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Gillette (Yes, the razor company) chastises men in new commercial highlighting #metoo movement

hariseldon

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I've no idea who the director is and it is certainly provocative, but why is the controversial? The intended message appears to be good to me. Don't engage toxic behavior.

There's a leap being made from this, I'm not suggesting you engage in this behavior, but do just just very much dislike social politics? I hadn't considered that as a reason.
The director's history has been discussed at length in this thread. Feel free to read it before adding your hot take because you've come in missing a lot of pretty useful information and have gone off half-cocked as a result.
 

KarneeKarnay

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No it is not a leap because it fits the modern feminist ideology which stigmatized the withe men as problem of everything regarding sexism and racism. and here we do not have 1 white person. There are like 40 white people who are the bad example. And NOT ONE black Asian etc Person NOT ONE. It was not a coincidence. It was not a coincidence to use the sentence that SOME Men are good.
That's just not true. I could time link parts where there are black and asian men in the video.

This commercial is utterly racist and sexist because it is based on generalization a shitty ideology (modern feminism) has. And it stigmatizes white men/boys even further.
I think it would be strange to advertise a male razor to women. Also I've read up on feminism, at least enough to the difference between third and fourth wave of which we are on now. I've not seen anything that says it's specifically against white men or boys. In fact I think a lot of fourth wave focuses on discrimination that occurs within minority groups. Much more attention is towards places like the Middle East and Asia, than Europe and America.

There are already hundreds of articles on news sites how whiteness is causing everything.
Sure, but there are also articles about how the chem trails turn the frogs gay. I wouldn't pay attention to those either.

Whiteness is a problem while hiking while eating, while dancing, while being on the Internet, using a bike, going rafting, drinking tee, teaching yoga basically just exist. And I will not support such a racist view and generalization in ANY way or FORM.

No one would have cried if they have just talking about toxic masculinity but the utterly generalization is what makes men and women mad.
But what is the generalization? I kind of feel like this is a retread of the MAGA hat discussion, where people don't understand what generalisations are.

I'm not saying all men engage in toxic behavior, I'm saying a lot of men still are. What's the difference between this and the advert?
 

KarneeKarnay

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The director's history has been discussed at length in this thread. Feel free to read it before adding your hot take because you've come in missing a lot of pretty useful information and have gone off half-cocked as a result.
2 things.

1. I'm not going to read a 39 page thread and expecting people to do so is like some sort of purity test nonsense.

2. I believe in the Death of Author. I believe that once something has been released into the public, the Authors intent really doesn't matter much. Enders Game is a great series, at least the first book is pretty good. I'm saddened by the fact the author is a bigot, but I'm trying to not let that association ruin my experience of the book.
 

Dunki

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That's just not true. I could time link parts where there are black and asian men in the video.
Not as bad examples. there are minority characters yes but they are the ones who are the role models. Stopping their white friends, stepping in, being nice to their child etc.


Sure, but there are also articles about how the chem trails turn the frogs gay. I wouldn't pay attention to those either.
These are done by BIG Media sties, New York Times, Guardian, MSNBC, Times etc. these are not small conspiracy nutjobs. Just go to big feminism sites and search for the word white.
Everyday feminism for example: has hundredsof articles about it. And every article points white people as dangerous and problematic. Especially White males.


I'm not saying all men engage in toxic behavior, I'm saying a lot of men still are. What's the difference between this and the advert?
the difference is that the commercial says that SOME are good meaning most are not which in the end makes it a generalization of a whole gender. the fact that all bad examples white play into the racist aspect of this commercial.

Also let me get this straight. I am totally fine with feminism but modern feminism has nothing to do with equality anymore. That is also why old established feminist do not want to do anything with modern feminism.
 

hariseldon

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2 things.

1. I'm not going to read a 39 page thread and expecting people to do so is like some sort of purity test nonsense.

2. I believe in the Death of Author. I believe that once something has been released into the public, the Authors intent really doesn't matter much. Enders Game is a great series, at least the first book is pretty good. I'm saddened by the fact the author is a bigot, but I'm trying to not let that association ruin my experience of the book.
1. First up, if you ask people to listen to your opinions then it's only fair that you take some time to listen to theirs. It's your call but you'll get more people engaging in you with proper respect if you do that. I'm pretty sure you'll find something in the last couple of pages. No purity test, just pointing out that laziness in refusing to read about key items that disprove your argument is a bit intellectually dishonest.

2. You are being intellectually dishonest, or you don't understand Death Of Author. First up, I mostly agree that this is true. I won't follow Eurogamer's directive that I should abandon all games with elements from Lovecraft because the old guy was a racist, because the games likely aren't racist. I'm sure many of the authors of books I enjoy also hold views I would find questionable. I separate art from artist in those cases. This, however, is not presented as a work of fiction, a piece of art, it is instead presented as a collection of facts and a call to action, political activism. On that basis, one must include relevant facts about the person. The person voting left or right is not relevant. The person being gay, straight, white or black is irrelevant. The person liking nachos is irrelevant. The person hating men is relevant, especially to the debate we're having. A misandrist lecturing men is a bit like a KKK member lecturing black people. The source matters.

If a director has a history of anti-male documentaries then it should be no surprise that this one is anti-male. Further, contrasting her previous work ThisGirlCan vs this video to see the difference in how men and women are treated by this director exposes hypocrisy, which is relevant to the discussion.
 
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..I'm not going to read a 39 page thread and expecting people to do so is like some sort of purity test nonsense.
Expecting people to engage with a discussion by understanding the discussion first is not a purity test, it is the most basic level on which to be credible in said discussion.

Refusing to engage and then dismissing and demeaning those that already have is pretty toxic behaviour.
Given your admiration for Gillette's message it's telling how you appear to take so much satisfaction in ignoring it.
 

KarneeKarnay

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1. First up, if you ask people to listen to your opinions then it's only fair that you take some time to listen to theirs. It's your call but you'll get more people engaging in you with proper respect if you do that. I'm pretty sure you'll find something in the last couple of pages. No purity test, just pointing out that laziness in refusing to read about key items that disprove your argument is a bit intellectually dishonest.
That's exactly what you're doing though. You are purity testing people. You're telling me I can't engage in a conversation unless I read up on X amount of time. You sound like a communist who would ask you what books you read and tell you stfu if you didn't read one of the ones they read. If this is such an important part of the argument, then I am sure you could link me to a post.

2. You are being intellectually dishonest, or you don't understand Death Of Author. First up, I mostly agree that this is true. I won't follow Eurogamer's directive that I should abandon all games with elements from Lovecraft because the old guy was a racist, because the games likely aren't racist. I'm sure many of the authors of books I enjoy also hold views I would find questionable. I separate art from artist in those cases. This, however, is not presented as a work of fiction, a piece of art, it is instead presented as a collection of facts and a call to action, political activism.
How? How was this defined as fact? What part?

On that basis, one must include relevant facts about the person. The person voting left or right is not relevant. The person being gay, straight, white or black is irrelevant. The person liking nachos is irrelevant. The person hating men is relevant, especially to the debate we're having. A misandrist lecturing men is a bit like a KKK member lecturing black people. The source matters.

If a director has a history of anti-male documentaries then it should be no surprise that this one is anti-male. Further, contrasting her previous work ThisGirlCan vs this video to see the difference in how men and women are treated by this director exposes hypocrisy, which is relevant to the discussion.
Can you prove she's a misandrist?


Expecting people to engage with a discussion by understanding the discussion first is not a purity test, it is the most basic level on which to be credible in said discussion.

Refusing to engage and then dismissing and demeaning those that already have is pretty toxic behaviour.
Given your admiration for Gillette's message it's telling how you appear to take so much satisfaction in ignoring it.
 

hariseldon

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*sigh* the thing is when someone does what you're doing it's tiring. No it's not a purity test it's a "fucking hell we've gone through this 50 times with the other hot-takers who did exactly the same thing you're doing. It's lazy and it's fucking annoying.

The fact that you're struggling to read even my simple quotes leads me to believe that you are not sincere in aiming to get out of the echo chamber, or you are lacking in reading comprehension. Maybe you're dyslexic and I should cut you some slack. Who knows, but honestly I have a feeling, from your posts so far, that no amount of posts, links, pointers to cliff-notes for the stuff you're too lazy to read (but you still insist that you're right and we must listen to you) will make a damn bit of difference to anything.
 

MilkyJoe

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I've no idea who the director is and it is certainly provocative, but why is the controversial? The intended message appears to be good to me. Don't engage toxic behavior.

There's a leap being made from this, I'm not suggesting you engage in this behavior, but do just just very much dislike social politics? I hadn't considered that as a reason.
Not you, Gillette.

You'll probably find most normal thinking people have had enough of social and identity politics. I cannot think of a movement that induces as much eye rolling. It's in movies, it's in games, it's in politics, it's in sports, it's mostly based on outrage at stuff that doesn't mirror reality. I'm not entertaining it, especially in advertising.
 

matt404au

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The feigned “what’s everyone so upset about?” schtick is pretty annoying when there’s 40 pages answering that exact question.
 

hariseldon

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I would like to know so I can avoid making the same mistake.
From what I've seen you're safe. He came back after a long absence and posted hot takes with no intention of actually debating, just "I am right and if you ask me to read the posts where my points were disproved it's a purity test" etc. Likely on a mission from ree.
 

Zog

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From what I've seen you're safe. He came back after a long absence and posted hot takes with no intention of actually debating, just "I am right and if you ask me to read the posts where my points were disproved it's a purity test" etc. Likely on a mission from ree.
Truth is, I also won't read 40 pages before I contribute to a thread.
 

hariseldon

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Truth is, I also won't read 40 pages before I contribute to a thread.
I'd say that the issue was that he was uninterested in reading ANY pages, and was dismissing any point made without an interest in the fact that his point had been debunked thoroughly. It's pretty disingenuous. A quick skim would have sufficed, and he'd have found something in the last few pages if he was bothered.
 

Zog

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Then don't expect people to tell you what's already been said to death in those 40 pages.
If it's been said to death it would also appear in the last few pages that I would read before jumping in. Conversations move and I am more interested in where the conversation is NOW, not where it started so the last few pages are the most important.

Tell me though, do you really read the entire thread every time before you post? Seems like an incredible time sink to me.

I'd say that the issue was that he was uninterested in reading ANY pages, and was dismissing any point made without an interest in the fact that his point had been debunked thoroughly. It's pretty disingenuous. A quick skim would have sufficed, and he'd have found something in the last few pages if he was bothered.
It's common for people to continue to argue their point (and pretend not to understand the opposition) in any discussion. In any thread every side will have made their point over and over the longer the thread goes. I am confused why this one was ban worthy. I guess it just kinda caught me off guard is all.
 
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hariseldon

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As I say, appearing after a long absence, doing it everywhere, it has all the hallmarks of drive-by wankerishness. It's a combination of things imo. That said, I can't pretend to know the contents of the mods minds, but for me it was worth some mod action, be it a ban or something else.
 

Zog

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As I say, appearing after a long absence, doing it everywhere, it has all the hallmarks of drive-by wankerishness. It's a combination of things imo. That said, I can't pretend to know the contents of the mods minds, but for me it was worth some mod action, be it a ban or something else.
Yeah, I was just curious.
 

matt404au

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@dragonfart28 can we get an updated stock market prediction after this reprehensible new ad featuring a blue-eyed, blonde-haired white nuclear military family which is clearly an alt-right dogwhistle to re-establish the Aryan master race and repeal Roe v. Wade?

 

LegendOfKage

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@dragonfart28 can we get an updated stock market prediction after this reprehensible new ad featuring a blue-eyed, blonde-haired white nuclear military family which is clearly an alt-right dogwhistle to re-establish the Aryan master race and repeal Roe v. Wade?


* Comments are disabled for this video *

That's not a joke. Ratings are disabled as well.
 
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Cosmogony

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I've no idea who the director is and it is certainly provocative, but why is the controversial? The intended message appears to be good to me. Don't engage toxic behavior.
Fantastic,
Since you're one of the enlightened, would you mind sharing why a man cold-approaching a women he finds attractive on the street is toxic per se? And is it always toxic, even if she responds positively, is it?

And would that be your personal opinion, or something more substantive than that?

And if it's just your opinion, why on Earth should anyone with both hemispheres working give a damn?

There's a leap being made from this, I'm not suggesting you engage in this behavior, but do just just very much dislike social politics?
It is revelatory that you would frame this as a matter of preference, as thouhg you were talking about ice-cream flavours of the day.

Social Justice is unjust and therefore it ought to be opposed. Even the term hints at that. Regular justice wouldn't bend, so the caveat "Social" had to be included.

I hadn't considered that as a reason.
Consider going through some Milton and some Sowell then.
 

dopey

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Fantastic,
Since you're one of the enlightened, would you mind sharing why a man cold-approaching a women he finds attractive on the street is toxic per se? And is it always toxic, even if she responds positively, is it?
How many of us would not exist today if not for the reason that one of our parents had the 'toxicity' of spontaneously approaching someone they found attractive and trying to hit it off ? It's so absurd.

I have a fond memory of being 'picked up' by a woman in a public library, I heard some giggling as a went past a table, and while I was perusing the stacks, a woman came up to me and said 'I don't do this ever, but here is my number, call me if you'd like to go out some time'.

I was quite surprised given the setting, and quite flattered. It was nothing 'toxic' whatsoever. We did end up going out and had a short thing which could have blossomed into something more if not for really bad timing. I'm really happy she had the nerve to approach me out of the blue.
 

michaelius

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Looks like they found new way of promoting healthy lifestyle



Also remainder what they most likely want to achieve

 

DeepEnigma

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Looks like they found new way of promoting healthy lifestyle



Also remainder what they most likely want to achieve

You never see them promote pro acceptance movements for bulimic or anorexic because people universally agree that's not healthy.

Gluttony.
 

DunDunDunpachi

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You never see them promote pro acceptance movements for bulimic or anorexic because people universally agree that's not healthy.

Gluttony.
Yeah, but unlike anti-vaxxers or people who advocate for getting rid of all fossil fuels, fat acceptance is a fairly harmless social problem. I expect it will sort itself out within a generation or two. Sadly, people will eat themselves out of the gene pool but that's a natural result of freedom and prosperity.
 

DeepEnigma

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Yeah, but unlike anti-vaxxers or people who advocate for getting rid of all fossil fuels, fat acceptance is a fairly harmless social problem. I expect it will sort itself out within a generation or two. Sadly, people will eat themselves out of the gene pool but that's a natural result of freedom and prosperity.
Minus the burden on insurance rates, medical costs, heart transplant lists, etc..
 

hariseldon

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Is there perhaps a connection between people who want all these things to be provided by the State and the people who want to invent terms like "fat shaming"? :pie_thinking:
I believe single payer healthcare is the right way to go, the NHS is one of the UK's finest achievements. I am not fat (12 stone - 5ft10).

Btw that tweet is some pandering bullshit. It's promoting obesity, and obesity is VERY unhealthy. Fucking idiots.
 
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RedVIper

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Looks like they found new way of promoting healthy lifestyle



Also remainder what they most likely want to achieve

1. You don't get to redefine beautiful gillete.
2.Promoting unhealthy bodies is a problem, I don't think anyone has a problem with models who are a bit curvy, but this women is obese, telling people it okay to be like this is stupid.
 

NickFire

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Looks like they found new way of promoting healthy lifestyle

Listen here you degenerates. I've learned a lot from their first ad this year. If you see this model in the wild, do not cat call her, do not whistle at her, and by all means do not pinch her butt. I know it will be hard to resist those things while she's out there slaying the day, but please do better.
 
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DunDunDunpachi

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I believe single payer healthcare is the right way to go, the NHS is one of the UK's finest achievements. I am not fat (12 stone - 5ft10).
Our worst diseases in the West appear to have their root in our poor diet. I'm not paying taxes for a fatass to swipe their foodstamp card and buy tubs of ice-cream and then get a free heart transplant when theirs gives up a few decades early.

Gov't intervention may have helped other countries with their healthcare, but for the USA to delve into that issue with all these other societal problems is like the Gov't spending tax money to send every alcoholic a stomach-pump to deal with their own alcohol poisoning.
 

Shaqazooloo

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So, I guess my take away from the gilette ads is that men need to improve and we should feel ashamed of ourselves, while women are awesome and should be celebrated even the disgustingly morbidly obese ones.

Seems legit...
 

Solomeena

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Fuck Gillette, thanks to their SJW cock sucking i moved to using Dollar Shave Club razors and using a badger brush and shave soap. I am working on other ways to stop giving my money to P&G, fuck these ass clowns.
 

Zog

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Our worst diseases in the West appear to have their root in our poor diet. I'm not paying taxes for a fatass to swipe their foodstamp card and buy tubs of ice-cream and then get a free heart transplant when theirs gives up a few decades early.

Gov't intervention may have helped other countries with their healthcare, but for the USA to delve into that issue with all these other societal problems is like the Gov't spending tax money to send every alcoholic a stomach-pump to deal with their own alcohol poisoning.
Aren't your insurance rates affected by these people too?
 

DunDunDunpachi

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Aren't your insurance rates affected by these people too?
Yes, "cannot be denied for pre-existing conditions" gave the insurance companies the green light to increase everyone's rates in compensation. So the healthy people get punished and the unhealthy people still can't get the treatment they need at a reasonable cost.
 

Trojita

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The insurance thing always comes off a fallacy because people that live a long life usually have the most money spent in the long run. Senior care is fucking expensive.
 

DeepEnigma

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Yes, "cannot be denied for pre-existing conditions" gave the insurance companies the green light to increase everyone's rates in compensation. So the healthy people get punished and the unhealthy people still can't get the treatment they need at a reasonable cost.
It was an insurance company racket and also a racket on the taxpayers.
 

NickFire

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The insurance thing always comes off a fallacy because people that live a long life usually have the most money spent in the long run. Senior care is fucking expensive.
For society as a whole I can see your point. But for just private health insurance: 1) Medicare kicks in at 65; 2) Long term nursing care usually requires a separate policy, no? Isn't that the whole point of Medicaid planning?
 

Ogbert

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I can’t pretend to get angry about a fat lady on a beach. If it makes a few people feel better about themselves, it’s not the worst thing.

I don’t think anyone actually thinks it’s healthy. Or attractive.
 

ChuckeRearmed

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Does she use Gillette to cut those folds of skin or something? :messenger_downcast_sweat: Poor joints.

The problem with that stuff is that just like with anorexic models - a lot of girls will try to copy that...And then cry for expensive medicine to cure their health problems.
 
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