Gaming Journalism |OT| May contain trace amounts of games. Or journalism.

#51
Thats what forums like this are as you hear a gamers POV and not just another "WONT SOMEBODY THINK OF THE CHILDREN" shriek to get sensational hits in the hope of going viral.

The internet just proved that the the lowest common denominator always wins and that the global populace is generally full of useless cunts.
 
#53
Both sides are off the rails here.

It’s just a mobile game, this ain’t Diablo 4.

Only legitimate complain i can understand is the amount of time dedicated to announce this on Blizzcon, of all places. Most who pay to go there are PC gamers so i can understand.

But... no like? No play, wait for Diablo 4 which is still coming. Why would you want to play Immortal on PC knowing it’s a dumbed down Diablo?!
 

Woo-Fu

incest on the subway
#56
I assume these days most money in the game journalism industry comes from the game companies. This is the result of that. Journalists defending those who pay them.
It has always been that way for practically any industry-specific magazine. Ad revenue pays the bills, guess who buys ad-space? On top of that, getting the scoop, the exclusive looks, hands-on, etc., almost always require a good relationship with the publisher/developer in question and those are competitive advantages that are probably critical to survival. You don't maintain those relationships by biting the hand that feeds you.

As far as the OP goes, he answered his own question. Do we need game journalism detached from the gamers? Of course not. We don't need it, the publishers do.

Schreier is way off-base blaming the customers for any part of this situation. Blizzard hosts an event, charges admission, doesn't provide content that pleases their fanbase, then takes questions from their fanbase. The pushback is healthy, let's Blizzard know there are consequences to investing in new markets while appearing to ignore the markets that made the company what it is.

I really get a kick out of Schreier acting like Blizzard is an altruistic entity whose only goal is to entertain its fans. If that were actually true we wouldn't be having this discussion because a mobile game wouldn't have been the big announcement at their conventions for existing fans.
 
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Skyn3t

...still waiting to become self-aware
#57
I assume these days most money in the game journalism industry comes from the game companies. This is the result of that. Journalists defending those who pay them.
Yep, and that's the real problem. But who would want to pay some guys to write about games in the era of instant news, gameplay, reddits and stuff? Not me for sure, not to these guys who push the agenda of who pays them. But YouTube people, independent writers with real passion for gaming? We have Patreon to support them. Even though they commonly use populism to gain as much subs as they can and milk their audience via ad money, Patreon support. I miss old gaming mags where real video game maniacs spoke their mind about games. Without all that bullshit.
 

quest

Banned from OT
#58
Both sides are off the rails here.

It’s just a mobile game, this ain’t Diablo 4.

Only legitimate complain i can understand is the amount of time dedicated to announce this on Blizzcon, of all places. Most who pay to go there are PC gamers so i can understand.

But... no like? No play, wait for Diablo 4 which is still coming. Why would you want to play Immortal on PC knowing it’s a dumbed down Diablo?!
We have no idea if d4 is coming. This and the switch port could of been the multiple diablo projects with the d2 remaster.

People wasted money to attend this event expecting a d2 remastered announcement at a minimum. I would be pissed if i was one of them. This is 100% on blizzard for setting expectations way above the announcement level. Shame on them and they deserve blow back. They should said up front no diablo PC or console announcements ahead of time.
 
#60
"But do we really need it?"

Until you have a proper alternative that's not tarred with partisan politics (otherwise it will be the same problem in another way) and is all about games and doesn't take focus from them to unrelated matters, that's sadly what you have set up yourself for. And yes, I agree unified topics to discuss various topics like these would work wonders since it would otherwise turn into Gaming Politics Forum.

But instead of complaining, let's do something more productive, shall we? Let's listen to game journalists and see where they are coming from in their detachment from gamer interests. Game journalists sometimes actually address the gamer plebs to defend their incredibly biased and political ax-grinding controversy-hungry game coverage. Let's look at one such case, Destructoid's 100% objective game review "satire" by famed Jim Sterling, the paragon of consumer rights (can't even type this with a straight face).

Final Fantasy XIII is a videogame released on the PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360. It was developed by Square Enix. It stars characters. One of the characters is called Lightning and that is the main character of the game that can be played with a controller. The game's story is about Lightning and a collection of other characters who must fight some other characters called Fal'Sie and save a planet called Cocoon. The story has a beginning and an ending and a middle bit.


Final Fantasy XIII belongs to the role-playing-game genre of videogames, more specifically a genre that some people dub "JRPG" with "J" standing for Japanese. Final Fantasy XIII was developed in Japan which would make this genre designation accurate. The game has things in it that other JRPGs have, such as leveling up and weapons and shops.

The battle system is a battle system. In this battle system players select commands for one character while other characters are controlled by the game's AI. Players can manually designate commands or let the AI decide which course of action is best. There is a system called the Paradigm shift which is new to Final Fantasy XIII and it allows players to pre-program how characters behave and the player can swap these behavior patterns whenever they want during a battle to deal with different circumstances. Many people enjoy the Paradigm system, but other people do not like it so much.

Players have the ability to restart a battle if it does not go well which you may or may not find useful depending on your personal preference. You might also find weapon leveling useful but that's only if you find weapon leveling useful, so whether or not you find weapon leveling useful is down to how useful you ultimately find weapon leveling.

You can save the game if you want sometimes.

The videogame has graphics and sound. The graphics are seen with your eyes and the sound is heard by your ears. When you start the game the graphics and the sound will occur almost at the same time, letting you know that the game has started. There is also text which players can read.

If you buy Final Fantasy XIII and like it, then you like Final Fantasy XIII. If you buy Final Fantasy XIII and don't like it, then you don't like Final Fantasy XIII. It has things in it that some people might enjoy but other people who have different ideas of what is enjoyable may not actually enjoy it.

In conclusion, Final Fantasy XIII is a videogame.

Score: N/A (Since a reviewer would use his judgment to give a game a score, a score cannot be given at this time.)
So far, the gaming media's approach to addressing this issue was pretending that:
  • Objective reviews are impossible
  • Reviews that describe and evaluate the core experience are physically impossible if that's in a vacuum from political opinions and personal feelings
  • Scoring individual aspects of the experience didn't make sense, hence the gradual dropping of that evaluation system (Graphics/Gameplay/Story/Challenge)
  • It's about what the reviewer felt, not how helpful this would be to advise a potential player whether it's worth your time or not. Not mostly the former, exclusively the former.
A better approach that's objective (and isn't a wikipedia article about the JRPG videogame genre with circular grammar to pad the article like the satire above implies is the only way) is definitively possible. Acknowledging bias, and separating the author and the work, and separating politics from judging the artistic merits of a work (there's a reason why most art produced worldwide in WW2 wasn't destroyed), is possible as well. When rating boards have bullet point lists that evaluate certain aspects related to morality in games, that also makes it possible indeed to have a bullet point list that evaluate parts of the experience more relevant to gamers. Maybe hiring someone who doesn't like a genre or hates some games to review them won't result in a review that's particularly useful for that readership, other than self-masturbatory columns written by and to people who like to complain about games more than playing them.

You can look up early examples of game journalism from the nineties and take inspiration from that to start something new.
 
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quest

Banned from OT
#61
Wait, what, you have to pay to attend Blizzcon?
From blizcon wiki yes couple hundred.

For 2014, the price was raised to $199and the BlizzCon Benefit Dinner went from $500 to $750, which includes admission. From 2015 to 2018, the prices have remained at the 2014 level
 
#62
We have no idea if d4 is coming. This and the switch port could of been the multiple diablo projects with the d2 remaster.

People wasted money to attend this event expecting a d2 remastered announcement at a minimum. I would be pissed if i was one of them. This is 100% on blizzard for setting expectations way above the announcement level. Shame on them and they deserve blow back. They should said up front no diablo PC or console announcements ahead of time.
And lose out on many $200 ticket sales... now why would they go and do that? :pie_smirking:
 
#63
We have no idea if d4 is coming. This and the switch port could of been the multiple diablo projects with the d2 remaster.

People wasted money to attend this event expecting a d2 remastered announcement at a minimum. I would be pissed if i was one of them. This is 100% on blizzard for setting expectations way above the announcement level. Shame on them and they deserve blow back. They should said up front no diablo PC or console announcements ahead of time.
Inherent problem. Going to Blizzcon for a D2 remaster announcement. Man wait that out in your couch.
 
#64

Hmm, "I'm not sure what to tell you." Why does this sound so familiar?

Oh right. Because it's the exact same line Jason Schreier used when he was whining about media outlets reporting on the private Quinn scandal, and someone pointed out that not long before that, he reported on a private Facebook conversation between two people in the gaming industry. He even tried to call the dude to ask "why did you send inappropriate sexual messages to a lady on Facebook in private messages".

Fuck Jason Schreier. The dude's a tryhard who flipflops between whatever social issue can currently score him the most brownie points. When he says "then I don't know what to tell you", what he actually means is "shit you caught me and I literally don't know how to talk my way out of this."

Why anyone takes him serious is beyond me. The dude's a complete joke.
 
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#65
From blizcon wiki yes couple hundred.

For 2014, the price was raised to $199and the BlizzCon Benefit Dinner went from $500 to $750, which includes admission. From 2015 to 2018, the prices have remained at the 2014 level
Honestly, if attendees can accept these prices to be blessed with the privilege of watching Blizzard's shitty PR in person, they almost had it coming. With that much money, they are enabling Blizzard's abuse.
 
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Skyn3t

...still waiting to become self-aware
#66
Wow, shit, I though Blizzcon is some kind of fanfest with no to little entry fee. This is insane, one of the welthiest companies in the industry milking that fanbase like a champ. Pretty sad.
 
#67
Wow, shit, I though Blizzcon is some kind of fanfest with no to little entry fee. This is insane, one of the welthiest companies in the industry milking that fanbase like a champ. Pretty sad.
They also have a digital paywall to watch the conferences live.
 
#68
Honestly, if attendees can accept these prices to be blessed with the privilege of watching Blizzard's shitty PR in person, they almost had it coming. With that much money, they are enabling Blizzard's abuse.
Conventions are more than just this. The host has to pay the venue, they have to hire security and an entire team to run the thing, pay for setup/clean up, pay fees and taxes, and they often have shows, parties, dances, panels etc. It's not just a PR push -- it's a fun place to hang out with people interested in the same things you are, or to forge new business connections and contacts. This is not defending their price point or their ultimate goal to push their products and brand (which it is), just a little info to suggest that a convention is big business with big associated costs that go with it.
 
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#70
Schreier is such a sanctimonious tool.

Anyway, to the question, no, not really. YouTube and twitch are far more influential these days. I think that’s part of the reason the ‘journalists’ are so insufferable. They’re in 100k of college debt and earning a fifth of what some cheerful teenager gets playing games on Twitch.

No wonder they’re so bitter.
 
#71
Their attitude always boils down to "fuck off" with these shitheads, they're the ones who need to fuck off.

If you present an argument and people poke holes in that argument and you can't handle that and just want to tell everyone to fuck off, congratulations, you are the toxic asshole, not everyone else.

Remember a time before the internet? When us gamers did not have the ability to hate on each other over long distances, and could instead play video games with people we really knew in life, instead of complete strangers? Remember a time from before the alt right V the Left? before the times of sjw's V anti sjws? before jack thompson, anita sarkeesian, brianna wu, laci greene, zoe quinn, brian mcintosh, gamergate, the mary sue, their fans and their haters? before the dark times. before the empire. pepperridge farms remembers. I miss those days. When gaming was actually about gaming, not all this extra S***.
Even the days of Jack Thompson weren't so bad because every gamer was united against him.

But you're right, it's actually bizarre how politicized this hobby has become, TV, books and movies aren't quite this way and it's taken a lot of the fun out of gaming.

I was reading about the Wind Waker "controversy" last night. Back when gamers expected a realistic Zelda and got WW, people complained (there was a boycott campaign and while social media wasn't a thing, there were many angry message board posts) , and the game was pejoratively dubbed "Cellda" by many fans.

But you know, I don't remember games journalists at the time going to bat this hard for the corporation that feeds them. EGM had an editor debate about the new direction in the magazine, some said it was cool, some said "it's just not Zelda." The journalists certainly weren't telling their audience to "fuck right off" for their opinions.

I guess Jason would say it's less the opinion than the over the top entitled reactions (seriously, guys, he understands why you might not like it! But your organised twitter harassment campaign must end!!).
I'd say the solution for that is to disengage with social media, but no one is capable of that. Pre social media internet, the WW controversy didn't work people up into raging furies. Social media is cancer.
Controversies were always handled in a level headed back in the day, it would have been very interesting to see how Gamergate for example would have played out had it happened in say 2007 and not 2014 (it would have been very different)
 
#75
These idiots lack any self-awareness. So the disappointed guy at Blizzcon is obnoxious, but Schreier telling him and anyone who agrees with him to "fuck off" is not being an obnoxious asshole?

And he gets in the feels about the Diablo devs being "publicly belittled" (come on man), but he feels comfortable publicly telling people to fuck off? Even the person that they are overreacting to didn't stand up at the conf and say "Hey guys, fuck off".

Just who in the fuck do these people think they are?
I came here to say this, but Digital beat me to it.

I mean...how industry people conduct themself online today is crazy. As a teacher, I feel as though I’d be hung out to dry if parents see me posting this kind of shit on social media (luckily I don’t engage in any form of social media for that reason)
 
#76


Corporations good, players bad. Discuss.
if he thinks it is savagery, then he obviously wasn't there when the whole world basked xbone with its 24 hours online only. then again this jason who thought the sorcerer from dragon's crown is appealing to pedos because she has huge breast. i don't know how he reached to that conclusion but that's his IQ.
 
#78
Yes, we badly need it. Schreier is a fucking hack, but don't let him trick you into thinking it doesn't matter or that we shouldn't demand better. We're so used to the piss poor quality of journalism that gaming gets that it's numbing, but fight back that feeling. Even places in other entertainment areas that are really political, like AVClub or shit like that, usually shit out a quality piece or two. These assholes are unable to even luck into an actual article.

My suggestion would be just ignore these people. Pretend they're not even there. Recommend others to do the same. Don't harass or "harass" them, they feed on that. Heck they still have a job because of that. They will go away, believe that.
 
#79
I’ve stopped visiting “professional” gaming news sites for years now, probably after the giant bomb thing related to the army of two review.

Yes we can do without professional gaming news and journalists places like GAF and Reddit and YouTube are proof of this. We just need some kind of unified ratings board to see actual gamers review scores for games - I suppose metacritic or a gaming version of rotten tomatoes would be the solution.

Diablo mobile is going to be their mass effect andromeda. They should focus on Diablo 4 and scrap their mobile game but they most likely won’t because they are tone deaf
 
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#80
I cut myself of from pretty much all of it now, I used to listen to the bombcast and beastcast and visit sites all the time.

I've never been happier though, if I see a game I want I buy it, I don't need someone who cares more about pushing an agenda telling me about what to buy.
 

Skyn3t

...still waiting to become self-aware
#82
Well, I only browse GAF and Reddit (only reading headlines most of the time, no clicks for Kotaku's and shitholes like that from me). Lately used to check ResetEra.live, but amount of bullshit threads, sjw outrages made me back on GAF. Is Smash Ultimate racist? For fuck sake...
 
#83
while i can understand that those poor developers had nothing to do with the decision made by the company to make a mobile game, there was also no one else to direct that question to.

all in all i think the devs will survive that awkward moment and the guy delivered it's message, so i don't really see the big problem.

also, yeah maybe fans are a lil too passionate..but blizzard fostered that same reverence and hype culture themselves, so they can't really complain only when it bites them in the ass.
 
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#84
This Jason Schreirer obviosuly hasn't been to any company stockholder meetings having Q&A. Pissed stockholders ask questions stumping the execs all the time. Then the execs do their dog and pony show hoping to soothe the crowd.

As as usual, the response will be some longwinded answer.

Yet, I have have never ever heard any industry rep ever tell a stockholder to fuck off.
 
#86
I mean...probably not. Even when they do have an actual story for the world, they tend to twist it and foul the message. The rest is all manufactured or riding whatever social media trend is popular.You have to wonder if there any games journalists out there who don't have their heads up their asses, but will never write for the big sites because of that fact.
 
#87
I mean...probably not. Even when they do have an actual story for the world, they tend to twist it and foul the message. The rest is all manufactured or riding whatever social media trend is popular.You have to wonder if there any games journalists out there who don't have their heads up their asses, but will never write for the big sites because of that fact.
Most of the so called game journalist and editors are not that IMO.

To me, journalism is more like the news reporters or undercover person doing independent work or digging for stories and material to come up with interesting articles. Calling for news, getting cool info from contacts and leads, and having enough smarts to get that awesome info on your own or working with a team to get it.

Gaming guys are not that. They might do reviews, but considering most of them work for sites or popular bloggers/streamers, they get paid to promote their game, get free games, and all kinds of scratch my back I'll scratch yours promotional material, there is basically no independent thought.

When any so-called gaming journalist has to follow NDA and preview protocol what to write or else get denied access or banned, shows they are really just paid puppets.

That's why almost every site has no balls to give games a 5/10 or less anymore like the old days where gaming mags gave 3/10s and PC Gamer would give shit games 18%/100. Very hard to get 8/10. And rare to see 9s and 10s. Now, almost every game gets a minimum of around a 65% score?

Too much free product, too important access to previews, and too much banner ad money floating around.
 
#88
if he thinks it is savagery, then he obviously wasn't there when the whole world basked xbone with its 24 hours online only. then again this jason who thought the sorcerer from dragon's crown is appealing to pedos because she has huge breast. i don't know how he reached to that conclusion but that's his IQ.
I remember that thread. It was fucking painful to read his shit.
It just boiled down to "I don't like it".

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/g-ka...rticle-on-dragons-crown-slightly-nsfw.545124/
 
#89
I never never knew jason was such a tit.
I makes sense tho to get a white card with devs.
As he depends on inside info from them.
 
#93
This Jason Schreirer obviosuly hasn't been to any company stockholder meetings having Q&A. Pissed stockholders ask questions stumping the execs all the time. Then the execs do their dog and pony show hoping to soothe the crowd.
But that's the right kind of entitlement.
When woke indie developers go out of business and start insulting audiences, or aren't doing so well and don't understand basic concepts about the market place so they want the marketplace to be closed down to everyone but privileged access media darlings (Polygon's calls to get Steam to go back to "curation") and close reviews, comments and refunds because those dumb consumers not giving them money immediately to get products not aimed at that consumer, is an infamy, that's also the right kind of entitlement.
Game journalism outrage at a given game's lack of political kissing of the ring is another example of correct entitlement.

Consumers aren't entitled dissatisfaction at what they spend money on. They need to know their right place and be good whales, not disturb the PR cycle for this game with their shitty worthless opinions that they won't buy the game.

Trying to rationalize this madness aside, it sure is worrying that a lot of game journalists are fantasizing about getting red shirt guy and people who cheered for him or didn't laugh at the "joke" (not the announcement itself, "don't y'all have a phone?") kicked out, punched and physically agressed. What a worrisome way to handle dissent.
 
#94
The NPC idiot (schreier) blocked me on twitter because I uncovered his hypocrisy and stupidity with facts. I'm laughing so hard right now.

And this is what they call journalist, yes? A corporate shill and feminazi ally who doesn't like when people disagree with him and blocks everyone calling out his bullshit.

How do they still have readers? I honestly can't figure it out.
 
#96
I have to say that I was really angry with the reaction to No Man's Sky. Sean Murray created a random planet generation engine, including plants and animals, from scratch, an incredible accomplishment. Like, how entitled can people be? I think they should have spent more time developing it, but people harassed him on twitter for delaying it in the first place. Then the bitch about it when it comes out unfinished. What do people want?
 
#97
But you know, I don't remember games journalists at the time going to bat this hard for the corporation that feeds them.
That's entirely because, like you said yourself, social media wasn't really a thing back then.

Social media is the sole cause of all of this, and its effects extend far beyond just journalism. Thanks to social media, people have been provided with easily accesible means with which to expose themselves to nothing but personal affirmation and validation at all times.

People are drowning themselves in confirmation bias, and it has ruined their ability to think critically.
 
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#98
Journalist should just write about what happen. Giving AN OPINION is not part of a journalist job.
Not sure I agree there. Journalism has the capability to be a force for good. I remember the days when RPS used to rail against microtransactions and other anti-consumer practices (and indeed they still rail against pre-ordering). What's needed is not journalists avoiding opinions, but better journalists who's interests better reflect those of their audience.
 
#99
Hmm, "I'm not sure what to tell you." Why does this sound so familiar?
It's the exact same tone, the same shit, I'd expect to hear from Walker at RPS. It's like they're all literally the same person. They all speak identically. I mean like literal clones. And people wonder why the NPC thing happened.
 
Game journalism is dead, well journalism as a whole is dead. These people should go into real careers. None of these journos will be missed if they do. They aren't even competent at the games they are supposed to be an authority on. Most Youtubers are at least that.
 
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