Genderfield V: The saga continues

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Believeability is about coherence, less about realism or authenticity.
Nope. You cant have believabilty without a certain amount of authenticity. Again, nobody is asking for 100%, so just forget about that. Its this balance thats messed up in BFV. Come on man, do you really not understand this?
 
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Nope. You cant have believabilty without a certain amount of authenticity. Its this balance thats messed up in BFV. Come on man, do you really not understand this?
Banjo-Kazooie is very believable but not at all authentic. It has a coherent world that follows a consistent rule set and presentation that gives the impression of being a look into a curious world. Of course, Battlefield shouldn't be like Banjo (though if it also copies the gameplay and world design principles, then be my guest, but why call it Battlefield then?), but the point is that something can be believable without being realistic, can be realistic without being authentic. But of course the easiest path to believability is authenticity.
 
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Did I say anything about it not being allowed? If a certain level of humour is reached, it is indicative of the motivation behind it, that's all.
If you start questioning the morals of the people making those jokes then yes you're in a way saying it not allowed because it's "morally reprehensible".
 
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Banjo-Kazooie is very believable but not at all authentic. It has a coherent world that follows a consistent rule set and presentation that gives the impression of being a look into a curious world. Of course, Battlefield shouldn't be like Banjo (though if it also copies the gameplay and world design principles, then be my guest, but why call it Battlefield then?), but the point is that something can be believable without being realistic, can be realistic without being authentic. But of course the easiest path to believability is authenticity.
Banjo-Kazooie doesnt try to be anything other than Banjo-Kazooie, a fairytale. And in regards to being a fairytale, sure its believeable.
 
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If you start questioning the morals of the people making those jokes then yes you're in a way saying it not allowed because it's "morally reprehensible".
No, I'm not even saying the jokes themselves are morally reprehensible. They are just beyond stupid and low level. The mindset that I deem likely behind this is though. Not to the point it is not allowed, but it is a shit mindset nevertheless.

Banjo-Kazooie doesnt try to be anything other than Banjo-Kazooie, a fairytale. And in regards to being a fairytale, sure its believeable.
And Battlefield tries to be a believable war story that is inspired by world war 2. How much it succeeds, I do not know, but it can succeed even with women soldiers and 14 year old killers.
 
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Yes I do and this is why I have qualified my statement with words such as "likely". I see no problem in that.
Hey Yoshi, not wanting to pick on you here as you are arguing on multiple fronts and I think that's a bit unfair buuuut even if you are right and some of the humor, even all of it, is trolling... is that really a "bad" thing?

Like, I don't really see an issue with people poking fun and a product or a company or a piece of entertainment media even if the jokes are a bit disingenuous or troll-like.

Of course the people doing the trolling need to be willing to take some back.

It doesn't even mean that people HATE the game, really. There's nothing wrong with banter or ribbing etc.

I'd argue that it's a big problem we are seeing in what I would call "nerd circles" where a lot of humor, or just laid back interactions, is lost because people seem primed to go off on the smallest thing.

Accusations of sexism or racism are seemingly just around the corner. Maybe people see a level of silliness in how this game portrays historical events and want to poke fun at it? That should be allowed, I would think?

I was reading the "cross fire" between this forum and ResetEra regarding BFV and something that stood out to me is that people on RE were somewhat incredulous that NeoGaf even allowed a thread titled "Genderfield" to exist.

Is calling it "Genderfield" trolling? Sure? Is it funny? Yeah, I think so.

Is there anything wrong with it? NO.
Does it betray and underlying feeling of "get these goshdarn women folk out of my video games"? Absolutely not.

I think the gaming community in general would be a better place if people could accept humorous trolling for what it is and not try to paint it as some kind of veneer hiding genuine hate.
 
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No, I'm not even saying the jokes themselves are morally reprehensible. They are just beyond stupid and low level. The mindset that I deem likely behind this is though. Not to the point it is not allowed, but it is a shit mindset nevertheless.


And Battlefield tries to be a believable war story that is inspired by world war 2. How much it succeeds, I do not know, but it can succeed even with women soldiers and 14 year old killers.
It succeeded for about half of the Battlefield community it seems. Believability is subjective.
 
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That's a copout, not an answer. I'll ask again on behalf of whiskeystrike:

What liberal policies are controlling your life?
I'll give you one, here in CA, I can't teach basic science on gender and genetics with out threat of being caled trans phobic and bigoted despite decades of overwhelming evidence that gender is a biology construct far more than a social construct. Here another, what is more controlling than taxes? Literally taking my money away, yes take enough away and that's very controlling. Shall I go on?
 
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Very, very few people have an issue with female protagonists. Ripley was busy being the biggest badass in the galaxy before most Dice developers were out of nappies.

However, the need to shoehorn utterly banal, monothematic politics into games is boring and slightly embarrassing. It reeks of trying way too hard.

Unfortunately for BFV there are just too many good games out there and as a result, people aren’t that fussed.

Also, EA ruin everything.
 
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That's a copout, not an answer. I'll ask again on behalf of whiskeystrike:

What liberal policies are controlling your life?
Speech and Thought Control render people unemployable in the US, or potentially put self-employed out of business via courts. From what I read statements that should be protected via free speech rights leads to criminal charges in Europe. They also dumb down public educations all over the world.
 
Likes: Yakuzakazuya
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Gaming companies are heavily investing in valuing inclusivity, get used to it and you'll be much happier I guarantee it.
And all of them seem to get the same idea at the very same time? What a coincidence. These companies invest in what they think will make them money. Watch them abandon the train just as fast as they boarded it if it doesn‘t pay off soon. You can‘t live off of being socially correct.
 
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Hey Yoshi, not wanting to pick on you here as you are arguing on multiple fronts and I think that's a bit unfair buuuut even if you are right and some of the humor, even all of it, is trolling... is that really a "bad" thing?

Like, I don't really see an issue with people poking fun and a product or a company or a piece of entertainment media even if the jokes are a bit disingenuous or troll-like.

Of course the people doing the trolling need to be willing to take some back.

It doesn't even mean that people HATE the game, really. There's nothing wrong with banter or ribbing etc.

I'd argue that it's a big problem we are seeing in what I would call "nerd circles" where a lot of humor, or just laid back interactions, is lost because people seem primed to go off on the smallest thing.

Accusations of sexism or racism are seemingly just around the corner. Maybe people see a level of silliness in how this game portrays historical events and want to poke fun at it? That should be allowed, I would think?

I was reading the "cross fire" between this forum and ResetEra regarding BFV and something that stood out to me is that people on RE were somewhat incredulous that NeoGaf even allowed a thread titled "Genderfield" to exist.

Is calling it "Genderfield" trolling? Sure? Is it funny? Yeah, I think so.

Is there anything wrong with it? NO.
Does it betray and underlying feeling of "get these goshdarn women folk out of my video games"? Absolutely not.

I think the gaming community in general would be a better place if people could accept humorous trolling for what it is and not try to paint it as some kind of veneer hiding genuine hate.
One of the most ridiculous of SJW's trait is: us or them mentality, there are no in between. Learned that shit after read all the Dan Houser's dog pilled thread pages on ERA months ago.
 
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Likes: Saruhashi
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I don't really get the complaints. You (in my experience playing BF1 and other BF games, haven't played BFV, waiting for it to be free) play a respawning character that runs straight into the bullets and grenades and then dies. Then you get respawned and do the same shit again. If you're still half alive from the shelling, somebody stabs you with a needle and then you hop up and are ready to go.

There's nothing authentic about it. So i don't see the problem with having a chick as playable characters. Ultimately, this game is just a Disneyland version of war.

Reminds me of BF1 complaints about authenticity and then seeing that gif of the people riding on one horse shooting shit.
 
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Why is this thread 12 pages and so active, but the BF V OT is like buried on page 2 or 3?

If everyone wants to talk so much about BF then talk about it in the OT. If you didn't buy/play the game because of SJW/Women/Bionic arms whatever why keep talking about the game.

Not here to shut down conversation but there is more attention on the controversy of the game then the actual game.

Just frustrating to see all the conversation around the game is over EA's stupid marketing and not the actual game itself.
 
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I don't really get the complaints. You (in my experience playing BF1 and other BF games, haven't played BFV, waiting for it to be free) play a respawning character that runs straight into the bullets and grenades and then dies. Then you get respawned and do the same shit again. If you're still half alive from the shelling, somebody stabs you with a needle and then you hop up and are ready to go.

There's nothing authentic about it. So i don't see the problem with having a chick as playable characters. Ultimately, this game is just a Disneyland version of war.

Reminds me of BF1 complaints about authenticity and then seeing that gif of the people riding on one horse shooting shit.
I'm kinda sick of commenting on this topic but there's a difference between authenticity and realism, go back to page 7 or something and its explained there.

The complaints are pretty valid, but it's also fine if you don't care, also you can definitly shoot shit while riding on a horse, not sure whats not realistic about that.

@cryptoadam well since no one bought the game why would they go there to talk about it? I think keeping the criticism contained here is probably better anyway
 
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I'm kinda sick of commenting on this topic but there's a difference between authenticity and realism, go back to page 7 or something and its explained there.

The complaints are pretty valid, but it's also fine if you don't care, also you can definitly shoot shit while riding on a horse, not sure whats not realistic about that.

@cryptoadam well since no one bought the game why would they go there to talk about it? I think keeping the criticism contained here is probably better anyway
I guess thats a good point. Just frustrating to see the topic about BF on page one with tons of posts, yet the BF OT is buried pages ago.

The controversy around this game is more popular than the game itself.
 
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I'm kinda sick of commenting on this topic but there's a difference between authenticity and realism, go back to page 7 or something and its explained there.

The complaints are pretty valid, but it's also fine if you don't care, also you can definitly shoot shit while riding on a horse, not sure whats not realistic about that.
This ain't realistic nor authentic.

And I don't think anyone can tell me that when they play games like this, they don't try to exploit the maps whenever possible like sinking into rocks, turning invisible, etc.

It's a big to do about nothing.
 
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Looks like a Dice Developer is catering the crazies:
"Can't believe we're going through this crap for being more inclusive in 2018"

Haha oh wow, this sentence though. The self-satisfaction is off the charts. They think they are heroes fighting the good fight. It's a videogame, you ain't exactly saving the planet.
 
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This isnt about equality anymore minority and women literally becoming the new age God and SJWs is the new religion.

They brain wash you everywhere social media/ movies / video games.

If you disgare on their point of view then you are the scum of earth and should burn in hell.

I dont mind women in video games and I understand some actually did participate in WW2 but to act like they fought equally as men is misleading history for the sake of feminism is just so wrong its brain washing at its finest.

Literally the new age religion.
 
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This ain't realistic nor authentic.

And I don't think anyone can tell me that when they play games like this, they don't try to exploit the maps whenever possible like sinking into rocks, turning invisible, etc.

It's a big to do about nothing.
I dont think anybody demands that everything everyone does at any given time is 100% authentic :messenger_tears_of_joy: Get some better arguments please, this is getting boring :messenger_squinting_tongue:
 
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I dont think anybody demands that everything everyone does at any given time is 100% authentic :messenger_tears_of_joy: Get some better arguments please, this is getting boring :messenger_squinting_tongue:
THen what's the big deal if another player wants their character in a game to be a chick?


This isnt about equality anymore minority and women literally becoming the new age God and SJWs is the new religion.

They brain wash you everywhere social media/ movies / video games.

If you disgare on their point of view then you are the scum of earth and should burn in hell.

I dont mind women in video games and I understand some actually did participate in WW2 but to act like they fought equally as men is misleading history for the sake of feminism is just so wrong its brain washing at its finest.

Literally the new age religion.
I think you do mind.
 

cormack12

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"Can't believe we're going through this crap for being more inclusive in 2018"
Yep, posting on a gated community site (that you need paid email for) that has a reputation for being the most intolerant gaming site across the web. A site that regularly has posts about men hating themselves, white men being a scourge on society and the most paradoxical, disingenuous and horrible attitudes about everything that falls foul of the party line. About being inclusive. These companies are chasing internet plaudits. Narcissistic self serving out of touch people.
 
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THen what's the big deal if another player wants their character in a game to be a chick?



I think you do mind.
Not at all I play overwatch all the time and I enjoy it actually I dont mind any character there all of them are pretty fun.


I just mind this minority agression and SJWs forcing their ideas into people like its a religion.
 
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Not at all I play overwatch all the time and I enjoy it actually I dont mind any character there all of them are pretty fun.


I just mind this minority agression and SJWs forcing their ideas into people like its a religion.
I dunno. War games are boring as shit with the same looking protagonists. There's a reason they sold skins and shit, to make other characters stand out. To individualize. Seems regressive to me if that option isn't available.
 
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your mind
Yep, posting on a gated community site (that you need paid email for) that has a reputation for being the most intolerant gaming site across the web. A site that regularly has posts about men hating themselves, white men being a scourge on society and the most paradoxical, disingenuous and horrible attitudes about everything that falls foul of the party line. About being inclusive. These companies are chasing internet plaudits. Narcissistic self serving out of touch people.
You summed it up perfectly. It really is astounding how oblivious they are or in other words, how far their heads are stuck up their own arses.
 
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I like how absurdly obstinate SJWs are.

You can try to present a rational argument until the cows come home but no matter how hard you try SJWs will literally never give an inch.

Which is further proof how dead on the NPC meme is, someone who thinks for themselves could actually reach a middle ground once in a while, but SJWs have been programmed with only one "correct" opinion and anything else does not compute, it's literally like talking to a brick wall.

I'll try to reiterate the argument in as simple way as a I can.

1. DICE fudged the historical accuracy of the game, this is a fact.

2. if historical accuracy is an influence in your decision to play a game with a historical setting then you have every right to criticize DICE's decision, the fact that the accuracy involves the much ballyhooed "women and minorities" doesn't matter, it could be over them putting completely fictional weaponry and vehicles in the game and it would be the same issue, historical accuracy, not "women and minorities"
 

JORMBO

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Why is this thread 12 pages and so active, but the BF V OT is like buried on page 2 or 3?

If everyone wants to talk so much about BF then talk about it in the OT. If you didn't buy/play the game because of SJW/Women/Bionic arms whatever why keep talking about the game.

Not here to shut down conversation but there is more attention on the controversy of the game then the actual game.

Just frustrating to see all the conversation around the game is over EA's stupid marketing and not the actual game itself.
Everyone can comment on this topic.
Only people playing the game will post in the OT.
A lot of people skipped the game.
 
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I like how absurdly obstinate SJWs are.

You can try to present a rational argument until the cows come home but no matter how hard you try SJWs will literally never give an inch.

Which is further proof how dead on the NPC meme is, someone who thinks for themselves could actually reach a middle ground once in a while, but SJWs have been programmed with only one "correct" opinion and anything else does not compute, it's literally like talking to a brick wall.

I'll try to reiterate the argument in as simple way as a I can.

1. DICE fudged the historical accuracy of the game, this is a fact.

2. if historical accuracy is an influence in your decision to play a game with a historical setting then you have every right to criticize DICE's decision, the fact that the accuracy involves the much ballyhooed "women and minorities" doesn't matter, it could be over them putting completely fictional weaponry and vehicles in the game and it would be the same issue, historical accuracy, not "women and minorities"
Repeat after me: Battlefield has never been historically accurate. Not even close. This argument is duplicitous, because if you actually cared deeply about accuracy, you wouldn't be playing Battlefield games in the first place. You'd be playing Red Orchestra or other games that strive for faithfulness.

And it's a video game. Criticizing a developer's decision to make a game less accurate in the names of inclusiveness and fun is like demanding a refund from the movie theater because the explosions in a Michael Bay flick weren't realistic.
 
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ArchaeEnkidu

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Repeat after me: Battlefield has never been historically accurate. Not even close. This argument is duplicitous, because if you actually cared deeply about accuracy, you wouldn't be playing Battlefield games in the first place. You'd be playing Red Orchestra or other games that strive for faithfulness.

And it's a video game. Criticizing a developer's decision to make a game less accurate in the names of inclusiveness and fun is like demanding a refund from the movie theater because the explosions in a Michael Bay flick weren't realistic. You're not doing the world a favor, you're just being a pedantic asshole.
Authenticity != Accurate != Realistic. Funny enough, some people's enjoyment of a product can be hampered by making things less authentic, less accurate, less realistic, or any combination of the three. This would lead to valid criticism against the developer. Sure, you don't have that issue - but trying to act in such a petty, childish manner to those who do? C'mon now. Also, the ad hominem attack - was that really necessary?
 
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I guess thats a good point. Just frustrating to see the topic about BF on page one with tons of posts, yet the BF OT is buried pages ago.

The controversy around this game is more popular than the game itself.
Yup. That's the situation that EA/Dice created.

The conversation about historical accuracy/authenticity and why certain decisions were made with this game is WAY more interesting than the game itself.
 
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Hey, not sure if this has been posted, but the "educated" developers from Dice got this wrong:


Or maybe it is "right" from their point of view. They seem to exist on a separate dimension altogether where facts and reality don't matter.
 
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Authenticity != Accurate != Realistic. Funny enough, some people's enjoyment of a product can be hampered by making things less authentic, less accurate, less realistic, or any combination of the three. Also, the ad hominem attack - was that really necessary?
He said accuracy, so I'm targeting accuracy. And in the case of including more women in frontline combat, accuracy is a perfectly valid description.

Also, that's not an ad hominem attack. I'm saying that anyone who whines and moans about moves that make a game more inclusive and fun is being a pedantic asshole. It could be me, you, someone's great aunt Matilda... the point is that obsessing over accuracy when it doesn't detract from the gameplay is unhealthy at best, and insincere at worst.
 
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This is more an update on a previous mention when a DICE member had made the false claim that people were angry because they were trying to be "inclusive". A number of Battlefield fans are not too happy with the end result.
Garbage

Look at these nasty Resetera and their filthy sjw leftist agenda trying to alter history

Can't handle people with different opinion, theyre officialy the modern day communist
 
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Dude, when you want to make a fool out of World War 2, don't cry that you are being made an ass out of.
Repeat after me: Battlefield has never been historically accurate. Not even close. This argument is duplicitous, because if you actually cared deeply about accuracy, you wouldn't be playing Battlefield games in the first place. You'd be playing Red Orchestra or other games that strive for faithfulness.

And it's a video game. Criticizing a developer's decision to make a game less accurate in the names of inclusiveness and fun is like demanding a refund from the movie theater because the explosions in a Michael Bay flick weren't realistic. You're not doing the world a favor, you're just being a pedantic asshole.
Everything has a breaking point past of which suspension of disbelief no longer works. DICE went past that point. And the movie analogy is horrible, this is like getting in a theater to watch Rambo and you find he dies ten minutes in and it's the Spice Girls doing the killing for the rest of the movie.
 
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What fallacy is it where if one thing is 'x' than everything else is off limits? "If all you cared about was 'blank' you'd be playing 'x'. It's pretty much the only argument these people have. They pretend nothing about a game's presentation matters because "here's a funny gif of a player standing on a horse." Nothing about BF is authentic; except for the period appropriate clothing, vehicles, people, landmarks, weapons, etc because "you can revive people by sticking a needle in their arm, checkmate."
 
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There was a great, underrated game back in 2009, set during WW2 , with a female protagounist based on real life heroine Violette Szabo . There was no controversy around that game.
It was a good game that sold shit. It was one of my favourite Xbox360 era games ever.

It had a woman, smart, strong and selfless, a believable character insterted in a credible setting inspired by a real story, with the due differences from history, but still respectful of its context and the tragedy that war brought to Europe.
It also had a pure, genius-level ending.



Velvet Assassin is the proof that a game with a strong femle lead can actually work if your goal is not to push or , for better saying, shove down our throat your political agenda.
You can and should and must use a "minority" character any time you want, just don't do it just to humiliate and mis-represent the majority.

in 2009 that game was a sleeper hit, nobody complained too much.
In 2018 a shitty game in which everyone who isn't a woman or black man is guilty of something, is getting praise.

The problem is not politics, gamers have no idea what politics is despite all the Hillary cheerleading, the problem is that this generation of people is not accostumed to art, beauty and quality and can't tell the difference between chocolate and shit. And they will defend their entitlement to eat shit, by censoring, deplatforming, humiliating, etc whoever stands their ground to defend chocolate. Or at least the option to chose which one to eat.