Chloe is fantastic but I feel like this says more about modern day Lara Croft than Chloe. Lara is straight trash in TR2013 (haven't played Rise). The way she's written and the way she's acted, it's generally a poor effort across the board. I hope whoever makes the next TR game gives Lara the attention as a character she deserves.
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GamesRadar: Chloe Frazer is the Lara Croft you want
- Thread starter AdaWong
- Start date
GinoFelino
Member
Yikes, that sounds terrible
I figured they meant she's a confident badass like the old Lara Croft
I'd definitely love to see more male characters getting emotional and breaking out of the stoic and/or wise-cracking action hero stereotype. I don't think that there's anything wrong with a female character showing "fragility" or emotions (I know you're not implying that), what's wrong is if you're portraying her in such a way (or expecting her to be portrayed in such a way) only because she's female.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
We still need to improve on how we describe what we want out of female characters instead of defaulting to "fragile" or "badass" or "strong".
To me, Chloe's appeal is the connection between her command of mythology / history and her background. She is very believable as an Indian. I think it enhances her motivation and makes the story, mythos, and villain stronger.
Nulara is just poorly written. Old Lara was basically Chloe without the wise cracks (and with huge boobs). Pierre. Litterbug.
Nulara is just poorly written. Old Lara was basically Chloe without the wise cracks (and with huge boobs). Pierre. Litterbug.
Toni
Member
Nice clickbait article/title.
But no. Lara is iconic gaming character, even my grandma knows who Lara Croft is.
Chloe Ferezer...
But that's not even what the article is talking about.
Read it.
GinoFelino
Member
All I know is ULL gave me the Old Tomb Raider vibe I was really hoping to get from New Tomb Raider
I'll have a new uncharted where she fights nazis with Sully thanks
I'll have a new uncharted where she fights nazis with Sully thanks
keep the dream alive
I played all of Rise to Tomb Raider in Japanese with English subtitle, even though I don't speak a lick of Japanese. I tried to pretend that I was playing a poorly localized Japanese game. I still wanted to stab my brain because of the terrible dialogues.
I am sure Camilla is a fine person and actress but my God her delivery in these games is poor. I can only describe it as concerned apathy. That doesn't even make sense and yet that is the appropriate description of what she is doing.
Frazer is well written but it wouldn't take Naughty Dog calibre writing to surpass reboot Lara. I would be hard pressed to find a character as poorly written as reboot Lara in AAA space this generation.
I am sure Camilla is a fine person and actress but my God her delivery in these games is poor. I can only describe it as concerned apathy. That doesn't even make sense and yet that is the appropriate description of what she is doing.
Frazer is well written but it wouldn't take Naughty Dog calibre writing to surpass reboot Lara. I would be hard pressed to find a character as poorly written as reboot Lara in AAA space this generation.
Schopenhauerian
Member
Briefly recalling some key points from previous threads:
Also, some notes on Classic Lara's "...confidence, internal drive..." and backstory (which includes "command of mythology / history" and intrinsic love for adventure/discovery), as mentioned by Harlequin, above: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=226034195#post226034195
Honest question: Do you or anyone here, really think that if Lara's chest had been reduced to --let's say-- a 3rd of its size.. would that have had a noticeable reduction in sales, or changed the impact on mainstream media?
Seems people have willfully forgotten (or where too young) the way she was portrayed on the articles (ie, written stuff) back then. It has been interesting to witness, though.
That is not to say that current Lara has filled those shoes (because she has not).
apparently going from thief to mass murderer is fine. archaeologist to mass murderer no no
execution is the big thing here
they set up chloe as being self centered, driven "i'll fuck you over if it means getting ahead in the long run" type of person back in 2
I'm a little hazy on the details of how they set up lara today but chloe has always been extreme. She tried to leave that camera man for dead in 2 when drake and elena was trying to save him lol. So seeing her being a murderer like this isn't a surprise
semiconscious
Member
sooo tired of this. loved aloy because of, among other things, the complete absence of this crap
...We know that Chloe is no stranger to violence and killing, though. Reboot Lara went from being traumatised by her first kill to having mowed down several dozen people in the span of a few hours.
(Also, the fact that Crystal have actually made reboot Lara an archaeologist is freaking LOL-worthy considering how classic Lara treated ancient sites and ancient artefacts (hell, reboot Lara isn't much better in that regard which makes her supposedly having studied archaeology all the more ridiculous).)
SofNasciment-
Member
One of the biggest hints how immature we are are about female characters in action games (or films, tv, etc...) in this idea that there in an unique and "defnitive" version of it.
"Its time for the Tomb Raider to move over, because Chloes got everything youd hope for in a heroine - video game or otherwise."
There.
It's not a competition. There isn't a finish line which only the "ultimate" female character will cross. I'm sure Chlore is a great character, just like Ellie was. And Lara Croft is too. And so many other female characters in gaming (I must mention Cate Archer).
There is no recept for a great heroine.
"Its time for the Tomb Raider to move over, because Chloes got everything youd hope for in a heroine - video game or otherwise."
There.
It's not a competition. There isn't a finish line which only the "ultimate" female character will cross. I'm sure Chlore is a great character, just like Ellie was. And Lara Croft is too. And so many other female characters in gaming (I must mention Cate Archer).
There is no recept for a great heroine.
Lara is sobbing one minute and the very next moment she is cracking necks and shooting arrows into eyeballs
Chloe has always been out for herself.
The way characters develop is an important aspect of accepting their killing.
This isn't about forcing female characters to compete with one another for the spotlight. This isn't about female characters having to fall into a pre-defined space of what makes them worth a damn.
Old Lara was a decidedly different character than who she became in the 2013 reboot. She went from this confident thrillseeker and adventurer, to being re-imagined as a fresh-faced scared student in the middle of a snuff film. And there's nothing wrong with wanting to portray a more human take on someone's origins like that. Hell, I loved the idea of reconceptualizing Tomb Raider into something more along the lines of The Descent. But the problem is they also did it extremely poorly. Lara in the last two games is neither more interesting or well-rounded. Camilla Luddington's vocal performance doesn't help, nor does her weightless dialogue. Her repeating "I can do this... I can do this..." again and again doesn't make her better as a character, nor does the inconsistent characterization of her crying about killing a deer in one scene, to smashing someone's face in with a pick-axe in only an hour's time.
New Lara is a bad character. She isn't without merit, atleast in theory. Crystal Dynamics stepping back from the brazenly overt sexualization atleast helped. But the writing around the character is so weak that it on its own doesn't really feel like an improvement over the shallow caricature she was before.
Chloe is being compared because a) Uncharted and TR have been compared for a decade, and are competing for the same space, and b) Chloe, in almost every way, is like someone took Old Lara, and chose to flesh out that character, and made that character actually interesting. And what we're left with is what a updated, matured take on original Lara Croft could've been.
This is an excellent post.
Basketball
Member
The original did not need fixing
She is the Lara Croft I want
She is the Lara Croft I want
ronaldthump
Member
its because claudia black and the script are A+ in their direction; hence the humanity. Also, Nadine's face on the back of the
don't click until you've finished - where she's showing sympathy and pathos is incredible.
The facial animation/mocap here is top notch
I think it was a reference to her complexity, humanity and depth as a character - steely and yet fragile all at once. I didn't read too much into it
elephant
The facial animation/mocap here is top notch
I think it was a reference to her complexity, humanity and depth as a character - steely and yet fragile all at once. I didn't read too much into it
Razgriz-Specter
Member
Chloe is great.
Yabberwocky
Member
I went to read the article, and it said there were mild spoilers for TLL. I didn't read further because I'm not very far into TLL, so obligatory comment without reading the article itself, because we all love those. (Are you there, God? It's me, Yabberwocky. It's been months since my last Reboot Lara Croft grumble...)
Both Aloy and Chloe (and Nadine) have been soothing balms to the deep seated bitter agony withing my gaming soul about Reboot Lara Croft. Insert super dramatic gif here, but for some reason, can't get any gifs to show up? Cue an even more dramatic gif at the lack of not being able to use a dramatic gif. I was aiming for Brendan Fraser crying in the sunset from Bedazzled, by the by. Reboot Lara being in pain and injured every other scene was so frustrating, coupled by voice work where it sounds like she's perpetually another painful set-piece away from an orgasm. (Runner up in that department is FFXIII's Vanille, and it's not that she's in pain, but more that she's just really, really, REALLY excited about combat and her Eidolon.)
There is a bit of a conundrum with the Reboot where they're trying to have their pulpy action adventure game with huge set-pieces, but yet still trying to make it more realistic simultaneously. It's a genre mishmash that isn't easy to do at the best of times, and I don't think the Reboot manages it at all. It doesn't really work when Lara should have died from the wound she gets at the very beginning of the first game. It makes every other injury or injury affecting gameplay disruption seems shallow and frustrating, and just feels like the moments are happening purely to put Lara through more pain. In comparison in UC2,
Nate might get some bruises, but he's not breaking a rib every other scene.
Also, Nate doesn't sound like he's just perpetually another broken set-piece away from an orgasm.
I will say I haven't played Rise - and had been cautiously optimistic when it was announced! - but then I spent a lot of time watching previews and gameplay excerpts (also a huge chunk of cutscenes) and couldn't really see what had improved in regards to my complaints with the first game. Awesome alternate costumes, though, some of these outfits are amazing.
I think Hellblade will also be an interesting compare/contrast to some of the tone CD seem to be going for with Reboot Tomb Raider - that being said, the genre and what Hellblade is setting out to achieve is obviously extremely different, and what Senua is going through is pretty horrific and extreme both mentally and potentially physically. I've only played a few minutes - haven't even heard Senua speak yet - but how amazing is the rest of the voice work, goddamn. From what I've seen of the game in previews and reviews, Hellblade doesn't feel exploitative with Senua, despite the extremely intense subject matter.
Yeeeessss. Playing as Aloy was amazingly refreshing and genuinely surreal. Thank you, GG!
Yes-yes-yes to all of the above. I loved the idea of the reboot, I was just really disappointed with its execution. The bolded in particular is what I find really disappointing.
Both Aloy and Chloe (and Nadine) have been soothing balms to the deep seated bitter agony withing my gaming soul about Reboot Lara Croft. Insert super dramatic gif here, but for some reason, can't get any gifs to show up? Cue an even more dramatic gif at the lack of not being able to use a dramatic gif. I was aiming for Brendan Fraser crying in the sunset from Bedazzled, by the by. Reboot Lara being in pain and injured every other scene was so frustrating, coupled by voice work where it sounds like she's perpetually another painful set-piece away from an orgasm. (Runner up in that department is FFXIII's Vanille, and it's not that she's in pain, but more that she's just really, really, REALLY excited about combat and her Eidolon.)
There is a bit of a conundrum with the Reboot where they're trying to have their pulpy action adventure game with huge set-pieces, but yet still trying to make it more realistic simultaneously. It's a genre mishmash that isn't easy to do at the best of times, and I don't think the Reboot manages it at all. It doesn't really work when Lara should have died from the wound she gets at the very beginning of the first game. It makes every other injury or injury affecting gameplay disruption seems shallow and frustrating, and just feels like the moments are happening purely to put Lara through more pain. In comparison in UC2,
Nate and his stomach wound change the gameplay for a time, but the rest of the time - despite the odd 'ow' and some grunts - it's played straight.
So when Nate is injured, genuinely injured, it's a huge shock, and it carries true weight.
I will say I haven't played Rise - and had been cautiously optimistic when it was announced! - but then I spent a lot of time watching previews and gameplay excerpts (also a huge chunk of cutscenes) and couldn't really see what had improved in regards to my complaints with the first game. Awesome alternate costumes, though, some of these outfits are amazing.
I think Hellblade will also be an interesting compare/contrast to some of the tone CD seem to be going for with Reboot Tomb Raider - that being said, the genre and what Hellblade is setting out to achieve is obviously extremely different, and what Senua is going through is pretty horrific and extreme both mentally and potentially physically. I've only played a few minutes - haven't even heard Senua speak yet - but how amazing is the rest of the voice work, goddamn. From what I've seen of the game in previews and reviews, Hellblade doesn't feel exploitative with Senua, despite the extremely intense subject matter.
sooo tired of this. loved aloy because of, among other things, the complete absence of this crap
Yeeeessss. Playing as Aloy was amazingly refreshing and genuinely surreal. Thank you, GG!
Yes-yes-yes to all of the above. I loved the idea of the reboot, I was just really disappointed with its execution. The bolded in particular is what I find really disappointing.
Someone hasnt been swimming with Lara in Rise of the Tomb Raider
get2sammyb
Member
It's definitely interesting how Chloe and Lara have an almost identical origin story, but only one is actually well written. What a difference it makes.
Nuno Pinto
Member
The writing of the new TR games is just incredibly bad, I like her design but it's hard to be seen as a good character with those writers lol
Always liked Chloe, can't wait to play this game in the near future. ND has been pretty good when it comes to this.
Always liked Chloe, can't wait to play this game in the near future. ND has been pretty good when it comes to this.
Mobile Suit Gooch
Grundle: The Awakening
Nah. Chloe is the Nathan Drake I want.
It's a weird statement, I know.
It's a weird statement, I know.
Haven't played Lost Legacy but I can see what they're getting at from playing UC2. TR is at an odd position where they're trying to push exposition and personal struggle but Lara contrasts all of that with her fighting strength. Oddly, she's sort of boring, particularly in Rise. The 'old' Croft had flair; a wise cracking acrobat with dual pistols. A paper thin caricature sure, but immediately more interesting than a pamphlet on depression and anger management that new Lara seems to represent.
I don't dislike new Lara, but Chloe does seem to be a more interesting representation of a similar role.
I don't dislike new Lara, but Chloe does seem to be a more interesting representation of a similar role.
Spiritwalker
Member
They're not wrong. Current Lara sucks ass.
Evolved1
make sure the pudding isn't too soggy but that just ruins everything
This summarizes most of my feelings.
ronaldthump
Member
Tomb Raiser is ridiculous anyhow. She gets a rebar in her side, she pulls it out and next minute she's spelunking and killing people and its like she was never injured. That's the real supernatural element there in the TR games; not that
weird storm
SofNasciment-
Member
I thought the article did give this feeling of competition and only one spot for the best female character of them all. I wasn't talking about any post here in particular.
About the rest of your post, I find it a fair assessment. Although I'd be less harsh on Lara. I can't say I loved the 2013 reboot story or Lara's characterization, but I thought in Rise they really imrproved both things. I found Lara to be quite a cool character in it and the story much improved compared to the previous game.
Give War A Chance
Member
It's not crazy, based on her characterization to see her kill a bunch of dudes.
apparently going from thief to mass murderer is fine. archaeologist to mass murderer no no
Not much makes sense about TR2013's characterization of Lara.
Inconsistent is the primary characteristic of the new Lara. I mean, headshotting enemies in the face with the bow will never get old, but there are so many cringe parts with the dialogue and delivery. You'd think after murdering 100 guys she would stop going "oh my god, oh my god." and just get shit done and deal with the feelings inwardly after the crisis. Sometimes I felt like I'm playing a psychopath to be honest where all the supposedly vulnerability is just on the surface and she's saying those things because she thinks that's what a normal person would do.
Moose Biscuits
It would be extreamly painful...
I liked old Lara: posh, wise-cracking and not afraid to murder endangered species with dual pistols.
Giftofgab24
Member
No. Chloe is Chloe. New Lara is new Lara and old Lara is old Lara. I like them just fine the way they are.
Without going into the specifics mentioned in the article and disregarding how potent/"vulnerable" these characters are, Chloe at least has a character. The major gripe I always had with new-Croft is that she's so blandly written and one-note. It's simply not interesting to hear her open her mouth and spout out rote lines. In that sense, Chloe is superior because she also has deeper ties to the mythology that The Lost Legacy examines.
the_darkness
Banned
Shame about the boring as batshit gameplay around her.
I mean this type of "It's time for Lara to move over" drivel, is nothing new.
I remember articles with this nonsense for Oni's Konoko, i remember them for Fear Effect's Ana.
Basically every other female main character who was half action star, half sexy lady, was supposed to take Lara's place for some reason.
Now it's more pointless than ever, because despite her legacy, Lara Croft is basically no one in the grand scheme of things, the new games are popular, but they don't occupy the spot the old ones used to have, in terms of gaming icons.
Not that i think Chloe will ever manage to occupy that spot, like all the other supposed substitutes before her, she'll come and go.
It's not her fault either, it's just that there isn't enough space for that type of icon and mascot, anymore.
Hell, even New Lara couldn't de-throne Old Lara, in terms of iconic status (when you ask people who they think of, when they hear the name Lara Croft, i'm sure they think about the PS1 era Lara).
Which isn't even a bad thing, since it was a stupid concept anyway.
We need interesting characters more than iconic mascots.
I remember articles with this nonsense for Oni's Konoko, i remember them for Fear Effect's Ana.
Basically every other female main character who was half action star, half sexy lady, was supposed to take Lara's place for some reason.
Now it's more pointless than ever, because despite her legacy, Lara Croft is basically no one in the grand scheme of things, the new games are popular, but they don't occupy the spot the old ones used to have, in terms of gaming icons.
Not that i think Chloe will ever manage to occupy that spot, like all the other supposed substitutes before her, she'll come and go.
It's not her fault either, it's just that there isn't enough space for that type of icon and mascot, anymore.
Hell, even New Lara couldn't de-throne Old Lara, in terms of iconic status (when you ask people who they think of, when they hear the name Lara Croft, i'm sure they think about the PS1 era Lara).
Which isn't even a bad thing, since it was a stupid concept anyway.
We need interesting characters more than iconic mascots.
ResidentDante
Member
Why not love both?
matrix-cat
Member
The Lara Croft I want specifically comes attached to a fun and challenging set of platforming controls and abilities, which none of the pretenders to the throne can lay claim to.
MetalliCabombination
Member
At chapter 5 right now and this game basically feels like tomb raider 3 hd without the tiger killing lol.
Seriously tho, why is modern lara so damn boring?
Seriously tho, why is modern lara so damn boring?
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