MiyazakiHatesKojima
Banned
He's right on one thing though: He's no Hideo Kojima
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God of War’s director would love to see the game on the PC, but this decision is above his paygrade
- Thread starter CyberPanda
- Start date
- News
ResilientBanana
Member
Considering that All the major players are Going to be streaming now, Nothing will be truly exclusive it’s just whatever platform you’re going to be subscribing to.
MiyazakiHatesKojima
Banned
DeltaPolarBear
Member
If he really think his games would get wider distribution going third party, he is welcome to try. But historically that had not been the case for others. There are upsides in being 1st party that he would lose if he leaves.
He's right on one thing though: He's no Hideo Kojima
Definitely. Unlike Kojima, he has some talent.
MiyazakiHatesKojima
Banned
touche
DeltaPolarBear
Member
Look, I personally haven't owned a game console for some time and is gaming on PC for now. But I am realistic about how tough third party development can get. It isn't all flowers and roses. And 1st party can offer a secure working environment where you could ignore microtransactions, because your mission is to sell consoles and profit comes second.
Going 3rd party means profitability becomes the only concern, and the change can affect output.
Dontspeakforme
Banned
What a dolt. Do you know what context means?
The guy is referencing what Kojima did, and what he did was to plan a release for Windows, which is a Microsoft platform. Get over it.
Being able to get Windows for free is irrelevant.
Referencing my professional experience developing for Linux and Windows platforms is not irrelevant. You’re a fan, you’re not a developer and you have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about. You don’t even know what platform means.
The Mad Draklor
Member
Do you know what your original thesis is? Apparently, you have such a short memory that you can't even remember your own comments.
Er no. Your assertion was that PC is a "Microsoft" platform. And then, you moved the goalposts to how many people use Windows which is an entirely different point.
Ah, the old ad hominem. Too bad that (1) it's a fallacy and (2) it's not even true.
[X] Doubt
Appeal to Authority fallacy. I don't care what your "professional" experience is if I have the ability to play games on Linux even if those games are not made natively for the OS.
I love how you don't directly address any rebuttals. It's all ad hominems, moving the goalposts, and Appeals to Authority with absolutely no elaboration beyond your assertions. Too bad that your alleged salary cannot and will not substitute for making sound points.
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MeatSafeMurderer
Member
...except all the people that don't...
sid2vicious
Banned
Dude I been saying that for ages! But for Nintendo...
thelastword
Banned
When will people understand that PC wont necessarily make the game look like real life or even more bombastic. than it is..……...The game has to play on a PS4 and 750ti too.....The two people who own 2080ti's may not even use it for gaming either........Crysis is simply an anomaly...…….The other guy who has tried is Star Citizen, it's been in the pan for almost a decade......And by the time it comes out, Barlog's next console game will make it look like Pong...
Somebody asked Barlog if there is a chance of a PC version, of course he will say 'he'd love that, so as not to alienate them". but everybody knows that SWWS games go to no other platform......Only PC ports I'm seeing are from third party developed IP's Sony's funded..........to maximize the ROI.....(especially for the devs)...
Good guy Sony huh!
Somebody asked Barlog if there is a chance of a PC version, of course he will say 'he'd love that, so as not to alienate them". but everybody knows that SWWS games go to no other platform......Only PC ports I'm seeing are from third party developed IP's Sony's funded..........to maximize the ROI.....(especially for the devs)...
Good guy Sony huh!
Dontspeakforme
Banned
Morons don’t count.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
PS Now has been on PC for 3 years, and it includes God of War.
MiyazakiHatesKojima
Banned
Streaming based service.
MeatSafeMurderer
Member
Well they're all in the clear then, because morons find Linux too confusing and think you can only game on Windows.
thelastword
Banned
Can you change settings, play at 4k at 120fps, like you can do other PC games?
Dontspeakforme
Banned
Linux is actually simpler to use, administer, and maintain than Windows is. By orders of magnitude, actually. Shifting to .NET Core was a god send for my team because we can completely eliminate Windows from the deployment pipeline and containerization on windows is literally a hack job.
However, you use the right tools for the right job. Gaming on Linux is stupid. You're a moron if you game on Linux.
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StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
By the looks of it no. But how many PC gamers play games at 4k at 120 fps anyway? Probably none.
However, PS Now on PC currently allows 60 fps, which is what the PS4 version of God of War can't do.
How to Play PS4 Games on PC & Mac
Find out how you can easily play PS4 games on your PC or Mac using PS4 Remote Play and PlayStation Now.
www.techadvisor.co.uk
System Requirements
Your PC or Mac has to be running one of the following operating systems:
- Windows 8.1
- Windows 10 or later
- OS X Yosemite or later
- Resolution options: 360p, 540p, 720p
- Default resolution – 540p
- Frame rate: Standard (30fps), High (60fps)
- Default frame rate – Standard (30fps)
MeatSafeMurderer
Member
Use, administer and maintain? Lol no. Not if you're one of the 99.9%. Most people don't "administer and maintain" Windows. They turn their PC on and use it. Most people don't touch regedit or the command prompt. Most people don't even bother to uninstall the bloatware Windows 10 ships with. I'll give you this though. If you're part of the 0.1% who actually does bother removing the bloatware, killing Cortana, telemetry, auto-reboot for updates, re-enabling exclusive fullscreen, etc, then yeah, it might be a little more difficult...but even that is a one time thing (mostly)...
No. You don't have to be a moron to game on Linux, you're thinking of MacOS. There is nothing moronic about choosing to game on Linux. Nothing at all. Support for it is growing, slowly but surely, and performance in native games is, if anything, better than under Windows.
Dontspeakforme
Banned
You seem to be deluded into thinking this website is for academic debate. It's a video-game forum. I am not debating with you, I am making fun of you for talking about things you don't understand.
Have you ever developed a wrapper? I have. Wrappers don't change the platform the original implementation was developed for and the performance is never the same as a native solution.
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Kazza
Member
I think you just answered your own question. It seems so redundant hardware-wise to buy both PC and consoles nowadays, and it will become even more so next gen. Imagine if you already have a Ryzen CPU PC and then buy both Scarlett and PS5, which will also be Ryzen based machines with 95% of the same software as a PC. What a waste of money and resources. This wasn't always the case. Back in 1997 you could own the Saturn, N64, Playstation and a PC and have completely different hardware in each plus 50%+ unique games libraries (and third party games tended to vary greatly between platforms, as this DF Retro Duke Nukem comparison shows).
I'm going PC next gen and hope that Sony follows Xbox's lead and puts their games directly on PC. Even if they don't, it seems that streaming will become more and more a thing for them, so that will increasingly be an option too, even if not ideal. People who want a cheap and simple gaming box to put under their TV will still have a reason to buy a console, but at least the rest of us will be saved from having to buy the exact same hardware all over again just to play a handful of exculsives.
Dontspeakforme
Banned
Why is your standard the ignorant masses? Most people can't do basic arithmetic, so am I supposed to delude myself into thinking I'm a genius just because I took Calculus, Linear Algebra and Differential Equations in college? I'm not, lots of people can solve differential equations. You seem to think you're smart because you can use Linux, lots of people use Linux. It's nothing special.
MeatSafeMurderer
Member
They're the lowest common denominator...they struggle to "use" Windows and are actively fearful of trying Linux. I think you wildly overestimate the capability of the layman. Surely you've heard of the Dunning-Kruger effect? Well right now you're exhibiting its opposite, Imposter syndrome. Just as laymen often overestimate their abilities, you're downplaying your own.
BlackTron
Member
Pallas
Gold Member
As an owner of both consoles, I wouldn’t mind for their games to be on PC too.
I don’t know why some here thinks that having a particular console’s first party titles on PC would invalidate that console. Not everyone wants to game on a damn PC. I highly doubt Sony’s reign of dominance will crash and burn if they allowed them on PC and it’s certainly not why Xbox didn’t quite achieve what Sony did this year in terms of consoles.
I don’t know why some here thinks that having a particular console’s first party titles on PC would invalidate that console. Not everyone wants to game on a damn PC. I highly doubt Sony’s reign of dominance will crash and burn if they allowed them on PC and it’s certainly not why Xbox didn’t quite achieve what Sony did this year in terms of consoles.
DeltaPolarBear
Member
You simply don't understand; the whole POINT that Sony pay for 1st party games to be made, is to support the console. It is NOT to make a profit. Making a profit, if it does, is just a nice side effect of making a good game.
Making 1st party games run on PC wouldn't invalidate the console; it would invalidate the 1st party game. it would invalidate the money Sony spends in keeping the studios open and spending so much money on single player titles. It invalidates Sony intentionally not putting microtransactions on GoW or Horizon Zero Dawn.
1st party games are MARKETING tools. They exist to sell the console, and that is why they are allowed to be made with more care and at higher costs, while making less money. Because all that would be worth it if it means more people buy the console. That is why these games are made.
Yes, Playstation will still exist if 1st party games come out on PC; but Sony would simply stop funding them if that's the case, or making them the same as every other game in being for profit, microtransaction, lootbox, Pay To Win junk.
1st party games are only good because they NEED to be good, because they could only function as marketing tools if you love them. If they stop being marketing tools, then there is no reason to make them good anymore.
thelastword
Banned
Are you saying that PSNOW delivers higher framerates than the consoles? Do some research...…..The reason there's a 60fps option for GOW is because PRO has a 60fps option, pro also has a 30fps resolution mode.....By the looks of it no. But how many PC gamers play games at 4k at 120 fps anyway? Probably none.
However, PS Now on PC currently allows 60 fps, which is what the PS4 version of God of War can't do.
How to Play PS4 Games on PC & Mac
Find out how you can easily play PS4 games on your PC or Mac using PS4 Remote Play and PlayStation Now.
System Requirements
Your PC or Mac has to be running one of the following operating systems:
You’ll be able to select from the following resolution and frame rate options, depending on your Internet connection – for 720p/60fps, a minimum internet connection of 15Mb is required.
- Windows 8.1
- Windows 10 or later
- OS X Yosemite or later
You'll also be able to use the DualShock 4 controller, though this will have to be connected to your PC or Mac via micro USB.
- Resolution options: 360p, 540p, 720p
- Default resolution – 540p
- Frame rate: Standard (30fps), High (60fps)
- Default frame rate – Standard (30fps)
Smaller than Atom
Member
This means you are a terrible writer:
"I don’t expect it to release its first-party titles to it. In other words, PC gamers should not expect to get Horizon: Zero Dawn, God of War or Gran Turismo."
Here is a blatantly obvious point and if you dont gave the mental fortitude to figure it out, I'll tell you what I really mean.
That is BAD writing. None of what was said there is necessary.
I'm not a fan of how we gamers give credit to such poorly gotten info and topped off by poorly reporting it. Happens far too often.
"I don’t expect it to release its first-party titles to it. In other words, PC gamers should not expect to get Horizon: Zero Dawn, God of War or Gran Turismo."
Here is a blatantly obvious point and if you dont gave the mental fortitude to figure it out, I'll tell you what I really mean.
That is BAD writing. None of what was said there is necessary.
I'm not a fan of how we gamers give credit to such poorly gotten info and topped off by poorly reporting it. Happens far too often.
Pallas
Gold Member
It wouldn’t invalidate their first party support, their software sales would gain more support, more sales, a wider audience. They will still sell millions upon millions in hardware and software. Their first party studios would probably get a boon from it.
You can already stream some of their games on PC via PSNow, don’t be surprise if the ability to download them to PC like you could on the PS4 happens in the near future.
Finally let’s not pretend that Sony has never added mtx’s in their first party games. Them adding games on PC won’t ruin their first party studios, hyperbole much?
nikolino840
Member
Is not the same with vita
Microsoft continue to put games on Xbox
The only games PC only are Age of Empires and Flight Simulator
Xbox have full support by Microsoft
DeltaPolarBear
Member
The point here is that you are promising more money if Sony sell their games on PC. But Sony correctly calculated they they will make more money in the long run by forcing people to buy their console. Because the console isn't just for selling games; it is for them to get 30% rent from third party games and subscription fee from PS+. And both of these require as large an install base as possible.
You can't possibly compensate Sony for the lost profits from deceased hardware sales. The fact is you want the games on PC so badly is the 1st party games doing their job as intended; they want to push you into owning a consoles, if you don't own one already. And you obviously are tempted or you would not be so insistent on wanting to play.
If you want to play Sony's game, then play on their platform the way they wanted you to. That's their demand. They know they can get more money from you this way, and they are right.
thelastword
Banned
Hey guys don't go in on Barlog here.....He was just trying to remain civil and polite, even though the interviewer knows that GOW will never come to PC...…..
People really need to get an idea as to the differences between third parties and first parties......If a first party game flops, they could absorb it, but when a third party game flops, the studio can fold easily.....No first gen Sony game really flopped, DC made it's money back and even more through the expansion packs and dlc, 1886 drew even and that was the worse scenario for them, both of these games sold consoles for the graphics alone...…..It's a higher win and potential for win through a first party game...…..Then people forget aftermarket support......Ask EA and the devs how great it is to support Anthem after it went live, when it received mediocre sales and review feedback.....Ask them how fun and buoyed up they are to support/bug fix and keep producing content on all types of PC's and consoles, when inittal reception was already that bad, even a successful third party game is a headache to support across all these platforms, like we saw in the Witcher 3, months and years of trial and error patching on consoles and PC.....It's really not a bed of roses...
He worked at Crytal Dynamics on Tomb Raider, that game was on all platforms and it did not sell anywhere close to GOW......The successive TR games have only done worse in sales.....People always have the idea that, all platforms means more sales......That is not always correct.....Having to develop on more platforms spreads your team thin, the ambition of the game can be compromised, the budget is almost never enough, QA'ing across all these platforms is a nightmare...…..Some versions can be better than others, but then you don't want one version looking like pong and the other looking like a nextgen game.....watch Shadow of Modor on PS3, as what not to do......Having a game look that bad on a platform actually causes people not to purchase a game and can impact how games are seen from that developer or publisher.....People will steer clear and not buy....For third parties, they are not trying to sell hardware, they are trying to make a huge profit...…..They are the least likely to spend huge amounts of cash on game with all the production values and ambition that Sony stipulates for it's games, or they would never give the developer all the support and backing it deserves...…..I mean, if Kojima could get 70 Guerilla employees to work on Death Stranding, perhaps Sony was also instrumental in getting him many celebrity hookups, studio and motion capturing services, how much more do they go out to support their devs at SWWS then....
People really need to get an idea as to the differences between third parties and first parties......If a first party game flops, they could absorb it, but when a third party game flops, the studio can fold easily.....No first gen Sony game really flopped, DC made it's money back and even more through the expansion packs and dlc, 1886 drew even and that was the worse scenario for them, both of these games sold consoles for the graphics alone...…..It's a higher win and potential for win through a first party game...…..Then people forget aftermarket support......Ask EA and the devs how great it is to support Anthem after it went live, when it received mediocre sales and review feedback.....Ask them how fun and buoyed up they are to support/bug fix and keep producing content on all types of PC's and consoles, when inittal reception was already that bad, even a successful third party game is a headache to support across all these platforms, like we saw in the Witcher 3, months and years of trial and error patching on consoles and PC.....It's really not a bed of roses...
#Phonepunk#
Banned
it's an incredible game. i started playing it when i got my PS4 Pro. would be well received on PC.
but yeah a lot of these decisions are made by money men at the top, not really the creatives.
but yeah a lot of these decisions are made by money men at the top, not really the creatives.
TeddyShardik
Banned
If they announced such a thing they would no longer sell any significant amount of hardware.
A year-long wait seems annoying for that one game you were waiting forbut is it really worth spending like 400 bucks when you can just wait a bit and maybe get your backlog some attention?
I don't think so.
How many people are playing the hottest, newest Xbox games for a dollar on PC right now? People who never thought about buying an Xbox, that's who.
Bkdk
Member
Sony’s biggest exclusives are all going for the emotional linear campaign route, the upgrade that pc hardware brings will make a significant improvement as graphics/atmosphere/animation is the number 1 selling point. Not to mention modding community will make them even better by releasing free remastered edition every new hardware releases.
If Sony let their biggest exclusives on PC they will be killing their console almost instantly as gamers will be so spoiled by the pc version and never want to go back. Microsoft will be partying so hard when Sony commits suicide like that lmao.
If Sony let their biggest exclusives on PC they will be killing their console almost instantly as gamers will be so spoiled by the pc version and never want to go back. Microsoft will be partying so hard when Sony commits suicide like that lmao.
TheWanderingOgre
Member
The compromise would be too big.
Sure, first party console developers are limited by the consoles hardware but the resources they have to create amazing videogames is far greater than the ones they would have under a third party publisher budget.
Plus, developing for a closed, streamlined hardware is very underrated.
We need more exclusives, not less.
If handled in a healthy manner, competition stirs up passion and creativity resulting in higher highs and higher lows for every art and entertainment medium.
Dread the 'white label box' future.
Sure, first party console developers are limited by the consoles hardware but the resources they have to create amazing videogames is far greater than the ones they would have under a third party publisher budget.
Plus, developing for a closed, streamlined hardware is very underrated.
We need more exclusives, not less.
If handled in a healthy manner, competition stirs up passion and creativity resulting in higher highs and higher lows for every art and entertainment medium.
Dread the 'white label box' future.
Jtibh
Banned
I dont support console exclusives hitting pc at all.
Its not about that all of a sudden consoles have no valeu cuz why should we buy one when we can have the same game somewhere else.
To me console exclusives are there to showcase what these consoles are capable.
Could you imagine back than a ps4 equal to a 7600 card could display a game like god of war or horizon or death stranding or even part2?
Never.
If you take the barrier away that consoles are devs will be lazy will make every game tailored to pc and just dumbed down to consoles.
This way devs have to actualy make an effort invest a lot of work and come up with some crazy solutions from which they learn and apply that knowledge to future projects.
This is how the industry evolves.
Its not about that all of a sudden consoles have no valeu cuz why should we buy one when we can have the same game somewhere else.
To me console exclusives are there to showcase what these consoles are capable.
Could you imagine back than a ps4 equal to a 7600 card could display a game like god of war or horizon or death stranding or even part2?
Never.
If you take the barrier away that consoles are devs will be lazy will make every game tailored to pc and just dumbed down to consoles.
This way devs have to actualy make an effort invest a lot of work and come up with some crazy solutions from which they learn and apply that knowledge to future projects.
This is how the industry evolves.
FranXico
Member
Scalable game engines are not lazy, they are smart. And devs already make their game engines like this today, even when they only target one platform.
Don't underestimate the amount of work and creativity needed to write good portable code.
The Mad Draklor
Member
If you make bad points, then your argument is invalid. Fallacies do not substitute for making legit points. Sorry.
Moving the goalposts again, I see. If I can play a game on Linux even if it was "Windows-only", then PC is not a Microsoft platform even in the most pedantic sense. And the performance penalty currently tends to only be around 5% at best to 10% at worst.
What? You think that Proton and DXVK will not improve? The ACO compiler from Valve, for instance, reduced shader compiling times by 2/3 over LLVM. Or what will happen if more games are developed with the Vulkan API? The PC version of RDR2 will ship with Vulkan and if the results are similar to how Doom (2016) runs on Linux, the game could actually run better on Linux.
But that's irrelevant as that is not related to your original claim. "PC is a Microsoft platform" is a completely false statement and there's nothing that your so-called expertise or 6-figure salary can do anything about that.
I can easily see this happening in the future though especially with the advent of streaming nothing will truly be system exclusive anymore so you might as well make actual ports that will appeal to the PC crowd because PC Gaming is booming much more now than the PS3 days and it will only get bigger it would be utterly foolish to miss the boat.
PC is not a competitor to console. While the games overlap the overall audiences are quite different people.
People on console want physical discs, and simple plug and play gaming with acceptable frame rates and resolution.
People on PC want total freedom over their experience, customization galore, don't care about physical games, so on and so forth.
Even if every console exclusive were to come to PC it wouldn't devalue the console for the reasons I listed.
The Xbox One wasn't much effected by the fact that their games were on PC.
For the longest time on PC you had to deal with the Windows Store if you wanted Xbox exclusive titles, and the Xbox exclusive titles just weren't that appealing to a lot of people and barely anyone at all on PC wanted to deal with the Windows Store.
So Xbox wasn't losing sales because their games were on PC maybe a few people didn't buy an Xbox because of that but I doubt it would have made much of a big difference if they just kept their games on the Xbox and didn't put them on PC.
Fact of the matter is Microsoft was just lacking in appealing titles for their platform period on PC and on Xbox they just don't have the Sony first party appeal of titles which has to change if they want to succeed going forward.
That being said for the loss in hardware sales they easily make up in software sales and subscription services where the real money is made.
Microsoft really only now just got the infrastructure to appeal to both PC Gamers and console gamers, and people who will be playing in the cloud if xCloud is as good as I'm hearing it is.
So the fruits of this is only really going to show in 2020 and onwards not now.
Microsoft just needs to land in it's first party titles but their Games coming to Steam, their Windows Store and any store that will house them maybe even the Epic Store but they certainly won't be exclusive.
The Game Pass for PC and Console is brilliant for subscription services in fact I could even see GamePass just replacing Xbox Live at some point where instead of people just buying Xbox Live on Console they just end up springing for GamePass Ultimate.
With xCloud they can reach more people in terms of gaming, people who would have never bought a console to begin with anyway.
Their consoles will continue to sell for the reasons I've stated there is an audience for them even when PC Gaming is around and they buy third party games on the consoles where the real money is made.
Microsoft realized it made no sense alienating the PC Userbase because they don't compete with the Xbox, they also would only be buying exclusive titles on the Xbox anyway which wouldn't really benefit Microsoft all that much.
The reason why consoles have exclusives is to get you into their ecosystem but for someone on PC you have little interest in the ecosystem outside of a few first party titles and in Sony's case largely single player so these people wouldn't be investing in the PS ecosystem the way the exclusives are intended to intice them to. PC Gamers who buy Sony exclusives aren't buying PS Plus, they aren't buying third party titles on the consoles either where the real money is made.
On console the money is made from third party licenses and subscriptions first, exclusive games, and console sales are way down the line while profit can be made on console sales they are thin-margins not even close to what Sony/MS would make by making PC Ports.
In Sony's case it could actually be very beneficial to put their games on the PC platform in the future as it wouldn't really do much to their console sales if anything at all(When Xbox games went to PC, Xbox Gamers who love console for the reasons I stated weren't jumping ship to PC in fact I bet most jumped ship to PlayStation because the Xbox exclusives were just lacking not because they were going to PC it's just that Xbox doesn't have their own Horizon Zero Dawn, their own God of War, their own Spider-Man game they just don't have the games with the appeal you see for Sony's first party titles.
They sell more games, and if they make their own GamePass so they can not only sell a subscription service to console users but something that will appeal to the PC Users as well if done right it could make more money than PS Plus. (PSNow is a good start but needs heavy improvements)
It could also be great for a transition to a potential post-console future if you already have the infrastructure you can ween off the reliance on consoles so if they jut stop selling your not screwed.
PC is not a competitor to console. While the games overlap the overall audiences are quite different people.
People on console want physical discs, and simple plug and play gaming with acceptable frame rates and resolution.
People on PC want total freedom over their experience, customization galore, don't care about physical games, so on and so forth.
Even if every console exclusive were to come to PC it wouldn't devalue the console for the reasons I listed.
The Xbox One wasn't much effected by the fact that their games were on PC.
For the longest time on PC you had to deal with the Windows Store if you wanted Xbox exclusive titles, and the Xbox exclusive titles just weren't that appealing to a lot of people and barely anyone at all on PC wanted to deal with the Windows Store.
So Xbox wasn't losing sales because their games were on PC maybe a few people didn't buy an Xbox because of that but I doubt it would have made much of a big difference if they just kept their games on the Xbox and didn't put them on PC.
Fact of the matter is Microsoft was just lacking in appealing titles for their platform period on PC and on Xbox they just don't have the Sony first party appeal of titles which has to change if they want to succeed going forward.
That being said for the loss in hardware sales they easily make up in software sales and subscription services where the real money is made.
Microsoft really only now just got the infrastructure to appeal to both PC Gamers and console gamers, and people who will be playing in the cloud if xCloud is as good as I'm hearing it is.
So the fruits of this is only really going to show in 2020 and onwards not now.
Microsoft just needs to land in it's first party titles but their Games coming to Steam, their Windows Store and any store that will house them maybe even the Epic Store but they certainly won't be exclusive.
The Game Pass for PC and Console is brilliant for subscription services in fact I could even see GamePass just replacing Xbox Live at some point where instead of people just buying Xbox Live on Console they just end up springing for GamePass Ultimate.
With xCloud they can reach more people in terms of gaming, people who would have never bought a console to begin with anyway.
Their consoles will continue to sell for the reasons I've stated there is an audience for them even when PC Gaming is around and they buy third party games on the consoles where the real money is made.
Microsoft realized it made no sense alienating the PC Userbase because they don't compete with the Xbox, they also would only be buying exclusive titles on the Xbox anyway which wouldn't really benefit Microsoft all that much.
The reason why consoles have exclusives is to get you into their ecosystem but for someone on PC you have little interest in the ecosystem outside of a few first party titles and in Sony's case largely single player so these people wouldn't be investing in the PS ecosystem the way the exclusives are intended to intice them to. PC Gamers who buy Sony exclusives aren't buying PS Plus, they aren't buying third party titles on the consoles either where the real money is made.
On console the money is made from third party licenses and subscriptions first, exclusive games, and console sales are way down the line while profit can be made on console sales they are thin-margins not even close to what Sony/MS would make by making PC Ports.
In Sony's case it could actually be very beneficial to put their games on the PC platform in the future as it wouldn't really do much to their console sales if anything at all(When Xbox games went to PC, Xbox Gamers who love console for the reasons I stated weren't jumping ship to PC in fact I bet most jumped ship to PlayStation because the Xbox exclusives were just lacking not because they were going to PC it's just that Xbox doesn't have their own Horizon Zero Dawn, their own God of War, their own Spider-Man game they just don't have the games with the appeal you see for Sony's first party titles.
They sell more games, and if they make their own GamePass so they can not only sell a subscription service to console users but something that will appeal to the PC Users as well if done right it could make more money than PS Plus. (PSNow is a good start but needs heavy improvements)
It could also be great for a transition to a potential post-console future if you already have the infrastructure you can ween off the reliance on consoles so if they jut stop selling your not screwed.
MeatSafeMurderer
Member
Bro...I hate to break it to you...that was only true back when the hardware was proprietary or at the very least exotic. At their core the consoles today are not just equivalent to PC hardware...they are PC hardware. You can run Linux on the PS4 with graphics drivers...and you can play PC games on it. These games are already tailored to PC and "dumbed down" to consoles (as evidenced by the fact that base PS4 / Xbox One games don't immediately break on the Pro / X, I.E. they're not using any hardware specific hacks to get more out of the hardware). Aside from the OS and API support there's really nothing stopping todays console games running natively on PC. They're not running on some alien architecture, it's x86 with, for all intents and purposes, an off the shelf GPU.
Jtibh
Banned
No i understand.
I guess what i try to articulate is if it wouldnt be for console exclusives we would never see games like god of war on an ancient and lets face it even back than totaly outdated system. They would have just made subpar looking games that would look leaps and bounds better on pc from day one. All games would look like ps3 1.5.
They would never as they say code to the metal.
I know its a bad comparison but look at doom on switch. That would be the level of visual on ps4 and not what we see today.
Fuck man thats the best i can explain it what you want??? Lollol.
SmoothRunningGun
Member
If he doesn't understand why it isn't then it's good that it's above his pay grade.
They're not. There is no HSA PC hardware where primary memory controller is on GPU and it has so many ROPs.
Yes it's less exotic as it used to be. But not the same.
No.
Unless they were developed for fat PC APIs and multiple hardware configurations.
Yes there were a lot of early PS4 and XB games that were developed for DirectX9 layer (emulated on PS4) but right now it's not really the case.
There were also small studios developing games on PCs because it's cheaper, but currently devkits have comparable prices, no need to use PCs anymore.
That's a huge amount of code.
Nvidia driver has almost 100mb of executable code, it's a huge fat binary that hides all the real GPU performance from programmer under layers of abstractions.
On top of that you have DirectX12 which is also huge fat and not only hides how hardware behaves but also how AMD cards are different from Nvidia.
And there are more layers in various places.
PCs are totally ineffective as a gaming platform, they "win" only by brute force and lazy development, where people use ready-made abstracted components and engines instead of optimizing the performance.
And thats...bro...why PS4 exclusives have such a universal acclaim: the only games where people really care about performance, really care about looking absolute best and it pays off.
So far no game comes even close to Horizon Zero Dawn in graphics. One big robot in HZD has more poygons and animations than the whole visible screen area in Metro Exodus. And yet it runs even on basic PS4.
BTW, it doesn't mean that all these things cannot be used on PC: because of PS3 and XB360 we have multithreaded game engines on PC. Because of PS4 and XBOne we have PBR and GPGPU on PC.
PS5 and Scarlett will teach PC developers another set of new tricks. But until then - it's not gonna happen.
MeatSafeMurderer
Member
You realize that the PS4 and Xbox One both use drivers and APIs too right? That's why games which never got an enhancement patch even work on the enhanced consoles, which have different GPUs. They're not bare metal anymore, that argument is about a decade out of date. Sony's graphics API is proprietary and Microsoft quite literally uses DX12. In fact the Xbox One is running Windows 10. There's very little stopping Xbox One games running on PC as is and adding support for Sony's proprietary graphics API to NVIDIA and AMD's driver packages wouldn't be a big deal.
Much thinner than what you have on PC.
Not really, it's a slimmer version of DX12, that doesn't need to work on different hardware.
And yes, Sony's APIs even slimmer than that, actually just a small wrappers on top of memory writes.
Enhanced consoles have exactly the same hardware architecture.
Command buffer format is the same, CPU instructions are the same.
It's vastly different from PC, where you cannot even build your command buffer, at all, driver builds it for you.
MeatSafeMurderer
Member
And you just exposed your glaring ignorance. The entire point of hardware abstraction layers is that they are hardware agnostic. The driver is the hardware specific part of the chain, that sits between the hardware and the API.
In short, you're talking out of your ass.