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Giant Bomb GOTY 2015 - Metal Gear Meets Its Mario Maker
- Thread starter daydream
- Start date
stump sock
Member
also I kind of wish people would stop comparing Bethesda game design to clockwork
you know, because clocks are designed to be predictable and functional to a fault
you know, because clocks are designed to be predictable and functional to a fault
I don't disagree with any of this and I haven't even played Fallout 4, nor do I like the series, I was just saying that Brad didn't pull his argument out of thin air.
Berserker976
Member
No one should be trying to argue Fallout 4 is as buggy as New Vegas. If you're just going to say it's all arbitrary anyway then why bother complaining about bugs in the first place?
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Well, not really for mechanical watches.
It is pretty much impossible to tune mechanical watches to stay consistent.
NV's bugs were on another planet, yeah. Not surprising given the developer.
Yeah, like I said with TellTale earlier, I think you have to experience them to be put off by them. Vegas was a mess with me compared to even Oblivion, but I put that down to Obsidan on Gamebryo, a buggy team on a buggy engine.
On PS4, I didn't get a lot of what Jeff complained about. Obviously there were still some issues with the framerate, but I didn't get any when reloading a gun specifically. Running of an SSHD in 720p, not sure if the latter would make a difference (I think GT6 is the only game off the top of my head that has a better framerate on a lower res on a console).
Luckily, only bugs I got my entire playthrough of FO4 were graphical glitches, some hilarious.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Because people experienced it, and the guys on the podcast can only go by what they experienced.
Also it's not like the performance issues on consoles aren't widely experienced. At least it doesn't corrupt your save like skyrim did though, I'll give it that.
Also why is NV the go to comparison anyway? It has far more in common with skyrim than NV, as far as tech and systems go.
Probably has something to do with Beth/Zeni pushing forward the release a few months. :V
They were also responsible for QA :V :V :V
I dunno. I played Alpha Protocol before any patches.
It's most definitely a buggy mess but yeah New Vegas was on its own other level with that shit.
Did you play it after patches? STILL A BUGGY MESS.
Sleeping Lesson
Member
Didn't that clay Kirby game come out this year? I thought that was better looking than Wooly World.
Dan hated that game so much that he forgot about it.
Ha, I figured. Still love the game though, don't get me wrong.
I do actually think that their guns for hire model didn't help them, gotta hit them deadlines. Although their camera issues across Neverwinter Nights and Dungeon Siege 3 were hilarious. WHO LET THE SAME GUY DO THEM?!
Stick of Truth had plenty of time in limbo to be polished and no camera to worry about, but if they're now doing their own thing and only have their own deadlines to worry about, I think they'll be fine.
Zeouterlimits
Member
I think it was profoundly disappointing, so people have kind of forgotten it.
The unfortunate thing about a really nice art style wrapped around a really forgettable and dull game is that people forget about it. I also think it looked really good.
stump sock
Member
I actually ended up buying that game twice. I bought it first for pc but it was so buggy that it was unplayable, so I got it for console. at least after some patches it actually ran on my pc.
stump sock
Member
hahahhaha that EDM one is perfect
And that they can make their own IPs and work with them longer than one game should help somewhat.
I would also have accepted a very, very airbrushed picture of a woman on a bicycle or something as the background art.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
The EDM banners I'm familiar with have 1000% more women in bikinis.
Berserker976
Member
Can anyone explain to me what Vinny meant by comparing Xenoblade to FO4? Was it just that the former pushed the WiiU to the limit and didn't break anything unlike FO4 and current gen consoles? Because I didn't understand what he was going for and it's clear he didn't think Austin or Brad got it either.
Yes it does. There was a thread about it just the other day. It is a lot less prevalent though.
I mean, I loved The Witcher 3 OST but I couldn't name one song from it either except stuff like "That skellige song you know what I mean " It's not like they give you a playlist ingame or something.
saveweyard
Banned
How? Skyrim and Fallout 4 were built using the same engine, which is an upgraded version of the engine they used from Morrowind to Fallout 3.
Yes. NV actually had interesting systems. NV actually had good writing, quests and attempts at big boy lore.
Yeah, that was pretty much it. I didn't think it was a very convincing argument even though I got what he was going for.
Delt31
Member
I'm assuming it's b/c they have no equipment and there doing real make shift stuff. If that's it, I understand but it just wasn't entertaining and that's something I rarely say about GB. Is it something else?
Berserker976
Member
I mean yeah, in terms of engine version it's probably more similar to Skyrim, but in terms of what they're asking it to do, it seems like it'd be more similar to a previous fallout game. I'm no game maker though, so what do I know?
Ehh, Stick of Truth could reaaally chug on PS3.
True.
I really like the Novigrad city music, so I just call it Novigrad theme song xD
It is a perfectly serviceable argument.
Here is a game that is pushing its tech and systems, however much it is pushing the hardware, it doesn't let its systems spin out of control. The systems in that game, serve the game instead of being end goals in of themselves. They integrated every aspect in order to create a solid end product.
The Bethesda way is to to graft shit to their game. Coherency both technically and as an end product does not matter. Here is a bunch of shit, go play in your sandbox filled with syringes and broken glass.
Salty Catfish
Member
I played it last night after seeing it on a few Giant Bomb top 10s, and yeah, that game resonated with me on a near-frightening level.
Sure, but are you supposed to record a podcast to determine who has the best soundtrack? I don't expect them to know everything but at least have an example queued up and not ask them to go to the sound track and choose a few songs (dan)
Also after oblivion and fallout 3 and Skyrim and new Vegas, I don't understand what Jeff was expecting to be so radically different about fallout 4. And I find it odd that he was relying on his idea of what fallout 4 was supposed to be as why it's the most disappointing, when he dismissed that same reason for Tony hawk
Also goddamn do I hate immersion arguments
Thank you Dan for making sense of the fallout 4 argument
Sleeping Lesson
Member
Yeah I suppose you're all right about it being a bad game, but I loved the look of it. Should have at least been mentioned for Best Looking!
I didn't understand what he was talking about either and I felt kinda bad that he kept repeating it and no one was getting it.
Then YOU are SOFT!!
Lost my shit when Jeff said that haha. Fallout 4 should not be given a free pass. Brad was saying it's easy to be a arm-chair designer but then proceeded to argue as if he knew all the ins and out working in Bethesda? I appreciate that these games have huge systems in place and the scope of these games are huge.
But I whole-heartedly agree with Jeff. Look at how long they've been in the business of making these games and they did NOTHING in terms of innovation or making this entry remarkably stand out against the previous games. It was "Just another one of those".
Same character animations, similar systems in place. The jank I can kind of live with (even though some bugs should've, in my opinion, been caught during Q&A testing. And in all those five years no thought of finally dropping the shithouse engine that is gamebryo and developing an in house engine suitable to the kind of games you make did not come during the brain-storming process in the conception of this game? We have been waiting 5 years and been given the same thing, Jeff had every right to feel as strongly as he did for Fallout 4.
Lost my shit when Jeff said that haha. Fallout 4 should not be given a free pass. Brad was saying it's easy to be a arm-chair designer but then proceeded to argue as if he knew all the ins and out working in Bethesda? I appreciate that these games have huge systems in place and the scope of these games are huge.
But I whole-heartedly agree with Jeff. Look at how long they've been in the business of making these games and they did NOTHING in terms of innovation or making this entry remarkably stand out against the previous games. It was "Just another one of those".
Same character animations, similar systems in place. The jank I can kind of live with (even though some bugs should've, in my opinion, been caught during Q&A testing. And in all those five years no thought of finally dropping the shithouse engine that is gamebryo and developing an in house engine suitable to the kind of games you make did not come during the brain-storming process in the conception of this game? We have been waiting 5 years and been given the same thing, Jeff had every right to feel as strongly as he did for Fallout 4.
But isn't the point of Bethesda games pretty much "Here is a bunch of shit, go play", and that's what made them so popular? I'm not sure either Bethesda or their fans want them to tone that down. Brad and Austin's point was that that's the kind of game Bethesda wants to make and that's why it's so damn difficult to make everything work. Of course there's games pushing the system they're on, but that's not the point here. I'm sure Uncharted 4 will push the PS4, but it's a whole different thing.
But again, we're going around in circles.
Spirit of Jazz
Banned
I think the size of a game can give some leeway to the amount of bugs it has on release. However it's less excusable for Bethesda because they just make the same game over and over on the same engine whilst the same bugs rear their heads with every release.
People can shit on NV all they want, but I ended up having more/bigger bugs in FV4. I can't remember going through a quest without a glitch and my playthrough ended when a story crucial area of the map refused to load for me and constantly hardcrashed my game.
People can shit on NV all they want, but I ended up having more/bigger bugs in FV4. I can't remember going through a quest without a glitch and my playthrough ended when a story crucial area of the map refused to load for me and constantly hardcrashed my game.
CoolBatteryCharge
Member
The way I interpreted what Vinny was saying was that we thought we knew the limits of the Wii U until Xenoblade Chronicles X happened and therefore seeing how games run on newer consoles now isn't an indication of their technical potential.
I'm probably wrong.
I'm probably wrong.
I didn't listen to the podcast yet but I imagine this exchange played out kinda like this.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
I think it's a flawed argument though, because even if you want to use the "live testing is going to find more bugs than QA" argument, they did have live testing. It's called skyrim. They used the same engine. Sure they've bolted some stuff on but it's still the same engine underneath it all.