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[Gamers Nexus] Weak Design: PlayStation 5 Thermals, Power, & Noise Testing

M1chl

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could be wise to wait for the ps5 mini or pro. This choice of cooling worries me. Isnt a new guy was handled to design ps5 cooling? I like to see publication scrutinize him more.


sounds like a lazyboy.
do you mean SX 'sleeps' at 30w?
how weird, i guess that figure measured was still not deep sleep, but while turning to initial sleep.
MS said that they will tune it, because now there is almost zero point having the console in the sleep mode, when SSD boots up the system that fast.

And not sure who designed it, honestly, it seems rather like an oversight.
 
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longdi

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NAND should not be cooled when in use. It would degrade them faster.

nand should not be over cooled in use. there is a optimal temp, but you definitely dont want it to hit 80-90c

Want your SSD to last? Keep it cool, says new study from Facebook
Facebook’s servers house a massive amount of data, so it should come as no surprise that they regularly publish research reports using that data on everything from relationships to the color of the infamous dress. In this case, the study was not about the data itself, but the effect it has on the SSDs that it’s stored on. The researchers found that it wasn’t usage, as is commonly believed, that wears down flash memory, but temperature that has the most effect on data integrity.
 
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Elias

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GDK is not new, devs have stated they've had it since February.
And they've had the PS5 dev kit longer. And the version they can use to actually publish games was only made available to developers in June. And still, it's a work in progress. Keep trying.
 
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FireFistAce

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Can’t wait for Sony fanboys to be like “who is gamers nexus? Never heard of him”. 🤣
Why would you assume that people have heard of him? Is he supposed to be as known as Digital Foundry or Nx Gamer? I’m on GAF almost everyday and I have never heard of him.
 

spyshagg

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could be wise to wait for the ps5 mini or pro. This choice of cooling worries me. Isnt a new guy was handled to design ps5 cooling? I like to see publication scrutinize him more.

This choice of cooling is the high standard across almost every quality appliance. Provide contact where needed, pull the heat from where it is to where it needs to go using heatpipes, cool the heatsink with a fan. Regulate the fan accordingly to keep the hottest component bellow tjmax, which, by the way, all components of the PS5 are.

So, unfounded concern.
 

Md Ray

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More compute units in the GPU and therefore more ray accelerators and shaders
That doesn't translate to better perf automatically. It's harder to utilize higher count CUs than lower count ones. Also, PS5's GPU runs at 22% higher clock speed. So it has a 22% advantage in pixel fillrate and rasterization rate, etc. XSX GPU doesn't have a clear cut GPU advantage. And we can see that in more than one game's performance.
faster CPU
0.1 GHz. So basically the same.
greater bus width and more memory bandwidth.

As for the bandwidth, only 10GB of the pool is at an advantage, the other 6GB is -25% slower than PS5.
Not to mention hardware features like VRS, mesh shaders, SFS, and ML silicon that are not present in the PS5.
There is VRS apparently according to a dev from Activision. GE is a new hardware feature that brings primitive shaders which is likely mesh shaders with a different name. There is likely SFS equivalent too but they haven't disclosed any of them. MS is talking but showing nothing whereas Sony is silent and just letting the games do the talking.
 

AGRacing

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I wouldn't worry about it. As he alludes to at the end Sony has access to the on-hardware temperature probes and has seen how it performs themselves...

Steve has made me roll my eyes a few times in the past - not many - but in this video his theory about Sony obtaining a "letter of exception" from the RAM manufacturer made my eyes do a full 360 in my skull. #RAMGATE
 
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One Big Room, Full Of Bad Bitches
GN is one of the best sources for tech analysis on YouTube. I rely on them for any GPU and CPU testing results.

Great video as always. Sounds like everything is fine except the memory runs a bit hot but the beast fan has headroom to run faster if needed. I’ll trade a little noise for better cooling, if needed.

My PS5 is on for 10+ hour sessions regularly with an external SSD hooked up beside it and haven’t had an issue yet.
 

Elias

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That doesn't translate to better perf automatically. It's harder to utilize higher count CUs than lower count ones. Also, PS5's GPU runs at 22% higher clock speed. So it has a 22% advantage in pixel fillrate and rasterization rate, etc. XSX GPU doesn't have a clear cut GPU advantage. And we can see that in more than one game's performance.

0.1 GHz. So basically the same.


As for the bandwidth, only 10GB of the pool is at an advantage, the other 6GB is -25% slower than PS5.

There is VRS apparently according to a dev from Activision. GE is a new hardware feature that brings primitive shaders which is likely mesh shaders with a different name. There is likely SFS equivalent too but they haven't disclosed any of them. MS is talking but showing nothing whereas Sony is silent and just letting the games do the talking.
More CU (and therefore shaders etc.) on the the same architecture is always better. Unless you think a 6800 will out perform a 6900xt. Clock speed do not give the boost you think they do compared to having more cores in the GPU do the paradigm of parallelization. The rest of your post is speculation as is per usual about "hidden features". And primitive shaders are not the same as mesh shaders lol.
 

spyshagg

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Really? Because why else you have such a big cooler on PC SSDs?

To keep performance from down-throttling in extensive use. The same product will be installed in hundreds of different configurations. They need to cover all kinds of cooling or lack there of.
 
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longdi

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You just googled this subject for the first time in your life and made your mind within 1 minute of research. Search some more.

you show me which other studies have nand flash of ssd needs to run beyond 'warm' temps?
 

prinz_valium

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Why would you assume that people have heard of him? Is he supposed to be as known as Digital Foundry or Nx Gamer? I’m on GAF almost everyday and I have never heard of him.

Definitely way more known and reputable outlet than NX Gamer.
Less known than Digital Foundry, tho.


One of the best Tech channels out there. It's always much more detailed than pretty much everyone else.
 

M1chl

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To keep performance from down-throttling in extensive use. The same product will be installed in hundreds of different configurations. They need to cover all kinds of cooling or lack there of.
Well obviously, but in this thread, there is a notion that NAND should be warm during operation, but I don't think that's really a the case with any semi conductor.
 

spyshagg

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Well obviously, but in this thread, there is a notion that NAND should be warm during operation, but I don't think that's really a the case with any semi conductor.

You would be wrong. Fluctuating temperatures is what damages most IC due to heat/cooling cycles of expansion. Nand is another matter with other issues. It should not be cooled if in its normal operation it does not surpass its rated temp.
 
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M1chl

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You would be wrong. Fluctuating temperatures is what damages most IC due to heat/cooling cycles of expansion. Nand is another matter with other issues. It should not be cooled if in its normal operation it does not surpass its rated temp.
Oh definitely thermal flex is bad, however semiconductors suffer in higher heat, because they have less resitance and thus are more vulnerable towards spikes in voltage and etc. Can you please throw me some article about NAND and temp, if you have one? : )
 

THEAP99

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It helped his PS5 run 5C cooler in the limited benchmarking he performed. Honestly if you can I don’t see how it could hurt.
I could've sworn though it's recommended to keep them on because taking them off could ruin airflow? Hopefully someone does rigorous testing playing with them off
 
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spyshagg

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Also, it's hilarious that the PS5 has better thermals with the panels off :LOL:

The panels and the shape serve the purpose to avoid any other equipment to be stacked against PS5, something you would be able to do if it was flat. They have to prevent the worst scenarios and it was clear from PS4 that the choice they made here would bring benefits.

Once you adopt this strategy, which shape the panels have exactly is up to the design and marketing, as long as the shape is curved and not flat.
 
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sn0man

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I'm all for a little extra noise from the fan if it helped with memory cooling. Rather have a noisy (or a slightly audible) console than a dead one.
I’d take a setting in the UI to prefer slightly cooler operation at the expense of a bit of noise.
 

MoreJRPG

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Why would you assume that people have heard of him? Is he supposed to be as known as Digital Foundry or Nx Gamer? I’m on GAF almost everyday and I have never heard of him.
If you don’t have a gaming PC or built one you wouldn’t know who he is. Don’t worry lol. Steve isn’t a Jim Sterling level of personality.
 

Ehtonk

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Oh noooes i feel there is a thermalgate incoming. A lot of ps5 have artefacts at the moment. Sounds like the memory is getting to hot 🙈🙉
 

Rikkori

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I was expecting much worse based on the title, but this is mostly fine. The issue with the memory temps is that a higher ambient can easily spike that to 100 C, and in the long run I'll wager a lot of PS5s will have an "early" death out of warranty. Luckily it's mostly fixable with removing the plates, and for the really hardcore you could add some thermal pads yourself.

Of course it's hard to argue that that's acceptable for such a mass market product. Very clearly though Sony doesn't care this generation as they're in the milking their customer base phase of the console cycle. Aka Arrogant Sony is back!

It's gonna be fun to see how this does 3-4 years down the line.
 
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Md Ray

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More CU (and therefore shaders etc.) on the the same architecture is always better. Unless you think a 6800 will out perform a 6900xt. Clock speed do not give the boost you think they do compared to having more cores in the GPU do the paradigm of parallelization. The rest of your post is speculation as is per usual about "hidden features". And primitive shaders are not the same as mesh shaders lol.
6800's frequency doesn't run 22% higher than 6900 XT though. What's the point of that comparison?

The PS5's GPU has some clear advantages over XSX GPU and it even shows up in more than one game's performance as I said. Why are you downplaying that? More shaders are good, yes. 18% more TF on XSX. But the PS5 has a 22% faster throughput elsewhere in the GPU.

And it shows:





AssCreed e.g. is a bit extreme. Ignore that if you want. But you get my point.
 
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skneogaf

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He says it's obviously a good thing if warm/hot air is coming out of the back as this will mean the cooling is working well at getting the heat out of the system.

It will be the same thing with the xbox series x so if that does feel warm/hot at the top then good.

I hope Steve trys to improve the ram cooling with a thermal pad or something.
 

spyshagg

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Oh definitely thermal flex is bad, however semiconductors suffer in higher heat, because they have less resitance and thus are more vulnerable towards spikes in voltage and etc. Can you please throw me some article about NAND and temp, if you have one? : )

They suffer with Heat because it shortens the electrical wave which means you have to increase the voltage for the same effect. This in turn increases the wattage which in turn increases the cooling needs. Electric migration only occurs in EXTREME voltages and temps.

Once you design a product, all these factors are estimated, including costs of RMA from malfunctions.

People are trying to dramatize what isn't a problem and giving ill-intended opinions to other people to not buy the product. Its moronic and evil.
 
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M1chl

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They suffer with Heat because it shortens the electrical wave which means you have to increase the voltage for the same effect. This in turn increases the wattage which in turn increases the cooling needs. Electric migration only occurs in EXTREME voltages and temps.

Once you design a product, all these factors are estimated, including costs of RMA from malfunctions.

People are trying to dramatize what isn't a problem and giving ill-intended opinions to other people to not buy the product. Its moronic and evil.
No no, I am asking due to my PC, this is like a OT, I have actively cooled SSD and now I am conteplating if that's a good idea... Because one of my SSD shit the bed and that was also actively cooled. DIY obviously.
 

Md Ray

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yes it is weird to see sony chose not to cool the ssd nand flash and the gddr6.
just a few dabs of thermal paste and spread to the steel internal chasis.

here is your nand 'cooling' in ps5... :messenger_open_mouth:
doesnt even have direct contact with the main big heatsink.
The massive 120mm fan is right next to it and is blowing air onto those SSD NAND flash memory, genius. Your concern trolling is showing.
 
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longdi

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The massive 120mm fan is right next to it and is blowing air onto those SSD NAND flash memory, genius. Your concern trolling is showing.

dont genius me dear 🤷‍♀️


the 120mm may aid the nand cooling, but not the gddr6 it seems.
besides i have not seen steel being used as a heat conductor over aluminium or copper. very peculiar choice by the new Sony guy.
 

Md Ray

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Also, it's hilarious that the PS5 has better thermals with the panels off :LOL:
How is that hilarious? Even the vast majority of PCs have better thermals with the panels off. Even XSX will have better thermals with its outer shell off.
 
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