Neuromancer
Member
Holy shit lol
Seems he deleted that line about the auction though. Even he realized he was going too far I suppose.
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Games Journalism! Wainwright/Florence/Tomb Raider/Eurogamer/Libel Threats/Doritos
- Thread starter papersleeves
- Start date
- Status
Holy shit lol
Seems he deleted that line about the auction though. Even he realized he was going too far I suppose.
I H8 Memes
Member
Isnt there somebody here that posts under that user name? I might be mistaken on the name though, and if there is someone here under that name it might be a different person anyway.
indigo-cyclops
Member
Fucking despicable at this point.
TunaMarshmallow
Member
I'm not sure if any of the folks I was communicating with a bunch of pages back are still watching/reading/chatting. But I have a thought about something that you might do that could, over time, make a difference (if anything will).
Why not start a dedicated thread here on NeoGAF, to serve two purposes.
1. Publicly state your (ideally consensually arrived at) demands/standards/expectations. This document, or set of principles, could be directed at two different audiences/structures: the existing big-business/corporate games (pseudo-)media structure, and the inchoate grassroots alternative games press. In each case, you could explicitly detail what you believe is required for the legitimacy of entities within the given framework. You could list the kinds of hiring practices, disclosure and transparency practices, standards of professional and critical distance, absolute-no-go-zone principles, procedures of rectification (when there are missteps), and so forth, which you'd expect of a legitimate gaming media entity.
2. Catalog, case-study style, examples of entities/individuals which are, or are not, living up to the standards outlined in the document. When the policies you've provided are violated, you'd have a dedicated place to explain and discuss the problems. When sites or individuals do well, you'd have a place to explain and discuss those successes, too.
Over time, if this worked, the result would be a living and developing best-practices document, with case studies, for the games media.
Just a thought. And not a huge undertaking, frankly.
Why not start a dedicated thread here on NeoGAF, to serve two purposes.
1. Publicly state your (ideally consensually arrived at) demands/standards/expectations. This document, or set of principles, could be directed at two different audiences/structures: the existing big-business/corporate games (pseudo-)media structure, and the inchoate grassroots alternative games press. In each case, you could explicitly detail what you believe is required for the legitimacy of entities within the given framework. You could list the kinds of hiring practices, disclosure and transparency practices, standards of professional and critical distance, absolute-no-go-zone principles, procedures of rectification (when there are missteps), and so forth, which you'd expect of a legitimate gaming media entity.
2. Catalog, case-study style, examples of entities/individuals which are, or are not, living up to the standards outlined in the document. When the policies you've provided are violated, you'd have a dedicated place to explain and discuss the problems. When sites or individuals do well, you'd have a place to explain and discuss those successes, too.
Over time, if this worked, the result would be a living and developing best-practices document, with case studies, for the games media.
Just a thought. And not a huge undertaking, frankly.
Interfectum
Member
LOL hyperbole at its finest. Wow.
i really like keith stuart's article on the guardian about this (posted earlier bit i'm just reading it now)
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/gamesblog/2012/oct/30/video-game-journalism?CMP=twt_fd
he talks about how it's forced him to reconsider aspects of how he covers games and lays out concrete changes he's making. very considered and positive reaction.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/gamesblog/2012/oct/30/video-game-journalism?CMP=twt_fd
he talks about how it's forced him to reconsider aspects of how he covers games and lays out concrete changes he's making. very considered and positive reaction.
bigdaddygamebot
Member
The flag description is priceless.
The first step would take some effort. And, even though I don't like to say this, I doubt we can get a group together to do all the research - especially for things like hiring practices.
But if we can get the framework done, I think the second step would be much easier to implement, and I imagine a lot of people would be enthusiastic about participating in that.
bigdaddygamebot
Member
You'd almost think it was the Escapist's Dragon Age II.
I threw up a little after reading that disgusting hype.
Castor Krieg
Banned
As someone mentioned before, majority of gaming journalists get into the business in hopes of making it to the publisher's PR department.
So, this is from that other thread.
Not to mention out of touch with actual news.
I also like the bit about how they welcome comments, just not in the comments part of the article you'd want to comment about, cause that's not helpful.
Is this comedy?? Am I watching a weirdo video games "daily show" internet experiment?? The synchronicity of it all, it is uncanny.
It's interesting that they seem to not have any idea "what the fuck is wrong you guys!?!" (paraphrase). Or are they being coy or something? Either they're trolling hard or they're desperately (and hilariously) out of touch with a large portion of their (future-ex) audience, as evidenced by the erased comments and (parts of the) posts in the other thread.
Not to mention out of touch with actual news.
I also like the bit about how they welcome comments, just not in the comments part of the article you'd want to comment about, cause that's not helpful.
Is this comedy?? Am I watching a weirdo video games "daily show" internet experiment?? The synchronicity of it all, it is uncanny.
That statement works whether 'this' refers to Tomb Raider or the shitstorm.
I think PandoDaily(TechCrunch competitor) has the right model in terms of reporting press releases and other 'meat and potatoes' content. The main feed is completely original content/editorial/opinion and the side feed, PandoTicker is just links to other sites that are reporting all the standard news with maybe a paragraph or so of Pando news reporter comments if there is anything to add or opinion to the story.
I think this is the right approach to modern journalistic site(site that employs actual journalists). The main stories when you come to the site is all original that would not exist(at least in the same form) without the effort of the site and the smaller feed is enough to keep your reader informed about general state of industry.
Why waste all the effort on redundant work reporting same shit as everyone. Just concentrate on original content as a majority of stuff that people see when they come to your site.
I think this is the right approach to modern journalistic site(site that employs actual journalists). The main stories when you come to the site is all original that would not exist(at least in the same form) without the effort of the site and the smaller feed is enough to keep your reader informed about general state of industry.
Why waste all the effort on redundant work reporting same shit as everyone. Just concentrate on original content as a majority of stuff that people see when they come to your site.
"Please restrict your comments to your favourite choice of toppings and how awesome Halo 4 is."
Whats so unreasonable about that?
arglebargle
Member
if parts of the gaming press actually end up being more responsible as a result of this controversy, that would be the best outcome. since a wholesale move in that direction seems like a long shot, my silver lining will be discovering how awesome rab florence is. i had seen that god hand review and a few other things of his but never made the connection that he is someone i should pay attention to until this. i started reading his eurogamer editorials and i like that this is the first thing he wrote for them.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-06-27-lost-humanity-1-fighting-talk
prescient
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-06-27-lost-humanity-1-fighting-talk
prescient
"Ignore the man behind the pizza. Enjoy the pizza only. Do not talk about the pizza, except to say how much you like the pizza."
It's fine! I actually got (delicious) pizza on my way back from the office.
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
Wow... he gave it 5 out of 5 in return of that $2000+ auction pimping. Great show, bloggers. Great show.
i particularly like his piece about a fictional dark souls film which is a bonkers and hilarious way of explaining just why dark souls is so interesting and the very personal proteus one.
EternalGamer
Banned
My search for Pizza Hut on Giant Bomb:
http://www.giantbomb.com/pizza-hut/95-2442/
Turned up the appopriate result:
"A restaurant that sells Pizza."
Although, apparently Halo 4 isn't listed under Pizza Hut games the way it should be.
http://www.giantbomb.com/pizza-hut/95-2442/
Turned up the appopriate result:
"A restaurant that sells Pizza."
Although, apparently Halo 4 isn't listed under Pizza Hut games the way it should be.
You have the power to fix that.
Hookers and blow, man. Hookers. And Blow.
If this goes on much longer I predict we will start to see a massive backlash from games journalists worried that they will suffer permanent prestige loss.
I expect them to start talking about witch hunts, personal agendas and immature misogynistic manchildren. You know, deflection stuff.
I expect them to start talking about witch hunts, personal agendas and immature misogynistic manchildren. You know, deflection stuff.
arglebargle
Member
ill be honest, his love of dark souls (and god hand) are part of what makes me respect him. the other part is that he is funny, incisive, and critical.
according to wikipedia he also had this to say about lack of love:
and no one who like love-de-lic games can be bad.
im reading through the rest of his stuff now, but i am really enjoying what i have read so far. hope he lands somewhere that allows him to keep writing about games.
Delusibeta
Banned
I'm actually surprised that, with a few minor exceptions, no-one has gone "this controversy is bad and you should feel bad".
bigdaddygamebot
Member
EternalGamer
Banned
Done. I also added Halo 4 to the Doritos and Mountain Dew webpages.
I thought about adding it to Keighley's page but I didn't.
chalkitdown1
Member
Keith Stuart said:
Oops. Somone gon get fired.
You jerk.
Oops. Somone gon get fired.
lol
Oops. Somone gon get fired.
Well... he admits he's a #sellout lol
nice. pretty sure Halo 3 and Reach were also Dew/Doritos joints.
I think that some them are getting scared.
This is basically a full on assault on the way business is done in the gaming press.
CartridgeBlower
Member
Oops. Somone gon get fired.
Do people forget what they did on twitter just days before? Unbelievable.
McBradders
NeoGAF: my new HOME
Different Guardian writer.
Why do you think so many sites are busy giving excuses for why this isn't really newsworthy?
They don't want people to give a shit.
"Can't we just go back to business as usual, guys? We got a good thing going on here."
What's the word over in SA?
Edit: did they un-erase the comments? It shows 23 comments right now on my end. The fuck is this mess... Is it still ok to feel nausea over PR posing as news now that comments are uncensored!!? HNGNHNHNGNGHNGH!!!?!
Cerebral Assassin
Member
Pretty sure they won't add that to the page as it is for games that contain the products(like Crazy Taxi for Pizza Hut) rather than sponsorship & promotional offers.
Oops. Somone gon get fired.
Are you fucking serious?
Nothing can stop this train.
CambriaRising
Member
This. They want it to just disappear, we have to make sure it doesn't get swept under the rug.
McBradders
NeoGAF: my new HOME
I was asking a genuine question. Who else is riding their butts.
ChristianSpicer
Neo Member
I am really glad this thread exists.
This kind of stuff exists in other business and media-related stuff too but just because it exists there doesn't mean gamers have to put up with it.
Hopefully this thread will actually change some people's reading habits and others' reporting habits.
In my experience it's tough sometimes as a writer on a blog/site/whatever b/c often times you're paid very little (paid per post or have a post requirement) and then there is a pre-approved list of "stories" or topics you can write about. Often times these "stories" are just links to PR releases or better yet, other sites' "articles" about that PR release. The writer doesn't really care about the story and has very little incentive to write something better than "passable" for that post. They do the bare minimum required to have that post "count" as a post and move on.
So from that perspective it might be easy to let the writer off the hook b/c they're "just doing their job" and the real "bad guys" are the people running the site and/or editors. But I don't think that is right. These "writers" need to stand up for better quality and integrity too, just like the readers need to demand better quality.
The problem, however, is that there are so many people that want to crack into this "business" that many writers feel/are easily replaced by someone that "plays ball." And because creating a site and getting a following isn't all that hard, the same can be said for websites. If one site stops playing ball, another will spring up to take its place.
This "business" needs to be changed from the top down, down up, inside out, and outside in if real lasting change is going to take place.
But like I said, this problem is not isolated to gaming sites. I used to live in San Diego and now San Diego's newspaper is basically just a mouthpiece for propaganda but it still is represented as "news." Here is a NY Times piece about that for those interested:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/11/b...bune-open-about-its-pro-business-motives.html
This post is already too long but screw it, right?
I was offerred a free trip across the country to cover a major video-game company presentation. I am not sure why representatives from this company contacted me and offered me the trip, etc, but it happened. They said they liked things I had posted about games and whatever before...so yeah...whatever.
I ACCEPTED THE TRIP. I was given no guidelines for what the company wanted from me or why they were sending me to this presentation. It wasn't like I was hired to cover the event by the company and sent there to write things for the company's site or told to tweet positive things, etc. Look, I'll be the first to admit, I'd be willing to do that but I'd make it VERY clear that is exactly what I was doing when I was doing those things. You would never see a tweet or something from me that was disguised as one thing when it was really another.
This trip, that wasn't the case. I wasn't hired by anyone to cover anything. I was told the company was familiar with past things I had done at similar events. They sent me there. The story goes...
I flew across the country, a car service picked me up from the airport, took me to the event, and I was provided food, etc. During the presentation at the event I started doing what I have always done at those types of events, tweeting my honest impressions and feelings along with some fashion updates on what people were wearing (b/c that cracks me up).
Then during the hands-on portion of the event I received a call from someone at PR saying essentially that they had read my tweets and then reminding me who paid for my trip. I was then told to meet a PR rep at the event where I would meet a company rep who would "work with me for the remainder of the event to make sure I was having the most enjoyable time possible and had all of my questions answered." I was babysat. I was so pissed about the whole experience.
I shot a bunch of video about the whole thing on my phone while there, as it was happening, my thoughts, etc. I decided not to really do anything with it b/c this business, like any business, is small and I didn't want to burn any bridges with "raw" "in the moment" emotions.
But the more I see stuff like this going on, the more I know we all need to stand up for everything we believe in, even if one of those things is just how games are covered, or whatever.
Dang. Sorry if this was long and didn't make sense.
This kind of stuff exists in other business and media-related stuff too but just because it exists there doesn't mean gamers have to put up with it.
Hopefully this thread will actually change some people's reading habits and others' reporting habits.
In my experience it's tough sometimes as a writer on a blog/site/whatever b/c often times you're paid very little (paid per post or have a post requirement) and then there is a pre-approved list of "stories" or topics you can write about. Often times these "stories" are just links to PR releases or better yet, other sites' "articles" about that PR release. The writer doesn't really care about the story and has very little incentive to write something better than "passable" for that post. They do the bare minimum required to have that post "count" as a post and move on.
So from that perspective it might be easy to let the writer off the hook b/c they're "just doing their job" and the real "bad guys" are the people running the site and/or editors. But I don't think that is right. These "writers" need to stand up for better quality and integrity too, just like the readers need to demand better quality.
The problem, however, is that there are so many people that want to crack into this "business" that many writers feel/are easily replaced by someone that "plays ball." And because creating a site and getting a following isn't all that hard, the same can be said for websites. If one site stops playing ball, another will spring up to take its place.
This "business" needs to be changed from the top down, down up, inside out, and outside in if real lasting change is going to take place.
But like I said, this problem is not isolated to gaming sites. I used to live in San Diego and now San Diego's newspaper is basically just a mouthpiece for propaganda but it still is represented as "news." Here is a NY Times piece about that for those interested:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/11/b...bune-open-about-its-pro-business-motives.html
This post is already too long but screw it, right?
I was offerred a free trip across the country to cover a major video-game company presentation. I am not sure why representatives from this company contacted me and offered me the trip, etc, but it happened. They said they liked things I had posted about games and whatever before...so yeah...whatever.
I ACCEPTED THE TRIP. I was given no guidelines for what the company wanted from me or why they were sending me to this presentation. It wasn't like I was hired to cover the event by the company and sent there to write things for the company's site or told to tweet positive things, etc. Look, I'll be the first to admit, I'd be willing to do that but I'd make it VERY clear that is exactly what I was doing when I was doing those things. You would never see a tweet or something from me that was disguised as one thing when it was really another.
This trip, that wasn't the case. I wasn't hired by anyone to cover anything. I was told the company was familiar with past things I had done at similar events. They sent me there. The story goes...
I flew across the country, a car service picked me up from the airport, took me to the event, and I was provided food, etc. During the presentation at the event I started doing what I have always done at those types of events, tweeting my honest impressions and feelings along with some fashion updates on what people were wearing (b/c that cracks me up).
Then during the hands-on portion of the event I received a call from someone at PR saying essentially that they had read my tweets and then reminding me who paid for my trip. I was then told to meet a PR rep at the event where I would meet a company rep who would "work with me for the remainder of the event to make sure I was having the most enjoyable time possible and had all of my questions answered." I was babysat. I was so pissed about the whole experience.
I shot a bunch of video about the whole thing on my phone while there, as it was happening, my thoughts, etc. I decided not to really do anything with it b/c this business, like any business, is small and I didn't want to burn any bridges with "raw" "in the moment" emotions.
But the more I see stuff like this going on, the more I know we all need to stand up for everything we believe in, even if one of those things is just how games are covered, or whatever.
Dang. Sorry if this was long and didn't make sense.
RedNumberFive
Banned
A refreshingly honest look into the average week of a game journalist.
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