Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
I've seen them, but it'll be a shame if he never publishes any of it onto the main site.
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Games Journalism! Wainwright/Florence/Tomb Raider/Eurogamer/Libel Threats/Doritos
- Thread starter papersleeves
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I've seen them, but it'll be a shame if he never publishes any of it onto the main site.
An interesting video with some good thoughts on the whole situation.
You are wrong
this video is pretty good and highlights the fact that a lot of them dont even know it's happening to them, comparing this video to the posts by aegies in this thread claiming they can totally remain unbiased is pretty shocking
no it's not. stop being a righteous dullard.
ElRenoRaven
Gold Member
I honestly can't figure out what the hell that article is trying to accomplish. I really can't.
malingenie
Member
GAF is my journalist.
Jackben
bitch I'm taking calls.
RE: RPS Article
It was obviously written for a very specialized audience as it doesn't work for anyone but people very familiar with his RPS content. That's OK. Perhaps a mistake to post it in this thread as "RPS take on the situation" seeing as it's specialized humor for the RPS faithful, but not really worth criticising or calling funny or unfunny.
It was obviously written for a very specialized audience as it doesn't work for anyone but people very familiar with his RPS content. That's OK. Perhaps a mistake to post it in this thread as "RPS take on the situation" seeing as it's specialized humor for the RPS faithful, but not really worth criticising or calling funny or unfunny.
darkistheway
Member
Unnecessary? It was an article about corporate shills masquerading as journalists.
Real journalists name names, provide sources. Why even write an article about the lack of journalistic integrity in the industry if you are not going to show some faces?
I don't know why you are defending her, this isn't someone writing a blog in their spare time.
Naive? In my opinion, her totally unjustified overreaction implies a certain defensive awareness of what she was doing.
Real journalists aren't allowed to collect paychecks from the companies they report on. And if they did in the past, they better fucking disclaim it loud and clear.
By the way, most of the posts in this thread have focused on the bigger picture. Specific information about her dealings in the industry is a part of that picture.
you can blow out your lungs declaring how hard you didn't laugh, but that's okay. humour can do that.
Osiris
I permanently banned my 6 year old daughter from using the PS4 for mistakenly sending grief reports as it's too hard to watch or talk to her
Looks like I pushed a button, pavlovian response or did you actually expend any mental activity on that retort?
Jackben
bitch I'm taking calls.
Haha. I didn't mean to suggest it should be immune to criticism, just that maybe it really isn't important enough to worry about in the larger scheme of things seeing as it is being described as just a quirky article goofing around that has apparently gone over most people's heads including mine. In that context I really don't think it's defending anything or taking the issues at hand here seriously. And that's OK. But why worry about it?
We've got bigger fish to fry.
Thanks for the clarification, you can keep the snide comments though.
tick the box which involves you grossly misconstruing context due to unfamiliarity with the writer.
sorry, force of habit. if it was a single response i'd have been more measured, but my dickhead gland swelled to bursting point after reading half a page of indignation.
funnily enough, it's exactly the kind of humour that rab florence would've appreciated. god rest his soul.
grimshawish
Banned
Really interesting and intelligent thoughts.
Interesting that the current actions of these 'journalists' will eventually be out of a job as the industry changes to a more personal basis.
Like this video, subscribing to his channel. Good stuff.
It may be a necessary evil, but the extent to which they permeate gaming media is vastly higher than it is with other forms of entertainment media.
That was pretty good, especially towards the end with his whole assessment of the state of journalism (i.e. it is a mess beyond repair and it will die) and his advice on finding someone you trust.
No harm done.
s_mirage
Member
While the piece is obviously intended to be humourous, I would personally say that its timing is poor. RPS have yet to post a proper article on the subject and this one seems to be poking fun at one of the issues which is causing so much concern. There's nothing wrong with that per se, but without a serious article as a counterbalance it makes it look as if the site does not consider this to be a serious issue within the industry at all. That is almost certainly not what they are aiming for but it is how it can easily be percieved. This piece should have been posted later IMHO.
Ken Masters
Banned
Yes, that's it. We are too naive and dumb to grasp your extremely complicated jobs, why else did you all go to medical school for it
Harlock
Member
Totalbiscuit +++ <3
Agent Unknown
Member
Oh my yes, let's all feel sorry for "poor, naive little Lauren" who bragged about threatening legal action against a journalist for telling the truth and tried to cover her tracks by deleting incriminating information she herself had made public. And oh yes, shame on the gaming community for causing her to be "a subject of much Internet interest" due to her own stupid, aggressive, crass and unethical behavior but never mind all the harassing e-mails and threats Robert received, right? Give me a break.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
This one in the related videos is much better.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_NVVnwprH0&feature=related
BibiMaghoo
Member
It's taken me two days to read this thread.
What a clusterfuck of epic proportions.
What Florence did with that article is commendable, but perhaps a little naieve. Calling out people by name is never going to end well, even if it was not his intent. Even if it was necessary...
Lauren has come away from this badly. If she learns something from it then great. I doubt her career will be the same for her though.
I don't think any worse of EG for it. They allowed that to be published in the first place, which in my eyes is commendable. We still don't know what actually happened to them either unless I missed something.
What has Geoff have to say about all this?
I feel sorry for him to be honest.
What a clusterfuck of epic proportions.
What Florence did with that article is commendable, but perhaps a little naieve. Calling out people by name is never going to end well, even if it was not his intent. Even if it was necessary...
Lauren has come away from this badly. If she learns something from it then great. I doubt her career will be the same for her though.
I don't think any worse of EG for it. They allowed that to be published in the first place, which in my eyes is commendable. We still don't know what actually happened to them either unless I missed something.
What has Geoff have to say about all this?
I feel sorry for him to be honest.
Very nice take on the situation. I kind of agree with his conclusion. This whole mess is probably beyond repair. Game writers are only part of this humongous problem. I still would hope for at least some game journalists to re-evaluate and re-think their job ethics. I want them to stop for a moment and think about the treatment they are getting from PR. I want them to realize that true journalism means much more than being a mouthpiece for PR. I want them to think about the kind of responsibility being a reviewer is, and how can they be true and fair to their readers. That alone would be huge win for me.
But if the writers posting in this thread is any indication, they will always believe that they are incorruptible and continue doing what gaming PR want them to do.
For anyone who missed them:
Haha, why? He's dodging everything in this debacle.
BibiMaghoo
Member
What can he say though at this point really?
This all started because of shit he did, and didn't look especially happy about doing at the time lol.
All he can do is one massive internet shrug.
crazygambit
Member
You're missing the point. If in a real business you can't even accept gifts from clients , which should be OK, because it could look like impropriety, accepting gifts from PR and seeing nothing wrong with it, is delusional.
I'm sure Mr Keigley has some hard hitting thoughts of his own, but he works for MTV networks! He's probably just a well payed puppet, unable to speak for his own.
"Buy more Mountain Dew & Doritos."
chickdigger802
Banned
Pretty much. Not much to say anyhow. I doubt he even got a headsup that the stage for this show will be 'enhanced'.
I'm not a RPS reader, so the article didn't make sense to me either. However:
You know, I think Geoff has already given up on the ethics and integrity of the gaming journalism industry. I think he knows what he's doing, and he knows it looks bad. He just doesn't care anymore. The money is good. The fame is good. And at the end of the day, he is living a dream of every gamer kid. Why would he bother himself with this issue?
So when he sat in that chair surrounded by Doritos, Mtn Dew and a huge Halo poster, answering questions by constantly referring to how awesome Halo 4 will be. Do you really think he never thought that what he was doing was unprofessional as a journalist? Yeah, again, I think he realizes what he has become.
It's sad.
This was awesome. :lol
You know, I think Geoff has already given up on the ethics and integrity of the gaming journalism industry. I think he knows what he's doing, and he knows it looks bad. He just doesn't care anymore. The money is good. The fame is good. And at the end of the day, he is living a dream of every gamer kid. Why would he bother himself with this issue?
So when he sat in that chair surrounded by Doritos, Mtn Dew and a huge Halo poster, answering questions by constantly referring to how awesome Halo 4 will be. Do you really think he never thought that what he was doing was unprofessional as a journalist? Yeah, again, I think he realizes what he has become.
It's sad.
Hoping this whole mess separates the fakes from the reals. Would be great to get some more unbiased writers out there, not just glorified PR shills. What the hell at the doritos & dew display though. I laughed so hard. That said, I don't even hate Geoff, I always knew what I was getting from him. His style is more akin to watching entertainment tonight or something.
I have a hard time believing anyone who is actually making good money off this is especially sad about it. Free games, talk about games, schmooze with PR all day? Woe!
People talking solely about ethics as a motivator have a much more clear and dewy eyed view of the world than I do, that's for sure.
Without consequences or rewards, behavior isn't going to change. Internet outrage that doesn't impact advertising dollars or work relationships is neither.
People talking solely about ethics as a motivator have a much more clear and dewy eyed view of the world than I do, that's for sure.
Without consequences or rewards, behavior isn't going to change. Internet outrage that doesn't impact advertising dollars or work relationships is neither.
CrunchinJelly
formerly cjelly
So much for those saying Keighley was 'unaware'... seems well aware to me.
He doesn't need to respond. GAF and those who would care about this issue are not his audience.
Oh...oh Geoff :/
BibiMaghoo
Member
Because the picture of Geoff was evidence in itself. Enough to prompt the article and begin with. The claim about the Twitter promo did not need names. The picture was the entire point.
Well, that certainly was topical.....eh, I mean tropical.
My point is he's not getting any flak to feel sorry for.
TheBaronOfNA
Banned
People are more complicated than being 'bro' and 'prick' ?
chickdigger802
Banned
You can't really say shit in that situation though.
Mountain Dew can fuck your shit up man.
RedNumberFive
Banned
I feel like the total number of professional, adequately paid gaming writers in the world is rather low. And the ratio of professionals to hobby writers must be abysmal given that so many people are writing for free or for perks.
The economics of running/staffing a website are a much bigger part of this than has been discussed. If there were visible opportunities to become a respected, adequately compensated writer in the gaming media, I think it would naturally attract higher quality writers. But those positions are few and far between, so talented people are more likely to look elsewhere.
Having been a hobby writer myself, and eventually making it into the offices of one of the major U.S. websites as an intern and then a freelancer, personally I couldn't take it. The us-vs.-them mentality when it came to readers and competing sites was stupid. The fact that getting free stuff from companies caused writers to boast was ridiculous. I had my writing censored. To say nothing of all the inefficiency and wasted time, hiring of friends, etc.
Maybe the solution isn't just making sure paid writers are honest, it's about improving the self-respect of all those thousands of unpaid writers. Websites have access to this giant pool of enthusiasts who are willing to produce content with no regard for integrity or fair compensation, and not because they're bad people. They're just caught up in the excitement of being "part of the industry", at getting a peek behind the curtain, and being treated like they're special. If these people took themselves a little more seriously, if they were a little less willing to sacrifice their time and energy for a pat on the back, maybe the term "gaming journalist" would mean a little bit more.
The economics of running/staffing a website are a much bigger part of this than has been discussed. If there were visible opportunities to become a respected, adequately compensated writer in the gaming media, I think it would naturally attract higher quality writers. But those positions are few and far between, so talented people are more likely to look elsewhere.
Having been a hobby writer myself, and eventually making it into the offices of one of the major U.S. websites as an intern and then a freelancer, personally I couldn't take it. The us-vs.-them mentality when it came to readers and competing sites was stupid. The fact that getting free stuff from companies caused writers to boast was ridiculous. I had my writing censored. To say nothing of all the inefficiency and wasted time, hiring of friends, etc.
Maybe the solution isn't just making sure paid writers are honest, it's about improving the self-respect of all those thousands of unpaid writers. Websites have access to this giant pool of enthusiasts who are willing to produce content with no regard for integrity or fair compensation, and not because they're bad people. They're just caught up in the excitement of being "part of the industry", at getting a peek behind the curtain, and being treated like they're special. If these people took themselves a little more seriously, if they were a little less willing to sacrifice their time and energy for a pat on the back, maybe the term "gaming journalist" would mean a little bit more.
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