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Games with backwards difficulty curves
- Thread starter SlipperySlope
- Start date
BabeSlayer
Member
console version of Witcher 2 must be different (or patched) cause the beginning was smooth sailing.
Total War: Empire.....game brutalizes me
ff the topic: Seeing a lot of people talk about infinite Undiscovered or whatever. I must have missed this one, worth playing if i'm LTTP?
Total War: Empire.....game brutalizes me
ff the topic: Seeing a lot of people talk about infinite Undiscovered or whatever. I must have missed this one, worth playing if i'm LTTP?Borderlands.
You have no skills, your weapons suck, you don't have much life or good shields, and you're fighting hordes of Skags, some of the most armored creatures in the game who surround you and leap at you and only have a critical spot when their mouth is open, and there aren't enough quests to outlevel the opening content so you're trying to complete some quests that are a level or two higher than you fighting with pea shooters.
Then you get some great skills, better proficiencies in your weapons of choice, better weapons/shields/health, and then Skags all but disappear from the game (until the second playthrough, but you still slaughter them at that point.)
You have no skills, your weapons suck, you don't have much life or good shields, and you're fighting hordes of Skags, some of the most armored creatures in the game who surround you and leap at you and only have a critical spot when their mouth is open, and there aren't enough quests to outlevel the opening content so you're trying to complete some quests that are a level or two higher than you fighting with pea shooters.
Then you get some great skills, better proficiencies in your weapons of choice, better weapons/shields/health, and then Skags all but disappear from the game (until the second playthrough, but you still slaughter them at that point.)
It's been noted the difficulty curve was smoother post-patching, and the 360 version IS the end result of CD Projekt Red updating over the year.
les papillons sexuels
Banned
most jrpgs that dont rely on stupid mechanics for the end level. like lost odyssey did.
Whogie
Member
The Mega Man Xes comes to mind. Most of the game is spent playing with a pool of stages, and each one beaten makes the game a bit easier. They're especially hard when you first start the game.
Though the difficulty ramps up a bit at the castle, it's nothing too dramatic if you come prepared with sub tanks.
But yeah, RPG elements.
Though the difficulty ramps up a bit at the castle, it's nothing too dramatic if you come prepared with sub tanks.
But yeah, RPG elements.
Black_Stride
do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
Pretty much every game that has unlocks and or requires skill to truly master.
I almost always suck the first few minutes of every game i play, but soon after getting the basics dare i say im pretty badass.
But more on Topic.
The Witcher 2 - The prologue might as well have been called hell...i nearly gave up cuz i was getting beaten for fun.
Lost Odysseys - Griffin boss is the hardest fight in the game.....by far even more than the final boss and every post game boss
Resonance of Fate - Only because the fighting engine is so frikkin unique, the frst few fights you just dont know whats going on....but once you master it the game becomes a breeze pretty much till the end
I almost always suck the first few minutes of every game i play, but soon after getting the basics dare i say im pretty badass.
But more on Topic.
The Witcher 2 - The prologue might as well have been called hell...i nearly gave up cuz i was getting beaten for fun.
Lost Odysseys - Griffin boss is the hardest fight in the game.....by far even more than the final boss and every post game boss
Resonance of Fate - Only because the fighting engine is so frikkin unique, the frst few fights you just dont know whats going on....but once you master it the game becomes a breeze pretty much till the end
Most of the earlier Final Fantasy games.
At the start you tend to only have access to healing potions and antidotes as items, and have to spend a percentage of your hard-earned gold on them. Also, the cost increase from town to town matters as it's a long way back on foot, and you may not be able to make it if your fledgeling party is beaten up.
Later on, the gold gained from monsters gets ridiculously high, potions don't increase in cost that much, and you don't need to buy the potions anyway as you have mages with piles of MP that are restored by staying in the cheapest Inn you can reach with your airship!
Actually this goes for most RPGs to be honest. Bethesda games are always much tougher at the start when you don't have much in the way of resources. By the end, you have cupboards full of health packs and magic swords, and money becomes increasingly meaningless once you have the top-tier equipment.
So, yeah, game economies work against your lower level player, but mean nothing once the player has more money than the local royalty. Just like real life! ;-)
At the start you tend to only have access to healing potions and antidotes as items, and have to spend a percentage of your hard-earned gold on them. Also, the cost increase from town to town matters as it's a long way back on foot, and you may not be able to make it if your fledgeling party is beaten up.
Later on, the gold gained from monsters gets ridiculously high, potions don't increase in cost that much, and you don't need to buy the potions anyway as you have mages with piles of MP that are restored by staying in the cheapest Inn you can reach with your airship!
Actually this goes for most RPGs to be honest. Bethesda games are always much tougher at the start when you don't have much in the way of resources. By the end, you have cupboards full of health packs and magic swords, and money becomes increasingly meaningless once you have the top-tier equipment.
So, yeah, game economies work against your lower level player, but mean nothing once the player has more money than the local royalty. Just like real life! ;-)
OpinionatedCyborg
Member
Skyrim. I remember being chased by a Yeti aka Snow Troll at the beginning of the game. He followed he halfway across the map. It was scary as shit. Another time I had to creep in the bushes along the road to avoid a bear. 30 hours later and the game was easy as shit .
.Kong Fisso
Banned
Skyrim. I remember being chased by a Yeti aka Snow Troll at the beginning of the game. He followed he halfway across the map. It was scary as shit. Another time I had to creep in the bushes along the road to avoid a bear. 30 hours later and the game was easy as shit
And it's such a shame. For the first many hours the game was very challenging and I'd have to hide or cheese harder enemies because of my shitty build. Then I levelled smithing and the rest of the game was stupidly easy, borderlining tedious. Should've gone stealth!
Skyrim. I remember being chased by a Yeti aka Snow Troll at the beginning of the game. He followed he halfway across the map. It was scary as shit. Another time I had to creep in the bushes along the road to avoid a bear. 30 hours later and the game was easy as shit
That's my problem with bethesda games, once I get my skills maxed and my gear awesome I can't be bothered to keep playing. I already won bish, nothing can kill me, ever!
Actually since this is a big RPG problem I wonder what solutions there are to the issue that are satisfying, I don't find level scaling to be particularly satisfying. If you're creating a linear game and limiting character progression then it's relatively easy to balance. At the same time even with those games you don't want a situation where you need to build your character a certain way in order to succeed which means that you can't really have much of a power variance (at any specific point in the game) in the choices of character building and gear accumulation.
Red Arremer
Member
Came here to say this. After the third-or-so boss (the pet tiger-monster of the evil witch), you get access to magic, and the game becomes almost a breeze. It still has challenging moments, mind you, but it gets easier as you progress.
Also, Shining Force starts out really difficult, and it stays difficult, but becomes gradually easier as you get access to the promoted characters.
parappatherapper
Member
^^I spent hours doing that. I bet I could do it now from muscle memory
Not the whole game, but the very first area in Metal Gear Solid is very hard.
It's hard to dodging both guards, and call the elevator without getting caught . You have low heath, and no weapons. I didn't know you can break necks until much later.
And if you take too long a third guard shows up.
Not the whole game, but the very first area in Metal Gear Solid is very hard.
It's hard to dodging both guards, and call the elevator without getting caught . You have low heath, and no weapons. I didn't know you can break necks until much later.
And if you take too long a third guard shows up.
First thing that came to my head reading this thread. On one hand I think you should eventually get to a point where you are so awesome that nothing happens in your general area if you've established yourself there. However, like you said there is nothing dangerous after the first couple of nights. Heck, for "veteran" players there is nothing dangerous from the start, go dig a hole for a the night and then wake up to burning zombies.
I really wish there was more danger in the game, difficulty curve is very backwards.
Krappadizzle
Member
That is really the issue more than anything else mentioned in this thread. Hell, maybe that should be a topic of discussion. I'm sure it's come up before, but really how do you balance a sense of accomplishment as a player with a sense of challenge?
One solution I can think of is new enemies that have different strategies. What happens though is you are still too powerful even when new enemies are introduced.
You can't gimp a player as that feels like a cheap move. Scaling enemies seems like a cop out too. I think Dark Souls did a pretty good job of challenging you even as you progressed, I mean there is going to be a point where it doesn't matter what you can throw at a player, memorizing enemy patterns will eventually trump all.
It's the constant changing of enemies/new enemies or hell even changing an existing enemies patterns that surprise you that would make it interesting. I'm curious as to what other people think as a viable solution would be? Damn, I wish I could create a topic.
darth_infamous
Member
What the OP described sounds like Darwinian difficulty http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/6531/darwinian_difficulty_how_throwing_.php
Yeah FFT definitely. As soon as you get Orlandeau that game enters easy mode, that is, if you hadn't already made your previous units broken
Oh, man. I remember snagging the Japanese demo for RE4 from a magazine, back in the day, and I wasn't able to play it straight away because I was heading off to a big LAN event later that day. So, I setup my Gamecube, connected to a projector, and played it in front of a few hundred people who knew nothing about it because they were all PC gamers.
Got to the village, and man. It just went perfectly. I dived on in, having absolutely no frame of reference for what to expect because this situation was entirely unlike anything I'd ever experienced in a Resident Evil game. I was taken by surprise when the entire village mobbed me, and I barreled around like a madman. I ran out of ammo only to find more right as I was about to get swamped. Climbed all over buildings, kicked down the ladders, smashed through windows, shot through doors, ran out of pistol ammo and found the shotgun. Fuck yeah!
All good things come to an end though and eventually I was surrounded by enemies, completely out of ammo, backed into a corner, having just thrown the only grenade I had, the chainsaw dude was advancing on me, I had a sliver of health left and I knew it was all over and - BONG goes the bell. Cutscene starts up, enemies bugger off, I let out my breath and the people behind me who were watching started clapping.
FUCK, what an awesome experience.
(Then, the Xbox guy from Microsoft showed up and kicked me off the projector to demo Halo 2 Zanzibar, and nobody gave a shit
)Lord British
Member
In my experience, Symphony of the Night is like this. Everyone warned me about Garamoth (Galamoth?) and by the time I got to him he was hitting me for 1hp or something.
samus4ever
Banned
The Witcher 2 - I died more times in the prologue than I did the rest of the game.
Darksiders - First boss. Maybe it was the way the layout of the controls were. Took me a good chunk of time to finally beat the the boss.
Demon's Souls - Took me about 12 hours to get through level 1-1 and 2-1. After that, the game became a lot easier.
Darksiders - First boss. Maybe it was the way the layout of the controls were. Took me a good chunk of time to finally beat the the boss.
Demon's Souls - Took me about 12 hours to get through level 1-1 and 2-1. After that, the game became a lot easier.
GasProblem
Member
Monster Hunter.
Fucking Tigrex.
Fucking Tigrex.
Krappadizzle
Member
Damn that sounds awesome. There really doesn't seem like there could be a better way to have that as a first time for RE4. Sucks you got upstaged but still, that is pretty bad ass!
Riposte
Member
I find this thread a bit tragic. Maybe health should start lowering through some games.
After Anor Londo the trend curve starts to sink. (Maybe aside from Tomb of the Giants)
After Anor Londo the trend curve starts to sink. (Maybe aside from Tomb of the Giants)
dragonlife
Member
Knights in the Nightmare.
Oh, wait. I don't actually know if it gets any easier because I never got past the first two chapters.
Rondo of Swords was also damn hard... I didn't get very far in that one, either.
Oh, wait. I don't actually know if it gets any easier because I never got past the first two chapters.
Rondo of Swords was also damn hard... I didn't get very far in that one, either.
utsavinheaven
Member
RE4 was amazing,but the village was nightmare.
running from the chainsaw guy for the first time gave me goosebumps and the amount of punishment he takes before he drops at that lvl was just staggering.
Anor Londo is so far into the game, though, that I find it hard to qualify for a thread like this.
And, like you said, Tomb of Giants is a giant pain in the ass as well.
Demon's Souls stayed pretty consistent after the initial couple of hours really. Only the Valley of Defilement is an outlier. And personally I think the VoD is pretty overrated in hardness.
GrotesqueBeauty
Banned
One of my main gripes with modern Mario games is that the difficulty tends to plateau after the first couple worlds, then rely on a final "secret" world or level to (over) compensate. It sucks because the games are so well designed otherwise, but the lack of a proper difficulty curve invariably leaves a sour taste in my mouth.
For VoD it's more that enemies hit surprisingly hard, the swamp is poisonous, and it's just not a visually pleasant place to be. I'm sure an aesthetic overhaul alone would change people's opinions on the area as ridiculous as that may seem, otherwise it's more a mildly annoying place where mistakes are less easily forgiven.
KittenMaster
Member
Pretty much any game where you upgrade your characters.
I remember my first time fighting him, I somehow managed to get behind him through some accidental damage boosting where none of his attacks could hit me except for his body. So much for the difficulty there.
XIII was probably one of the few RPGs that actually got harder towards the end, outside of the Eidolon fights.
samus4ever
Banned
VoD good memories. Yay I beat the big guy. Then proceed to step off the ledge right before the mist.
BassForever
Member
Was coming to post this, any semblance of difficulty FFT had pretty much dies the moment TG Cid joins the party. Seriously with his default equipment and skills you can solo the rest of the game with him.
REMEMBER CITADEL
Banned
Warhammer: Shadow of the Horned Rat has an optional branch in the first third of the game which is incredibly hard to pass and keep your coffers full (if you run out of money, you lose the means to pay your mercenaries and it's practically game over). It's best to skip that quest line altogether.
Halo 2 on Legendary. One of the hardest encounters is in the hangar on the first level.
Halo 2 on Legendary. One of the hardest encounters is in the hangar on the first level.
hikarutilmitt
Member
Definitely Vakyrie Profile.
Each difficulty has some areas the others do not, plus there are items not available in other difficulties. Basically they changed the amount of EXP you get and the toughness of monsters, but it ends up backwards balanced because Easy winds up being MUCH more difficult and Hard eventually becomes a cakewalk with some of the items they give you.
Each difficulty has some areas the others do not, plus there are items not available in other difficulties. Basically they changed the amount of EXP you get and the toughness of monsters, but it ends up backwards balanced because Easy winds up being MUCH more difficult and Hard eventually becomes a cakewalk with some of the items they give you.
dlc boss was a huge pain in the ass
I think the last level was really hard.
Twilight Princess is really extreme there.While you beat the first three, four dungeons, the difficulty raises correctly and keeps it on the more challenging site. After that, you keep getting stronger, but the difficulty curve just don't rise enough to keep the challenge up.
Sir Garbageman
Member
Most RPGS imo.
Combichristoffersen
Combovers don't work when there is no hair
Oh God yes. There was much cursing and raging involved when fighting Tiamat. The other bosses weren't too bad though.
I'd also have to echo the sentiment that RE4's village was fairly hard for being the first part of the game.