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[Graphics Horse]

So why is there only one pack of Doritos?

The word Dorito means turned golden and refers to Tortilla chips. Tortillas start off as circular in shape.
So the DORITOS obviously refer to a golden circle, or HALO, and the 4 bottles of MTN DEW CITRUS CHERRY GAME FUEL represent the 4th numbered entry in the HALO franchise.

 

[pargonta]

Read this, sums it all up nicely:

http://penny-arcade.com/report/editorial-article/libel-alleged-legal-threats-and-conflicts-of-interest-the-twisted-story-of-

Props to Penny arcade for getting on this.

Polygon and other blogs et al didn't seem to want to touch it.

 

[criesofthepast]

Geoff has always struck me as a good guy who knows his stuff.

But he's always been a business man. I don't find the picture to be surprising at all. Where have any of you been the last 5+ years?

I don't know how anyone could be angry with him over this.

Everyone else in this Eurogamer/twitter mess are a bunch of baboons.

 

[see5harp]

It's not just the writers who need to change. The content creators and audience need to step up as well. Apparentely 700,000 people paid to experience Lollipop Chainsaw.

 

[Shurs]

One debate worth having when this dust settles is Journalist vs Critic, and what the differences really mean. I think a lot of people branded games journalists more widely aren't at all, and are simply critics. Patrick Klepek is a great example of an actual journalist, doing actual investigative work within games, but people like him are actually rather uncommon.

Could you link some good Klepeck articles?

 

[Fistwell]

Read this, sums it all up nicely:

http://penny-arcade.com/report/editorial-article/libel-alleged-legal-threats-and-conflicts-of-interest-the-twisted-story-of-

Yea nice summary.

 

[Castor Krieg]

So either the guy who wrote a piece is lying about legal action or the other guy is.

If not pressured, would Eurogamer make an editorial change?

Think about it.

Thought so.

 

[inky]

Oh, game journalists. Will you ever stop embarrassing yourselves...

 

[John Rabbit]

the most hilarious thing about any of this, is that some of you were at some point duped into believing geoff keighley is anything more than a corporate shill/spokesmodel.

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

Funny how Keighley is minding his own business when this was originally about the photo of him surrounded by Junk food.

 

[PrimeRib_]

It's not just the writers who need to change. The content creators and audience need to step up as well. Apparentely 700,000 people paid to experience Lollipop Chainsaw.

It's the companies that run reviews of games on sites that also claim objectivity that needs to change. This needs to go hand in hand with some form of corporate governance that instructs its staff against such behavior. Without this, the staff sees nothing wrong because the company that pays them sees nothing wrong.

 

[Cerebral Assassin]

The word Dorito means turned golden and refers to Tortilla chips. Tortillas start off as circular in shape.
So the DORITOS obviously refer to a golden circle, or HALO, and the 4 bottles of MTN DEW CITRUS CHERRY GAME FUEL represent the 4th numbered entry in the HALO franchise.

You should work for an ad agency, that is some impressively subliminal advertising.

Props to Penny arcade for getting on this.

Polygon and other blogs et al didn't seem to want to touch it.

People in glass houses....

It's not just the writers who need to change. The content creators and audience need to step up as well. Apparentely 700,000 people paid to experience Lollipop Chainsaw.

So? Does the film industry need to "step up" because more than one person watched a Transformers film?

 

[LiK]

Just an excerpt...

LOLOL

 

[APZonerunner]

Could you link some good Klepeck articles?

Just google him; the best example is that he was the man who broke the Infinity Ward breakup story. He even sent a guy to camp outside the office and watch out, IIRC, as a newspaper would. He works for Giant Bomb now, and regularly does great features that are more than criticism or "here's a press release repackaged."

 

[JimFear]

ben kuchera wrote a good article concerning Lauren Wainright promoting Tomb Raider and being a freelance employe at squeenix
http://penny-arcade.com/report/edit...d-conflicts-of-interest-the-twisted-story-of-

 

[Zeliard]

Be sure to read John Walker's two excellent pieces on this subject.

This one was written after the original Rab Florence article came out but before the shit hit the fan with Lauren Wainwright and the article edits. Contains lots of disclosure and honest truths about what the biz is like, and lots of smacking about of idiots:

http://botherer.org/2012/10/24/games-journalists-and-the-perception-of-corruption/

This one is post-shit-hitting-fan and even angrier:

http://botherer.org/2012/10/25/an-utter-disgrace/

 

[faridmon]

Occam's razor again. Why are you so convinced that Dance Central 3 is a bad product? Have you played Dance Central 3?

I don't agree with their view on Giantbomb but this comment is awful. Why do we have to purchase a product just to prove some websites integrity and liability, especially since they are the ones who are telling us the game is good (or bad)

I am not singeling out Dance Central 3 or Gainbomb. I think its a fine game and the website is entertaining as hell, but if that is your argument, then please, consider your priorities.

 

[Lancehead]

Has any "games journalist", after this debacle, defended "a journalist's right to promote a game for personal gain"? I'd like to see if someone does that.

 

[inky]

the most hilarious thing about any of this, is that some of you were at some point duped into believing geoff keighley is anything more than a corporate shill/spokesmodel.

He has the talent to be better than that. He doesn't want to use that talent and prefers to take their money over his credibility with part of the audience, that's all.

 

[Hot Coldman]

Funny how Keighley is minding his own business when this was originally about the photo of him surrounded by Junk food.

This isn't really about Keighley anymore. The conversation moved on to Rab's articles, and the shitty response the UK press had to it. It's our moment of shame for a change, the guys over the pond get some relief for fucking once.

 

[Dennis]

What has shocked me the most is the amount of gaffers so immersed in consumer whore culture that they see nothing wrong with a journalist sitting on a throne of Doritos and Mountain Dew shilling his little heart out.

 

[Curufinwe]

This isn't really about Keighley anymore. The conversation moved on to Rab's articles, and the shitty response the UK press had to it. It's our moment of shame for a change, the guys over the pond get some relief for fucking once.

Geoff should send those guys a free PS3 and a bag of Doritos to thank them for taking the heat off him.

 

[ShineALight]

It's not just the writers who need to change. The content creators and audience need to step up as well. Apparentely 700,000 people paid to experience Lollipop Chainsaw.

What's wrong with Lollipop Chainsaw?

 

[PrimeRib_]

Has any "games journalist", after this debacle, defended "a journalist's right to promote a game for personal gain"? I'd like to see if someone does that.

I'd hate to think someone in the business wouldn't be able to form their own personal opinion on games, in the way a fan would praise a product they naturally like. But they'd have to do it on their own account, not under the umbrella of the company they work for, which would be damaging to their objectivity.

 

[Gowans]

Be sure to read John Walker's two excellent pieces on this subject.

This one was written after the original Rab Florence article came out but before the shit hit the fan with the article edits. Contains lots of disclosure and honest truths about what the biz is like, and lots of smacking about of idiots:

http://botherer.org/2012/10/24/games-journalists-and-the-perception-of-corruption/

This one is post-shit-hitting-fan and even angrier:

http://botherer.org/2012/10/25/an-utter-disgrace/

Fantastic reads.

Rab is so entertaining and thought provoking with his stuff. Reading his tweets he's been through the ringer today, poor bloke.

UK a lot games journalist come across as clowns and talk a tonne of bollocks without knowing basic facts (listen to UK games podcasts from bigger gaming media) & from there attitudes I can totally see why this article was needed.

 

[Hot Coldman]

Geoff should send those guys a free PS3 and a bag of Doritos to thank them for taking the heat off him.

It's kinda funny how the big response to the Keighley picture was general laughter, then Rab tried to steer it towards a bigger point about the games press and suddenly that picture isn't that interesting any more. :lol

I wish Brooker wasn't busy raising a child and shit because I'd like to see his take on this, he's ex-games press.

 

[theSlacker]

Yea, that's all I'm getting at. While I don't find anything he did wrong, I think it's largely hypocritical, even within the context of the article, to call someone out over a perception, but at the same time act weary of the ramification to these other peoples lively hoods, whom are in the wrong -and you have facts to back it up-. It's just a personal gripe, not trying to be contrary with you.

Well I don't think it was the intent to use these people to tarnish their names. They were just two (three with Geoff) easy examples that could have been anyone that tried for the free ps3. It was an example of the every day stuff that goes on that makes it so hard to determine journalistic integrity in this industry. For someone like Cook, who described by a friend in another article as someone who used that ps3 giveaway for free personal advertisement, and also made it a point to show that he was giving away what he won, this can be seen as a positive. He got more free publicity, and came out clean in the wake of the other mess.

I don't know how anyone could be angry with him over this.

No one, or rather no one who understood the article is angry with him. He was used in the article as the biggest and easiest example of the point the writer was trying to get across. I really wouldn't doubt that that picture making its way around the internet the last few days is the reason the story even got wrote in the first place. What Geoff is doing in it is completely normal for a game journalist. Even one that....let me quote the article....

is often described as an industry leader. A games expert. He is one of the most prominent games journalists in the world. And there he sits, right there, beside a table of snacks.

And that seems to be the problem. That this is normal.

 

[YuriLowell]

What's wrong with Lollipop Chainsaw?

Someone is probably in the "Skimpy Highschool Cheerleader Demeans Women Camp"

 

[Barkley's Justice]

Can we get a more descriptive thread title?

This appears to be one of the year's more important issues in gaming playing out as we speak.

 

[Chip N Chance]

Looks like Jeff Gerstman is doing something similar for Diet Pepsi/Skylanders. What a sell out.

 

[inky]

What has shocked me the most is the amount of gaffers so immersed in consumer whore culture that they see nothing wrong with a journalist sitting on a throne of Doritos and Mountain Dew shilling his little heart out.

He's not a journalist. He is a show organizer/presenter, that's why people don't mind anymore.

 

[DangerStepp]

I hate the word "games journalist" so much.

Soooo much.

 

[Osiris]

Has any "games journalist", after this debacle, defended "a journalist's right to promote a game for personal gain"? I'd like to see if someone does that.

Not after, but before, As he wrote in the original it was specifically the defence of such that inspired Rab to write the piece in the first place. Ironically the reason he named Lauren Wainwrong was that she had defended the right to promote for personal gain on twitter (now protected, and probably purged).

Ironic because it now does indeed look like she's been promoting S-E products for her own personal gain, Looks like she protested not because of how it made her look, she protested because she knew full well her hand was in that cookie-jar and didn't want people looking at all.

 

[Uthred]

Well this Wainwright lady is making him look pretty darn good. And smart. (is that sexist?)

Actually it seems he does donate stuff regularly so I think I likely jumped the snark gun on that one

 

[Hot Coldman]

I hate the word "games journalist" so much.

Soooo much.

It's so avoidable too. Games press, enthusiast press, games writers... hell, if they're primarily reviewers call them reviewers.

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

Would be hilarious if she starts deleting all the comments related to Square Enix and make her twitter public again, as if nothing happened.

 

[EternalGamer]

A vapid industry whose opinions are based entirely on hype and the ultimate conclusion of a piece of work is profits and not creating anything warranting actual discussion and substance (the idea of substance is counter-productive to the culture at this point) will never have "journalistic integrity" as it doesn't need journalism in the first place... nor integrity. Such a culture needs shills and shills are what we have. If "Summer Blockbuster Magazine" existed, what would you expect to be reading when you read past the cover? Hard hitting interviews or just advertising and things that might as well be advertising?

Excellent post.

My only caveat would be that when I interact with gaming media all I expect is "Summer Blockbuster Magazine." I am very much aware that is what I'm getting. It is is junkfood. It is trashy and vapid and focused mainly on hype and the cult of the new. And trying to class it up really doesn't do anything for me. That is why I'll just settle for videos introducing me to new games like Giant Bomb quick looks and podcast discussions. I really don't want any more "intellectualizing" than that within this culture because this culture is shallow and stupid at its very core.

I found it kind of touching when Justin McElroy said in one of those Polygon documentary videos something to the fact that he wanted to write about something of value and if videogames couldn't do that he feared he was wasting his life. But at the same time I wanted to tell the dude that he decided to build a career around writing about fucking videogames. What did he think he was getting into?

 

[JimFear]

a lot of people here dont seem to like polygon but ...

if you go here https://www.theverge.com/ethics-statement you can read this
"Our writers will not accept gifts (including food and drinks) in excess of $50 in value.."

Compare with:

Trion were giving away PS3s to journalists at the GMAs. Not sure why that's a bad thing?
"Gaming journalism" still has some maturing to do.



well.....


edit : wrong sentence

 

[SolidSnakex]

He's not a journalist. He is a show organizer/presenter, that's why people don't mind anymore.

I think it may just have to do with some people expecting this from journalists. So they just shrug it off. They go to those websites to view the exclusive trailers and screens that may be released for a game, but they don't use the opinions from those websites to swing their opinions on games.

 

[JDSN]

I hate the word "games journalist" so much.

Soooo much.

I think we should use "Potential Square-Enix community manager" as subtitute.

He's not a journalist. He is a show organizer/presenter, that's why people don't mind anymore.

If he calls himself a games journalist, then he should be measured as such.

 

[YuriLowell]

a lot of people here dont seem to like polygon but ...

if you go here https://www.theverge.com/ethics-statement you can read this
"We do not take free or discounted merchandise, whether it's a $500 phone or a $1 thumb drive."

Compare with:

Trion were giving away PS3s to journalists at the GMAs. Not sure why that's a bad thing?
"Gaming journalism" still has some maturing to do.



well.....

For all the things I don't like about Polygon, this is an awesome stance.

 

[see5harp]

I don't agree with their view on Giantbomb but this comment is awful. Why do we have to purchase a product just to prove some websites integrity and liability, especially since they are the ones who are telling us the game is good (or bad)

I am not singeling out Dance Central 3 or Gainbomb. I think its a fine game and the website is entertaining as hell, but if that is your argument, then please, consider your priorities.

His whole argument is based on the assumption that Dance Central 3 is somehow a bad product. Someone else mentioned that Fable The Journey was unfairly given a higher score than it deserved. I hardly even buy games but I make sure to play them before I say something about the quality. Gamefly, redbox, borrowing from friends....that shit exists. Know about something before you talk shit.

Someone is probably in the "Skimpy Highschool Cheerleader Demeans Women Camp"

It's a shitty product that fails on a number of fronts ignoring the fact that the entire ad campaign is sexy zombie slayer. Hell, I think more sex would have added something to the largely boring game.

 

[DangerStepp]

It's so avoidable too. Games press, enthusiast press, games writers... hell, if they're primarily reviewers call them reviewers.

That's the exact reason I get aggravated.

It gets flung around as a blanket term and is applied to the most abhorrent people who are the furthest thing from a 'journalist'.

It would be the equivalent of calling Siskel and Ebert movie journalists. Does that even exist?! ARRGGGHHH!

 

[APZonerunner]

It's so avoidable too. Games press, enthusiast press, games writers... hell, if they're primarily reviewers call them reviewers.

Like I said, at a point the debate has to be had as to where and when we draw a line between a critic and a journalist. Most "games journalists" don't actually do any journalism; they're critics. Roger Ebert isn't a journalist, he's a critic. He even says so himself. There is a difference, and it's a line we should draw, as what's expected of the two is different, too.

 

[Omikaru]

Apparently we at GAF, alongside 4chan, have started an "awful attack campaign" against Lauren Wainwright.

https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/261506403452203008

Please stop harassing @atheistium. 4chan and NeoGAF have started some awful attack campaign against her on Twitter over the Eurogamer story.

 

[Wildesy]

Because like Vice says they've only shown the positive so far, reviewing the other two highly favorably but then all of a sudden once their friends company is in trouble and the game they put out isn't that good they "won't review it because no one cares what we think"? Get out. If DC3 was a 5 star game you bet your ass there would've been a review.

Dance Central 3 is getting great reviews, what are you talking about? It's the highest rated of the series according to Metacritic.

 

[Osiris]

a lot of people here dont seem to like polygon but ...

if you go here https://www.theverge.com/ethics-statement you can read this
"We do not take free or discounted merchandise, whether it's a $500 phone or a $1 thumb drive."

Compare with:

Trion were giving away PS3s to journalists at the GMAs. Not sure why that's a bad thing?
"Gaming journalism" still has some maturing to do.



well.....

That's the Verge's ethics-statement, Polygon's doesn't go quite as far, unfortunately:

Our writers will not accept gifts (including food and drinks) in excess of $50 in value.

 

[RedNumberFive]

He's not a journalist. He is a show organizer/presenter, that's why people don't mind anymore.

Someone needs to tell him that. In his twitter bio, he specifically labels himself as a journalist.

 

[criesofthepast]

He's not a journalist. He is a show organizer/presenter, that's why people don't mind anymore.

That's what I've always seen him as. Which is why I don't understand using him as the example for what's wrong with game journos these days.

He did go to bat for the industry on national TV during the whole mass effect sex scandal thing. He also made the portal final hours documentary thing which was very well liked.

Geoff isn't as bad as people make him out to be. His intentions have always seemed pretty clear to me. But yeah, I don't see him as a journalist.

Everything else in the eurogamer article was spot on though.

 

[VeryGooster]

Dan Amrich (does he still work at Activision?) just tweeted this AJ Glasser op-ed from 2010 about publishers treating writers like fans and some people going along with it: http://gamepolitics.com/2010/08/16/...039no-cheering-press-box039-rule#.UIl4yLT7AkV