Germany: Merkel disgust at New Year gang assaults

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Guileless

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Jun 7, 2004
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If I were in charge of integration, I'd require the refugees to watch 4-5 episodes of Friends dubbed into German per day. I'd also give them coupons to eat at fast food restaurants and reward good behavior with complimentary (and chaperoned) beer bashes.
 
Nov 13, 2013
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Or just put up a gate and make it more selective. Setup a special area for waiting refugees. It's not a solution to just accept a million refugees and cross your fingers hoping for the best.
Again, you're not allowed to make it more selective. Genuine refugees fleeing war and persecution have a right to asylum no matter who they are, both through Article 14 and numerous other treaties on the matter. Sure, you're free to set up guarded camps if you want. I don't agree with it, think it's inhumane and think it's counterproductive, but it's legal. You can even set them up in other countries if they let you. But if the million refugees you posit are all actually refugees you still need to give them sanctuary.

But this is way OT, even if I think it's worthwhile to remind people that we can't just yell "we're full" and slam the proverbial door, like so many want to do, this is a thread about something else and something that actually warrants a discussion.

In order to do this, the borders need to be closed, otherwise people will just walk here like now and we need to accept them anyway.
I mentioned before that I don't think that would turn out to be much of a problem with an EU wide universal asylum system. If you tell the refugees that they can live legally in Lithuania or illegally in Germany (because they won't have the right to free residence, due to not being EU citizens yet, and they won't be able to just apply in Germany instead, if the system is EU-wide) I doubt that many will actually choose the latter.

An EU-wide system would strengthen our exterior borders while still allowing our interior borders to remain open. But like I mentioned, I'm dragging the thread off topic, so this will be my last comment on the generalities of the refugee crisis.
 

Valhelm

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It's a universal right. It doesn't matter if some other groups are even more vulnerable because you're required to grant sanctuary to all people that fulfill the criteria for qualifying as a refugee. So queer people, ethnic and religous minorities, children or young women and young men who are refugees all have a right to sanctuary.
There is no fundamental right to enter another country because yours is in shambles. Europe, the United States, and other nations with such wherewithal ought to help bring in these people, but the process needs to be gradual and selective. There's a pretty significant risk of these migrants not being able to cope with their new society, and these attacks may have been related to that dissonance in upbringing and attitudes.

Gemüsepizza;191434886 said:
Young men ARE at high risk. They are the ones who get targeted first by the enemy, they are the ones who get forced to fight. Just look at the drone policy of the USA. They consider every male above 15 years a hostile combatant in a target zone for their drone strikes.
ISIS is pursuing a genocidal campaign against non-Sunni Muslims, with a particular interest in rape and sexual slavery. A young Sunni man is in nowhere near as much danger as his female Yazidi counterpart, because his life is held to be substantially more valuable.
 

Guileless

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There is no fundamental right to enter another country because yours is in shambles. Europe, the United States, and other nations with such wherewithal ought to help bring in these people, but the process needs to be gradual and selective.
In hindsight, a no-fly zone near the border enforced by NATO with UN oversight of refugee camps within the no-fly zone would have been the least bad option. But that was never going to happen while the Iranian nucelar deal was being negotiated because it would have scuttled the deal.
 
Nov 13, 2013
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In hindsight, a no-fly zone near the border enforced by NATO with UN oversight of refugee camps within the no-fly zone would have been the least bad option. But that was never going to happen while the Iranian nucelar deal was being negotiated because it would have scuttled the deal.
It's impossible and has been from day one because a no-fly zone is an act of aggression against the Syrian government. Especially since they're the only ones actually conducting combat flights. With Russian support for Syria being what it is, they would never stand for it. The only reason Syria has tacitly allowed NATO overflights at all is because NATO has been hitting ISIS exclusively. Assad has no interest in accepting foreign interventions on Syrian soil and Russia seems completely prepared to back him up on it.

It's just one of many reasons why there just isn't a solution to the civil war in the percievable future.
 
Feb 13, 2010
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I frankly don't see what this has to do with the right to asylum but for the record I'm in favor of the EU, in cooperation with other world and regional powers, creating a quota system that would safely relocate refugees from the crowded camps near the war zones and bring them to safety in a sustainable manner. That way we could avoid lopsided distributions like we have in Germany and the mad dash to the few, open countries that honor the right to asylum that leaves people drowning in the Mediterranean.

Like the UN quota system was supposed to do, expect actually dimensioned to make a difference.
Quota system relocation from the refugee camps within Syria and nearby war zones sounds like an excellent idea on paper, sure. The problem would be the allocation of resources, space for massive refugee intake with their length of stay being quite undetermined at this stage.

Though I like the idea of creating safe zones within Syria if the war will continue for several more years, but that would require US/Russia to form a coalition which is not going to happen.
 
Jul 7, 2009
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So Merkel is disgusted. Well, that is good.

Now what is she going to do to prevent this from happening again and again?

And if the answer involves anything about German women having to change how they go about their life I will shake my head till the end of time.
 
Jun 8, 2004
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ISIS is pursuing a genocidal campaign against non-Sunni Muslims, with a particular interest in rape and sexual slavery. A young Sunni man is in nowhere near as much danger as his female Yazidi counterpart, because his life is held to be substantially more valuable.
Yeah, a young Sunni man is asked first if he'd like to join ISIS before they get shot, other men just get shot.
 

neorej

ERMYGERD!
Jun 15, 2006
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https://www.facebook.com/katja.schneidt/posts/894333967301382

Open letter to the German government from author Katja Schneidt.

Google Translated:
Dear Federal Government,
one must let you: you have done a great job!
Their efforts to stifle any legitimate criticism of the behavior of some asylum seekers here people immediately with the Nazi lobe in the bud, has borne fruit.
We are now in Germany after all so far that countless women (35 have already filed charges, according to police, the number of unreported cases is much higher), New Year's Eve in Cologne by a horde of rampaging asylum seekers, insulted and were harassed for the worst sexual (yes, it were asylum-seekers, as the police have in the checks prescribed asylum certificates inspected and checked) and only the regional newspapers report on it. It has been these women groped, stuck his fingers into every orifice and partially torn the clothes from his body. The whole accompanied by "Ficki - Ficki" and call "sluts".
The policemen on duty were unable to protect these women as they were thrown from the raging asylum seekers with fireworks. This is a shame for our country!
Where are the major media here? Tagesschau? Wrong! Image? Wrong!
Where is your in Arabic subtitled appeal to these violent asylum seekers, where you make it clear to them that women are not fair game in Germany?
Where is Mr. Gabriel, who condemned these acts in the strongest terms and gross insults pronounce?
Nothing! Not a word!
No, we are even now so that we mention such events dead, not to mention the nationality and quietly cry in our pillows. In view of the many sexual assaults that were part of some asylum seekers so far There are no longer just individual cases. I alone care for seven women, the victims of sexual violence of refugees were in the last six months. But This must not pronounce it. Then one is in fact a Hetzer! A xenophobe! A Nazi! And if one is not, then there is at least the Nazis, with such reports again buoyancy and stoking the Fremdenfeindlicheit.
That this hushing another slap in the face for all the victims, we take approvingly accepted!
Even I was thinking, if I may address the terrible incidents in Cologne. Yes, I can! I'm fighting for so many years against domestic and sexual violence and if I publicly make only those cases in which the offender is a German, I am actually a racist!
I'm not! I like all people, as long as they deal respectfully with their fellow men. I do not care if anyone Muslim, Christian or Jew is. I judge people by their deeds and not by their origin or religion.
The reigns in many Muslim countries another woman picture and emancipation where there is often a foreign concept, but I can not. Now that many people come up with this outdated image of women in our country, but I can not do anything.
But if I thus begin, violence emanating from any of these people, whitewash, hush or to apologize, then I'm very comfortable in the responsibility. I signal to these people so that is that I respect it, that they discriminate against women and to dominate and sexually abuse. That would be wrong!
Therefore, I will not remain silent in view of such incidents, because I would not remain silent if the perpetrators were German.
Everyone can think clearly, know that the majority of people who come here, but not be violent in the light of a million refugees, rich already 10% engaged in sexual violence to have become a victim of sexual violence 100,000 women!
I will be tireless in making the persons seeking protection here men realized that I fully expect you that they do not see German women as fair game and that I expect also that the integration of their wives, sisters and daughters, not their may prevent outdated values!
Who wants to live here must respect our culture without restriction! There is nothing to discuss!
We German women do not want to Ficki - make Ficki and we are not sluts, just waiting to be fucked right times!
We decide who we where touched and that has also kindly to remain so!
And now dear government, I expect that you will finally assume their responsibilities and make the perpetrators realize that we have enough German rapists and do not intend to gradually increase this number further!
 
Sep 19, 2012
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She... is disgusted..? really? Considering that she and all the other naive idiots ignored at best and insulted/attacked at worst basically every single person in Germany with at least somewhat common sense, which in my opinion makes her at least partially responsible..

So maybe after she is done being disgusted she finally can switch on her brain and adjust her viewpoint to freaking reality... same with the "welcome refugee" screamers but in reality after paris and now this they don't matter anymore.
 
Mar 12, 2013
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First police report: http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/just...izeibericht-zur-silvesternacht-a-1070837.html

-The crowd prevented police from interfering with the rapes and robberies
-A man said "I'm Syrian, you must treat me well, Merkel invited me !"
-Witnesses were intimidated into not testifying
-People tore up their asylum papers, saying "I'll get new ones tomorrow"
-Suspects released due to the holding cells being full returned to the station
 
Apr 6, 2009
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First police report: http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/just...izeibericht-zur-silvesternacht-a-1070837.html

-The crowd prevented police from interfering with the rapes and robberies
-A man said "I'm Syrian, you must treat me well, Merkel invited me !"
-Witnesses were intimidated into not testifying
-People tore up their asylum papers, saying "I'll get new ones tomorrow"
-Suspects released due to the holding cells being full returned to the station
Unbelievable. "You must treat me well"? Not if you go around doing crimes.

If you have no papers, are you arrested in Germany? Over here in Holland you must have an ID on you at all times for example or you'll be fined.

People stopping police from helping should be immediately charged as an accomplish to the crime.

Abusing the systems we have in place to help people. If that happens often enough, you can't convince the public to continue these efforts much longer.
 
Mar 5, 2007
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First police report: http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/just...izeibericht-zur-silvesternacht-a-1070837.html

-The crowd prevented police from interfering with the rapes and robberies
-A man said "I'm Syrian, you must treat me well, Merkel invited me !"
-Witnesses were intimidated into not testifying
-People tore up their asylum papers, saying "I'll get new ones tomorrow"
-Suspects released due to the holding cells being full returned to the station
Geez if this true, sounds like some right winger's wet dreams come to life. Yikes.
 
Apr 14, 2009
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Not very relevant, but I would like to know why they were so drunk assuming they were Muslims? I know Germans of e.g. Turkish origin are just lax on these things but I did not expect refugees to make compromises with their faith so fast.
 

neorej

ERMYGERD!
Jun 15, 2006
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Not very relevant, but I would like to know why they were so drunk assuming they were Muslims? I know Germans of e.g. Turkish origin are just lax on these things but I did not expect refugees to make compromises with their faith so fast.
Where did you get that they were drunk?
 
Feb 24, 2013
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Would mandatory law/morality classes for all students and immigrants help prevent things like this from happening?
Propably not. There is no culture where rape is accepted and celebrated. The people doing this know that it is perceived as wrong by everyone, they just don't care.
 
Apr 14, 2009
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Where did you get that they were drunk?
Probably from the dozens of news reports about crowds of drunk men.
yeah it's mentioned in the Spiegel article as well. They were apparently drunk long before as AFAIK the place around the Cathedral/train station was initially cleared due to the same crowd shooting firework at each other/people/buildings.

On the other hand they could just behave so shitty that witnesses would mistake them for drunks.
 

neorej

ERMYGERD!
Jun 15, 2006
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yeah it's mentioned in the Spiegel article as well. They were apparently drunk long before as AFAIK the place around the Cathedral/train station was initially cleared due to the same crowd shooting firework at each other/people/buildings.

On the other hand they could just behave so shitty that witnesses would mistake them for drunks.
I cannot speak for the men in question, but from my experience, the rules on what you are and are not allowed, can be very bendy. For men that is.
 
Oct 18, 2011
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Not very relevant, but I would like to know why they were so drunk assuming they were Muslims? I know Germans of e.g. Turkish origin are just lax on these things but I did not expect refugees to make compromises with their faith so fast.
Thinking that just because someone is Muslim does prevent them from being drunk is kinda short-sighted

I cannot speak for the men in question, but from my experience, the rules on what you are and are not allowed, can be very bendy. For men that is.
Nailed it
 
Apr 10, 2014
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Two young girls (15 and 14) were raped by 4 Syrian refugees on New Years Eve.
Police kept it quiet until now.

http://www.swr.de/landesschau-aktuell/bw/suedbaden/weil-am-rhein-offenbar-gruppenvergewaltigung/-/id=1552/did=16755784/nid=1552/1enesmd/index.html

Welcome to the new germany.
What the hell, looks like a chain reaction, the victims now speak up, are not so ashamed because it happened to so many, Report from Austria Salzburg, also on the NYE http://salzburg.orf.at/m/news/stories/2751104/

Sexual harassment and theft in this city, but the bouncer of a club held an Afghani (24) till the police came. Was it all organized or just a coincidence?
 
Mar 28, 2014
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Apr 6, 2009
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I hope more people speak up and don't keep quiet about this. There is no reason to keep this from the media and people, and trying to silence it will only grow distrust everywhere.

If these things happen too much, we seriously should reconsider just letting people roam the streets during the asylum process. And for people already granted a stay, they should be punished heavily and quickly. Just a night in jail and free housing and food again the next day will not impress these criminals.
 
Jun 1, 2009
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This is the first time in a long while that I'm genuinely worried about the situation in Germany as a whole. I'm worried about safety during future public events, a significant increase in popularity for right-wing extremist parties and the situation for law-abiding refugees.

It's so fucked up
 
Apr 18, 2012
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For fucks sake! Withholding or skewing information only plays right into the extreme rights hands! Europe is going to be in a very dark place after the next round of elections and "the media" will bear a lot of the responsibility for putting the people they so resent into power.

Fuck!
 
Apr 14, 2009
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They are obviously concerned about being seen to promote racial violence. But it only plays into far right hands when any reasonable person would think that the prevention is worse than the disease.
Yeah it seems that the police got some regulations regarding publishing information about crimes in which refugees were involved. It makes sense on the one hand as any such crime is used as ammunition by the far right, so the police is probably forced to investigate beyond doubt before announcing anything.

This can go horribly wrong though, last year a Tunisian refugee beat and raped a girl in my city but the police put the information on hold and then kinda forgot to publish the case at all...
http://www.durlacher.de/start/neuig...ation-der-bevoelkerung-durch-die-polizei.html
(German source only sorry)

(girl put a up a good fight btw, prevented penetration with her legs and when he forced her to perform oral sex she bit in this dick's dick)


edit: I'm not sure you can blame the media here as they depend on official information by the police (at least I prefer that over posting rumors and shit). Though the article is right that many outlets really twist information to cater to either their left or right audience (who read it because it fits their narrative and the circle is complete!). Very frustrating imo, you don't need to make everything political. Especially crimes.
 
Apr 6, 2009
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For fucks sake! Withholding or skewing information only plays right into the extreme rights hands! Europe is going to be in a very dark place after the next round of elections and "the media" will bear a lot of the responsibility.

Fuck!
The politicians without a clear answer to these problems are the most to blame. Some still rather look away and hope these troubles disappear on their own. They won't. Until the left and center parties have a good strategy to deal with these issues and take away the fear and feeling of helplessness a lot of people feel, they will end up losing votes to the far right.
 
Jun 8, 2004
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For fucks sake! Withholding or skewing information only plays right into the extreme rights hands! Europe is going to be in a very dark place after the next round of elections and "the media" will bear a lot of the responsibility.

Fuck!
Actually there are also women who are racist with far right mentalities, and are claiming rapes and gropings etc. when nothing has happened. These people shouldn't be given the media exposure they want. The police should check their claims first.
 
Aug 17, 2012
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Actually there are also women who are racist with far right mentalities, and are claiming rapes and gropings etc. when nothing has happened. These people shouldn't be given the media exposure they want. The police should check their claims first.
This a very bold statement you make, as normally you'd be hanged by your balls if you wrote this in any other topic regarding false rape accusations.
 

D4Danger

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Dec 5, 2008
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Actually there are also women who are racist with far right mentalities, and are claiming rapes and gropings etc. when nothing has happened. These people shouldn't be given the media exposure they want. The police should check their claims first.
you're trying to muddy the waters. just stop.
 
Jun 8, 2004
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Nov 17, 2006
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This is the first time in a long while that I'm genuinely worried about the situation in Germany as a whole. I'm worried about safety during future public events, a significant increase in popularity for right-wing extremist parties and the situation for law-abiding refugees.

It's so fucked up
These incidents are really breaking fundamental rules of human society and it really makes you so mad, imo.

But I hope we will be just as resilient as ever and in hindsight these incidents just elevated the discussion on a more pragmatic and no-more-bs from either political spectrum level. I believe we will deal with it appropriately. There are already talks now about fucking finally overhauling the deportation rules, which has always been such a hot potato. And we have to have a plan for fair chances and demands for the new arrivals.
 
Apr 6, 2009
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tbd

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Jun 13, 2015
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Two young girls (15 and 14) were raped by 4 Syrian refugees on New Years Eve.
Police kept it quiet until now.

http://www.swr.de/landesschau-aktuell/bw/suedbaden/weil-am-rhein-offenbar-gruppenvergewaltigung/-/id=1552/did=16755784/nid=1552/1enesmd/index.html

Welcome to the new germany.
According to the article the victims knew the perpetrators and they wanted to celebrate New Year's eve together.

Obviously terrible, but a totally different case than the gang assaults on strangers in Cologne
 
Sep 12, 2009
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The politicians without a clear answer to these problems are the most to blame. Some still rather look away and hope these troubles disappear on their own. They won't. Until the left and center parties have a good strategy to deal with these issues and take away the fear and feeling of helplessness a lot of people feel, they will end up losing votes to the far right.
Most just seem confident with condemning the events and saying the criminals should be punished, despite knowing that actual convictions are rather unlikely.

It's kind of reminds me of the reactions to whenever an asylum seeker home gets attacked. A lot of condemnation but no real idea what to do about it.
 
Apr 6, 2009
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According to the article the victims knew the perpetrators and they wanted to celebrate New Year's eve together.

Obviously terrible, but a totally different case than the gang assaults on strangers in Cologne
My German might be rust, but I can't seem to find that info there?

Most just seem confident with condemning the events and saying the criminals should be punished, despite knowing that actual convictions are actually unlikely.

It's kind of reminds me of the reactions to whenever an asylum seeker home gets attacked. A lot of condemnation but not real idea what to do about it.
Large part of the problem is people are getting away with these things. If you know you are not going to get caught - and apparently have no trouble hurting others - these criminals will just keep continuing doing stuff like this.

Edit: meanwhile, amount of charges in Cologne up to 121, including 2 rapes. Hamburg charges at over 50. Around 75% of charges are of sexual assault.
 
Apr 23, 2015
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Not very relevant, but I would like to know why they were so drunk assuming they were Muslims? I know Germans of e.g. Turkish origin are just lax on these things but I did not expect refugees to make compromises with their faith so fast.
More than half the Muslims I know drink, so I don't think it's seen as that unforgiveable, for men in particular. The one thing I've found pretty much all of my Muslim and Jewish acquaintances to be rigorous about is not eating pork. Though I get the feeling for some of them it's an easy get out of jail card that rationalises not following all of the other rules.
 
Nov 30, 2011
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Two young girls (15 and 14) were raped by 4 Syrian refugees on New Years Eve.
Police kept it quiet until now.

http://www.swr.de/landesschau-aktuell/bw/suedbaden/weil-am-rhein-offenbar-gruppenvergewaltigung/-/id=1552/did=16755784/nid=1552/1enesmd/index.html

Welcome to the new germany.
Police usually doesn't release much information about rape cases, to protect the victims. Also, there is nothing in this article you have linked about police "hiding" it. Those insane conspiracy theories from right wing radicals like you are getting tiring.
 
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