Games Journalism! Wainwright/Florence/Tomb Raider/Eurogamer/Libel Threats/Doritos

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gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
Hah, I think the fact that no writer at IGN, GS, GB, GI or any other major gamin website has touched this story is very telling.
It's not telling - it's tedius.

There are plenty of us talking about it on twitter if you want unofficial quotes - or read our posts in this very thread. Most of us have been preaching to the choir about this stuff for years. I'm not going to waste my time writing an article about this when others have said what needed to be said far more eloquently. Especially when I could be playing Hotline: Miami
 
Cut them some slack. They probably had a very busy day yesterday deleting tweets and altering CVs.
Wouldn't be surprised to see Klepek doing some editorial about it, he at least implied writing up on it, on twitter saying something along the lines of "Don't have much to say right now, it's gross".
 
It's not telling - it's tedius.

There are plenty of us talking about it on twitter if you want unofficial quotes - or read our posts in this very thread. Most of us have been preaching to the choir about this stuff for years. I'm not going to waste my time writing an article about this when others have said what needed to be said far more eloquently. Especially when I could be playing Hotline: Miami
But see, this is the thing. What will raise more awareness of the issue - journalists talking, mostly amongst themselves, on Twitter, or writing an article about it on a high-traffic website like Gamespot? I'm willing to bet it'll be the latter. I don't see how it'd be a waste of time either, the issue is one that needs discussing, especially if as you say it's been talked about for years - highlight it, raise awareness.
 
As said on the last page, it is very telling that the 'major' gaming outlets that reach more users than GAF does have chosen not to cover this story.

What makes me even sadder is that nothing will change. This will be hastily forgotten in a few days (or a few weeks) and NOTHING will change. Why? Because anyone that has any influence will not say anything, will keep quiet and continue to make PR happy.

Even Kotaku hasn't said anything and didn't they once stand up against some PR guys (at Sony was it?) and published some e-mails between them however they have kept quiet on this situation.

Nothing will change is the best way to sum up the 'outcome' of this stuff.
 

McBradders

NeoGAF: my new HOME
It's not telling - it's tedius.

There are plenty of us talking about it on twitter if you want unofficial quotes - or read our posts in this very thread. Most of us have been preaching to the choir about this stuff for years. I'm not going to waste my time writing an article about this when others have said what needed to be said far more eloquently. Especially when I could be playing Hotline: Miami
Sorry, but pretending this issue doesn't exist where it matters and where it is visible (you know, on your website) is hiding the same as hiding it.

"Oh but we're discussing it on Twitter" is not a defense.

It further cements the wolfpack mentality Rab was bringing to light in the first place.

Tedious indeed.
 
It's not telling - it's tedius.

There are plenty of us talking about it on twitter if you want unofficial quotes - or read our posts in this very thread. Most of us have been preaching to the choir about this stuff for years. I'm not going to waste my time writing an article about this when others have said what needed to be said far more eloquently. Especially when I could be playing Hotline: Miami
People do love a scandal, and this is one of those. Shit, you could end up winning the gaming industry's first Pulitzer. Go all Serpico up on that shit. We believe in you, man.
 
There needs to be some sort of industry wide crash (at least that of AAA model) for there to be any chance of media outlets being free from publishers influence.

People do love a scandal, and this is one of those. Shit, you could end up winning the gaming industry's first Pulitzer. Go all Serpico up on that shit. We believe in you, man.
Or people can talk about the underlying issues that lead up to that scandal.
 

D4Danger

Unconfirmed Member
So it turns out people are getting free shit for their ridiculous OTs? I can't say I'm surprised. Most of them look like they came from the PR department anyway.
 
But see, this is the thing. What will raise more awareness of the issue - journalists talking, mostly amongst themselves, on Twitter, or writing an article about it on a high-traffic website like Gamespot? I'm willing to bet it'll be the latter. I don't see how it'd be a waste of time either, the issue is one that needs discussing, especially if as you say it's been talked about for years - highlight it, raise awareness.
Sorry, but pretending this issue doesn't exist where it matters and where it is visible (you know, on your website) is hiding the same as hiding it.

"Oh but we're discussing it on Twitter" is not a defense.

It further cements the wolfpack mentality Rab was bringing to light in the first place.

Tedious indeed.
It's lose-lose mate. 99% of our audience don't give a crap about this stuff. Plus, it's not gaming news. That's why Jon Walker wrote is excellent peice (which I fully agree with) on his personal blog. It's friggin late October. If this happened in June and we were all sitting on our hands, perhaps a few more blogs would go up - but write now most of us are too busy trying to get through the busiest part of the year.

I've said some pretty candid things on twitter and on here, and I have no problem honestly answering questions on the matter. I may post something about it in the future - but the folks who act like children in our industry react a lot more to internet fury than blog posts from their peers. They certainly never listened to our vocal critisisms before.

I'm sure certain websites (those who's hands have been muddied by this whole affair) are telling their staff to keep shut - but don't paint us all with the same brush. Some of us make very sure to act properly, and have been publically vocal about it with everyone on twitter. You don't get much more open than that mate.
 
It's not telling - it's tedius.

There are plenty of us talking about it on twitter if you want unofficial quotes - or read our posts in this very thread. Most of us have been preaching to the choir about this stuff for years. I'm not going to waste my time writing an article about this when others have said what needed to be said far more eloquently. Especially when I could be playing Hotline: Miami
This is an utterly ridiculous rationalization, and game "journalists" like yourself who refuse to report on the issue where it's most visible are reinforcing the problem.

smfh...
 

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
There needs to be some sort of industry wide crash (at least that of AAA model) for there to be any chance of media outlets being free from publishers influence.



Or people can talk about the underlying issues that lead up to that scandal.
I think the only way it can happen is if readers start exclusively funding the writers covering games.

At the moment the money trail in 'games journalism' predominantly leads back to games publishers. They treat games journalism as an extension of their marketing dept, and unfortunately there are writers who get their purpose confused, and who are flattered to be a cog in that machine or who feel they are indebted to games publishers. In fact it looks like some rookie writers have their position as a writer advanced by publishers (by way of exclusive access etc.) only to then feel they have to support the publisher in turn (see: Laura Wainwright, 'I love you Korina!' etc.)

I mean, think about that. Games publishers are effectively 'planting' drones among new generations of writers by helping them along their career paths.

Actually makes me think of a site like Polygon...with so many established names, they could have broken out and tried an alternative funding method.
 

McBradders

NeoGAF: my new HOME
It's loose-loose mate. 99% of our audience don't give a crap about this stuff. Plus, it's not gaming news. That's why Jon Walker wrote is excellent peice (which I fully agree with) on his personal blog. It's friggin late October. If this happened in June and we were all sitting on our hands, perhaps a few more blogs would go up - but write now many

I've said some pretty candid things on twitter and on here, and I have no problem honestly answering questions on the matter. I may post something about it in the future - but the folks who act like children in our industry react a lot more to internet fury than blog posts from their peers. They certainly never listened to our vocal critisisms before.

I'm sure certain websites (those who's hands have been muddied by this whole affair) are telling their staff to keep shut - but don't paint us all with the same brush. Some of us make very sure to act properly, and have been publically vocal about it with everyone on twitter. You don't get much more open than that mate.
Why don't they? Because they aren't exposed to it. Whose fault is that?

Again, I'm not buying the Twitter excuse. I can certainly understand if your editor is all like "Nope, not on my watch". If that's the case then silence is probably the best reaction rather than "well we're talking about it on Twitter". That's not best serving your audience or yourself/yourselves.

Sorry, I don't mean to take this out on you specifically, but you're the only one here posting in response/defense/whatever.
 
This is an utterly ridiculous rationalization, and game "journalists" like yourself who refuse to report on the issue where it's most visible are reinforcing the problem.

smfh...
He is not refusing to report on the issue, he just thinks that the sites to which he writes for are not the place to report this. And furthermore the decision to publish that report piece wouldn't be his to make, that's why Walker published his piece on his personal blog and not Rock Paper Shotgun.
 
Or people can talk about the underlying issues that lead up to that scandal.
Well, yeah. Like I've said before, the whole Wainright thing was an isolated incident. I'm not even really talking about that. Gamers deserve to know that the critics they trust aren't being influenced by publishers. That's like the bare minimum standard of credibility we give to critics of any other entertainment medium - yet gaming equipment and software is WAY more expensive for the end user.
 
Hah, I think the fact that no writer at IGN, GS, GB, GI or any other major gamin website has touched this story is very telling. I have absolutily no respect to any of them right now. And I'm not of the "HATE EVERYTHING & EVERYONE POPULAR" crowd. Heck, I even love Giant bomb. But what little respect I had for the writers has now vanished.

To sell you ethical integrity as a writer and self proclaimed game journalist and not write anything on the subject because you don't want PR to be mad at you and not send you free shit and make you travel for basically no cost, is enough reason for me to not respect you or your work.
And some of the sites that have written about it have taken the tack that journalists are simply "fans" of the company. If it were just fandom, that wouldn't be a problem.
 
It's lose-lose mate. 99% of our audience don't give a crap about this stuff. Plus, it's not gaming news. That's why Jon Walker wrote is excellent peice (which I fully agree with) on his personal blog. It's friggin late October. If this happened in June and we were all sitting on our hands, perhaps a few more blogs would go up - but write now most of us are too busy trying to get through the busiest part of the year.

I've said some pretty candid things on twitter and on here, and I have no problem honestly answering questions on the matter. I may post something about it in the future - but the folks who act like children in our industry react a lot more to internet fury than blog posts from their peers. They certainly never listened to our vocal critisisms before.

I'm sure certain websites (those who's hands have been muddied by this whole affair) are telling their staff to keep shut - but don't paint us all with the same brush. Some of us make very sure to act properly, and have been publically vocal about it with everyone on twitter. You don't get much more open than that mate.
I understand what you're saying, but I still think the "99% of our audience don't give a crap" thing is untested if there aren't articles on high traffic sites. If one was posted, maybe they would. If they never read about it, because the issue is confined to personal blogs which don't get as much traffic, or isolated to Twitter, then they won't give a crap, because they haven't been educated about it. Education is the first step. As soon as people learn about it, they'll care.

I've been gaming since I can remember, but years ago, did I care about stuff like this? Probably not, I don't remember doing anyway. That was solely because I wasn't aware of the issue - I was probably too young for a start. Games to me back then were just that, I didn't have an awareness of the industry and surrounding topics until I got older and started reading about it.

Now I know about it, I care. I'm guessing it'd be the same for most people. Educate them and they'll start taking an interest in the issue.
 
Why don't they? Because they aren't exposed to it. Whose fault is that?

Again, I'm not buying the Twitter excuse. I can certainly understand if your editor is all like "Nope, not on my watch". If that's the case then silence is probably the best reaction rather than "well we're talking about it on Twitter". That's not best serving your audience or yourself/yourselves.

Sorry, I don't mean to take this out on you specifically, but you're the only one here posting in response/defense/whatever.
No it's fine, I've offered myself up. But c'mon mate. Websites don't tell audiences what to be interested in. We often post stories that come from the periphery of gaming - or editorials that talk about areas most don't consider - but if we were to post a news piece about this you'd be happy but 500 other folks would critisise GameSpot for hopping on the bandwagon. "Oooh you weren't being so honest when Kane and Lynch came out!". But neither is the reason we haven't written anything about it (yet - I can't speak for our overseas offices). We're not writing anything about it because it doesn't serve our audience.

I'm fortunate enough to work for a publication that allows me to talk candidly about this stuff on social media. That's why I work for GameSpot. We are not part of a "wolf pack" that tries to stifle conversation about issues important to our industry. If there was I wouldn't be talking about it all.

I honestly don't know what youre talking about. You'd wish we didn't talk about it all or posted long-form editorials on it? But nothing in between? Seems pretty unreasonable.
 
I understand what you're saying, but I still think the "99% of our audience don't give a crap" thing is untested if there aren't articles on high traffic sites. If one was posted, maybe they would. If they never read about it, because the issue is confined to personal blogs which don't get as much traffic, or isolated to Twitter, then they won't give a crap, because they haven't been educated about it. Education is the first step. As soon as people learn about it, they'll care.

I've been gaming since I can remember, but years ago, did I care about stuff like this? Probably not, I don't remember doing anyway. That was solely because I wasn't aware of the issue - I was probably too young for a start. Games to me back then were just that, I didn't have an awareness of the industry and surrounding topics until I got older and started reading about it.

Now I know about it, I care. I'm guessing it'd be the same for most people. Educate them and they'll start taking an interest in the issue.
Great post and the second para/last bit is pretty much the same for me.
 
He is not refusing to report on the issue, he just thinks that the sites to which he writes for are not the place to report this.
He is refusing to report on it, or did you not see the paragraph where he said twitter was enough?

. And furthermore the decision to publish that report piece wouldn't be his to make, that's why Walker published his piece on his personal blog and not Rock Paper Shotgun.
I think Walker should have put it on RPS, personally. Game journalists are essentially brushing this under the rug (whether that is their intention or not) by discussing this in the corners of the internet rather than in the headlines, which is where it needs to be.

99% of our audience don't give a crap about this stuff.
Wow.

I don't even know what to say to this, other than this entire situation has really drained every ounce of faith I had in the gaming media.
 
No it's fine, I've offered myself up. But c'mon mate. Websites don't tell audiences what to be interested in. We often post stories that come from the periphery of gaming - or editorials that talk about areas most don't consider - but if we were to post a news piece about this you'd be happy but 500 other folks would critisise GameSpot for hopping on the bandwagon. "Oooh you weren't being so honest when Kane and Lynch came out!".
This doesn't make any sense. Getting out ahead of other websites on this would lend you more credibility, and perhaps go some way toward repairing that image.
 
It's lose-lose mate. 99% of our audience don't give a crap about this stuff. Plus, it's not gaming news. That's why Jon Walker wrote is excellent peice (which I fully agree with) on his personal blog. It's friggin late October. If this happened in June and we were all sitting on our hands, perhaps a few more blogs would go up - but write now most of us are too busy trying to get through the busiest part of the year.
You don't think people care that many involved are encouraging the spending of money on games that the reviews/coverage have been bought? You sir, need to think.
 
This doesn't make any sense. Getting out ahead of other websites on this would lend you more credibility, and perhaps go some way toward repairing that image.
You'd be surprised mate! Just look at the responces to this thread, it's tough to post anything as a games press and not have folks misinterprit it. And I'm fine with that, we need to be held to a higher standard.

I'm sure come the weekend a few more large sites will chime in on it. Perhaps we will. But I won't be writing it - I work in video. All my brain can handle is tweets and the odd post of GAF.
 
He is refusing to report on it, or did you not see the paragraph where he said twitter was enough?



I think Walker should have put it on RPS, personally. Game journalists are essentially brushing this under the rug (whether that is their intention or not) by discussing this in the corners of the internet rather than in the headlines, which is where it needs to be.



Wow.

I don't even know what to say to this, other than this entire situation has really drained every ounce of faith I had in the gaming media.
That kind of report should be an op ed or an editorial. How could something of that sort be framed on IGN, GameSpot, GiantBomb or Game Informer? Can you imagine the dissonance reading the first page of any of those sites with that kind of article published? And I'm not being cynical about this "Yeah! How could they publish that! They suck from the same teat.". It's more of an audience issue. Who would they be writing for if they published that kind of article?

edit: Rock Paper Shotgun, Kotaku, Polygon I could see writing about this though. For different reasons each.
 
To be fair, you might want to give some other sites more time to respond with opinion pieces because this thing developed crazy fast.
Opinion pieces? The news itself needs to be plastered all over the place. The fact that you need to browse gaf, twitter, or some other gaming forum somewhere on the internet to know about this is reprehensible.

That kind of report should be an op ed or an editorial
Not necessarily. Have we become so jaded at modern, blog-style news postings that a genuine report of an important situation in the industry is unfathomable?

How could something of that sort be framed on IGN, GameSpot, GiantBomb or Game Informer?
I'm no journalist, but I find it hard to believe a real one couldn't figure out how to properly frame an article header on this particular issue.

Can you imagine the dissonance reading the first page of any of those sites with that kind of article published?
They should feel the dissonance. That's kinda the point.

It's more of an audience issue. Who would they be writing for if they published that kind of article?
The same one they were writing for to begin with: gamers.
 
I think Walker should have put it on RPS, personally. Game journalists are essentially brushing this under the rug (whether that is their intention or not) by discussing this in the corners of the internet rather than in the headlines, which is where it needs to be.
I don't know if RPS has any sort of policy against putting up posts that are not interesting to most of their readers but the site is part of the Eurogamer network.

That kind of report should be an op ed or an editorial. How could something of that sort be framed on IGN, GameSpot, GiantBomb or Game Informer? Can you imagine the dissonance reading the first page of any of those sites with that kind of article published? And I'm not being cynical about this "Yeah! How could they publish that! They suck from the same teat.". It's more of an audience issue. Who would they be writing for if they published that kind of article?

edit: Rock Paper Shotgun, Kotaku, Polygon I could see writing about this though. For different reasons each.
It's still the front page banner story on Eurogamer with 500 comments. :/ Most reviews don't get that much.
 

Antiwhippy

the holder of the trombone
That kind of report should be an op ed or an editorial. How could something of that sort be framed on IGN, GameSpot, GiantBomb or Game Informer? Can you imagine the dissonance reading the first page of any of those sites with that kind of article published? And I'm not being cynical about this "Yeah! How could they publish that! They suck from the same teat.". It's more of an audience issue. Who would they be writing for if they published that kind of article?
Patrick did tweet that he might have something up on giantbomb tomorrow.
 

Antiwhippy

the holder of the trombone
Opinion pieces? The news itself needs to be plastered all over the place. The fact that you need to browse gaf, twitter, or some other gaming forum somewhere on the internet to know about this is reprehensible.
Yes, opinion pieces, because I'd much rather hear more nuanced thoughts on something that involves their industry. At the same time that would be reporting the news of this event too. Not every site can work on a 24hour news cycle. The developement of everything is still fairly recent.
 
Patrick did tweet that he might have something up on giantbomb tomorrow.
Good. Though I feel that everything that needed to be said about this was already said by Walker and Kuchera I hope that more people writing about it results on taking the next step and be consequent. Games writers need to create a collective professional body to auto regulate their activity.
 
Yes, opinion pieces, because I'd much rather hear more nuanced thoughts on something that involves their industry. At the same time that would be reporting the news of this event too. Not every site can work on a 24hour news cycle. The developement of everything is still fairly recent.
Completely agreed.

Let's not expect actual investigative journalists to just pop out of the ether here. Remember who we're talking about. :p

(Don't hate me, gaming media. I always click on ads and shit.)
 
So it turns out people are getting free shit for their ridiculous OTs? I can't say I'm surprised. Most of them look like they came from the PR department anyway.
seriously? I mean, I don't doubt it for a moment but is there any evidence? I don't think EviLore would be pleased with that.
Of all the things to take away from this thread, this is the most important.
I've alluded to this twice in this thread already and no one seems to want to comment on it lol. Guess that tells us all we need to know...

Bruceleeroy (MGS4 OT) and Lucius86 (F1 2011 OT) are the ones I've seen mentioned in here but no word from either of them yet.
 
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