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[Deleted member 17706]

I mean, you're arguing with someone who has said in the past that gay people are paedophiles, trans & queer people are degenerates and right here in this thread that being trans is a "debilitating mental disorder". So obviously anything going counter to this would be seen by a person like this as harmful.

The irony is that these "SJW companies" want to include these people in society and show them as being normal people whereas the likes of Katsura want them exiled from society at all costs. Yet it's the "SJWs" that are harmful in bizarro anti-SJW world. People like this are why trans people are still murdered for being trans today, why LGBT people still have to fight for their rights today, why gay people are still having rights removed today, why it's still illegal to be LGBT in a lot of places around the world today, and ultimately, why gay people were put in camps in the past.

This is what I mean when I say a clear crossover with anti SJW and alt-right. Fuck it, these aren't even something you can hide behind the vague, meant to be more politically correct "alt right" tag. Katsura is pushing neo-Nazi FUD about LGBT people, the type that people buy into then act to really harm a part of the population.

But it's a lesbian kiss in TLOU2 that's harmful, elle-oh-elle *honk* *honk*

Not going to go out of my way to defend the guy, but to be fair, I think that first quote is a bit of a misrepresentation of what he said. He was talking about a specific type of person that acts like a degenerate in gay pride parades or orchestrates drag shows featuring 10 year olds. I don't think it was an attempt to label all gays in that way.

 

[Geki-D]

Not going to go out of my way to defend the guy, but to be fair, I think that first quote is a bit of a misrepresentation of what he said. He was talking about a specific type of person that acts like a degenerate in gay pride parades or orchestrates drag shows featuring 10 year olds. I don't think it was an attempt to label all gays in that way.

Read through the rest of that thread. Most gay men being paedophiles was a hill he really wanted to die on.

 

[Katsura]

Read through the rest of that thread. Most gay men being paedophiles was a hill he really wanted to die on.

Complete lie. I argued that there are more pedophiles among gays than straight people. Something which was evident even from your own sources except you fail at basic math so you could not understand it. As for the rest of your REEEEEing, what's the point of posting it? Are you resorting to full on personal attacks now that everyone has called you out on your logical fallacies?

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Wait, did you not just insinuate we sounded like crazy people for using the word invasion in the previous post?
Oh and i did actually make a perfectly logical and sound point. You just can't handle it so now you're resorting to tone policing

No, I meant that, without a cogent argument backing up your claims, you sound like a crazy person pushing conspiracy theories, because you feel like you're losing control or something.

What was your logical and sound point? That promoting transgenders as something to celebrate is harmful to society? Transgender people can and do contribute to society just fine. I would be against anyone promoting being trans as "better," but I do not see what is wrong with being accepting of transgender people and letting them live their lives. I'd be right there with you if you were arguing against the crazier demands to abolish all concepts of gender or to deny that any differences exist between the sexes, but I can't say I've seen many games at all do that.

 

[Katsura]

No, I meant that, without a cogent argument backing up your claims, you sound like a crazy person pushing conspiracy theories, because you feel like you're losing control or something.

What was your logical and sound point? That promoting transgenders as something to celebrate is harmful to society? Transgender people can and do contribute to society just fine. I would be against anyone promoting being trans as "better," but I do not see what is wrong with being accepting of transgender people and letting them live their lives. I'd be right there with you if you were arguing against the crazier demands to abolish all concepts of gender or to deny that any differences exist between the sexes, but I can't say I've seen many games at all do that.

Being transgender however does not in itself contribute to society. Transgender people who contribute do so in spite of gender dysphoria, not because of it. We should not be celebrating mental illness. We should be looking for a cure. That should be obvious to anyone but sadly it is not

Instead our society feeds into these peoples delusions which not only does not help them but also prevents science from actually finding a cure. How can you get funding to find a cure if the alphabet people claim it's not a disease and you have full on SJW like the geki dude claiming anyone who points out scientific facts is an alt-right nazi? That's why it's harmful to spread the transgender agenda and that's why the word invasion was perfectly apt

 

[ResurrectedContrarian]

Since I'm also into experimental / narrative / indie games, I've learned to go ahead and read through the Steam reviews (even keyword searching for things like "woke", "LGBT" etc) before purchase. I'm way more vigilant on avoiding giving money to devs who push that kind of content into games than I even am at avoiding mediocre games, lol.

 

[Geki-D]

Complete lie. I argued that there are more pedophiles among gays than straight people. Something which was evident even from your own sources except you fail at basic math so you could not understand it. As for the rest of your REEEEEing, what's the point of posting it? Are you resorting to full on personal attacks now that everyone has called you out on your logical fallacies?

Nah, you took a single study (I posted about 5 or more but they didn't say what you wanted so you ignored them) that actually showed there were less gay male paedos in prison than straight, then you tried to morph the figure from that study to say that actually there are more gay pedophiles then straight never mind it was only a sample of men and you tried to apply it to a majority population of women, or the fact it was a study from the 1980's and you tried to apply the stats to the population today (I did post more recent studies but again, you ignored them). All this just to really push the idea that there sure are a lot of gay paedophiles about.

It's funny you're saying this is all a personal attack. Don't you stand by your own opinions? Sorry dude but LGBT people are degenerates? Gay men are paedophiles? Trans people all just suffer from mental disorders? These are all neo Nazi talking points. I'm sorry that laying this fact down in words offends you. I'm also sure that any LGBT people on here would also consider your FUD personal attacks.

 

[whatup]

My, aren't you just a charming individual. "Sophmoric video game tropes", referring to people who like those tropes as "obnoxious", makes claims of women and soon PoC being most of gamers despite zero evidence, "casual misogyny and tokenism", "male sex fantasy", "diverse talent" despite diversity of skin/sex does not mean diversity of the mind, failure between understanding politics as a theme and a political agenda, shitting on conservative media.

I was referring to the "SJW"-types as often obnoxious, not people who like sophomoric video game tropes. And I'll grant you that the percentage of women considering themselves "gamers" is clearly a minority of the overall gamer population. But they're still an increasingly large proportion of the market. And game companies seeking to expand the pie are inevitably going to aim to make their games more palatable to a wider audience. That has less to do with "politics" than it does capitalism.

Also, I didn't say that PoC comprise most of gamers currently. But they certainly will. Demographics are destiny, as they say.

 

[Katsura]

Nah, you took a single study (I posted about 5 or more but they didn't say what you wanted so you ignored them) that actually showed there were less gay male paedos in prison than straight, then you tried to morph the figure from that study to say that actually there are more gay pedophiles then straight never mind it was only a sample of men and you tried to apply it to a majority population of women, or the fact it was a study from the 1980's and you tried to apply the stats to the population today (I did post more recent studies but again, you ignored them). All this just to really push the idea that there sure are a lot of gay paedophiles about.

It's funny you're saying this is all a personal attack. Don't you stand by your own opinions? Sorry dude but LGBT people are degenerates? Gay men are paedophiles? Trans people all just suffer from mental disorders? These are all neo Nazi talking points. I'm sorry that laying this fact down in words offends you. I'm also sure that any LGBT people on here would also consider your FUD personal attacks.

I never said any of those things though. Do you think you're fooling anyone by grossly oversimplifying what i said? Why are you even derailing this thread to be about me? I'm flattered and all but i'm not in the market for a psycho stalker at the moment

 

[Bigrx1]

It's definitely annoying and it seems to go way beyond games. In general it's like we live in this ULTRA sensitive world now where even big decisions like game development and movies and other things all on some level have to conform to this outrage culture group of society lest their lives be ruined by them if they don't conform. And it's mostly the SJW type community that is like that. Just think of the hypocrisy there - people so hell bent on "equality" and "justice" that they are willing to ruin people's lives that don't follow their ideal via mass online mobs and so forth. What does that sound like? Hmmmmm

 

[Geki-D]

I never said any of those things though. Do you think you're fooling anyone by grossly oversimplifying what i said?

lol Literal links, dude.

promoting transgenders as something to celebrate when it is in fact a debilitating mental disorder is absolutely harmful to society

Why you lying?

Why are you even derailing this thread to be about me? I'm flattered and all but i'm not in the market for a psycho stalker at the moment

Except it's very pretainant to the thread, seeing as you've argued several times that your views are better and less harmful than those these "SJW" games are apparently pushing. Except they're not, they're actually views that do harm people, really in the real world.

 

[Katsura]

lol Literal links, dude.

Why you lying?

Except it's very pretainant to the thread, seeing as you've argued several times that your views are better and less harmful than those these "SJW" games are apparently pushing. Except they're not, they're actually views that do harm people, really in the real world.

Another lie. I haven't argued such a thing. Now, kindly stop derailing yet another thread

 

[ResurrectedContrarian]

Trans people all just suffer from mental disorders? These are all neo Nazi talking points. I'm sorry that laying this fact down in words offends you. I'm also sure that any LGBT people on here would also consider your FUD personal attacks.

Sorry to intervene on this one, but it's objectively true that trans people are suffering mental disorders--and are mutilated versions of their birth sex, since creating the other sex surgically is purely a cosmetic imitation--and that can established without any empirical research, because it's a matter of definition: desperately wanting to have your body surgically mutilated and carved into a non-functional imitation of another body is a severe mental problem by its very nature, regardless of what one thinks of it as a treatment etc.

 

[Geki-D]

Another lie. I haven't argued such a thing. Now, kindly stop derailing yet another thread

Is your memory really that bad or do you just really like to lie?;

This. Anyone who claims both sides are equally bad is either a moron, intellectually dishonest or a regressive LARPing as a centrist

Not at all. You can be annoyed at both sides, that's completely fair. However, when you claim both sides are equally bad you're ignoring that one side is trying to control gaming and one is fighting against that. They are not equally bad

You putting words in my mouth doesn't exactly help portray you as indifferent. I never said anything like that. Do you understand the concept of being intellectually dishonest? If you're not a moron and you're not a regressive then you're clearly being intellectually dishonest if you insist both sides are equally bad. One side is the attacker, the other is the defender. Claiming they're both equally at fault is objectively wrong

Agree completely with the bolded part and i'm not passing judgement on you for not giving a shit. Who am i to control what you want to do? I'm simply opposing the idea that both sides are equally bad. Even if you think both sides are bad, one is worse than the other. That's all i was saying

I can't speak for the poster you were arguing with, but it clearly is a valid word to use if you think the spread of progressiveness is harmful

promoting transgenders as something to celebrate when it is in fact a debilitating mental disorder is absolutely harmful to society

Now please, tell me how the "SJW" side is so much worse for having a gay kiss in TLOU2 Vs. the points you have that have been used for years to actively discriminate against LGBT people?

Sorry to intervene on this one, but it's objectively true that trans people are suffering mental disorders--and are mutilated versions of their birth sex, since creating the other sex surgically is purely a cosmetic imitation--and that can established without any empirical research, because it's a matter of definition: desperately wanting to have your body surgically mutilated and carved into a non-functional imitation of another body is a severe mental problem by its very nature, regardless of what one thinks of it as a treatment etc.

Tell that to the APA

Answers to your questions about transgender people, gender identity, and gender expression

Transgender is an umbrella term used to describe people whose gender identity (sense of themselves as male or female) or gender expression differs from socially constructed norms associated with their birth sex. This includes androgynous, bigendered and gender queer people, who tend to see...

www.apa.org

It's only a mental disorder if it causes considerable distress or disability.

 

[Katsura]

Is your memory really that bad or do you just really like to lie?;






Now please, tell me how the "SJW" side is so much worse for having a gay kiss in TLOU2 Vs. the points you have that have been used for years to actively discriminate against LGBT people?

I'm not going to be baited into derailing the thread. Go make a fan thread where you can be salty about me and let us discuss the actual topic here

 

[llien]

Ok swap "featuring" for "starring" and the point still remains.

No, the whole point is A LIE.
4 (!!!) decades after "Alien", you have blamed people for disliking movie, just because protagonist is a woman.

 

[johntown]

Trans people all just suffer from mental disorders? These are all neo Nazi talking points.

How is this a Neo Nazi talking point? Gender dysphoria is a known mental disorder.

 

[Geki-D]

How is this a Neo Nazi talking point? Gender dysphoria is a known mental disorder.

See the APA link above. The only people still pushing this idea so hard are people with an agenda.

 

[ResurrectedContrarian]

Tell that to the APA

Answers to your questions about transgender people, gender identity, and gender expression

Transgender is an umbrella term used to describe people whose gender identity (sense of themselves as male or female) or gender expression differs from socially constructed norms associated with their birth sex. This includes androgynous, bigendered and gender queer people, who tend to see...

www.apa.org

It's only a mental disorder if it causes considerable distress or disability.

The APA is well known to be extremely politicized on this topic, and yet it's still worth a good laugh to see them trying to thread the needle here. They know that requiring (physically destructive and permanently sterilizing, purely cosmetic) physical surgeries to be at peace is itself way more extreme than any "distress or disability" caused by nearly all the disorders on their list, but the trans lobby is sure to have them say that maybe some people really love being disfigured that way so it's not a disorder. Lol.

 

[llien]

Maybe there is a good story to tell about how modern men are being emasculated and their biological imperatives suppressed by women and minorities...

Women and... minorities?
Asking because, being an immigrant in Germany, do I qualify as "modern men" or as "minority"?

Why did you call out minorities as if they were agender? Isn't it offensive to assume it?

Please, don't be so aggressive.[/QUOTE]

 

[whatup]

How is this a Neo Nazi talking point? Gender dysphoria is a known mental disorder.

It's definitely a disorder. I'm sure the LGBTQ community would disapprove of that framing (and there's an instance where being PC gets in the way of objectivity), but clearly, not identifying with the body you're born into is something that would be very distressing and requires treatment.

You folks seem to be suggesting that it's just psychological, however. I'm sure for some small minority of trans people that's the case. But for most, this is something they're born with. It's not a "mental disorder" (and really, would you talk about people suffering from depression or anxiety this way?), it's a physiological disorder. For those people gender reassignment surgery is the only known treatment and has demonstrable benefits.

 

[Skyfox]

I don't even know why they keep him around. I have seen so many stop supporting because of both him and Ian, but at least Ian can edit worth a damn.

Sad thing is I like Damiani and his work but I wont finance this.

 

[Geki-D]

The APA is well known to be extremely politicized on this topic, and yet it's still worth a good laugh to see them trying to thread the needle here.

I mean, when you're hand waving away one of the premiere sources for medical mental health in the world as being "extremely politicized"... What more can I say? Pretty much every western mental care institution shares this view... You've clearly made up your own mind on this and it's counter to modern science...

 

[Katsura]

>ignores the DSM definition
>claims other people have an agenda
ISHYGDDT

 

[EviLore]

The APA now claims "traditional masculinity" -- including stoicism and competition -- is harmful to men and boys, who should be prescribed therapy to become feminist allies:

https://www.apa.org/about/policy/boys-men-practice-guidelines.pdf

Twelve Scholars Respond to the APA’s Guidance for Treating Men and Boys

Sydney. London. Toronto.

quillette.com

 

[llien]

I'll grant you that the percentage of women considering themselves "gamers" is clearly a minority of the overall gamer population. But they're still an increasingly large proportion of the market.

Women don't do things, mostly because they do not like it. (and so do men)
But then we have the "no no, if the outcome is not 50/50, it must be a broken (oppressive) system".
Oh, and they KNOW how to fix this "broken gaming system", in which women are oppressed, but somehow are overwhelmingly present in Sims, puzzle games, just hire that Anita character, who, you know, doesn't play games, but knows how to fix them, to achieve the 50/50.

 

[phil_t98]

The issue is that nobody ever really cared about the "007" thing. The series was about James Bond himself. Not the banner on his office door.

You can't have a black woman being James Bond himself though.

The fact that they had to get rid of the main character in order to shoehorn a different race and sex is the issue. It's the fact that the different skin color and sex of the actor is more important than the main character who is the main ingredient of the series since forever. It's the fact that they are changing the story/character based on the sex/skin color of the actor instead of choosing an actor based on the story/character.

I think that your post shows your massively offended but not read up on your subject matter. James Bond is not being replaced he retired at the end of the last movie, the new movie will see him enjoying retirement and something will happen to get him to go back into service, I suspect the new 007 will be killed off pretty quickly and leave the vacant role of 007 for James to refill.

if you watch Spectre he retires and its obvious they have to put that into the next story line, I think before your offended or think its SJW read up and inform yourself before looking a bit silly and being misinformed

 

[whatup]

Women don't do things, mostly because they do not like it. (and so do men)
But then we have the "no no, if the outcome is not 50/50, it must be a broken (oppressive) system".
Oh, and they KNOW how to fix this "broken gaming system", in which women are oppressed, but somehow are overwhelmingly present in Sims, puzzle games, just hire that Anita character, who, you know, doesn't play games, but knows how to fix them, to achieve the 50/50.

I agree with you insofar as men may be more predisposed to enjoying video games than women. And that likely has a biological component. And the absence of absolute parity in representation in front of and behind the controller is not necessarily indicative of bias. But there is no question that men have historically been gatekeepers of video gaming, that it has been an insular community that has often not been friendly to women (or change, obviously), and that the market has changed over time. It's hard to take your arguments about agendas seriously when you deny the latter.

 

[PleaseWaitStation4]

Race Baiter? explain

race baiting (uncountable)

1. The use of racially derisive language, actions, or other forms of communication in order to anger or intimidate or coerce.

 

[PleaseWaitStation4]

gender baiting (uncountable)

1. The enforcement of gender norms by disparaging or marginalizing those that violate them.

 

[phil_t98]

race baiting (uncountable)

1. The use of racially derisive language, actions, or other forms of communication in order to anger or intimidate or coerce.

By me?

 

[Katsura]

I agree with you insofar as men may be more predisposed to enjoying video games than women. And that likely has a biological component. And the absence of absolute parity in representation in front of and behind the controller is not necessarily indicative of bias. But there is no question that men have historically been gatekeepers of video gaming, that it has been an insular community that has often not been friendly to women (or change, obviously), and that the market has changed over time. It's hard to take your arguments about agendas seriously when you deny the latter.

Completely false. Women have always been able to go buy a computer or console to play games. Men weren't gatekeeping. That's a ridiculous claim with no evidence

 

[llien]

I agree with you insofar as men may be more predisposed to enjoying video games than women

90% of Sims players are women.

But there is no question that men have historically been gatekeepers of video gaming...

What?

that it has been an insular community that has often not been friendly to women

It's been single player gaming for me, up until Starcraft.
Heck, it still is, bar time spent in WoW with my wife.
And when Starcraft came, it was an online game against voiceless nicknames.
What were you saying again?

It's hard to take your arguments about agendas...

I haven't made a single argument about "agendas".
Are you ok?

 

[NickFire]

With forces amassing to convince the board that Stadia will somehow save us hundreds per month in game costs, I challenge everyone in this thread to put down their stones and ignore politics in games for a day or two.

There are much funnier things to argue over at the moment.

 

[johntown]

See the APA link above. The only people still pushing this idea so hard are people with an agenda.

I just don't agree with calling anyone who disagrees a Neo Nazi. Not everyone has an agenda who disagrees. I will admit that some people for sure do have an agenda but to lump everyone into that group is not fair.

 

[Lister]

Being transgender however does not in itself contribute to society.

What the fuck do you contribute to society? I say we need more gay people in this world and less people like you.

 

[Katsura]

What the fuck do you contribute to society? I say we need more gay people in this world and less people like you.

Thanks Cpt. Whataboutism!

 

[Dr. Claus]

Sad thing is I like Damiani and his work but I wont finance this.

I don't mind Damiani as a person, but he feels the need to always push his politics into shit. It gets really old.

 

[Mithos]

90% of Sims players are women.

Sounds like the developer need to change things in this game to make men want to play it more, 50/50 is the only acceptable ratio.

 

[Merlot]

Hmmm, tough topic.

Rather than saying "Games are invaded with SJW politics" i would rather ask:
"Are we okay with companies promoting it?"

Are we the old pricks who refuse to change and adapt to the new ideology, or is newer generation really doing the bad thing.


I personally don't care if main cast of characters is gay, trans, whatever, as long as it does not
force upon me that ideology (example being, do the gay thing or else you will have a bad ending or
even not progress trough the game). I feel like games right now are not forcing it upon you, just informing it's there.
No-one knows however how long will it last.

Humanity already had a similar thing. Not that far back in the past people were generally discriminative towards black people.
With time media slowly started to do similar thing as now is happening with LGBT, showing them in the good light, showing them
as good guys in the movies. Now days they are a normal part of our society. I don't know if it's good comparison or not. It just came
to my mind as i was typing this post out.

Although i feel what you mean. I've had it with Overwatch when they finally added more story to the game.
The comic was basically <Tell some story> Oh, btw, Soldier 76 is gay. It felt a little bit out of place but it doesn't really change my game-play.

As for it's impact for the future, idk.
I would rather have the future of humanity portrayed in Star-Trek, where we can put aside our differences and live together.
Rather than one i remember from Earth 2150, where we blow up our planet in a war


This post is more aimed for Food for Thought rather than answering OP.

 

[nkarafo]

I think that your post shows your massively offended but not read up on your subject matter. James Bond is not being replaced he retired at the end of the last movie, the new movie will see him enjoying retirement and something will happen to get him to go back into service, I suspect the new 007 will be killed off pretty quickly and leave the vacant role of 007 for James to refill.

if you watch Spectre he retires and its obvious they have to put that into the next story line, I think before your offended or think its SJW read up and inform yourself before looking a bit silly and being misinformed

I think you missed the point. I don't care if he was retired in the previous movie, in the new one he could return at the first few minutes. In a Bond movie i don't care about a different character except James Bond himself, doesn't matter if it's a black woman, a white woman or a white guy. I don't want to see a Bond movie about a Bond sidekick or replacement. The only reason they needed to make a Bond movie about someone other than Bond is to have the opportunity to virtue signal with a diverse hire, while using a big IP to ensure exposure and tickets. Otherwise they would just show Bond returning at the beginning of the movie and focus on him, just like all the other Bond movies. Or make a new IP with new characters. That's how it looks to me, i feel it's pretty transparent.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Being transgender however does not in itself contribute to society. Transgender people who contribute do so in spite of gender dysphoria, not because of it. We should not be celebrating mental illness. We should be looking for a cure. That should be obvious to anyone but sadly it is not

Instead our society feeds into these peoples delusions which not only does not help them but also prevents science from actually finding a cure. How can you get funding to find a cure if the alphabet people claim it's not a disease and you have full on SJW like the geki dude claiming anyone who points out scientific facts is an alt-right nazi? That's why it's harmful to spread the transgender agenda and that's why the word invasion was perfectly apt

Gender dysphoria and intersex are definitely "conditions," but I do not think they should be viewed with stigmas that you seem to be implying. Neither inherently prevents a person from living a meaningful life or contributing to society. No one should be compelled to receive any specific treatment, which is how I interpreted your "we should be looking for a cure" sentiment. Definitely reminds me of conversion therapy talk for gay people.

More research on the topic, of course, should be encouraged. Even if gender dysphoria is found to be a pure mental condition that is curable, no who should be forced into it. I'm not going to hate on anyone for choosing to emulate and live as the other gender as best they can. It's only when they start to try to bend society to accommodate them and begin making unreasonable demands that I take issue.

 

[Katsura]

Gender dysphoria and intersex are definitely "conditions," but I do not think they should be viewed with stigmas that you seem to be implying. Neither inherently prevents a person from living a meaningful life or contributing to society. No one should be compelled to receive any specific treatment, which is how I interpreted your "we should be looking for a cure" sentiment. Definitely reminds me of conversion therapy talk for gay people.

More research on the topic, of course, should be encouraged. Even if gender dysphoria is found to be a pure mental condition that is curable, no who should be forced into it. I'm not going to hate on anyone for choosing to emulate and live as the other gender as best they can. It's only when they start to try to bend society to accommodate them and begin making unreasonable demands that I take issue.

Then you're severely misinterpreting what i'm saying or i've failed to be clear. I'm not saying it's a mental illness to stigmatise anyone. I'm simply stating a fact. When i'm talking about a cure, i'm talking about medical research which could hopefully lead to medicine that would alleviate or even remove the symptoms. I don't hate transgenders, not at all. I do hate the current transgender movement because of what i've previously said. I also strongly disagree with trans being under the LGB umbrella because it has nothing in common with those. It's purely a political move in my opinion

As for the research, it will never happen in our current political climate because anyone wanting to do it would be labelled transphobic and probably ruin their careers. That's one of my major issues with the movement. In my opinion, it's actually hurting trans people. Both short term and long term

 

[Deleted member 17706]

It's purely a political move in my opinion

It absolutely is. Other than in the right to marry, there's very little overlap in interests even among gay, lesbian, and especially bi. Trans is in no way a natural fit with the sexual orientation groups (as disjointed as they are themselves as "groups") and their interests are often contradictory, in fact, as you see with all of this "TERF" business.

 

[Cactuarman]

So if TLOU2 comes out and sells extremely well. Would anyone admit that maybe the market has spoken? Would anyone not wanting politics in video games at least admit that maybe there is a sizable market for games like this?

Or is that when we double down on the government/shadowy organization/rich person (George Soros apparently)/or whatever else:

I don't think they care about my wallet I think they are funded by the government

Someone big is funding this people it's not a coincidence that movies series media schools everything's infested this isn't easy!

I'm a firm believer that if the free market didn't support these "political agendas" or whatever then we'd see far fewer "political" games (by the way, a massive amount of art is and has always been at least somewhat political). This is the one disconnect I can't seem to get past. These games seem to sell. So maybe if you hate The Last of Us, your taste is actually in the minority?

Or maybe it's just that GAF wants to have these same "SJW invasion" / "women in X game are ugly" threads every few days.

OP also brings up God of War. Have you played the latest game on the PS4? Seems pretty masculine and brutal to me.

Yeah but there isn't a sex mini-game so you know he might be gay or something...
/s

 

[Katsura]

So if TLOU2 comes out and sells extremely well. Would anyone admit that maybe the market has spoken? Would anyone not wanting politics in video games at least admit that maybe there is a sizable market for games like this?

Or is that when we double down on the government/shadowy organization/rich person (George Soros apparently)/or whatever else:





I'm a firm believer that if the free market didn't support these "political agendas" or whatever then we'd see far fewer "political" games (by the way, a massive amount of art is and has always been at least somewhat political). This is the one disconnect I can't seem to get past. These games seem to sell. So maybe if you hate The Last of Us, your taste is actually in the minority?

Or maybe it's just that GAF wants to have these same "SJW invasion" / "women in X game are ugly" threads every few days.



Yeah but there isn't a sex mini-game so you know he might be gay or something...
/s

That would depend on whether or not you could demonstrate that it would have sold less had they not put regressive politics in it

 

[Cactuarman]

That would depend on whether or not you could demonstrate that it would have sold less had they not put regressive politics in it

"I'd rather Ellie be a sexy lesbian but I guess I'll buy it anyway."

Do you think there is a large volume of purchasers making this concession? To the point where it muddies my argument?

Neither one of us can demonstrate either way how hypothetical versions of TLOU would impact sales, but let's explore your point: The Last of Us sells 17 million units (based on this Wikipedia article). How many units do you think it would have sold had there not been any "politics" in it? I know you can't prove anything, but I'm curious what you think.

 

[Katsura]

"I'd rather Ellie be a sexy lesbian but I guess I'll buy it anyway."

Do you think there is a large volume of purchasers making this concession? To the point where it muddies my argument?

Neither one of us can demonstrate either way how hypothetical versions of TLOU would impact sales, but let's explore your point: The Last of Us sells 17 million units (based on this Wikipedia article). How many units do you think it would have sold had there not been any "politics" in it? I know you can't prove anything, but I'm curious what you think.

I don't think the politics had any noticeable effect on the sales of TLOU, one way or the other

 

[Cactuarman]

I don't think the politics had any noticeable effect on the sales of TLOU, one way or the other

I guess I don't understand your original reply. My point was that there was a sizable market for video games with politics in them - a large enough one to support games like TLOU.

 

[InterMusketeer]

My point was that there was a sizable market for video games with politics in them - a large enough one to support games like TLOU.

We don't know if TLoU sold despite or because of its politics. TLoU is a big budget AAA Sony exclusive from a beloved studio, so it was probably going to get a lot of attention and sales regardless of its politics. I'd say the politics in the original base game at least weren't that overt, but that they're making advances in that field.

Besides, you could make this argument for any type of game with any kind of content. It means you couldn't criticize any trend or trope in games because apparently there's an audience to support it. "Yeah it's a shame companies are making nothing but shitty CoD clones, but apparently there's an audience for it!" "Too bad games are rife with DLC and microtransactions, but apparently there's enough people that buy into it, so what can we do?" "Yeah games are filled to the brim with casual sexism, racism and homophobia, but that's just what the people want!" Progressives didn't say this when feminists started criticizing video games for all their "harmful content" years ago either.