German authorities now allow inclusion of symbols of unconstitutional symbols and context in games

Oct 24, 2017
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#1
Ok this is a HUGE thing for Germany since with this Games are now being treated equally to other media forms. Before this decsision not only swastika symbols were not allowed but EVERY possible link to WW2 history and Nazis. That included, names, nazi language, office ranks almost everything related to Nazis. in Wolfenstein for example you never fought Nazis I think it was the regime. And their motto was not "Sieg Heil" but "Victoria" But after lover 20 years it is allowed. theoretically companies could even resubmitted a Wolfenstein 2 in its original form but I doubt this will happen with many or even some old games. Important here is all the future games should be fair game now.

Here is a pretty good article

https://www.gamesindustry.biz/artic...et-with-nazi-symbols-is-not-something-we-want

Finally something Germany does right^^
 

Skyr

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Sep 4, 2013
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#2
Just heard it in the radio. That's fantastic news.
I really hope that a few gems will be reviewed retrospectively.
 

Hudo

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That's....unexpected. Does the CSU know? Lol. In any case, I'm happy that the USK finally did it. About time. Maybe I can play Wolfenstein via Steam without needing a VPN to login.
 

DonF

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Jul 10, 2017
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Do you guys think that, in the case of Wolfenstein, they are going to start using the real thing? I mean, there is a already a stablished universe.
It would be nice to have the option, but I feel that it's going to be inconsequential going from "the regime" in part 1 to, out of nowhere, the Nazis in new Colossus.
 
Sep 7, 2015
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#7
Do you guys think that, in the case of Wolfenstein, they are going to start using the real thing? I mean, there is a already a stablished universe.
It would be nice to have the option, but I feel that it's going to be inconsequential going from "the regime" in part 1 to, out of nowhere, the Nazis in new Colossus.
i sincerely hope so. This whole "Herr Heiler" shit soured me to know end.
 
Mar 26, 2011
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Great stuff!

I'm German and in my opinion we shouldn't deny what has happened in the past, of course it's awful but it can't be undone. Putting symbols in videogames is in no way a form of glorification but much rather a way of critique and in our case, self-reflection.
Totally especially when you see them in school all the time (history classes obviously). You hear at least about five years what the nazis were up to back then. So I never understood that sentiment of censoring it in video games.
 
Oct 24, 2017
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#10
Totally especially when you see them in school all the time (history classes obviously). You hear at least about five years what the nazis were up to back then. So I never understood that sentiment of censoring it in video games.
Yeah it is starting in 5th grade until yu are done. Depending if Abitur or not thats until end of grade 12. As for censoring games. Games were always seen as toys here therefore the double standard. In books, TV cinema, paintings etc it was totally fine. Funny thing is that this game actually was also a reason for this to come trough. This was the first game that allowed Swastika symbols XD





Its called Bundesfighter 2 Turbo XD
 
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#11
Do you guys think that, in the case of Wolfenstein, they are going to start using the real thing? I mean, there is a already a stablished universe.
It would be nice to have the option, but I feel that it's going to be inconsequential going from "the regime" in part 1 to, out of nowhere, the Nazis in new Colossus.
It’s unlikely that Bethesda gives us the uncensored Version because even if that „ban“ is now lifted, the original version would have to be re reviewed by the USK which costs money. I highly doubt that Bethesda wants to pay for that.

Also, it’s HIGHLY unlikely that there is an argument to be made for games being art nowadays where games as a service is a common thing.
 
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Likes: DonF
Sep 7, 2015
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Yeah it is starting in 5th grade until yu are done. Depending if Abitur or not thats until end of grade 12. As for censoring games. Games were always seen as toys here therefore the double standard. In books, TV cinema, paintings etc it was totally fine. Funny thing is that this game actually was also a reason for this to come trough. This was the first game that allowed Swastika symbols XD





Its called Bundesfighter 2 Turbo XD

holy fuck this is amazing :D
 
Nov 3, 2013
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#16
The censorship of the swastika symbol had nothing to do with trying to hide the past and more or less something to do with not empowering the right wing / giving them exposure. At least that‘s how I understood it.

About time they caved and stop this nonsense.
 
Sep 7, 2015
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#18
The censorship of the swastika symbol had nothing to do with trying to hide the past and more or less something to do with not empowering the right wing / giving them exposure. At least that‘s how I understood it.

About time they caved and stop this nonsense.
Yeah the reason itself was way different, however it always gave the impression
 
Oct 24, 2017
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#19
The censorship of the swastika symbol had nothing to do with trying to hide the past and more or less something to do with not empowering the right wing / giving them exposure. At least that‘s how I understood it.

About time they caved and stop this nonsense.
And it was really stupid because of it since there are not many games that even glorify Nazis. Usually you fight and kill them.
 
Jun 28, 2013
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#24
That’s a big step for Deutschland toward a more free society. I remember first discovering the extent to which they outlawed the Swastika and other symbols to distance themselves from their history and I can only guess whether Germans are prepared to endure those reminders again.
 
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That’s a big step for Deutschland toward a more free society. I remember first discovering the extent to which they outlawed the Swastika and other symbols to distance themselves from their history and I can only guess whether Germans are prepared to endure those reminders again.
We are "perfectly fine" with it. As I said in movies, documentaries, in history classes and museums you see it a lot. It's just that in games it was cut.
 
Likes: Dunki
Jun 28, 2013
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#27
We are "perfectly fine" with it. As I said in movies, documentaries, in history classes and museums you see it a lot. It's just that in games it was cut.
Pardons; my aim was not to impugn. Simply, as safeguards are removed, the response to the constant reminders of one of the darkest chapters of German history (and just generally) will gin up sentiments on both ends. It’s the interaction between those long-harbored feelings that causes me great interest, seeing as Germany is the linchpin of Europe’s economic and political stability.
 
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People have no idea how the worlds work don't they. I hope all of you who are cheering for that will be ready to serve as cannon fodder in the next war.

Because when you see Battlefield V revising history (something that is illegal in some countries) to appeal to SJWs, what do you think will eventually happen with those symbols...?
 
Likes: Believer1
Oct 24, 2017
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#31
People have no idea how the worlds work don't they. I hope all of you who are cheering for that will be ready to serve as cannon fodder in the next war.

Because when you see Battlefield V revising history (something that is illegal in some countries) to appeal to SJWs, what do you think will eventually happen with those symbols...?
I do not get you. What are you trying to say? That its better to censor nazi language symbols etc in Germany because of SJW?
 
Jan 28, 2018
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#32
I do not get you. What are you trying to say? That its better to censor nazi language symbols etc in Germany because of SJW?
No, I'm saying there good are reasons for banning (it's not censorship if it's mandated illegal) those symbols.

And the excuse of it having a "documentary" purpose does not stand, video games are not documentaries but instead influencive medias especially towards youth, and since SJWs have pushed hard for historical revisionism (like in Battlefield V) there's of course the obvious risk that the same revisionism will eventually serve the promotion of extreme-right wing.
 
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Likes: Believer1
Oct 24, 2017
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#33
No, I'm saying there good are reasons for banning (it's not censorship if it's mandated illegal) those symbols.

And the excuse of it having a "documentary" purpose does not stand, video games are not documentaries but instead influencive medias especially towards youth, and since SJWs have pushed hard for historical revisionism (like in Battlefield V) there's of course the obvious risk that the same revisionism will eventually serve the promotion of extreme-right wing.
Video games in Germany were the only media that did not allow this. Its totally fine in Books, movies, TV series etc. It is not because its a documentary but because it is art. And Video games were not seen as art form. That has nothing to do with revisionism.
 
Jul 26, 2018
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#34
I'd rather have them remove those ridiculously sized USK-Logos again that ruin every cover so I don't have to import every game from somewhere else....
Yeah...Those fucking big USK logos are my main reason for importing games as well.

EDIT: Also, LOL at Bundefighter 2. Is that Helmut Kohl dropping from the sky as one of Merkel's special moves? XD
 
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Dec 12, 2013
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Any chance they'll submit to PEGI for ratings now? That huge USK rating square on German game box-art is absolutely disgusting, I don't know how you Germans can stand it.
 
Jul 24, 2018
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No, I'm saying there good are reasons for banning (it's not censorship if it's mandated illegal) those symbols.

And the excuse of it having a "documentary" purpose does not stand, video games are not documentaries but instead influencive medias especially towards youth, and since SJWs have pushed hard for historical revisionism (like in Battlefield V) there's of course the obvious risk that the same revisionism will eventually serve the promotion of extreme-right wing.
It's not censorship if it's mandated illegal? WTF does that mean? Law has nothing to do with whether something is, in actuality, censorship.
 
Jan 27, 2018
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I can't imagine what it'd be like to live in Germany with Nazism hanging over your history. And I'm not saying I blame today's Germans for it or anything. It just has to cast such a shadow.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Read above, we either import or don't buy the game at all.
My bad, I didn't even notice it was mentioned already. I don't blame you guys for importing, that shit is totally unacceptable. At least with the EU, importing doesn't really cost that much extra, maybe some extra shipping but that's about it.
 
Jan 10, 2018
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No, I'm saying there good are reasons for banning (it's not censorship if it's mandated illegal) those symbols.

And the excuse of it having a "documentary" purpose does not stand, video games are not documentaries but instead influencive medias especially towards youth, and since SJWs have pushed hard for historical revisionism (like in Battlefield V) there's of course the obvious risk that the same revisionism will eventually serve the promotion of extreme-right wing.
Banning a symbol, which is literally just art, is oppression of freedoms. Oppression of 1 is oppression of all. Please consider your mentality as I and many others are not interested in living in a society where some corrupt government/uninformed SJW tells me what symbol I can view and what I can't.
 
Jan 28, 2018
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It's not censorship if it's mandated illegal? WTF does that mean? Law has nothing to do with whether something is, in actuality, censorship.
That means that an execution is not a murder if it's mandated by the government, thus being legal. In the same way, if something is illegal, then it's not protected under free-speech, therefor it is not censorship. Censorship only occurs when something is legal, but someone is impeaching or infringing on a guaranteed speech.

Banning a symbol, which is literally just art, is oppression of freedoms. Oppression of 1 is oppression of all. Please consider your mentality as I and many others are not interested in living in a society where some corrupt government/uninformed SJW tells me what symbol I can view and what I can't.
Yeah okay, learn some basic political and institutional science first, or serve as cannon fodder for being a degenerate youth. Really, be a corpse (unless you survive) for promoting symbols and don't understanding the implications you supported, or learn what regulations, laws and justice are for.
 
Jul 24, 2018
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That means that an execution is not a murder if it's mandated by the government, thus being legal. In the same way, if something is illegal, then it's not protected under free-speech, therefor it is not censorship. Censorship only occurs when something is legal, but someone is impeaching or infringing on a guaranteed speech.



Yeah okay, learn some basic political and institutional science first, or serve as cannon fodder for being a degenerate youth. Really, be a corpse (unless you survive) for promoting symbols and don't understanding the implications you supported, or learn what regulations, laws and justice are for.
That dumb IMO. Execution is murder, and censorship is censorship whether it's "legal" or not. Legality has nothing to do with whether something is being censored.
 
Likes: DeepEnigma
May 26, 2018
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#49
Do you guys think that, in the case of Wolfenstein, they are going to start using the real thing? I mean, there is a already a stablished universe.
It would be nice to have the option, but I feel that it's going to be inconsequential going from "the regime" in part 1 to, out of nowhere, the Nazis in new Colossus.
Wolfenstein was one of the biggest reasons the initial ban came about (for games in specific out of any other creative medium), and then why the practice is being dissolved right now by the rating boards internally, instead of waiting for a lawsuit contesting the situation that no company will bother with its negative PR to initiate (or want to, in Bethesda's case).

It seems there was considerable frustration internally by USK employees about the Wolfenstein series' censorship, who shared the common sense opinion that they cut more than they needed to. Even Nintendo of America allowed drugs and a Hitler headshot in their NES censorship heydays (when it extended to all games on their consoles as opposed to just their first party games these days) because of the general context being a message they approve of, but the german self-censorship in response to censorship laws lacked that subtlety.

Bundes Fighter was a game that received government funding yet fell afoul of the current ban, that might have been a significant factor as well.

That means that an execution is not a murder if it's mandated by the government, thus being legal. In the same way, if something is illegal, then it's not protected under free-speech, therefor it is not censorship. Censorship only occurs when something is legal, but someone is impeaching or infringing on a guaranteed speech.
So what you're saying about censorship, ah excuse me, content adjustments and enhancements to localize and update it to modern standards of tastefulness and mass appeal.

When content is cut by private companies, it's not censorship. Because they are private entities and can do whatever they want, and are not obligated to allow speech of their own creatives and guests (if they're a TV station, movie production, book publisher, game developer, etc), or that of anyone using their comment section (if they're running a site with user submitted content of any sort)
When content is cut by the government, it's not censorship because that content is illegal and a crime in progress.

Got it.
Seems we're well past arguing about the definition of what counts as censorship, and at the point the word's existence in dictionnaries is in question.