Games Journalism! Wainwright/Florence/Tomb Raider/Eurogamer/Libel Threats/Doritos

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McBradders

NeoGAF: my new HOME
As much as I love what this thread has done it is beginning to feel somewhat like the "witch hunt" that it was accused of prior. Not only has the thread been instrumental in discovering and confirming just how deep the rabbit hole is, but has also brought out several members of the press who have discussed and shared stories.

We've even started to see some positive action from sites such as VG247 and even Kotaku and yet it seems as if thats not good enough. Totillo's post has been over analysed, the VG247 code of ethics has been met with use as much scepticism as positivity and we're hounding Giant Bomb guys who have been almost painfully transparent since they launched.

As much as we are quite rightfully expecting from those who write for us, there is a point where this swell of positivity can turn sour and create a self fulfilling where these outlets stop listening altogether,
 
As much as I love what this thread has done it is beginning to feel somewhat like the "witch hunt" that it was accused of prior. Not only has the thread been instrumental in discovering and confirming just how deep the rabbit hole is, but has also brought out several members of the press who have discussed and shared stories.

We've even started to see some positive action from sites such as VG247 and even Kotaku and yet it seems as if thats not good enough. Totillo's post has been over analysed, the VG247 code of ethics has been met with use as much scepticism as positivity and we're hounding Giant Bomb guys who have been almost painfully transparent since they launched.

As much as we are quite rightfully expecting from those who write for us, there is a point where this swell of positivity can turn sour and create a self fulfilling where these outlets stop listening altogether,
Or alternatively, as soon as this thread dies down and the pressure comes off - its back to business as usual.

I think my scenario is the most likely. Unfortunately.
 
I think the bigger point is: why do this at all? What purpose would this white room review serve, precisely? Or more specifically, how would we be better served by this? Does it make it easier for us to line up contexts? Are we hunting for 'fairness' or 'objectivity' in reviews, and this would somehow allow us to reach it? I personally don't think that the entire baggage of influences, swag included, invalidates someone's opinion. The point is to try and understand the context of what you're reading; it's why you want personalities in the first place, because you can try, based on experience, to frame their opinions in a way you can parse.

The key is that essentially we're arguing that external stimuli influences people. Of course it does; that's a truism. It's why advertising exists. The point they're making is: if you think that we're being influenced to a degree in which you can't trust our opinions anymore, go someplace else.
If there were alternatives, I would go.

Personally, I wish there were a US equivalent of Eurogamer. Despite (or perhaps, because of) being ground zero for this shitstorm, they're by far the only site I really feel navigates the press/PR divide in a way I respect. And the fact that they published Rab Florence's incredibly scathing pieces (all 18 of them, not just the last one!) speaks volumes to their credibility. I haven't seen a US site that has done anything even remotely approaching that kind of work. Throw in the high-level feature work they do, reviews that I generally agree with, and the (mostly) believable work on Digital Foundry, they're light years ahead of any of the US sites.

If the UK gaming press is so "vastly different" from the situation in the US (as many US journalists continue to claim), then why hasn't the US gaming press produced a site with the same quality and ethical standards?

*cue smarmy jpeg proving Eurogamer's sliminess*
 
Yeah, we should brainstorm ideas on how to construct a system where the press don't have to play ball to get access to content. Because unless that happens I can't see any possibility of a legitimate critical media in games.
How do we put pressure on the publishers to stop this crap? This blacklisting stuff has to stop. This is 1940s and '50s Hollywood bullshit. If we require our journalists to be on the up and up, shouldn't publishers ALSO recognize their part in this? I understand that this is business as usual, but maybe if customers and journalists together put the pressure on...
 
This thread will eventually die, but it's up to us to keep making informed decisions about the media outlets and editorial content we follow or read. It's up to us as well to keep pushing for a higher standard in quality from the sites we visit and the writers whose work we read on a regular basis. As long as we demand better quality in a responsible, respectful and informed way, I'm pretty sure there will be more chances for our suggestions to be heard.
 
Not suggesting a stop, but the tone of the thread can be viewed as aggressive and unnecessarily coarse.
I suppose they could feel that way but then the massive amount of bad gaming journalism over the years may have taken its toll on patience and restraint when it comes to the way the games media tries to do juuuuuust enough to dampen the criticism.
 
Not suggesting a stop, but the tone of the thread can be viewed as aggressive and unnecessarily coarse.
Some good things have come out of this thread but it has been this aggressive against pretty much everything since it started which I don't think helps the message that the thread is trying to convey.

If there were alternatives, I would go.

Personally, I wish there were a US equivalent of Eurogamer. Despite (or perhaps, because of) being ground zero for this shitstorm, they're by far the only site I really feel navigates the press/PR divide in a way I respect. And the fact that they published Rab Florence's incredibly scathing pieces (all 18 of them, not just the last one!) speaks volumes to their credibility. I haven't seen a US site that has done anything even remotely approaching that kind of work. Throw in the high-level feature work they do, reviews that I generally agree with, and the (mostly) believable work on Digital Foundry, they're light years ahead of any of the US sites.

If the UK gaming press is so "vastly different" from the situation here in the US (as many US journalists continue to claim), then why hasn't the US gaming press produced a site with the same quality and ethical standards?

*cue smarmy jpeg proving Eurogamer's sliminess*
Eurogamer and Edge have about as much credibility as IGN or something like that which to me says very little credibility. I think it hurts credibility when they are the ones held up.
 

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
You know what we should do? A bunch of us should get together and create our own video games journalism website, and teach those fatcats at Eurogamer and IGN
and neogaf
how you get shit DONE, son.
I was totally serious about this, btw. I wanna get some of the Jeff Gerstmann money, yo!
 
Some good things have come out of this thread but it has been this aggressive against pretty much everything since it started which I don't think helps the message that the thread is trying to convey.
There was a brief sweet spot between pages 60 and 100 or so when a lot of information was coming in and people were rapidly assembling a "case." But, yeah, it took a nasty turn somewhere and became petty.
 

Y2Kev

TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009
Here's why Assassin's Creed 3™ is the best game since the Mountain Dew game for Apple iOS™ and Android™.

Number 1, it is awesome and epic.

Number 2, it there is exclusive DLC to continue the awesome and epic story.

Number 3, the companion app for iOS/Android is awesome, and you can build up your multiplayer XP using it before the game even comes out.*

*Double XP available in specially marked cases of MTN DEW
 
Unless something else happens that's on par with the original incident the topic is bound to cool down. There's no point retreading the same ground in this thread.

I'm happy it blew up in the first place. The people who have followed the story might pay more attention going forward, press included. That's all you can realistically ask for, anyway.
 
Here's why Assassin's Creed 3™ is the best game since the Mountain Dew game for Apple iOS™ and Android™.

Number 1, it is awesome and epic.

Number 2, it there is exclusive DLC to continue the awesome and epic story.

Number 3, the companion app for iOS/Android is awesome, and you can build up your multiplayer XP using it before the game even comes out.*

*Double XP available in specially marked cases of MTN DEW
I rate this post
/
due the lack of thanking to the press and partners for making the game win tons of E3 awards.
 
Unless something else happens that's on par with the original incident the topic is bound to cool down. There's no point retreading the same ground in this thread.

I'm happy it blew up in the first place. The people who have followed the story might pay more attention going forward, press included. That's all you can realistically ask for, anyway.
My F5 finger thanks you.
 

alr1ght

bish gets all the credit :)

Here's why Assassin's Creed 3™ is the best game since the Mountain Dew game for Apple iOS™ and Android™.

Number 1, it is awesome and epic.

Number 2, it there is exclusive DLC to continue the awesome and epic story.

Number 3, the companion app for iOS/Android is awesome, and you can build up your multiplayer XP using it before the game even comes out.*

*Double XP available in specially marked cases of MTN DEW


send me some MTNDEW™ and I'll give you another head.
 
Earlier in the thread, Shane Bettenhausen was mentioned in what could be seen as his questionable 'journalistic' actions in light of his admitted love of all things Sony.

While I don't think Shane was just a shill angling for a job with Sony, he can also be an example of a 'games journalist,' with perhaps the best intentions, 'playing ball' with PR.

Here's a clip from 1UP Yours, 4/4/2008, where Shawn Elliott busts Shane for literally following the Konami PR script following his special trip to Japan to play MGS4.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zddwS815r1k&feature=youtu.be
Thanks for posting this. Sean Elliot......



I was a Sean Elliot hater. I am such a dumbass :p
 
It's really insane how this whole debacle has put a bunch of people on edge.
Its only because its stuff everyone has thought/worried about before; the original article wasn't even that controversial, its been peoples reactions since thats caused most of the problems.

Should put some orange Dorito crumps around his mouth
It all gets too small; tried a bowl head though instead of a glass though. Works 'okay', but not too clear.

 
Its only because its stuff everyone has thought/worried about before; the original article wasn't even that controversial, its been peoples reactions since thats caused most of the problems.
So true. Had Lauren Wainwright a bit more restraint or better advice when she thought of reacting to the article and this would be a small blip in the year news. It would be business as usual in a matter of a few days, if that.
 
There has been some amazingly good and deep conversation about issues related to PR, marketing and games media. I hope anyone coming to this thread does not judge it by the last few pages. At the very least, check the OP and it's updated list.
 
I think rather specifically because it is an achievable worthwhile goal that it should be a focus. Many games media writers have overtly said themselves that it is not a necessary thing.

And it isn't even that unusual. It would be standard in most forms of media as has been discussed pretty consistently throughout this thread.How about just calling the companies and telling them "Do not send us promotional material anymore. Review copies only, please."
And if they continue to do it, yes, do not accept the packages when they are delivered.


I am open to hearing about what can and can't be done from people inside the industry. But I outright reject the idea that they have to accept all that shit.
The bolded seems obvious. I wonder why it's not done. Especially when there are complaints of the promo items taking up office space and are a hassle/chore to dispose. And no, I'm not trying to be coy by implying that it's not done because they're shady scumbag journalists or whatever.
 
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