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[RustyNails]

Rumi film will challenge Muslim stereotypes, says Gladiator writer

An Oscar-winning screenwriter has agreed to work on a biopic about the 13th-century poet Jalaluddin al-Rumi.

David Franzoni, who wrote the script for the 2000 blockbuster Gladiator, and Stephen Joel Brown, a producer on the Rumi film, said they wanted to challenge the stereotypical portrayal of Muslim characters in western cinema by charting the life of the great Sufi scholar.

“He’s like a Shakespeare,” Franzoni said. “He’s a character who has enormous talent and worth to his society and his people, and obviously resonates today. Those people are always worth exploring.”

Rumi’s spiritual and mystical epics, the Masnavi and the Divan, are widely considered among the best poetry ever written and have been translated into numerous languages. The Sufi teacher, who fled in his youth from his birthplace in present-day Afghanistan during the Mongol invasion, travelled through Baghdad, Mecca and Damascus with his family as a refugee before settling in Konya, in modern-day Turkey, where he died in old age.

Rumi’s encounter with the enigmatic mystic Shams of Tabriz, believed to have occurred in 1244, altered the course of his life. After Shams’s mysterious disappearance, an aggrieved Rumi wrote much of the love poetry that he is widely known for in the west – couplets that endure in pocketbook versions of his writings, which have made him the bestselling poet in the US.

Franzoni and Brown said they would like Leonardo DiCaprio to play Rumi, and Robert Downey Jr to star as Shams of Tabriz, though they said it was too early to begin casting. “This is the level of casting that we’re talking about,” said Brown, chief executive of Y Productions, who was also a producer on other hit films such as Se7en, The Fugitive and the Devil’s Advocate. The movie will be co-produced by Y Productions and Es Film.

A key challenge will be trying to build credible and identifiable profiles of Rumi and Shams from a considerable body of mythology. Even the basic facts of their lives are in dispute. Revered Islamic figures in popular discourse tend to be mythologised as saints rather than flawed characters, with their achievements embellished and their flaws papered over.

“We’re trying to invent and resurrect a character at the same time because there is so much missing in the shadow of history, and some of it is idealised so you have to go back and find the human being who became a saint, because we can’t write about a saint,” said Franzoni.

Shams’s character is also complicated to portray. While those working on the film do not see him as a villain, they do view him as a chaotic influence who distracted Rumi from his teachings and family. The ambiguities could allow writers and producers greater artistic licence, and they hope the intellectual arm-wrestling of the two key figures in the story will make for compelling viewing. “The greatness of Rumi, so much of it came out of that unpredictability and being challenged,” said Franzoni.

Franzoni said the film would probably include a prologue of Rumi’s flight from his birthplace, a situation he said had parallels with modern times. The Mongol invasions bore some semblance to the rampage of extremists in the Middle East today, and the ensuing flight of civilians, he said.

The film will focus on Rumi’s teachings as well as his encounter with Shams, while giving prominence to Kimya, the poet’s outspoken daughter who some scholars believe may have married Shams.

Franzoni and Brown said the main reason they wanted to make the movie was to introduce Rumi’s life story to the millennial generation that so loved Rumi’s poetry. Franzoni said he hoped the audience would be able to identify with the poet. “What’s fascinating is where did this all come from? It’s the 21st century and we’re rolling in it and embracing it. If we position ourselves carefully, [we can say] now we’re going to tell you where something you love came from,” he said.

“I think it’s obvious why people love his poetry. There’s a line about Lawrence of Arabia when they ask him why he likes the desert, and he says ‘because it’s clean’. There’s something profoundly ‘gettable’ about Rumi. You get it. And not only do you get it but it involves you.”

They want Leo for the role of Rumi and RDJ for the role of enigmatic mentor Shams. There's lot to be said about Shams but needless to say he was a mystical person and one day he just disappeared never to be found again.

There's already accusations of whitewashing, as Rumi was from Central Asia (Uzbek region) and Shams was Persian.

If Leonardo DiCaprio plays Persian poet Rumi, I won't be surprised - whitewashing is an old Hollywood habit

In the strange world of Hollywood whitewashing, it somehow becomes appropriate to cast Angelina Jolie as Mariane Pearl, Johnny Depp as Tonto, Elizabeth Taylor as Cleopatra and John Wayne as Genghis Khan, to name a few. And let’s not forget that Disney decided to cast Jack Gyllenhaal to portray the lead Persian Prince by slapping a spray tan on him - because there certainly aren’t enough Iranian actors in America. Meanwhile, Iranian actors are playing Pakistani terrorists on shows like Homeland. When Hollywood wants a terrorist to play a role, they can find actors of colour in abundance, but for more influential parts it suddenly become difficult – even impossible - to find them.

And that’s not the only way in which racial stereotypes affect prominent actors. Yesterday Kerry Washington said in an interview with Aziz Ansari that she was fired from two TV series before Scandal because the directors wanted her to be more “urban” and that she wasn’t “hood” enough. And last year the new author of James Bond, Anthony Horowitz, sparked a social media outcry when he said that Idris Elba was "too street" and “a bit too rough” to play Bond. Horowitz later apologised for his “clumsy” remarks but the message is clear: if you’re black, we expect you to be some kind of walking caricature from the ghetto.

The issue here is that whitewashing history tells untrue or sanitised stories about personal struggles, and placing a white actor into a story that does not belong to them eliminates important issues. When fictional characters are casted, there's no historical or cultural significance to the given roles - as in the case of black Hermione in the new Harry Potter production. But the casting choices, as we saw with on-screen Lavender Brown, speak volumes.

There are no excuses for whitewashing and race-bending in films. Simply claiming that talent and personality was prioritised over physical appearance is not a justification; it’s difficult to believe that there were no actors of colour who were able to play a character of even the most niche nationality. For this reason, I hope Leonardo DiCaprio doesn’t take up the offer of playing Rumi. He’d be depriving someone who could tell a much more truthful story – and perpetuating the Hollywood habit of a lifetime.

 

[HStallion]

I was going to mention upon seeing the thread title that RDJ and Leo seem like very odd choices despite their talent but seems OP already had me covered. Well I mean I guess it could be a good movie but it might be haunted by cries of white washing before the first trailer comes out if those two are the leads.

 

[iuxion]

Just no.

 

[orochi91]

There's already accusations of whitewashing, as Rumi was from Central Asia (Uzbek region) and Shams was Persian.

Yea...

A part of me doesn't want to support the inevitable white-washing that will occur, but on the other-hand, I do want to see how they will handle Muslims in the film:

they wanted to challenge the stereotypical portrayal of Muslim characters in western cinema by charting the life of the great Sufi scholar.

There will be some seriously great talent behind this project if Leo and RDJ sign on.

 

[strafer]

Don't do it Leo. You're better than this.

 

[HStallion]

Yea...

A part of me doesn't want to support the inevitable white-washing that will occur, but on the other-hand, I do want to see how they will handle Muslims in the film:


There will be some seriously great talent behind this project if Leo and RDJ sign on.

Wouldn't white washing ancient Muslim's kind of mean they're aren't handling the depiction of Muslims in the best manner?

 

[orochi91]

Wouldn't white washing ancient Muslim's kind of mean they're aren't handling the depiction of Muslims in the best manner?

Precisely, which is why I'm torn on this.

I can't even imagine how Leo or RDJ will pull off authentic performances that would do justice to those characters, in that point in time. Especially if they try to speak Persian or any other Central Asian language/dialect.

I commend the writers for wanting to portray a non-stereotypical Muslims, but they'd be better off hiring actual Iranian/Central Asian actors.

Iranian cinema has garnered international fame, specifically their art films. It shouldn't be too difficult to hire some capable/suitable actors from there.

 

[ZiZ]

I seriously doubt that they will cast middle eastern actors as leads.
Unfortunately there are very few middle eastern actors in Hollywood.

But I hope this goes through, I would like to see a movie where Arabs and other middle easterns are portrayed positivly.

 

[The Artisan]

or nah, or nah

 

[George Oscar Bluth II]

How about look at some Iranian actors. I bet there are loads in LA already.

 

[Glass Rebel]

Cast Rami Malek as Rumi and his brother Sami as Shams and just roll with it.

 

[The Illiterati]

Here's news for these guys....this film ain't gonna get made with that talent behind it.

 

[besada]

I'd love a good Rumi biopic, as he's one of my favorite poets, but this doesn't seem like it's the one I want.

 

[tearsintherain]

Why is everyone against RDJ, is it because he is black?

 

[18-Volt]

Rumi wasn't an Arab or from a semitic race, he was Sarmatian, white natives of Uzbekistan, nothing wrong for an Italian actor to play him, most of Northern Persians are white, even blonde. Sarmatians today are basically extinct or dissolved race so finding an actor of this race to play his role could be impossible. So "whitewashing" term shouldn't be applied to this.

But this movie has to be made and A-list actors have to star in it. Why? Because of rights of LGBT muslims. Rumi was gay muslim in medieval times and told his love in his poems. Telling his life in a Hollywood movie could be the thing that can change minds about LGBT in muslim lands, especially his home country, Iran.

This movie has to be made and Leo has to star in it. It's that important.

 

[Parham]

Telling his life in a Hollywood movie could be the thing that can change minds about LGBT in muslim lands, especially his home country, Iran.

This movie has to be made and Leo has to star in it. It's that important.

Poe's law in full effect here.

Edit: In case you're being serious, claiming the movie will change how people in Iran treat LGBT members is a huge overstatement. As someone who has been to Iran, and has many family members living there, I can confidently tell you there are significant institutional, religious, and cultural problems at the foundation of Iran affecting gender and LGBT discrimination. A western movie, much less one starring a white actor, isn't going to change that.

 

[KmA]

Rumi wasn't an Arab or from a semitic race, he was Sarmatian, white natives of Uzbekistan, nothing wrong for an Italian actor to play him, most of Northern Persians are white, even blonde. Sarmatians today are basically extinct or dissolved race so finding an actor of this race to play his role could be impossible. So "whitewashing" term shouldn't be applied to this.

But this movie has to be made and A-list actors have to star in it. Why? Because of rights of LGBT muslims. Rumi was gay muslim in medieval times and told his love in his poems. Telling his life in a Hollywood movie could be the thing that can change minds about LGBT in muslim lands, especially his home country, Iran.

This movie has to be made and Leo has to star in it. It's that important.

... I literally don't even know where to start.

 

[RustyNails]

Rumi wasn't an Arab or from a semitic race, he was Sarmatian, white natives of Uzbekistan, nothing wrong for an Italian actor to play him, most of Northern Persians are white, even blonde. Sarmatians today are basically extinct or dissolved race so finding an actor of this race to play his role could be impossible. So "whitewashing" term shouldn't be applied to this.

But this movie has to be made and A-list actors have to star in it. Why? Because of rights of LGBT muslims. Rumi was gay muslim in medieval times and told his love in his poems. Telling his life in a Hollywood movie could be the thing that can change minds about LGBT in muslim lands, especially his home country, Iran.

This movie has to be made and Leo has to star in it. It's that important.

There's zero evidence that Rumi and Shams were lovers in fact it's assumed Rumi's daughter was married to Shams. There are no records of such either. Rumi was also critical of homosexuality, IIRC. The "love" Rumi speaks of (maybe besada can correct me) is not carnal love, but on completely higher plane of orbit free from humanly wants. He speaks of the same love for prophet Muhammad and God as well.

 

[18-Volt]

There's zero evidence that Rumi and Shams were lovers in fact it's assumed Rumi's daughter was married to Shams. There are no records of such either. Rumi was also critical of homosexuality, IIRC. The "love" Rumi speaks of (maybe besada can correct me) is not carnal love, but on completely higher plane of orbit free from humanly wants. He speaks of the same love for prophet Muhammad and God as well.

Yes, there are zero evidence, it's just a theory by Rumi historians, but open homosexuality was common during that times and LGBT people weren't antagonized, especially in Iran and Anatolia. Male to male sexual intercourses in Sufi dargahs (sufi schools) in Seljuq Anatolia were also common. It wouldn't be surprising if he was.

 

[see5harp]

They want to break down Muslim stereotypes? By casting Leo? Fuck that shit.

 

[Shaanyboi]

Wouldn't white washing ancient Muslim's kind of mean they're aren't handling the depiction of Muslims in the best manner?

Rather they need to whitewash them to presumably make these characters "palatable".

Fuck this... How can you be so well-intentioned and yet be so completely ignorant at the same time?

 

[iuxion]

Telling his life in a Hollywood movie could be the thing that can change minds about LGBT in muslim lands, especially his home country, Iran.

This movie has to be made and Leo has to star in it. It's that important.

Right, a movie starring The Wolf of Wall Street and Iron Man is going to change the minds of the Iranian people. Gotcha.

 

[lightskintwin]

Rather they need to whitewash them to presumably make these characters "palatable".

Fuck this... How can you be so well-intentioned and yet be so completely ignorant at the same time?

Because that's how Hollywood works and has always worked?

 

[HStallion]

Because that's how Hollywood works and has always worked?

And why can't things change for the better? I hate the,"Well its always been done that way" defense.

 

[sphagnum]

What's funny is that a lot of Persians make a claim to being white, but this would still be whitewashing because it's a different sort of white.

Is it so hard to cast people of Persian descent? Or at least some kind of Iranian descent.

 

[harSon]

Continuing the Hollywood tradition of Muslims only being good when they're white

 

[HStallion]

What's funny is that a lot of Persians make a claim to being white, but this would still be whitewashing because it's a different sort of white.

Is it so hard to cast people of Persian descent? Or at least some kind of Iranian descent.

You obviously haven't seen the Prince of Persia movie.

 

[lightskintwin]

And why can't things change for the better? I hate the,"Well its always been done that way" defense.

You still see the same symptoms because nobody is addressing the problem and that's Hollywood has and always been a white elitist industry whose core business is creating "universal" stories with white people as the default. Now I'm not saying they have to change, because i understand how they work and accept it for what it is. Change has to come from within, and I don't see that happening anytime soon.

 

[18-Volt]

Right, a movie starring The Wolf of Wall Street and Iron Man is going to change the minds of the Iranian people. Gotcha.

Well, their reaction to Argo and 300 suggests they're following Hollywood pretty closely, so why not? I wish there is someone better than Leo but that guy really nails doing biographies, J Edgar proves that.

Turkish Mevlana Foundation have been asking Hollywood studios to make a true Rumi movie since 1950's. Last time they did so, they wanted Daniel Day Lewis to play Rumi. Another biography master.

What's funny is that a lot of Persians make a claim to being white, but this would still be whitewashing because it's a different sort of white.

Is it so hard to cast people of Persian descent? Or at least some kind of Iranian descent.

Iran means "Land of Aryans", Aryan means pure. Race is a sensitive issue for them. Never call an Iranian person that they are not white. I know many Persian people that would be crazy happy if Persians are depicted in movies as Nordic blondes.

 

[lightskintwin]

Iran means "Land of Aryans", Aryan means pure. Race is a sensitive issue for them. Never call an Iranian person that they are not white. I know many Persian people that would be crazy happy if Persians are depicted in movies as Nordic blondes.

Why is that?

 

[besada]

The "love" Rumi speaks of (maybe besada can correct me) is not carnal love, but on completely higher plane of orbit free from humanly wants. He speaks of the same love for prophet Muhammad and God as well.

Yes, Rumi is talking about the oneness of God, the spiritual union of all. Rumi wasn't far off from Buddhist thought, in that he believed we were all one, all a part of God, and therefore there could be no division between us that wasn't false. It's the love one feels for oneself and for God that Rumi wanted us to feel.

Rumi is one of the most beautiful, humanistic poets of any era.

This World Which Is Made of Our Love for Emptiness

Praise to the emptiness that blanks out existence. Existence:
This place made from our love for that emptiness!

Yet somehow comes emptiness,
this existence goes.

Praise to that happening, over and over!
For years I pulled my own existence out of emptiness.

Then one swoop, one swing of the arm,
that work is over.

Free of who I was, free of presence, free of dangerous fear, hope,
free of mountainous wanting.

The here-and-now mountain is a tiny piece of a piece of straw
blown off into emptiness.

These words I'm saying so much begin to lose meaning:
Existence, emptiness, mountain, straw:

Words and what they try to say swept
out the window, down the slant of the roof.

Our death is our wedding with eternity.
What is the secret? "God is One."
The sunlight splits when entering the windows of the house.
This multiplicity exists in the cluster of grapes;
It is not in the juice made from the grapes.
For he who is living in the Light of God,
The death of the carnal soul is a blessing.
Regarding him, say neither bad nor good,
For he is gone beyond the good and the bad.
Fix your eyes on God and do not talk about what is invisible,
So that he may place another look in your eyes.
It is in the vision of the physical eyes
That no invisible or secret thing exists.
But when the eye is turned toward the Light of God
What thing could remain hidden under such a Light?
Although all lights emanate from the Divine Light
Don't call all these lights "the Light of God";
It is the eternal light which is the Light of God,
The ephemeral light is an attribute of the body and the flesh.
...Oh God who gives the grace of vision!
The bird of vision is flying towards You with the wings of desire.
-- Mystic Odes 833

 

[sphagnum]

Iran means "Land of Aryans", Aryan means pure. Race is a sensitive issue for them. Never call an Iranian person that they are not white. I know many Persian people that would be crazy happy if Persians are depicted in movies as Nordic blondes.

I'm aware. I just meant that they're a "different" white in the sense that the Irish and Italians once were. They're "ethnic whites" until the "main whites" (Europeans) decide to accept them, since whiteness is a social construct that relies on power dynamics.

It's ironic though that Iranians are actually legit more related to the original Aryans (before the Nazis screwed up the word) than the rightists who like to use that word.

 

[sphagnum]

Why is that?

Iranians are an Indo-European people, which is a linguistic term but often correlates to an ethnic element as well. The Proto-Indo-Europeans (formerly called "Aryans", specifically the Yamna people in the Pontic steppe) were a group of pastoral nomads from the 4th millennium BC (I believe, might have been 5th) who eventually spread out to conquer Europe, Anatolia, Central Asia, and northern India. They were darker skinned than current Europeans (confirmed by genetic studies) but still had traits that would lead to diversity in hair and eye color, which is why you can find redheaded and blonde people in Central Asia. The eastern branch, the Indo-Iranians, who derived (I believe) from the Afanasevo culture eventually moved southwards where they split into the Iranians and the Indo-Aryans (the only group that we still use the term for in a historic sense). So many Iranians get annoyed when they are lumped together with non-PIE people like Arabs and take pride in their ancient Aryan (in the actual sense of the word) heritage.

Since the Europeans conquered the globe in the past couple centuries, this also gives some a way to feel superior over other Middle Eastern groups since they can claim to be on the "winning team".

 

[Stinkles]

I agree with others, want to see more big budget Arabic/Middle Eastern historical epics, but not whitewashed - unless (Hollywood fiscal reality being what it is) the action is seen from the POV of an outsider.

 

[Rentahamster]

they wanted to challenge the stereotypical portrayal of Muslim characters in western cinema by charting the life of the great Sufi scholar.

Cool.

Franzoni and Brown said they would like Leonardo DiCaprio to play Rumi, and Robert Downey Jr to star as Shams of Tabriz

Wut?

 

[George Oscar Bluth II]

I bet Ben Kingsley is gonna be in this. He's played an Iranian guy like 3 times now.

Hollywood keep forgetting Shaun Toub exists.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Joel Edgerton is available and he can play ethnic.

 

[Imperfected]

Maybe you could find two different actors and not halfway bankrupt your production trying to afford them? I don't know, just a thought.

I mean, I know Leo in particular takes lower paychecks when he's baiting for Oscars, but he's got to be less hungry now, right?

 

[lightskintwin]

Iranians are an Indo-European people, which is a linguistic term but often correlates to an ethnic element as well. The Proto-Indo-Europeans (formerly called "Aryans", specifically the Yamna people in the Pontic steppe) were a group of pastoral nomads from the 4th millennium BC (I believe, might have been 5th) who eventually spread out to conquer Europe, Anatolia, Central Asia, and northern India. They were darker skinned than current Europeans (confirmed by genetic studies) but still had traits that would lead to diversity in hair and eye color, which is why you can find redheaded and blonde people in Central Asia. The eastern branch, the Indo-Iranians, who derived (I believe) from the Afanasevo culture eventually moved southwards where they split into the Iranians and the Indo-Aryans (the only group that we still use the term for in a historic sense). So many Iranians get annoyed when they are lumped together with non-PIE people like Arabs and take pride in their ancient Aryan (in the actual sense of the word) heritage.

Since the Europeans conquered the globe in the past couple centuries, this also gives some a way to feel superior over other Middle Eastern groups since they can claim to be on the "winning team".

Thank you for explaining and that last part makes even more sense.

 

[RustyNails]

Joel Edgerton is available and he can play ethnic.

Is Idris Elba available or is he still too street?

 

[18-Volt]

Why is that?

Schism. Arabs and other semitic people are natural nemesis of Persian people, because of whole Shia/Sunni thing. They don't like to be identified as "Middle Eastern".

Also they are really proud people. They always brag about how their nation once was the greatest empire, how Persian people invented important stuff like glasses, wine or ice cream...

I agree with others, want to see more big budget Arabic/Middle Eastern historical epics, but not whitewashed - unless (Hollywood fiscal reality being what it is) the action is seen from the POV of an outsider.

The thing is, Turkey and Iran have been pushing for a Hollywood Rumi movie for years and both nations wanted a big name Hollywood actor to play Rumi. Doing so would please both audiences, most important two markets for such movie.

This is not the first Hollywood movie Turkey has successfully campaigned. They actually had Hollywood to make a Troy movie with Trojans were the good guys and A-lister actors starred in it. Iran on the other hand, is still waiting for their Rostam, Omar Khayyam and Darius movies.

 

[andythinkpad]

I will be honest, this historical person doesn't sound like he is famous enough to get Leo/Kingdom of Heaven kind of movie budget.

 

[Heshinsi]

Cast Rami Malek as Rumi and his brother Sami as Shams and just roll with it.

As a person who's family come from the Middle East, I don't agree with simply putting people of other ethnicities to fill roles like this. If you're going to go ahead and use actors that aren't white, do the right thing and also go for the right ethnicity. If you're going to have a person of Egyptian background play a role that should go to a Persian, you might as keep Leo and RDJ.

 

[Messofanego]

WTF

Hollywood needs to stop its fetish for whitewashing. It's past ridiculous.

 

[Shambalakan]

I saw this in a newspaper!

 

[HStallion]

I saw this in a newspaper!

Leonardo of Arabia.

 

[see5harp]

I saw this in a newspaper!

Holy shit!! Leonardo can probably play confucious next.

 

[harSon]

What Hollywood never gets is that even if some ethnic groups within the Middle East are Caucasian, that their facial structures look COMPLETELY FUCKING DIFFERENT. I know quite a few fair skinned Middle Eastern people, and from a visual standpoint - it's obvious that they're not European white. You can't just bronzer tan up a white dude, slap on a beard and throw on some period piece clothes and call it day. It'll look ridiculous. It always looks ridiculous, and a huge reason why is societal perception of the phenotypic traits that should accompany that stuff.

 

[HStallion]

Holy shit!! Leonardo can probably play confucious next.

I'm hoping for Nina Simone myself.