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[Aurelian]

Dude, when you want to make a fool out of World War 2, don't cry that you are being made an ass out of.


Everything has a breaking point past of which suspension of disbelief no longer works. DICE went past that point. And the movie analogy is horrible, this is like getting in a theater to watch Rambo and you find he dies ten minutes in and it's the Spice Girls doing the killing for the rest of the movie.

When did you become the arbiter of when suspension of disbelief stops working? I didn't realize I had to run things past you before I know whether or not a game is too unrealistic. And that's a pretty rich thing to say when BF1942 players were launching tanks into mid-air, and BF1 players were walking on top of Zeppelins. Frankly, the outrage says more about the whiners' social hangups than the quality of the game.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

When did you become the arbiter of when suspension of disbelief stops working? I didn't realize I had to run things past you before I know whether or not a game is too unrealistic. And that's a pretty rich thing to say when BF1942 players were launching tanks into mid-air, and BF1 players were walking on top of Zeppelins, Frankly, the outrage says more about the whiners' social hangups than the quality of the game.

Suspension of disbelief is different between serious SP campaigns and MP where it's a free for all of kills, spawns, getting jabbed with a medkit to heal 50 hp, scorestreaks etc..... which any shooter can add to spice things up.

 

[FuddyDuddy]

It succeeded for about half of the Battlefield community it seems. Believability is subjective.

I think it's also... a conscious choice, at least with respect to one's ability to become immersed in a game world.

I don't think I've ever played a game where I didn't have to try to headcanon or overlook something I found nonsensical. There have even been times when I've ended up shutting it off and walking away when my ability to suspend disbelief was stretched to the breaking point. Sometimes I'd find a way to accept the thing, other times not. That can apply to anything from gameplay mechanics and character talents to world lore to aspects of the story. I've come to accept that most games will require me to work through some layers of disbelief, and generally make a commitment to do exactly that when I make the decision to purchase and play it.

Gnomes/orcs/wizards/dragons in WWII? I might have a hard time with that. Humans of different sexes/ethnicities/ages - wouldn't really be a problem for me, I don't think.

Shrug.

 

[Scopa]

Hey, not sure if this has been posted, but the "educated" developers from Dice got this wrong:



Or maybe it is "right" from their point of view. They seem to exist on a separate dimension altogether where facts and reality don't matter.

That’s just them slipping in a Hillary homage.

 

[cryptoadam]

There are reasons for that. Your frustration should be aimed squarely at the devs/publisher.

I have voiced my complaints in other BF threads. But I also never had a problem with BF and the game is actually really good. One of the best BF's in a while.

EA fucked up and screwed DICE and the game. Said a month ago the game was going to score low and bomb in sales.

 

[cryptoadam]

Yup. That's the situation that EA/Dice created.

The conversation about historical accuracy/authenticity and why certain decisions were made with this game is WAY more interesting than the game itself.

Which sucks because its a good game. Its light on content which is because of EA. But I dont mind waiting for the game to get updated, I would prefer to play and wait then have a delay and not have the game at all(I have bought every season pass for BF so I dont mind waiting for content drops).

If people just played the game and stayed away from the SP which every one should do with a DICE game they would see all the history accuracy stuff is just not relevant at all.

EA screwed star wars for DICE and now they screwed this BF.

 

[norm9]

I'm surprised so many people even play through the single player. They've been boring as shit and a cheap cinematic knockoff compared to the earlier Modern Warfare games; I get through about an hour before I tap out.

 

[lukilladog]

... I'm saying that anyone who whines and moans about moves that make a game more inclusive and fun is being a pedantic asshole. It could be me, you, someone's great aunt Matilda... the point is that obsessing over accuracy when it doesn't detract from the gameplay is unhealthy at best, and insincere at worst.

Nah, as a pedantic asshole I believe that masculine themed or inspired games are perfectly fine as they are, and owe nothing to collectivists wearing the coat of some unknown victim.

 

[LegendOfKage]

C'mon now. Also, the ad hominem attack - was that really necessary?

Also, that's not an ad hominem attack. I'm saying that anyone who whines and moans about moves that make a game more inclusive and fun is being a pedantic asshole. It could be me, you, someone's great aunt Matilda... the point is that obsessing over accuracy when it doesn't detract from the gameplay is unhealthy at best, and insincere at worst.

It's not a personal attack, you're just attacking anyone who holds a particular viewpoint, and that happens to include the person you're talking to, which makes them an asshole. Not that you're calling THEM an asshole, because that would be a personal attack, which you wouldn't do.

Your logic here reminds me of this:

 

[EDMIX]

What? What sense does this make? Why the hell would anyone write a story that isnt meant to be understood? What sensible writer would do this? This is nonsense.

You can think people acknowledging agendas in games and having an issue with that is silly, and that's alright. However, your reasoning is terrible. You can make the argument that everything has an agenda, as bad an argument as it would be, but if you can't even tell it's there, what relevance does it have?

What the posters here have an issue with here is, overt agendas that you know are there, that are acknowledged by the developers themselves, that they don't try to hide and advertise. People don't want their games to preach down to them, or seem like they're doing so. They like it even less when the people selling the games decide instead of ignoring the outrage, they decide to outright insult their fans.

The why is irrelevant, its the fact that it can be done. Its why I could care less what anyone believes when it comes to actually buying something.

" acknowledged by the developers themselves" Sure and we are waiting for GM and Ford to acknowledge that agenda in racing games to sell oil.....

I don't buy games based on complements by the developer, thus I won't AVOID them based on twitter comments of someone insulting someone.

This has more to do with folks feelings then gaming itself. So I don't buy anything for those reasons let alone avoiding to buy something lol

 

[EDMIX]

Does DICE at any point during the game say the mission is a true story?



Okay so they were still racist, but just.....not AS racist as the game depicts? Well I am so glad the 1930's and 40's racists have you to look out for them man otherwise people might think there was racism in the 30's AND 40's. But that would just be silly right? Seriously though this is such a weird nitpick to make. Its 1940's Europe. I am sure there was plenty of racism to go around and you trying to complain about them being too racist instead of the right amount of racist is just absurd. There are better hills to die on my firend.



Can't really say much here since I am not a historian of the SBS, but if they wanna toss in a wrinkle like that in their story to make it more interesting then I'm fine with it personally.



I never said their weren't any bugs or glitches. I just said a few posts ago actually that I have a shitload of complaints about the game. Nice try though.



Well when you have "fans" flooding Reddit, Youtube, Twitter and various other outlets with sexist and racist bullshit then yeah I would say they have every fucking right to call those people uneducated and mock them. People like that deserve to be mocked. I highly fucking doubt they are trying to mock the average joes that are complaining about turret speed or bombers getting to nuke the team at the beginning of matches. They are mocking the idiots who are throwing tantrums because there are women in their video game and are trying to use "historical accuracy" as a shield to hide behind when really they just don't want women in the game.

Now am I saying that ALL the people complaining fall under that category? Of course not. But there are ALOT of them and THOSE are the people that DICE is making fun of. "Fans" that post such gems as these for example...

Notice how they all have plenty of upvotes as well despite their content. So you trying to insinuate that DICE is trying to mock their fans doesn't hold water. They are specifically mocking those kinds of people. So no those are not valid complaints.





Whoa WHOA WHOA WHOA You are telling me that there is non-regulation weaponry in MY Battlefield game? Well now they have gone too far!!!


I mean I never in all my years would have thought DICE would be so brazen as to put such things into their game!


Oh wait they had a Bipod knife in BF4

Well okay yeah they had a bipod knife, but its not like they ever had any other joke weapons in their games!


Oh wait they had hidden wine bottles in BF1

Okay fine they had joke weapons, but we never got fucking swords before!!!


Oh wait....

Battlefield has ALWAYS had a crazy amount of weird and unorthodox weapons in their game going back over 10 years so you and others suddenly deciding that NOW its time to complain about it as if its never happened before is not gonna work. So just fucking stop.


I am not even going to get into your equally ridiculous "Unauthentic clothing" complaint. All I will say is that its a fucking video game that people play online and DICE needed to find a way to to make money off of Micro's so BOOM. Character customization. It took me a whopping 30secs to realize thats what they were doing.




All that tweet tells me is that they are gonna be just authentic enough to make it somewhat believable, but that they still plan on making the game fun.

They succeeded. Not sure what else you want me to say about that.




I'm sorry, but the title of the thread is fucking "Genderfield V: The Saga Continues" and there have been sexist comments like the ones I provided above on pretty much every piece of media DICE has released since this game was announced.


So I am really sorry if I don't believe that BS for one second.

Great points. Good read.

 

[EDMIX]

When did you become the arbiter of when suspension of disbelief stops working? I didn't realize I had to run things past you before I know whether or not a game is too unrealistic. And that's a pretty rich thing to say when BF1942 players were launching tanks into mid-air, and BF1 players were walking on top of Zeppelins. Frankly, the outrage says more about the whiners' social hangups than the quality of the game.

Agreed.

Those pretending this series was some sort of sim need to stop. So many military sims have released that comparing them to BF has almost be like a joke, as in its like saying Forza and Mario Kart are the same or something yet ignore both are aiming for different hings.

Those sims basically re-enact entire battles, have no hud and a bunch of other stuff.

That isn't BF...it has NEVER BEEN BF! This is being used to ARGUE about political sides, thats it.

 

[IbizaPocholo]

Sorry if this was posted:

 

[EDMIX]

So for the people defending this, namely @Nobody_Important and EDMIX (And maybe Yoshi but I think hes being pretty reasonable about the whole thing)

If you don't consider this an issue, revising history to include women (And minorities but that isn't the case here), why would whitewashing be an issue to you?

Now, I'm against both, we shouldn't downplay whatever happened in the past, but I can't logically see how you could be against it since revising history is essentially what it is.

I'm not saying its ok to do that, simply that this isn't the game for such a concept in the first place. It would be like getting mad at Call Of Duty WWII or WAW for having zombies, we know Zombies were not in WWII (that we KNOW OF BRO) simply that this game isn't even made to be some sort of factual history less, re-enactment, documentary, biography etc.

So thats bad when its ACTUALLY trying to be that and misrepresenting something, but not from a game that legit has never been a simulation or re-enactment type game in the first place. if someone is making a book and is lying about what should be factual, then sure, but not when the actual thing is very much made to be fictional in the first place like MOST WWII films, games, books etc.

Thats kinda like saying Abraham Lincoln, Vampire Hunter is revising history lol

So I'm ok with it being done in BF as I've never actually played this series for that and its never been made for those concepts.

 

[EDMIX]

"Whitewashing to diminish a group or for fear that a certain ethnicity would be met with negative reception by the audience is a different thing of course"

But they do that in the war stories about the french soldiers, they portray them in a much more negative light than what actually happened, isn't that just going doing the same thing but in the opposite end of the spectrum?

"using disprportionally many female soldiers in there in an attempt to give female players who see a great personal value in such represenatation a presence is not a problematic "

We'll have to disagree, revising history is always a problem for me (And obviously many other people), there's a diference between simply giving you the option of playing as a female character, which I've never seen anyone complain about in any other game, and going out of your way to vilify men and lie about history, I don't think it helps anyone.

Example: Making a movie about the zulu warrios with white and asian people to give everyone representation.

Sure there are some people which are actually against women, and I'm not defending those, but labeling anyone who takes issue with this as mysoginist is just wrong, making stupid jokes about the game doesn't make you a misogynist doesn't matter how lame they are.

"they portray them in a much more negative light than what actually happened," huh? Lol

Thats up to them though, you didn't actually go yourself in WWII to 100% say it never happened to say it was that bad, artist interruption bud, its just grasping at straws.

" going out of your way to vilify men and lie about history" ? By simply showing examples of what happened? Thats like saying a film about the Holocaust is trying to go out of its way to um "vilify men", how do you know? They are simply showing what they believed happened or how they believed it happened, but those specifics are pretty subjective and can be seen in so many different ways, who are you to say it must be vague, light etc? Its just much of a reach, as if a film showing children being burned alive and gased was ONLY done to um "going out of your way to vilify men".

Reality is, it happened, they can make it as extreme or as light as they feel just as how on earth would know the 100% EXACT degree of how those things played out other then that they happened?

Be mad about a fact being wrong and freely find it and call it out, but don't waste so much time on bickering about the degree of it as you don't even have any proof (as no one does) of how it was 100% to really state its incorrect.

Even more so, what is the exact "lie about history" you are talking about?

 

[flashfire926]

The fact that I'm somewhat pissed is not because the Woman in the game and the cover, or that first trailer. Battlefield has never been particularly realistic.

However, the comments EA made about people being "uneducted" and all is what is most baffling, where they prov that they are pushing the SJW agenda. That's implying whatever they showed occurred in real life too, which is simply bullshit. You mean to tell me, women with prosthetic arms wielding cricket bats was on the front lines on Omaha Beach? Gimme a break. They could've just said "it's just a game", but nope.

Then censoring "white man" and then mocking their fanbase at the launch party just adds to that.

 

[EDMIX]

The fact that I'm somewhat pissed is not because the Woman in the game and the cover, or that first trailer. Battlefield has never been particularly realistic.

However, the comments EA made about people being "uneducted" and all is what is most baffling, where they prov that they are pushing the SJW agenda. That's implying whatever they showed occurred in real life too, which is simply bullshit. You mean to tell me, women with prosthetic arms wielding cricket bats was on the front lines on Omaha Beach? Gimme a break. They could've just said "it's just a game", but nope.

Then censoring "white man" and then mocking their fanbase at the launch party just adds to that.

" They could've just said "it's just a game", but nope"

Well...they actually did.

https://www.theverge.com/2018/6/12/17453728/ea-women-in-battlefield-v-backlash-response

"listen: this is a game"

I understand if peoples feelings get hurt or they are sensitive to those comments etc, but folks.....its a video game. I don't take JACK personal that any publisher or developer states. Don't play games for that and feel that this was overblown to a massive degree. Even with publishers I openly criticize, take MS for example. Don's comments about (buy 360 instead of XONE) for offline gaming was jacked up, but irrelevant to me not buying a XONE. Even as much as I question the publisher , if they make a fun game.....I'm buying it.

I'm a gamer FIRST folks, nothing any damn publisher states outside of the content of the game itself is going to stop me from actually playing something if its fun, so the whole feelings over games bs is a bit too sensitive for my taste and folks who are even buying anything like this need a grip on reality.

 

[Red Crayon Aristocrat]

When I say accuracy, I'm talking about the design of weapons, equipment, locations and the look of the soldiers themselves.

It's about atmosphere, yes, it's a video game and not "realistic" from a gameplay standpoint, but when a video game creates a good enough atmosphere it can create a suspension of disbelief that can make it feel real, just throwing a bunch of women and other inaccuracies in there breaks that.

I think a good game to compare it to is Ubisoft's For Honor, For Honor gives you the option to play as a female knight, viking, samurai etc but nobody cares or has complained because the game is very clearly a "what if" scenario not derived from any real history, just riffing on history.

If Battlefield V was something like that, a "what if" sandbox that just throws everything vaguely WW2 themed in there, it would be a little more acceptable, trouble is DICE wants to have their cake and eat it too and make you think this is how WW2 really was, given the single player missions.

And the cherry on top is simply DICE's shitty attitude about the whole thing, this may come as a shock but I was originally planning on picking up Battlefield V regardless of these issues but seeing DICE gloat about pissing their audience off has me thinking twice, I hate this arrogant, elitist, ivory tower attitude that has taken hold in the corporate world these days, rather than "the customer is always right!" it's "suck it down you shitheads!", who in their right mind likes this arrogance?

These assholes forget we are still the paying customers, we are not obligated to spend our hard earned money on your bullshit, if you're gonna gloat about pissing your own audience off then don't be surprised when you start losing money.

If DICE simply adjusted their approach to the game a little bit and their tone in handling their audience, you would not see so much controversy in the first place.

 

[Dacon]

When I say accuracy, I'm talking about the design of weapons, equipment, locations and the look of the soldiers themselves.

It's about atmosphere, yes, it's a video game and not "realistic" from a gameplay standpoint, but when a video game creates a good enough atmosphere it can create a suspension of disbelief that can make it feel real, just throwing a bunch of women and other inaccuracies in there breaks that.

I think a good game to compare it to is Ubisoft's For Honor, For Honor gives you the option to play as a female knight, viking, samurai etc but nobody cares or has complained because the game is very clearly a "what if" scenario not derived from any real history, just riffing on history.

If Battlefield V was something like that, a "what if" sandbox that just throws everything vaguely WW2 themed in there, it would be a little more acceptable, trouble is DICE wants to have their cake and eat it too and make you think this is how WW2 really was, given the single player missions.

And the cherry on top is simply DICE's shitty attitude about the whole thing, this may come as a shock but I was originally planning on picking up Battlefield V regardless of these issues but seeing DICE gloat about pissing their audience off has me thinking twice, I hate this arrogant, elitist, ivory tower attitude that has taken hold in the corporate world these days, rather than "the customer is always right!" it's "suck it down you shitheads!", who in their right mind likes this arrogance?

These assholes forget we are still the paying customers, we are not obligated to spend our hard earned money on your bullshit, if you're gonna gloat about pissing your own audience off then don't be surprised when you start losing money.

If DICE simply adjusted their approach to the game a little bit and their tone in handling their audience, you would not see so much controversy in the first place.

Well this is the best part of it all. They basically killed their game.

I think a lot of BF longtime regulars would have been willing to tolerate the unfinished mess this game wound up being, were it not for their absolutely terrible interactions with the community.

It'll be interesting to see if BFV recovers from this, the game dropping drastically in price not long after release isnt looking good.

 

[nkarafo]

If you don't consider this an issue, revising history to include women (And minorities but that isn't the case here), why would whitewashing be an issue to you?

This. I remember so many people losing their minds over Ghost In the Shell having a white woman as the protagonist.

But when the other side complained about the same (but reversed) for The Netflix Witcher series it was racist or something.

It's almost as if minorities have special rights. If you want to impose rules, you have to follow them yourself too. But people are just hypocrites.

 

[Screamer-RSA]

SidAlpha does a good take on this. In summary and I'm paraphrasing, "It is not about women in video games, it is about women being forcibly injected into historic series of events in historically unrealistic situations" "If DICE do not want to portray historically accuracy in their video game then do not even pretend to portray events that actually happened"

In the single player DICE went as far as rewriting actual events to support the narrative they want to push.

 

[lukilladog]

You guys know what is this all about?, politics. Corporations trying to keep the Left appeased, they found out it´s easy to keep their mouth shut about the important things by showing them cooperation on other things, the dumb social issues that don´t matter. Söderlund and his feminists are just getting used, they have been showing this much arrogance because they know they are doing their job, literally, orders straight from the top. Feminists think they are getting listened but they are being played. It´s not Dice´s fault, but EA´s.

 

[LegendOfKage]

Thats kinda like saying Abraham Lincoln, Vampire Hunter is revising history lol

Dice on the Vampire Hunter DLC:

We treat history with great respect, as we did before with Battlefield 1942 and Battlefield 1. We hear people saying that they don't want vampires in Battlefield V. These are people who are uneducated—they don't understand that this is a plausible scenario. And we don't take any flak. We stand up for the cause, because I think those people who don't understand it, well, you have two choices: either accept the vampires or don't buy the game. I'm fine with either or. It's just not ok.

Seriously, though, I think just about everyone who supports what Dice did with this game constantly refuses to engage with the actual arguments being made throughout this entire thread. I've only noticed one exception, and that's Yoshi

Regarding comparisons of gender replacement to whitewashing:

In principle I have no issue with either, depending on the motivation. If you have a good casting or story reason to use a white actor for a character that was not white in the source material, it is fine by me, as would any other such change to gender, ethnicity or whatever. Whitewashing to diminish a group or for fear that a certain ethnicity would be met with negative reception by the audience is a different thing of course, but the difference is one in motivation. Making something based on WW2 thematically and then using disprportionally many female soldiers in there in an attempt to give female players who see a great personal value in such represenatation a presence is not a problematic motivation from my point of view (it is a good one actually).

I disagree with the underlined opinion, but it exists on its own. It's not misrepresenting anyone's argument. It's not assuming bad motivations of those who disagree. It's not ignoring the differences between gameplay and storytelling. Either take it or leave it, but it's not "wrong." There is no truth here, only opinion. And that opinion is "I think it's a good thing that women were inserted into the multiplayer and campaign, despite not being historically accurate, even when taking the place of actual war heroes." At least that's what I read it as. If I'm misrepresenting anything, let me know.

And you can't prove that wrong. You can disagree with it, and I do disagree with it, but it's pure opinion based on the understanding and acknowledgement of all side of this debate. That was nice to see, and I have to respect that.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

This. I remember so many people losing their minds over Ghost In the Shell having a white woman as the protagonist.

But when the other side complained about the same (but reversed) for The Netflix Witcher series it was racist or something.

It's almost as if minorities have special rights. If you want to impose rules, you have to follow them yourself too. But people are just hypocrites.

There's a number of reasons why it goes this way.

The base of it comes from the fact (whether people want to admit it or not) that a lot of the most popular things in life (in this case Hollywood) is most profound in white people.

So what you get is some groups trying to scramble for whatever scraps they can get calling out whities to share (instead of doing it themselves), or trying to retain as much stuff they currently already have because whitie might come along and be better at it.

Your example of Ghost in the Shell. Reason why Scarlett J got it is because she's a good looking leading actress who is known world wide. In terms of accuracy, an Asian actress would be better suited. But name one Asian actress that could get the clicks and ticket sales as Scarlett. Here's the answer.... you won't find one. I'm sure there's ones who went for the role and demanded a salary a fraction of Scarlett, but she still got it.

If a studio is going to have a budget over $100 million (which it did), most studios will try to pick well known actors/actresses.

Now if there was a hot and popular Asian actress who can dress in a tight outfit that can easily generate over $100 million in revenue, then sure she might get picked.

 

[EDMIX]

Dice on the Vampire Hunter DLC:



Seriously, though, I think just about everyone who supports what Dice did with this game constantly refuses to engage with the actual arguments being made throughout this entire thread. I've only noticed one exception, and that's Yoshi

Regarding comparisons of gender replacement to whitewashing:



I disagree with the underlined opinion, but it exists on its own. It's not misrepresenting anyone's argument. It's not assuming bad motivations of those who disagree. It's not ignoring the differences between gameplay and storytelling. Either take it or leave it, but it's not "wrong." There is no truth here, only opinion. And that opinion is "I think it's a good thing that women were inserted into the multiplayer and campaign, despite not being historically accurate, even when taking the place of actual war heroes." At least that's what I read it as. If I'm misrepresenting anything, let me know.

And you can't prove that wrong. You can disagree with it, and I do disagree with it, but it's pure opinion based on the understanding and acknowledgement of all side of this debate. That was nice to see, and I have to respect that.

"Dice on the Vampire Hunter DLC" lol 10/10 would buy.

"Seriously, though, I think just about everyone who supports what Dice did with this game constantly refuses to engage with the actual arguments being made throughout this entire thread" Pretty much. Consider, most who support the game are not buying it for history lessons man. No one is really buying it for those fake made up reasons anymore then someone is buying Call Of Duty WWII to teach their class about the time soldiers fought zombies.

Sounds like an excuse to argue over politics. I mean seriously, folks arguing over game mode lots of the MP fans see as a running joke. Not only is the SP always pretty bad, but I find it hard to believe someone is really buying it for a history lesson. Fake concern and fake outrage to argue over politics. Games like Red Orchestra, Operation Flashpoint etc are the games to look for such concepts.

 

[Noboru Wataya]

this is like getting in a theater to watch Rambo and you find he dies ten minutes in and it's the Spice Girls doing the killing for the rest of the movie.

Sign me up! That sounds awesome.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

You what would be awesome?.... movies can do the same thing..... if the bad guys won.

Have a WWII shooter where you play as Germans and try to beat the allies. Whether it's real life situations where you try to win the missions, or a fictitious WWII storyline where the allies were actually the enemies doing bad things. An alternate world idea.

If people want variety in WWII shooters, how about one of the gazillion game makers give this a whirl.

 

[EDMIX]

You what would be awesome?.... movies can do the same thing..... if the bad guys won.

Have a WWII shooter where you play as Germans and try to beat the allies. Whether it's real life situations where you try to win the missions, or a fictitious WWII storyline where the allies were actually the enemies doing bad things. An alternate world idea.

If people want variety in WWII shooters, how about one of the gazillion game makers give this a whirl.

I love Inglorious bastards, I'd love a game like that lol

 

[RedVIper]

"they portray them in a much more negative light than what actually happened," huh? Lol

Thats up to them though, you didn't actually go yourself in WWII to 100% say it never happened to say it was that bad, artist interruption bud, its just grasping at straws.

" going out of your way to vilify men and lie about history" ? By simply showing examples of what happened? Thats like saying a film about the Holocaust is trying to go out of its way to um "vilify men", how do you know? They are simply showing what they believed happened or how they believed it happened, but those specifics are pretty subjective and can be seen in so many different ways, who are you to say it must be vague, light etc? Its just much of a reach, as if a film showing children being burned alive and gased was ONLY done to um "going out of your way to vilify men".

Reality is, it happened, they can make it as extreme or as light as they feel just as how on earth would know the 100% EXACT degree of how those things played out other then that they happened?

Be mad about a fact being wrong and freely find it and call it out, but don't waste so much time on bickering about the degree of it as you don't even have any proof (as no one does) of how it was 100% to really state its incorrect.

Ww2 didn't happen in 400BC, we documented almost everything during Ww2, it isn't some mystical war fought by some tribes thousands of years ago.

They didn't show examples of what happened, they made stuff up, the whole black French soldiers being segregated from white soldiers? Not true. The whole forcing black soldiers to dig trenches while white French soldiers fought? Nope. Erasing black French soldiers from pictures? Made up, we have tons of pictures of the senagese soldiers alongside French soldiers. Showing a bunch of black soldiers that were executed by the nazis, and completely dismissing that the French soldiers died right alongside them trying to defend them.

So yeah this isn't interpreting the events, it isn't portraying actual truth, it's making stuff up.

In the other post you said it's only a problem if it's supposed to be taken seriously, which is pretty ambiguous since I just could whitewash whatever I want and then claim it's just fiction. But, nonetheless, aren't the untold stories supposed to be true? Isn't that kinda the point? Because they absolutely aren't.

Like I've said before, you're absolutely free to enjoy the game, I've bought games from publishers I don't like, but you came to this thread and disagreed with everyone who's criticising the game and said they should just enjoy it instead. What happened to voting with our wallets anyway?

 

[EDMIX]

There's a number of reasons why it goes this way.

The base of it comes from the fact (whether people want to admit it or not) that a lot of the most popular things in life (in this case Hollywood) is most profound in white people.

So what you get is some groups trying to scramble for whatever scraps they can get calling out whities to share (instead of doing it themselves), or trying to retain as much stuff they currently already have because whitie might come along and be better at it.

Your example of Ghost in the Shell. Reason why Scarlett J got it is because she's a good looking leading actress who is known world wide. In terms of accuracy, an Asian actress would be better suited. But name one Asian actress that could get the clicks and ticket sales as Scarlett. Here's the answer.... you won't find one. I'm sure there's ones who went for the role and demanded a salary a fraction of Scarlett, but she still got it.

If a studio is going to have a budget over $100 million (which it did), most studios will try to pick well known actors/actresses.

Now if there was a hot and popular Asian actress who can dress in a tight outfit that can easily generate over $100 million in revenue, then sure she might get picked.

Agreed.

Ghost is also a bad example as Motoko in Ghost In The Shell is in a prosthetic suit. The suit was made to look like a westerner as at the time in Japan that was a popular model in that fictional universe. So the film isn't really whitewashing as the Manga, anime film and show use the same style model. Because her mind is in a suit, the suit itself can actually look like anyone tbh. You don't really know what Motoko looks like and even in the manga its entertained that Motoko may not even be a girl...

 

[Orpheum]

Can Videogames please just be Videogames again???

 

[EDMIX]

" we documented almost everything during Ww2" Thats nice, that doesn't mean you KNOW everything about that time period, just means we documented what we could.....

"since I just could whitewash whatever I want and then claim it's just fiction." ?? Ok, you can....so? If you made it and are telling us its fiction who am I to tell you otherwise? smh...did you think I was going to arguing against that or? If you want to do that, I'll fully support that as its your view, your choice and the thing you are making is fiction and up to you.

I'd have zero problem with that.

" What happened to voting with our wallets anyway?" Who said you couldn't ? lolz

If you want a serious Sim racer, I'd have to suggest GT or Forza. If you want to argue about Mario Kart not being a sim racer thats up to you. So you are free to vote with your wallet bud, don't buy Mario Kart expecting GT....

Simply buy Forza or GT.....

(ie simply buy a military simulation that is actually made for the core focus of a historical re-enactment)

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Got to say this thread has been a laugh to read, so I think I'm done with writing in it.... but will keep reading it.

But to sum up, pretty sure gamers having a beef with BF comes from this..... and I'm not going to get into "Realism vs Authenticity" because to me is semantics:

- EA/DICE saying BF games strive to be gritty and realistic
- BFV puts in some believable missions (water plant is real) and French/Senegalese working together
- BFV executes missions with unbelieveable/false narratives that definitely do seem pretty liberal/SJW like

So on one hand, BFV tries to give off a sense of real life WWII gaming, but the storylines are far fetched. Just doesn't seem to mesh coherently.

It would be like Street Fighter with it's crazy characters, beat your ass attitudes and revenge storylines suddenly getting changed in the next SF game where Ryu and Ken want to beat up Bison becasue Bison thinks any opponent wearing pink costumes is gay. It's a fictitious game where any stroyline can be written in without needing history lessons, but that storyline just doesn't fit the game.

 

[hyperbertha]

It's a video game. Video games are meant to be played for fun, so they want to include more people into the fun. If that's wrong for you, then I feel sorry for you.

How does more representation 'include'' more people in the fun? If black people or trans or women can't tolerate playing as any other race/sex in a videogame its their problem and it makes them stupid. Do women not play Zelda because its protag is a male?

 

[adeptusminor]

WTF EA.

Look I don't care about SJW/Women/Bionic arms in my game. I actually really loved the first trailer (though not as good as the seven nation army BF 1 trailer). But EA is shooting DICE in the foot, legs, arms, and head.

BF V outside of being light on content(which will all be free anyways) is actually a kick ass game and a really good BF game. This will go down as one of the worse selling BF's for no reason outside of EA's stupid marketing.

If you actually play BF outside of one war story mission you don't notice any SJW or Mah Women stuff in the game. I can't even tell half the time who is a man or women in the game. And that one SP mission, lets be honest, most of BF players don't even touch the SP anyways.

EA made 2 mistakes with BF. The marketing and no BR on day 1, and both those mistakes are sinking a kick ass game.

This genderfluid nonsense is getting out of hand!!11

 

[MayauMiao]

Got to say this thread has been a laugh to read, so I think I'm done with writing in it.... but will keep reading it.

But to sum up, pretty sure gamers having a beef with BF comes from this..... and I'm not going to get into "Realism vs Authenticity" because to me is semantics:

- EA/DICE saying BF games strive to be gritty and realistic
- BFV puts in some believable missions (water plant is real) and French/Senegalese working together
- BFV executes missions with unbelieveable/false narratives that definitely do seem pretty liberal/SJW like

So on one hand, BFV tries to give off a sense of real life WWII gaming, but the storylines are far fetched. Just doesn't seem to mesh coherently.

That's right. I bet almost no one will give a shit about women in BFV if the single player mission feature women snipers from Russia. DICE should have gone for that route. But no, DICE want to teach us about political correctness and gave us a twisted take on history with lies that rival Disney's Pocahontas.

 

[MilkyJoe]

This is a fantastic video that tears apart the virtue signalling of DICE and this game, telling the true story of each single player story. If really grinds my gears that people think historical revisionism is OK in video games, doing what would be described as abhorrent in a movie. I guess those people still think that video games are not a legit form of entertainment.

BFV be damned it's a really interesting video in it's own right.



But if I'm a sexist because I prefer learning about reality to 2018 gender politics revisionism, then so be it.

Spoiler

 

[hyperbertha]

Funny thing is Horizon: ZD is my favorite game this generation. Main character is a female and the game ROCKS.

Dice is just trying way too hard, I won’t buy this game. I probably wasn’t going to buy anyway because I’m tired of the past WW games, but this was the cherry on top.

See H:ZD is a case where the female character worked and was even required. I ca't see it play out so well with a male character. It wasn't a case of letting some minority finally live out their fantasy for the sake of it.

 

[OmegaX0]

If you want a serious Sim racer, I'd have to suggest GT or Forza. So you are free to vote with your wallet bud, don't buy Mario Kart expecting GT....

See that's the crux of the problem (for me at least), Dice basically advertised GT then showed a Mario Kart trailer and insulted anyone who called them out on it. They had a 30 minute event painting it as a serious immersive WW2 game, "The game we wanted BF1942 to be", then suddenly there's a trailer that looked like a wacky alt history game and anyone who dared to criticize it gets generalized as sexist as a convenient way to deflect any criticism. They just doubled down on the insanity ever since.

 

[Red Crayon Aristocrat]

What it all comes down to is that SJW weirdos simply cannot handle the fact that the world did not always operate like it does in the 2010s, it's like some 1984 "Oceania is at war with Eastasia, we've never been at war with Eurasia" bullshit, reality must change to fit Big Sister's worldview.

I just picture a brainstorm meeting at DICE where they're looking at historical photos of WW2 soldiers and *gasp* they all feature MEN! Everyone at DICE is really strained and awkward, "but wait" they're all thinking "I thought women are and have always been what the world revolves around? This can't be right!" so everyone just kinda stands around quietly until some artist reflexively starts drawing pictures of female WW2 soldiers and then they all smile and applaud.

Imagine if the movie Dunkirk depicted WW2 like Battlefield V does, it would have been laughed out of theaters, but oh no, video games have to kiss the ass of these weirdos, although soon movies will too, even a movie like Dunkirk won't be able to get made one day.

It's literally like a cult, a cult that worships women.

Newsflash, the world does not always revolve around women, men have their own stories to tell and telling those stories is not a slam against women, it's a slam against men to say they have to be rewritten and revised to make it all about women instead.

Honestly the more I think about it the more I realize how fucking vile this attitude is, this flagrant disrespect to the real men who fought, died and suffered in this war.

I picture something like in Saving Private Ryan, the soldier on the beaches of Normandy with his guts hanging out and crying for his mother and some blue haired feminist coming along and saying "stand aside silly boy, it's time for HERstory, not history!"

I guess men are just assholes whose lives are worthless in the face of those glorious STRAWNG WAWWWWMAAAAAAAN!

 

[hyperbertha]

Some of my favorite first person shooters of all time are the two No One Lives Forever games, where you play as someone that has a vagina.

In fact I relish the chance to play as a female character in a game because it's something different, I do not at all mind it with one exception and that is depending on one word....

Context, context, context.

In the context of a WW2 game like Battlefield V, for them to present female characters in a way that bends historical accuracy is a problem for me because I care about accuracy in a game based on real life history.

Some might care about accuracy, some might not, it's a matter of taste, for those that do care though it's a legitimate gripe and not just someone "scared that somebody might ruin their pew pew fantasies by playing as someone that has a vagina"

Agreed.

 

[hyperbertha]

How does equality suddenly allow everyone to play? Are only white folk allowed into the cinema to watch a Bond movie?

Are you saying that minorities and females are so fragile that they cannot enjoy historical themed entertainment unless they are represented?

This exactly. Why the fuck do people need to roleplay as themselves to enjoy a videogame? Its not what matters in a piece of entertainment. "The story sucks and its rushed but I love it cuz I get to play as myself yay"

 

[Red Crayon Aristocrat]

This exactly. Why the fuck do people need to roleplay as themselves to enjoy a videogame? Its not what matters in a piece of entertainment. "The story sucks and its rushed but I love it cuz I get to play as myself yay"

It honestly speaks to something being wrong with you if you can only empathize with a character or avatar who is exactly like you.

 

[5secondrulesucks]

If people just played the game and stayed away from the SP which every one should do with a DICE game they would see all the history accuracy stuff is just not relevant at all.
.

kind of a weird take. if i buy a game i want to enjoy all of it not ignore a giant hunk of it

 

[hyperbertha]

I mean, Joe is absolutely awful at video games, is him getting worked in an online game supposed to mean something?

Willing to bet he's still a whole lot better than you. And the criticisms raised in the review had nothing to do with his gaming prowess and everything to do with how scummy the game is. But keep sinking more hours (and dollars) into it though. One man's trash is another's treasure.

 

[Whitecrow]

IMHO, the problem was never the inclusion of women.
Sure there's people who just got angry from that.

But there was something more harmful than that, and that was the way they sent the message.

Basically it was: "We put women because is our game, and if you dont like it, you can fuck off."
And also, the SJW dev who said that about: 'What could I say to my daughter if she asks me if she cant play as a woman in WWII?'

They managed it awfully, and even if the game is great, they will learn to not have retards on their team.

 

[Meccs]

SidAlpha does a good take on this. In summary and I'm paraphrasing, "It is not about women in video games, it is about women being forcibly injected into historic series of events in historically unrealistic situations" "If DICE do not want to portray historically accuracy in their video game then do not even pretend to portray events that actually happened"

In the single player DICE went as far as rewriting actual events to support the narrative they want to push.

The example with the "replace real event heroes with mother+daughter" is what irks me the most. Just make something up if you want to have your own take on history but don't try to rewrite it. I bet there are enough REAL WW2 stories that include hero females, why not use those?

 

[MilkyJoe]

It honestly speaks to something being wrong with you if you can only empathize with a character or avatar who is exactly like you.

The irony is lost on them

 

[odhin]

F*ck Dice! F*ck EA!
Seriously, this is just WRONG. Everyone who defends this game's story / plot / whatever is in the WRONG. PERIOD(.)

Some people don't understand, or rather, (going by what I've seen in this thread) pretend to not understand the "complains" about this heinous and disgraceful story missions.

Its not about "BAHAHA dumb dumb men can't accept women and diversity in video games", get it through your thick heads, it's not that freaking hard. We can have a Wolfenstein, we can have that Zombie Nazis Movie (forgot the name), damn we can even have a game/movie about cows defeating nazi goblins ffs. But please, don't come to us with a game trying to sell it as a real life depiction, real untold hero stories that are a bunch of BS just beacuse reasons.

 

[Senhua]

BF V should be about modern warfare rather than WW2. Thats will fit the "inclusion" they want to bring about. And I bet no one will object about ninja with samurai or whatever.