Thought she was Canadian..?
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Gender-based Finnish Gaming Tournaments taking place per backward IeSF regulations
- Thread starter Soi-Fong
- Start date
Thought she was Canadian..?
michaelius
Banned
Why are e-sports gender segregated at all ?
There should be absolutly no diffrence in skills beetween genders in them anyway.
There should be absolutly no diffrence in skills beetween genders in them anyway.
But isn't that a problem in itself? Why is there no main tournament that females can participate in?
Sub_Level
wants to fuck an Asian grill.
They can always create a small side tournament for women only while also allowing women to enter the main tournament who want to try their luck and test their xXskillzXx.
Isn't there a proven difference in reaction time between genders? I would think that still plays a factor in some videogames. Certainly stuff like Quake, Starcraft, and Street Fighter. Maybe not Heartstone lol. Like I said tho, they should still be allowed entrance to the main tournament.
Isn't there a proven difference in reaction time between genders? I would think that still plays a factor in some videogames. Certainly stuff like Quake, Starcraft, and Street Fighter. Maybe not Heartstone lol. Like I said tho, they should still be allowed entrance to the main tournament.
chrominance
Member
There's two things going on in that story. The original page Reddit found was for a Finnish regional tournament that said it was male-only. The organizer of the Finnish tourney said they made it male-only because it's a qualifier for an international tournament run by the IeSF, and the IeSF set the male-only rule for its own tourney. The Finnish tourney then made its own male-only rule because they didn't want the potential case of declaring a female player a winner, but then have her unable to compete in the international tournament she qualified for just because she was a woman. FWIW the Finnish organization hosting the tournament says it's lobbied for equal gender representation in the IeSF, apparently to no avail so far.
tl;dr: Finnish tourney is male-only because the IeSF tourney it sends its winners to is also male-only, and the Finns don't want to declare a winner who is ineligible for the IeSF tourney. Still sucks, and the Finns could take a stand here, but at least more understandable. The IeSF can still go screw themselves, though; they can't pass the buck like the Finns did.
There are, but a) there are fewer female-only events at the IeSF tournament, and b) each gender only has access to certain games. Women can't compete in a Hearthstone tournament, for example, despite there being absolutely no stated reason for blocking this. It's worth noting that athletic sports have similar issues from time to time, but in most cases there's at least a pretense given; women's ski jumping was barred from the Olympics until Sochi 2014 because the IOC said there weren't enough competitors and they were concentrated in too few countries to make it viable. Even this was controversial for a time (and came before Canadian courts when Vancouver held the games), and Sochi had women's ski jumping as a medal sport.
OK, that cinches it. I must be having fever medicine induced hallucinations. There is no way anyone would be stupid enough to do that, and even less of a chance for them to do the "promoting serious esports" bit as reason. That's just insane.
Brain, what the hell is wrong with you today.
Brain, what the hell is wrong with you today.
I think a woman kicking ass in the tournament would do just fine, more excuses for blatant sexism.
What's funny to me is I thought I read somewhere that females have superior hand-eye coordination to males? Unsure if true, too lazy to check.
Apparently, the tournament finals are in Azerbaijan (sp?), so that's why it's sexist. Or something.
SolidSnakex
Member
Is that true? Because that seems extraordinarily stupid (much like this decision)?
Poodlestrike
Banned
Now my day is a little bit dumber, thanks for bringing this to my attention OP. 
But seriously though, I can't even fathom any good reason for this.
But seriously though, I can't even fathom any good reason for this.
That's exactly what i was googling for, to see how (and why) Chess handled it.
And it that case it seems like WWCC was made because Chess was less popular among women (i guess for cultural reasons) and therefore as a more entry level tournament.
But i don't see a reason to separate genders, if there isn't testosterone/obvious physical advantage involved.
As far as i understand, there is a female only tournament, and a general tournament where everyone can apply, that it's mostly men, simply because the sport in more popular among them, which is why the female only one was made(?).
Not sure, maybe someone more informed than going to Google and Yahoo answer, can shed some light, lol.
bobbychalkers
Member
This...is pretty fucking dumb.
Its not some full contact sport, were talking about hitting buttons. No sense in separating women and men for any game.
Its not some full contact sport, were talking about hitting buttons. No sense in separating women and men for any game.
Yea that statement is so ridiculous I don't even know where to start. Above me someone mentioned that the tournament the winners go to is male-only, so I guess that's the reason? Ludicrous either way and a terrible statement all around.
Women's intuition leads to more powerful top-decking strats
Avallon
Member
OK, so here's what I'm gathering from this:
They have a male and female division for e-sports that emulates that of the NBA, MLB, etc.
There is no female division for Hearthstone.
There is no male division for Tekken.
I'm not sure if this is sexist or not, but those seem to be the facts. The OP's title is a bit hyperbolic.
They have a male and female division for e-sports that emulates that of the NBA, MLB, etc.
There is no female division for Hearthstone.
There is no male division for Tekken.
I'm not sure if this is sexist or not, but those seem to be the facts. The OP's title is a bit hyperbolic.
BumblebeeCody
Member
OK I understand that. But then I ask the question. Why are there two different tournaments? D:
No. That's simply wrong, there. Women can be world chess champion.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
That is equally as dumb
You can make the argument for fighters, should the genre ever get big enough to support a separate tournament. Reaction times are super-important, and its a genre that has a difficult time featuring and promoting female competitors.
It's not a hand-eye thing, it's a "+X frames reaction time" advantage thing. If you google "reaction time male female", there's a lot of documentation on it.
quickwhips
Member
WTF I use to do MLG for halo 3 and we got our asses handed to us by an all girl team one time and they shit talked the same as any guy at the end of the tournament...I say let the girls play with the guys.
Sub_Level
wants to fuck an Asian grill.
Fix this shit DICE.
Not at all. At least, not in the US. For example, if you look at the history of Title IX (in the US), it has everything to do with inclusion and fair treatment rather than with any assumed "natural physical" differences.
But it does have female competitors. A good number of them in fact.
If Sherry Jenix went over to compete in USF4, she wouldn't be able/allowed to compete? Am I reading this right? Or she could compete, and if she came first, she would not be able to progress to nationals and the brackets would just shift up?
Also are you suggesting that women would worse reaction times than men?
aygomyownroad
Member
I support these rules... I don't want to be beaten by a girl!
Serious note, why are there less games For females? There should be no gender divide as e-Sports is a relatively new thing and should pave the way for equality
Serious note, why are there less games For females? There should be no gender divide as e-Sports is a relatively new thing and should pave the way for equality
What is? That men and women play together? What's the problem if there is no obvious and consistent skill advantage dictated by gender?
Their natural mothering instincts however prove quite the disadvantage when faced up with the types of man-babies I've played Hearthstone with.
-.-
Huh? Not defending this stupid backwards misogynistic setup. It'd be like in Poker/Chess/Golf, where they can compete in one or both.
There is a gender gap in reaction times. I'm not pulling it out of my butt.
For some reason I always think she is French, but she is french Canadian. You are right.
She isn't Protoss though
Women's Ultimate Mahvel 3 Championship? I like how that sounds.
Yeah, that's where it gets fucked up.
Yeah, that's where it gets fucked up.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Sorry, I misread that. I had read a different quote somewhere saying chess was separated by gender, and my mind slipped into thinking that one said the same thing
The point they are trying to make is that international sports regulations have competitions split by genders, and in order to be seen as more legitimate, they are adhering to current rules and regulations. Some chess tournaments ARE segregated (though not all and there have been female grandmasters). I can understand them doing everything they can do to make e-sports seem legitimate.... BUT
A) e-sports are an easy target as it is a non-contact sport and requires no athleticism, ergo the split seems ridiculous
B) the attempt to make e-sports as a legitimate sport seems fairly moot to me. People already put up money for the tournaments and it being "officially" a sport still won't sway the opinions of the general public.
A) e-sports are an easy target as it is a non-contact sport and requires no athleticism, ergo the split seems ridiculous
B) the attempt to make e-sports as a legitimate sport seems fairly moot to me. People already put up money for the tournaments and it being "officially" a sport still won't sway the opinions of the general public.
Interfectum
Member
Blizzard CMs gonna be having a long day.
There's no reason to believe that two people who are well-practiced at a game would have dramatically different reaction times, as anyone who is practiced enough to enter a tournament should be. These aren't just random people off the street with no experience.
SolidSnakex
Member
That's what I figured, and obviously that makes far more sense. There's nothing about your gender that's going to give you an advantage in chess just like you aren't going to get an advantage in a videogame based on your gender. You're just pressing buttons/keys or clicking a mouse.
If anything this is hurting their cause of getting it recognized as a real sport because they (the people running this thing) think it's comparable to the NFL, NBA, or soccer.
They're the upper outliers in a game where those fractions of a second actually matter. In general, it's not going to matter (Kadey's got WAY better reactions than my slow ass) but at the upper bound I think you can potentially see an issue there.
Someone didn't watch MLG Anaheim! I'd look for the highlights, but I'm on mobile. She took a game from another Zerg player by briefly switching to Protoss and dumbfounding everyone present in the process.She isn't Protoss though
It was top notch entertainment.
Right, I think if that was the case here, no one would be complaining.
There's an explicit difference between having a women's tournament and also a mixed gender tournament in an event where men are the vast majority of the participants versus excluding women from the men's tournament.
One seeks to get more women into the main tournament by offering a tournament environment to play in prior. The other seeks to exclude women from the tournament that's going to be the attention getter.
I was busy watching World Cup and SGDQ, you are right.
I will definitely check out the highlights. Thanks.
Yep, that's the huge problem. The organizers want to promote eSports as a "real" sport and for some reason they think that in order to accomplish this they need to seperate the tournaments by gender (like in Football or other physical sports), even though there's no logical reason why a division by gender would be necessary in eSports. So, Hearthstone is male-only while a game like Tekken TT2 is female-only. Why there's no Hearthstone tournament for females (and no Tekken tournament for males) is a mystery in its own right.
Like I said before, I don't think the organizers had bad intentions in mind and I don't think they wanted to discrimate against anyone based on gender, I think it's "just" a really silly and kinda dumb interpretation of what a "professional sport" is supposed to be on their part. Hopefully the public discussion will change their way of looking at this. It would also be a good start if they at least offer all games to both genders, even if they still want to have a male and a female division.