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Girl, 11, ‘consented’ to sex with man, 28, French prosecutors declare

Koren

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Mar 11, 2005
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So you're saying that someone who uses violence to sexually abuse a child deserves the same jail time as someone who doesn't? Should he have more than five years? Yes. But should he get as much jail time as someone who threatened / used violence to get their way? Of course not.
It's more when there's other things, like authority, violence, etc.

The problem is that the basis shouldn't probably be 5. Although it's probably low in the case of 14 and 18 relationship. The problem is it's quite different when it's 11 and 28...
 

blu

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So basically, France doesn't have a statutory rape law, so he is charged for having sex with a minor, but not punished for rape because it doesn't fit the legal definition of rape they have.
Am I understanding right?
Seems so.
 

tonysidaway

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I'm pretty sute it varies between 14 and 17 from state to state here in the U.S. too, but I'm not sure if there's a federal law that overrides that, or if every state has a range (like 16, but only consent if the other person is 3 years older or less, for example). Never was something I had to take into account, lol.

The federal age of consent tends to come into play in interstate commerce or travel (so there is a federal law targetting opportunists who take a minor over the border to a state where it would be legal to have sex with them).

A lot of legislatures have addressed the problem of older people abusing a position of trust or power by the kind of age-gap test you describe, or specifically outlawing pupil-teacher sexual relations and the like, or both.
 
Feb 21, 2007
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I'm pretty sute it varies between 14 and 17 from state to state here in the U.S. too, but I'm not sure if there's a federal law that overrides that, or if every state has a range (like 16, but only consent if the other person is 3 years older or less, for example). Never was something I had to take into account, lol.


Nope. 16 is the lowest age of consent in any state
 

Koren

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So apparently the age of consent is irrelevant?
Not really... You'll face jail time (thanks for that), since there can't be a consent. Over this age, it needs to be a relationship without consent to be a crime.

The problem is partly the wording/classification (should be a crime, I'd say), and partly that the base penalty is probably too low in such a case.
 

turmoil

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Outdated rape laws are a piece of shit.

Here in Argentina until ~1990 the criminal code defined rape only as forced vaginal penetration, so oral/anal rape was just abuse on the eyes of the law.
 

Amibguous Cad

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That article is... really misleading, in the effort to be more sensational. He still got jail time, under what is effectively the French version of statutory rape. The French court did not rule that the sex was consensual; they ruled that their rape statute did not apply because it requires rape to involve violent force in addition to being nonconsensual.

The real story here isn't pedophilia, but laws that require rapes to be "forcible" in order to be prosecuted. It's a requirement of the common law definition of rape, and it's the way rape was defined for most of American history. Most states have removed that requirement from their lawbooks, but not all of them. Fifteen minutes of googling didn't give me an exact count, but I'd guess ~10 states still have this one on the books (a whole lot of them also only count men raping women as rape, but that's for another post - rape laws in general are horrendously anachronistic). Off the top of my head, the Texas Penal Code requires violence or threat of violence for it to count as rape. It's not just socially conservative states, though - New York does, too, at least for first degree rape (second and third degree rapes are are variations on statutory rape, so if someone was blackmailed into having sex with someone they wouldn't count under the statute). California's law requires it, too, though date rape and statutory rape are also included under the statute. Also, you can't rape your spouse in California, because patriarchy.

Case law will have moderated much of that, and juries are even less likely to follow it, but that's the law as written.

So, in other words, there are a lot of jurisdictions - not just France or Afghanistan - where this would be the exact decision, including some US states. Thankfully, in many of these circumstances being unable to prove force still means you can hit them with a lesser charge - like statutory rape, or sexual assault, or what have you - but it's still a pretty shitty system.

Anyway, modern rape laws are bullshit and I hope incidents like this lead to reform on a pretty massive scale.

Nope. 16 is the lowest age of consent in any state

If you're heterosexual.

(Yes, several states have higher ages of consent for gays than straights. Have I mentioned that rape laws are horrendously outdated?)
 

Valhelm

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go fuck yourself go fuck yourself go fuck yourself

An 11-year-old child cannot make informed decisions about sex and this kind of abuse will fuck them up permanently.
 
Feb 21, 2007
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If you're heterosexual.

(Yes, several states have higher ages of consent for gays than straights. Have I mentioned that rape laws are horrendously outdated?)

I'll admit I had no idea homosexuals had a higher age of consent in the US. Thats horrible but at least its not illegal like some evangelicals would like it to be. They need to be the same
 

Aske

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Jul 25, 2006
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Sexual abuse IS violence whether they hit the child during it or not.

Absolutely right. On top of that, many victims shut down and just try to survive. Some physically involve themselves in the act in order to get the ordeal over with faster and safer.

The nature of the most efficacious punishments for criminals who use force, manipulation, threats etc. to engage in non-consensual sex is for researchers to determine, but there's no qualitative difference between a sexual assault with or without punches. That's a profound and insidious misperception that most people who haven't had experiences with these crimes often instinctually believe; just another facet of rape culture that needs to be addressed.