrew Sullivan's the Daily Beast, which would've killed this conflict had it taken place from the start

http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2014/10/24/the-end-of-gamer-culture-2/

Did you actually read this

 

[The Technomancer]

Shit, didn't know JonTron backed out.

Meh, fuck him still. He knew it was never about ethics to begin with

 

[L Thammy]

Happy to know that even annoying Youtubers can learn and grow. Even if it's screwy he got doxxed.

On that note, Darksydephil has turned out to be anti-Gamergate. Kind of a pleasant surprise. Although, that said, he's really uninformed about it.

Who is still defending this hate campaign and why?

Apparently, the people who are joining only to get banned ten minutes later.

 

[dLMN8R]

Haha time for misinformation!

I know he's banned, but if anyone actually does have any evidence that the post has "misinformation", I'm sure we'd all love to see it so that list can be fixed.

I mean....it's pretty cut and dry.

• Claim - link supporting claim
• Claim - link supporting claim

 

[Rogue_element]

And for our newer members, remember that juniors are on a very short leash.

Makes me sound like a dog. Cheers for that.

 

[More Fun To Compute]

There's also been some civil discussions going on with Andrew Sullivan's the Daily Beast, which would've killed this conflict had it taken place from the start

http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2014/10/24/the-end-of-gamer-culture-2/

Don't see how that would have ended any "culture war." Whatever this culture war is it is hard to see what goals it has other than ego and narcissism and they can't be satisfied.

 

[JC Sera]

Do you think we should have a link to the PBS Ideas Logic Fallacy video in the OP?

Spoiler

also wow at how fast that guy got banned

 

[……forgetit]

First time posting in this thread.....I think? I may have absentmindedly posted awhile ago, but now that I have a firm grasp of the situation, I'm amazed at how insane this got. I guess a bunch of incredibly entitled people managed to trick a few public figures into following them. No matter what good points they may have had, very few mind you, it got incredibly screwed up by the negative attitudes things like this can bring. I just want to say good on gaf for realizing what was really going on and being a positive voice lately.

 

[chaobreaker]

Haha time for misinformation!

I said this before, but I'm wondering how many have pro-GG members we have ready to sacrifice their GAF accounts for their movement?

 

[Shosai]

I know he's banned, but if anyone actually does have any evidence that the post has "misinformation", I'm sure we'd all love to see it so that list can be fixed.

I mean....it's pretty cut and dry.

• Claim - link supporting claim
• Claim - link supporting claim

Well, that's a discussion that's not going to take place. He could have been referring to the accusations made by GG, but probably not.

I'm assuming the accusations that don't have linked citations were made by errant idiots in the depths of 4chan? It's harder to source those.

 

[partyphone]

wut?

how is this still going on?

it's actually always been going on this is just the first time it's been so heavily focused on a single hashtag.

and since their main goal is to silence people who don't think like them it's important that we keep talking about this.

"them" being the misogynists and anti-feminists who want to maintain the status quo in the gaming world. "we" being the decent humans beings who believe that video games are for everyone and that the more people making, playing and talking about video games the better. "this" being a concentrated hate campaign hell bent on harassing women and people who defend women in gaming.