Games Journalism! Wainwright/Florence/Tomb Raider/Eurogamer/Libel Threats/Doritos

[SkyandSun]

Haha, Ian Miles is funny. Used to post crazy, trolling stuff on RPG Codex. Huge flamewars ensued.

 

[Fistwell]

what does that even mean?

I... erh... yeah... You, know, kind of a.. standalone complex type thing? Sorta?

 

[cRIPticon]

It's not unusual for them not to review a game anyway, so I don't think people need to jump to conclusions about it. They never did a review for Torchlight II even though they praised it quite a lot and seemingly have a good relationship with the Runic guys who brought in the game for them to show on a few occasions.

This.

there shouldnt be friendships between them though, its ridiculous. Hunter S Thompson didn't go ahng with the fukin horse jockeys after he covered horse races

You know, it IS possible to be friends with those whose work you critique professionally.

 

[Parakeetman]

I know and that's even scarier.

I remember that guy. He was the one complaining about black people being in africa in RE4. (yes I know thats not exactly what he was going on about, but the simple breakdown was that)

 

[Kinyou]

His last article for Eurogamer.

Again, bottom-to-top cos I can't be arsed to edit.

He got fired for that article? lol I, what?

 

[TheSeks]

If Ikuu's copy of the article is right, it isn't that scathing. It only names three journalists and mostly tears into Knightly simply because it's right: He's nothing more a shrill now a days. The last time he did "journalism" is that Reggie Wii2 interview that was maybe borderline journalism.

 

[Zeliard]

So people have been complaining about gaming journalism = paid promotion for years, why has this suddenly blown up? Robert Florence's resignation? The hilariously pathetic Keighley pic?

The hilarious Keighley pic + the hilariously Streisand-affected Lauren Wainwright + the Eurogamer editor article omissions + the Rab Florence fed-up resignation + the John Walker unbridled and deserved chastising of his industry + the constant passive-aggressive back-and-forth Twitter battles between different parties

Just a perfect storm of hilarity, righteousness, wretchedness, and general Twitter-inflamed idiocy.

 

[criesofthepast]

there shouldnt be friendships between them though, its ridiculous. Hunter S Thompson didn't go ahng with the fukin horse jockeys after he covered horse races

I love you, balo. Bros 4 lyfe.

 

[Curufinwe]

lol, Are you seriously trying to undermine them by quantifying their amount of "corruption"?

They were all extremely biased and were rewarded with jobs in the things they were biased for. It's as simple as that.

Theres the case you just mentioned, where he got rewarded with a job at Sony.

So are we just pretending that he didn't work at Ignition for years doing business development before going to Sony to do business development after Ignition went under?

 

[Einbroch]

I know. What is this, 2006? It's Mtn Dew and Hot Cheetos now.

The hot ones are gross.

The jalapeño ones in the bag with the green on it? Sinfully delicious.

 

[Barbacoatl]

The industry is a joke.

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

I know of 5 good clinics in your area let's go get help for you son it's not too late!

If you're having complex issues, go get help for me, son.
I got 99 issues, but standalone ain't one!

 

[SolidSnakex]

He got fired for that article? lol I, what?

No, I think the general feeling is that he stepped down on his own.

 

[Hot Coldman]

He got fired for that article? lol I, what?

It got ameneded, and he's not interested in having his words messed with. If he's gonna write for Eurogamer, they're gonna print his words- no more, no less.

That's the way I saw it, anyway.

 

[More Fun To Compute]

Haha, Ian Miles is funny. Used to post crazy, trolling stuff on RPG Codex. Huge flamewars ensued.

To be well known for saying stupid things that drive people crazy is something, for sure.

 

[PsychoRaven]

So I just read the unedited article posted here and damn good article. I've not heard of this guy before but I certainly like his style. The industry is a joke and it's because of shit like this. Companies should not be handing out free consoles, games, trips, etc to journalists and they should have the self respect and integrity to refuse them if these companies do that. Hopefully this guy starts his own site or finds work at one that will have some balls not to cower to demands of someone who obviously has no integrity.

 

[Vice]

Occam's razor again. Why are you so convinced that Dance Central 3 is a bad product? Have you played Dance Central 3?

I never said it was a bad product. What i said was, that not covering/reviewing something can be a form of bias.

 

[Victrix]

Side note: Twitter is the worst fucking medium for meaningful conversations, and pastes into forums about as well as shitty chat logs

 

[marrec]

Side note: Twitter is the worst fucking medium for meaningful conversations, and pastes into forums about as well as shitty chat logs

Better than Reddit at least.

 

[IdreamofHIME]

What?

Nice attempt at deflection.
.

lol, deflection? What are you talking about? I think Rab Florence is one the best guys in the industry and support him 100%

Sounds like youre deflecting more bud.

 

[Erasus]

I.. I dont know what to say. This guy tries to investigate the strong relationship between PR and their articles. How maybe it unethical to get gifts from publishers, and citing twitter convos. And he gets attacked by other journalists?? That does not make his point all valid but it does stregthen it when they cant argue against it.

Then again MoHWarfighter got SLAMMED in the press. Maybe there is some integrity left?

Also lol @ the hellgate thing. 5 years ago wow, such long time ago (also what did he do??)

 

[Gomu Gomu]

He got fired for that article? lol I, what?

Eurogamer didn't have his back, so he left.

 

[Durante]

This was an entertaining read.

Side note: Twitter is the worst fucking medium for meaningful conversations, and pastes into forums about as well as shitty chat logs

No, chat logs paste better.

 

[kodt]

Yeah, when will we get some hard hitting, real investigative journalism in the games industry. How dare they pose with a Doritos bag, how can we take them seriously when they try to win a PS3 by tweeting a hashtag? All that integrity they had, just ruined.

 

[Kinyou]

No, I think the general feeling is that he stepped down on his own.

It got ameneded, and he's not interested in having his words messed with. If he's gonna write for Eurogamer, they're gonna print his words- no more, no less.

That's the way I saw it, anyway.

Ah yeah, now I get it. Makes a little more sense.

 

[Lancehead]

This seems like a good place to post this:

 

[VeryGooster]

Forbes' Erik Kain did a write-up about the Eurogamer situation and tries to bring an understanding to the possible conflict of interest and perception of advertising dollars:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2012/10/25/video-game-journalist-robert-florence-leaves-eurogamer-after-libel-complaints/

I remember the guy did some write-ups trying to give perspective to people's frustrations with ME3 and really loves Dark Souls.

 

[DCharlie]

I've not heard of this guy before but I certainly like his style

Rab is one of the funniest and most genuinely enthusiastic gamers out there. I can count on about 4 fingers the people whose opinion i'd 100% trust on gaming and he's one of them.

Also obviously was part of giving us the incredible Consolevania :

NOT SAFE FOR WORK NOT SAFE FOR WORK NOT SAFE FOR WORK NOT SAFE FOR WORK
NOT SAFE FOR WORK NOT SAFE FOR WORK NOT SAFE FOR WORK NOT SAFE FOR WORK
NSFW NSFW NSFW NSFW NSFW NSFW NSFW NSFW NSFW NSFW NSFW NSFW NSFW NSFW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWW99J0-cZc

NSFW NSFW NSFW NSFW NSFW NSFW NSFW NSFW NSFW NSFW NSFW NSFW NSFW NSFW
NOT SAFE FOR WORK NOT SAFE FOR WORK NOT SAFE FOR WORK NOT SAFE FOR WORK
NOT SAFE FOR WORK NOT SAFE FOR WORK NOT SAFE FOR WORK NOT SAFE FOR WORK

 

[GolazoDan]

When the world goes to hell we'll always have Tricky Scoopz.

 

[jediyoshi]

Better than Reddit at least.

No, Twitter has a severe character limit that restricts comments and has people reducing statements down.

 

[FStop7]

He also posted a list of people who used the hashtag to win the PS3

http://storify.com/andybeta/gmadefiance

"Could do with another PS3 - only own three #GMADEFIANCE #sellout"

I need to vomit.

It violated the cardinal rule of game journalists. That is it called out the BS actions/words of a 'journalist' without refocusing the issue to make it look like the actions of the journalist were kosher.

As usual the journalists have started to circle their wagons to defend themselves from the totally biased and uninformed 'forum posters' and non-conforming journalists. Though this time they can't use public twitter to ego-stroke each other and arrogantly dismiss all criticism as irrelevant and uninformed. The obvious response is really only for when they do something really stupid like mistake a Photoshop for upcoming game confirmation.

This phenomena is basically a form of "omerta".

 

[Randdalf]

If Ikuu's copy of the article is right, it isn't that scathing. It only names three journalists and mostly tears into Knightly simply because it's right: He's nothing more a shrill now a days. The last time he did "journalism" is that Reggie Wii2 interview that was maybe borderline journalism.

I used to think he was just that but Keighley has done a fantastic job of documenting the last day of development of multiple (primarily Valve) projects and interviewing those involved. It's fascinating stuff, you should really check out Portal 2: The Final Hours on Steam.

 

[Trigger]

The woman who was called out for her TR tweets is pretty pathetic. She should have defended her credibility, but it seems obvious she has none.

Also: Someone also stated this, but it's funny that a rather innocuous image of Geoff with Doritas helped start this chain of events.

 

[Quadraphonic]

So I just read the unedited article posted here and damn good article. I've not heard of this guy before but I certainly like his style. The industry is a joke and it's because of shit like this. Companies should not be handing out free consoles, games, trips, etc to journalists and they should have the self respect and integrity to refuse them if these companies do that. Hopefully this guy starts his own site or finds work at one that will have some balls not to cower to demands of someone who obviously has no integrity.

PR companies CONTROL news outlets.

If one writer steps down, there's 600 more kids out there willing to take his place for a free visit to see GTA V in person in exchange for his integrity. Look at The Tester.

Until the companies that hire these writers have integrity and enforce standards, it'll never change.

 

[marrec]

I'm really disappointed in Eurogamer for amending the article. I understand that they might have had to spend a bit of money to defend someone who might not have been very important to them... but there has to be a line of integrity that you draw for yourself and that line should be well before you cower to the threat of a lawsuit because someone factually quoted someone else with a bit of an opinion below that quote.

Simon Singh is respected for a reason, and while writing about video games may never be as important as what Simon Singh writes about, it definitely will never be taken seriously if this kind of crap keeps happening.

 

[dark10x]

Wow, I had no idea it blew up this much.

If people are reacting so harshly about the article it makes me wonder if the people he are addressing are in denial?

The lawsuit bullshit is particularly frustrating. Shame on Lauren Wainwright for pulling the lawsuit card.

She doesn't the campaign of hate, though. Was her Twitter always locked for all but confirmed followers, though? If not, that seems like a red flag to me that she has some issues (though after this I COULD understand locking it for a bit)

 

[see5harp]

I never said it was a bad product. What i said was, that not covering/reviewing something can be a form of bias.

You agreed with the guy spouting conspiracy theories about why they weren't reviewing the game, which is entirely based on the assumption that dance central 3 would get a negative score-presumably beecause the game was broken or bad. They covered the game plenty with a quick look, coverage on multiple podcasts, etc.

 

[Kinyou]

Has Goeff Keighley responded to this ? Seems like he's the only one who didn't care much even though he's the most prominent figure in that article.

 

[TheGreatDivide]

RIP Mario.

 

[funkystudent]

I really hope this gives Rob some press and another (hopefully non UK) website makes him an offer to continue writing features for them.


I can not support the stupid crap some corners of the internet is doing with regards to Lauren Wainwright.

Don't support her by avoid her articles and any website that is associated with her. Spread the word about what has happened. Send a message that way.

But Jesus Christ stop embarrassing yourself internet.



And it Im also a bit conflicted about how to feel about EG's reaction to just basically fire the guy. On the one had UK liable laws are FUCKED and even a small chance of a case would scare most off. I think they should have edited the feature and just leaved it like that. Give the guy a slap on the arm but dont kick him out the door.....

 

[Vice]

You agreed with the guy spouting conspiracy theories about why they weren't reviewing the game, which is entirely based on the assumption that dance central 3 would get a negative score-presumably beecause the game was broken or bad. They covered the game plenty with a quick look, coverage on multiple podcasts, etc.

I never agreed with him about DC3 being bad. I simply said that lack of coverage/a review can be a way to show bias.

 

[Dresden]

Has Goeff Keighley responded to this ? Seems like he's the only one who didn't care much even though he's the most prominent figure in that article.

He might have the good sense to hold off and ignore it.

 

[Amir0x]

Such an embarrassing state "games journalism" has arrived at.

 

[Alextended]

I scrolled down the page but didn't see a numerical score, this article clearly fails.

Anyway.

Nice little piece. It's a bit obnoxious to critique colleagues, but the point made is real.

 

[marrec]

And it Im also a bit conflicted about how to feel about EG's reaction to just basically fire the guy. On the one had UK liable laws are FUCKED and even a small chance of a case would scare most off. I think they should have edited the feature and just leaved it like that. Give the guy a slap on the arm but dont kick him out the door.....

He stepped down, they didn't fire him.

That doesn't make what Eurogamer did any better though. Bending to the will of a scorned Journalist who cannot defend her integrity with words and so resorts to litigation is fucking low.

 

[EmmanuelMunoz]

Has Goeff Keighley responded to this ? Seems like he's the only one who didn't care much even though he's the most prominent figure in that article.

He probably figures that if he staying out of it is the best approach.

 

[Dibbz]

That Lauren woman writes for the Sun? That alone sets off alarm bells.

The wheels in the PR machines spun by big game publishers keep on spinning.

I really need to start supporting true gaming journalists. I'll follow Rab if he ventures back into gaming. Shame I didn't before this whole mess because he seems like he really loves writing and dissecting games.

 

[Gomu Gomu]

Has Goeff Keighley responded to this ? Seems like he's the only one who didn't care much even though he's the most prominent figure in that article.

http://twitter.com/geoffkeighley/status/261534965785841665

 

[see5harp]

I never agreed with him about DC3 being bad. I simply said that lack of coverage/a review can be a way to show bias.

My fault, I read back and yea I agree that it is possible to show bias by not covering something. That guy is now banned.

 

[hammster]

I don't like Geoff Keighley but staying quiet is a smart strategy.