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(Gamingfront) PS4 Plan: Twice the power of PS3 @ much lower cost, FEWER SPEs?

camineet

Banned
Mar 30, 2007
8,073
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Log4Girlz said:
I mean the basic idea for Sony next-gen is to reboot the playstation name. Its got a bit of mud on it now and needs a clean up. They could even do this with the exact same hardware. They need to focus on a different market. Unfortunately Wii has taken up the casual market and Sony is splitting the HD market with MS. They need a cheap entry with tons of casual games. If anyone can do it Sony can. Though a PS3 redesign wouldn't be a bad idea.

If I were running Sony right now I would be focusing on getting the component costs to a lower price (which is naturally going to happen with time since the PS3 isn't a total bomb in sales), but I wouldn't lower the price of the original sku's, I would let the distribution channels run completely dry then relaunch the PS3 with a slim version with waggle wand in box for the lowest price I could afford (hopefully $299 or less).

I would have dozens of cheap, almost flash quality games to conincide with new hardware. Gamers who already own a PS3 just have to buy a new controller if they want to enjoy the new games I would be cranking out. I think that could really boost sales and they could eat away at MS' marketshare for the rest of the generation and help delay releasing a PS4.

That would create fail of EPIC proportions :lol :lol :lol :lol
 

Trailblazer

Banned
Feb 19, 2007
419
0
0
H_Prestige said:
Is a ps3 slim possible with 45nm Cell or would that require 32nm?

With just a 45nm Cell ? No. But I believe Sony will "Re-launch" the PS3 with a Slim model once Cell and RSX hit 45nm.

The PS2 did not get a slim Model until they combined the EE and GS on a single die at 90nm.
Although combining Cell and RSX on a single die might be in the PS3's future, it would have to be at the 32nm process or else it would be a fucking huge and hot chip( a little over 500 million transistors) . And i don't believe Sony is willing to wait until they're able to fab Cell/RSX on a single die at 32nm, at god enough yields before the launch a PS3 slim model.
 

Averon

Member
Aug 27, 2008
10,060
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1,080
Even though the PS3 has been a money pit for Sony this generation, the PS3 created an excellent platform for Sony to build off of for future consoles. By 2011/2012, Cell chips and Blue-Ray drives will be a whole lot cheaper, which will greatly help keep production costs down. Plus, it also gives Sony an advantage in development, since developers will be very comfortable working on Cell by then. The only really new stuff I can see in the PS4 is a new custom Nvidia GPU, flash storage (if it's cheap enough) and a controller redesign.
 

Durante

Member
Oct 1, 2006
48,836
1
0
peter.metaclassofnil.com
Trailblazer said:
With just a 45nm Cell ? No. But I believe Sony will "Re-launch" the PS3 with a Slim model once Cell and RSX hit 45nm.
It really depends on what you consider "slim". I doubt PS3 will ever get as small as PS2 slim (except with 10 years life cycle! :lol) but they could make a version that's a bit smaller than the original PS2 and it would already be quite slim in comparison.
 

epmode

Member
Jun 7, 2004
28,470
0
0
Durante said:
I own one actually.

Anyway, increasing model complexity and texture/shader detail requires infinitely more developer time than simply increasing the IQ, so if you're worried about devs wasting time you should agree with me.
I'm worried about them wasting time optimizing a game for proper AA/AF/IQ/WTF (when no one but a few GAF posters/devs will care) when they should be spending time making the game look AWESOME.
 

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
Jun 8, 2004
43,345
2
1,645
camineet said:
Sony said PS2 is 300 times more powerful than PS1.

Sony & IBM said PS3 is 35 times more powerful than PS2.

Just a side note, but..

That was purely just a floating point comparison between CPUs.

Given EE encompassed part of the GPU in PS2, really, it's not even a fair comparison for PS3.

The GPU in PS3 makes the practical difference likely even larger, forgetting about architectural differences within the CPU alone that would make it realistically more powerful than the paper comparison suggests. (In real world examples, Cell has often outperformed much more contemporary CPUs than EE by factors beyond what the paper difference would suggest).

As for PS4, I would hope for something that's 'overall' around 4 times more capable in real terms. That kind of difference, according to Jon Olick (ex-Naughty Dog, currently at iD), would be 'enough' to support id's next generation of tech, a proper generational leap in geometry complexity. They hope with their next engine, artists can completely forget about texture and geometry budgets and limitations, at 1080p/60.

edit - I guess I should link to Olick's presentation at Siggraph last year for anyone interested:

http://s08.idav.ucdavis.edu/olick-current-and-next-generation-parallelism-in-games.pdf

I guess it's interesting as one developer's current view of how things might go. References a demo you can find on youtube too.

Also has details on some of the stuff he's been doing for id Tech 5 on Cell, specifically with graphics.
 

Trailblazer

Banned
Feb 19, 2007
419
0
0
Durante said:
It really depends on what you consider "slim". I doubt PS3 will ever get as small as PS2 slim (except with 10 years life cycle! :lol) but they could make a version that's a bit smaller than the original PS2 and it would already be quite slim in comparison.

The mombo's inside the PS3's sold today are already much smaller then my 60 gig launch model. They could already be "Slimmer". With 45nm cell dropping around April, and a 45 nm RSX possibly at the end of this year I wouldn't be surprised to see a PS3 slim at E3 2010
 

Log4Girlz

Member
May 23, 2006
40,784
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0
camineet said:
That would create fail of EPIC proportions :lol :lol :lol :lol

People said that of Nintendo's strategy. Sony's focus on HD hasn't proven successful. When I say flash quality, I don't mean literally flash, I mean super simple games anyone can wrap their brain around and that doesn't cost an arm and a leg to make, sorry for the confusion lol.
 

avaya

Member
Oct 3, 2007
10,663
0
0
London
Log4Girlz said:
People said that of Nintendo's strategy. Sony's focus on HD hasn't proven successful. When I say flash quality, I don't mean literally flash, I mean super simple games anyone can wrap their brain around and that doesn't cost an arm and a leg to make, sorry for the confusion lol.

This generation is an aberration.
 

Trailblazer

Banned
Feb 19, 2007
419
0
0
daCuk said:
Where is camineet when you need him to debunk this crap?...

Besides form the Xbox part what he said isn't crap. The Wii is NOT twice the power if a Gamecube. Not on in any real world applications.
 

Kolgar

Member
Oct 24, 2004
4,169
0
0
SCE, the current generation of game consoles, is struggling big pinch. Although the situation is being improved, the Nintendo Wii is the purpose behind the current generation of machines that carve up the market. Put in a huge investment, high costs and high prices put the PS3 in a predicament because, SCE’s PLAYSTATION strategy, is being forced to change. The traditional game, "winning equation" because it would have been destroyed.

Wii is carving up the market, indeed.

If you apply the lessons of the Xbox 360, SCE will have to invest ahead of the next car. The game is to start shipping products from the actual chip development for at least three years, four years is usually required. For example, SCE is attempting to launch in the year 2011 if a plan is quite urgent. The best way to fast development is to improve the existing architecture.

Interesting.

Cell BE-based PS4 has emerged of the plan, SCE’s PLAYSTATION strategy. The company has already expanded the concept to be stalling over its failure PS3 merit, PS4 seen signs have a plan. However, too much to keep HADOUEASUPEKKU, PS3 fails to differentiate themselves from the generation, PS4 may fail to start. PS4, it will be passed on to less version, Wii points will be added to one or the other HADOSUPEKKU like a charm.

What?
 

Brimstone

my reputation is Shadowruined
Jun 19, 2004
3,719
0
0
gofreak said:
As for PS4, I would hope for something that's 'overall' around 4 times more capable in real terms. That kind of difference, according to Jon Olick (ex-Naughty Dog, currently at iD), would be 'enough' to support id's next generation of tech, a proper generational leap in geometry complexity. They hope with their next engine, artists can completely forget about texture and geometry budgets and limitations, at 1080p/60.

edit - I guess I should link to Olick's presentation at Siggraph last year for anyone interested:

http://s08.idav.ucdavis.edu/olick-current-and-next-generation-parallelism-in-games.pdf

I guess it's interesting as one developer's current view of how things might go. References a demo you can find on youtube too.

Also has details on some of the stuff he's been doing for id Tech 5 on Cell, specifically with graphics.

Sony should make it a priority to develop an excellent working relationship with ID Software.
 

Rolf NB

Member
Apr 22, 2007
12,914
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0
Brimstone said:
Sony should make it a priority to develop an excellent working relationship with ID Software.
Sony should have made an effort to keep Renderware alive and kicking this generation.
 

-viper-

Banned
Jul 7, 2007
10,352
1
0
daCuk said:
Where is camineet when you need him to debunk this crap?...
So the Wii is more powerful than the Xbox?

Didn't know that. I just assumed the Xbox had superior hardware considering how much better the games look.

As far as I can tell, there isn't anything on the Wii that looks better than games such as Riddick, Splinter Cell Chaos Theory, Ninja Gaiden, Halo 2 etc.

And if the Wii really is twice as powerful as the GC, none of the games seem to suggest this is the case. Some of the best looking GC games look as good as 'the best looking Wii games'. For example, REmake and RE4 look phenomenal and there is nothing on the Wii which is clearly superior than those games in terms of visuals.
 

Brimstone

my reputation is Shadowruined
Jun 19, 2004
3,719
0
0
megateto said:
I think it deserves a proper link: Sparse Voxel Octree (SVO) Demo by Jon Olick

Can somebody explain in layman terms what it does?


With RAGE they are using Megatexture technology. They are compressing the textures of the game world to gain more detail. When artists texture the world they don't have to be too concenrned about how much texture detail they use.


One of the goals of IDs next-gen game engine technology is to compress the geometry data of the game world as well. That way artists don't have to worry about limits to how polygons are being used when they model the game world.



Blu-Ray becomes usefull because the size of game data is growing larger. By the time the PS4 gets released the games using ID tech will be well over 25 gigs. Probably close to 50 gigs and the the PS4 might be able to handle quad-layer Blu-Ray discs.
 

J-Rzez

Member
Oct 19, 2005
14,485
3
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They'll be in good shape next time. They have their base set with Cell, Blu Ray will be defacto and cheap, this would hopefully allow them to invest into copious amounts of RAM, and try to maintain a lower launch cost.