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God Of War: Combat is still fast, No QTE, spirit of a classic fantasy adventure game

F4r0_Atak

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Jupp. Don't see Ragnarok happening in this one. But who knows? Maybe Ragnarok already happend and all the Gods are dead? :O

Man, I really can't wait to play this game. Wasn't that hyped for a game since Bloodborne.

I would doubt the gods are dead already... they haven't even revealed themselves to the world of men yet. Based on previous interviews, this game is set during a time where their gods walked among the mortals. If it was to happen, Ragnarok would have to be either the sequel or the last game of a possible trilogy.
 

hey_it's_that_dog

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Some of you need to play God Hand if you think games with a close over the shoulder camera can't have fast, responsive and in depth combat. Hell God Hand has more depth and nuance than all 3 mainline God of War games combined.
That's true about God Hand but it's already obvious GOW doesn't move like God Hand.
 

Harmen

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Kinda hard to imagine that, since it's a single-shot game.

Can't wait to play this.

It being single shot is more of a stylistic choice than indication for it's length to me. The medium allows for seamless cuts between cutscenes and gameplay (many modern games are doing this seamless transition) and no camera cuts are required during gameplay.
 

Lionel Richie

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Some of you need to play God Hand if you think games with a close over the shoulder camera can't have fast, responsive and in depth combat. Hell God Hand has more depth and nuance than all 3 mainline God of War games combined.

That's not a good comparison. God Hand is one of my favorite things ever, but that game was janky as fuck. And the things that made it work are hardly repeatable as what drives that game is the beautifully zany sense of style of a Clover/Platinum work, which is just not happening in a western developed game. Even then, your reason for optimism shouldn't be a flawed at the time over 10 year old game.
 

Floody

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Kinda disappointed at no QTEs, they were always so over the top in the GoW games that I can't help but love them. Do love that you control when the moments happen though, instead of it just being triggered by depleting x amount of the bosses health.
 

Jamaro85

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No checklists or waypoint indicators, not open world but linear with lots of room for exploration - sounds refreshing. Sounds like it will be a focused experience without tying you into a corridor and with [hopefully] worthwhile reward for thorough exploration.
 

MegaSackman

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Jupp. Don't see Ragnarok happening in this one. But who knows? Maybe Ragnarok already happend and all the Gods are dead? :O

Man, I really can't wait to play this game. Wasn't that hyped for a game since Bloodborne.

They said there are gods in this game. Also, the Serpent would be dead if Ragnarok already happened but again, gods confirmed by Cory in interviews.
 

CharminUltra

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I love Krato's Blades of Chaos and was not bored of them in the slightest, but I'm really liking what I'm seeing here anyway.
 

AAK

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GamesRadar mentions a demo, so was this game playable at E3? I was mostly following the EZA coverage and don't remember any impressions from a God of War session.
 

HStallion

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That's not a good comparison. God Hand is one of my favorite things ever, but that game was janky as fuck. And the things that made it work are hardly repeatable as what drives that game is the beautifully zany sense of style of a Clover/Platinum work, which is just not happening in a western developed game. Even then, your reason for optimism shouldn't be a flawed at the time over 10 year old game.

Maybe I'm optimistic because I trust the developers. I just pointed out to all the hyperbolic negative Nancys that a combat heavy game with a close over the shoulder camera can be great. Should I bring up Absolver as a more modern Western take on the idea?
 

hey_it's_that_dog

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Maybe I'm optimistic because I trust the developers. I just pointed out to all the hyperbolic negative Nancys that a combat heavy game with a close over the shoulder camera can be great. Should I bring up Absolver as a more modern Western take on the idea?

Has Absolver proven itself to be great?
 

Primethius

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I'm actually quite excited for over the shoulder combat because I'm hoping this game will actually have some depth as a result.

I really disliked GoW1/2 because of their simplistic, button-mashy combat. Hoping they really nail it here.
 

hey_it's_that_dog

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I'm actually quite excited for over the shoulder combat because I'm hoping this game will actually have some depth as a result.

I really disliked GoW1/2 because of their simplistic, button-mashy combat. Hoping they really nail it here.

The games with the deepest combat systems all use a free 3rd person camera, more akin to the original GOWs than what we're seeing here. Why would this new camera style lead to increased depth?
 

Primethius

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The games with the deepest combat systems all use a free 3rd person camera, more akin to the original GOWs than what we're seeing here. Why would this new camera style lead to increased depth?

Because I doubt the GoW team will ever come close to games that Platinum puts out, or the NG series or DMC when it comes to depth and satisfaction. They had more than 3 games so far and none of have close to hitting the mark.

This, I find it more likely that in the current Souls/Nioh climate, that a GoW game with an over the shoulder camera style will have more impactful and meaningful combat than if they tried to emulate their shoddy and button-mashy systems of games past.
 

Artdayne

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Has Absolver proven itself to be great?

Dragon's Dogma? For Honor?

For Honor has some issues specifically related to its multiplayer balance but some of the classes in particular play very fast and the animations are among the best in the industry.

The games with the deepest combat systems all use a free 3rd person camera, more akin to the original GOWs than what we're seeing here. Why would this new camera style lead to increased depth?

That's more just a relic of how action games were designed before the became 3D. It still works well, not disagreeing with that but it's ridiculous to think that an over the shoulder camera will restrict the ability to have a fun, complex combat system.
 
Because I doubt the GoW team will ever come close to games that Platinum puts out, or the NG series or DMC.

I find it more likely that in the current Souls/Nioh climate, that a GoW game with an over the shoulder camera style will have more impactful and meaningful combat than if they tried to emulate their shoddy and button-mashy systems of games past.
It most definitely still going to be button mashy going by the trailers. Looks like it's pretty much going to be like the old games from a different perspective, but with more seamlessly shifting between weapons
 

Primethius

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It most definitely still going to be button mashy going by the trailers. Looks like it's pretty much going to be like the old games from a different perspective, but with more seamlessly shifting between weapons

Definitely. But I think even these two trailers for the game make the combat look and feel more impactful than the series has ever had in the past.

Past GoW games for me had crazy highs in the setpieces but the actual moment to moment combat I could do without as it felt very basic and not at all satisfying. These trailers at least make the mashing look a bit more impactful, a bit more satisfying to do primarily due to the up and close camera angle, alongside with improvements to animation and the added weight to Kratos' movement.
 

hey_it's_that_dog

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The beta has been awesome and plays better than a lot of action and close combat heavy games of late.

Oh shit the beta started. Thanks for the reminder!

Dragon's Dogma? For Honor?

For Honor has some issues specifically related to its multiplayer balance but some of the classes in particular play very fast and the animations are among the best in the industry.



That's more just a relic of how action games were designed before the became 3D. It still works well, not disagreeing with that but it's ridiculous to think that an over the shoulder camera will restrict the ability to have a fun, complex combat system.

I didn't say it would restrict it. I said it wouldn't inherently lead to more depth. It could be equally deep. It could restrict movement more than previous GOW games, which might have a negative impact. They won't show real gameplay for some reason so I can only speculate based on snippets.
 

Manu

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Okay, CAD, I chuckled. You win this time.
 

SenjutsuSage

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This is very smart. I was certain I would never have interest in another God of War outside of seeing the graphics and tech. However, I definitely now want this game.
 

mcz117chief

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I wonder, since Balrog is back on, how much of his original script for the series will make it back into the 4th game and on. Kratos was supposed to travel to Nordic lands and then to Egypt to meet the other god slayers to prepare the world for the arrival of Jesus Christ whom they would go meet as the 3 wise men, at least that was the plan when God of War 2 was released. The story of the series is really cool and that is the main reason why I like the series.
 

HStallion

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I wonder, since Balrog is back on, how much of his original script for the series will make it back into the 4th game and on. Kratos was supposed to travel to Nordic lands and then to Egypt to meet the other god slayers to prepare the world for the arrival of Jesus Christ whom they would go meet as the 3 wise men, at least that was the plan when God of War 2 was released. The story of the series is really cool and that is the main reason why I like the series.

Jaffe's original vision was Kratos basically becoming death himself but I'm not sure if Barlog was on the same page as him when he took over in the second game.
 

mcz117chief

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Jaffe's original vision was Kratos basically becoming death himself but I'm not sure if Barlog was on the same page as him when he took over in the second game.

Yeah the 1st game was never supposed to have a sequel, that is why the story ends in current times where you can see military helicopters finding dead Kronos and modern infantry soldiers being under the influence of Kratos, but that kind of changed when they had to make a sequel.
 
Oh shit the beta started. Thanks for the reminder!



I didn't say it would restrict it. I said it wouldn't inherently lead to more depth. It could be equally deep. It could restrict movement more than previous GOW games, which might have a negative impact. They won't show real gameplay for some reason so I can only speculate based on snippets.
I feel like camera control will likely lead to more nuance since now you can direct your attacks more precisely. Not to mention the whole axe throwing and summoning, or how the trailer had the player shifting fluidly between three weapons in a single string of attacks (shield, fists, axe)
 

hey_it's_that_dog

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I feel like camera control will likely
lead to more nuance since now you can direct your attacks more precisely. Not to mention the whole axe throwing and summoning, or how the trailer had the player shifting fluidly between three weapons in a single string of attacks (shield, fists, axe)
Unless there's a system by which you're targeting specific body parts, I don't think nuanced camera control will amount to much. Kratos attacks may not be as sweeping as the blades of chaos but he still covers a significant area in front of himself.

Switching weapons will add depth if they manage to actually give them wildly different properties this time. GOW3 had weapon switching but aside from the cestus it was basically pointless from a tactical perspective. I can't remember but I assume Ascension also had realtime weapon switching. The diversity of weapons was similarly pointless in that game.
 
Unless there's a system by which you're targeting specific body parts, I don't think nuanced camera control will amount to much. Kratos attacks may not be as sweeping as the blades of chaos but he still covers a significant area in front of himself.

Switching weapons will add depth if they manage to actually give them wildly different properties this time. GOW3 had weapon switching but aside from the cestus it was basically pointless from a tactical perspective. I can't remember but I assume Ascension also had realtime weapon switching. The diversity of weapons was similarly pointless in that game.
Well, the anecdote about throwing the axe behind enemies and then hitting them in the back by summoning it, and the precision of throwing the axe to pin an enemy to a wall while you continue to fight with your fists and other weapons seems to indicate a level of precision in the combat that wasn't really done in the past games
 

Loudninja

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A great interview with glixel some story details reveal but I let you read them.
Kratos, though older and wiser than we've seen him before, is still a formidable warrior – now wielding a powerful battle axe called Leviathan, forged by the dwarven blacksmiths that also fashioned Thor's hammer, Mjolnir. Atreus, born into this new world is, to some extent, the brains of the operation. While he struggles to defend himself (although he can be triggered to attack targets with a bow and arrow using a dedicated button on the controller) his core skill is interpreting the new world for his father, serving as translator and guide.

Our game is so much bigger than anything we've ever done. God of War 2 was big – and I just kept adding stuff to the point that it had the biggest footprint you could imagine because we wanted to execute on the vision. This one is so much bigger, but I'm just as ignorant.
http://www.glixel.com/interviews/it...-of-war-creative-director-cory-barlog-w488948
 

hey_it's_that_dog

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Well, the anecdote about throwing the axe behind enemies and then hitting them in the back by summoning it, and the precision of throwing the axe to pin an enemy to a wall while you continue to fight with your fists and other weapons seems to indicate a level of precision in the combat that wasn't really done in the past games
If throwing the axe requires precision and does a lot of damage that will definitely be a fun addition.
 

PLASTICA-MAN

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Well, the anecdote about throwing the axe behind enemies and then hitting them in the back by summoning it, and the precision of throwing the axe to pin an enemy to a wall while you continue to fight with your fists and other weapons seems to indicate a level of precision in the combat that wasn't really done in the past games

In previous posts I mentioned that journalists who saw last year behind closed door demo, talked about how there are some objects and items in unreachable places and by throwing the axe at them and calling it back you can recover them. You can also create bridges by cutting down giant plants (from the leaked plant artworks)
 

Endo Punk

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Wish at some point the original God of War gets remade. I'd really love to see it with next gen visuals and free form camera. The story and pacing is just masterful, seeing Kratos become the character he is was sublime and really well done.

"Ares! Defeat my enemies and my life, is yours" Love it. It was absolutely worth purchasing another PS2 because my fat original couldn't properly read dual layered discs.
 

Loudninja

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Wish at some point the original God of War gets remade. I'd really love to see it with next gen visuals and free form camera. The story and pacing is just masterful, seeing Kratos become the character he is was sublime and really well done.

"Ares! Defeat my enemies and my life, is yours" Love it. It was absolutely worth purchasing another PS2 because my fat original couldn't properly read dual layered discs.
Actually this would be cool to see.
 

Lionel Richie

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Maybe I'm optimistic because I trust the developers. I just pointed out to all the hyperbolic negative Nancys that a combat heavy game with a close over the shoulder camera can be great. Should I bring up Absolver as a more modern Western take on the idea?

I didn't know what Absolver was, so I can't judge here more than the gameplay vid that I saw but it looked like it's based around one on one combat or stuff like For Honor where it's not 100% one on one but lol come on it is. Is that correct? If it is, it's a terrible example in this case because God of War isn't about that, it's about killing a fuckton of enemies. Does it have combos like the DMC games or Bayonetta where you can crowd control like a pro? If it does, then how the fuck do you control the combo and the camera at the same time?

Point is, you can't dismiss the worries around the game on people being "hyperbolic negative Nancys". I love the God of War series, I liked it when it was this crazy ass hack and slash game. The new combat looks slow, clunky and completely not what I wanted and it's not only because of the camera angle, though that is very much a part of the problem. It's just that I don't get what's the point of changing the one thing that was great about the series.
 
Point is, you can't dismiss the worries around the game on people being "hyperbolic negative Nancys". I love the God of War series, I liked it when it was this crazy ass hack and slash game. The new combat looks slow, clunky and completely not what I wanted and it's not only because of the camera angle, though that is very much a part of the problem. It's just that I don't get what's the point of changing the one thing that was great about the series.
I don't see what's so slow and clunky with the bits of combat we've seen
I was worried too, but the latest clips of combat looked way faster than I was expecting and way more forceful and physical than the Blades of Chaos ever did. Your hits and moves look like they have actual heft and weight behind them. The switching between weapons, the way attack animations flow between one another, seems more fluid than the older combat.
 

Veelk

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I don't see what's so slow and clunky with the bits of combat we've seen

I was worried too, but the latest clips of combat looked way faster than I was expecting and way more forceful and physical than the Blades of Chaos ever did. Your hits and moves look like they have actual heft and weight behind them. The switching between weapons, the way attack animations flow between one another, seems more fluid than the older combat.

My concern is not so much literal slowness as low aggression.

I need to see what a full, extended battle looks like instead of just a bunch of animation snippets. How the enemies move around and attack over the course of the battle will determine how this new camera plays out.

With the closed in point of view, you have less awareness of the area around you. If the enemies have the same level of aggression, it would probably result in a lot of hits coming from offscreen. So the natural assumption is that the enemies will be less aggressive, thus making the battle 'slower', but not the literal sense of Kratos not moving as fast. It means that there won't be as many actions happening at once. Maybe the developers have found some kind of trick to compensate for that, but we can't really tell that from a few gifs of Kratos stunlocking an enemy or in the middle of a not-qte (whatever their calling their cinematic battle moments)
 

Lionel Richie

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I don't see what's so slow and clunky with the bits of combat we've seen

I was worried too, but the latest clips of combat looked way faster than I was expecting and way more forceful and physical than the Blades of Chaos ever did. Your hits and moves look like they have actual heft and weight behind them. The switching between weapons, the way attack animations flow between one another, seems more fluid than the older combat.

Funny, I actually think it's the opposite. The way the blades of chaos used to hit the ground after the basic combo was awesome, it felt really powerful and it had a sense of momentum that made it feel like it was sending the enemies straight to hell or shit. Besides, it had that strong red/orange light and it just looked cool as fuck. It looked like fireworks. This one? Even the latest clips don't look all that fluid. It doesn't look bad, the animation is superb and the graphics are obviously awesome, but it just lacks that free-flowing adrenaline rush of the older games. Guys are waiting to get punched, what is this, a Steven Seagal movie?

I'm not completely without hope here, near the end of that first gif you sent there's nice combo looking move he pulls of with the axe. If I can bunny hop that hyper violent looking move to the end I'd be cool with it. Who knows, maybe Santa Monica will surprise me and of course I will still buy it day one. But I'm still salty about the changes in the combat.

The best parts of God of War are the scale and spectacle. The combat got the job done but that was about it. Not bad, but definitely not great.

I think it's a combination of both. The combat was basic but satisfying, and the sense of grandeur was aided by the wrecking ball awesome recklessness of the whole experience. It was badass not because you were told you were playing as one, but because it really felt badass.
 

ActWan

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My only problem with the combat bits they've shown is that the enemies just stand there and do nothing. I hope it's for the presentation purposes, to show Kratos' moveset, and not representative of the full game.
 

Death Penalty

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Okay, CAD, I chuckled. You win this time.

Alright, I'm not CAD's biggest fan, but Kratos doing a dad joke is pretty darn funny.

I don't see what's so slow and clunky with the bits of combat we've seen

I was worried too, but the latest clips of combat looked way faster than I was expecting and way more forceful and physical than the Blades of Chaos ever did. Your hits and moves look like they have actual heft and weight behind them. The switching between weapons, the way attack animations flow between one another, seems more fluid than the older combat.

Preach. As someone who was really worried upon the initial reveal, I was very impressed by the combat reveal. The lack of Kratos' reach with the Blades of Chaos is really alleviated by the returning throwing axe, the combat looks just as fast as ever, and I really can't compliment the new weight of Kratos' blows enough, as you mentioned. Not only is he fast, but his attacks feel visceral and full of impact, something the original series always lacked. The magical integration (I assume stuff like the shockwave is magic) also looks smoother than it ever has in the series. Even the kid, who I had doubts about (the idea that a runt with a bow could help Kratos seemed to indicate less fantastical combat) ended up being a really pleasant surprise by shooting a lightning bolt out of his bow.

My one and only concern at this point is a lack of scale I've been perceiving so far. I thought it was really cool how Jormungandr, Midgardsormr, the World Serpent, whatever they decide to call him ended up being a surprise in the trailer by not attacking Kratos, but I still crave boss battles of that magnitude. I'm not shouting doom and gloom yet concerning the scale, as it seems even the troll could be a cyclops-style miniboss goon, but if the new style keeps us from fighting enemies the size of a mountain that will be a real shame in my eyes.
 
My one and only concern at this point is a lack of scale I've been perceiving so far. I thought it was really cool how Jormungandr, Midgardsormr, the World Serpent, whatever they decide to call him ended up being a surprise in the trailer by not attacking Kratos, but I still crave boss battles of that magnitude. I'm not shouting doom and gloom yet concerning the scale, as it seems even the troll could be a cyclops-style miniboss goon, but if the new style keeps us from fighting enemies the size of a mountain that will be a real shame in my eyes.
To be fair, Barlog said they didn't show the usual scope and scale in the first demo because it's God of War, of course you're getting that.

Now this is the guy who gave us the Colossus of Rhodes and Steeds of Time and had a major influence on God of War 3. And this is first God of War built from the ground up for PS4

I trust them to not skimp on the usual GoW craziness
 

Death Penalty

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To be fair, Barlog said they didn't show the usual scope and scale in the first demo because it's God of War, of course you're getting that.

Now this is the guy who gave us the Colossus of Rhodes and Steeds of Time and had a major influence on God of War 3. And this is first God of War built from the ground up for PS4

I trust them to not skimp on the usual GoW craziness

I'm not too worried yet, I think it would be really strange if they did shy away from scale when we've got oodles of giants, a snake that encircles the earth, and a wolf that can swallow the sun in the core mythology. To be perfectly honest, after the amazing combat showing in this most recent trailer I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt on just about everything else. Unlike a few of the fans, I'm actually really excited to see a Kratos who I might actually be able to like in some capacity and a God of War game that's able to leverage the mythology as more than just a gallery of legendary figures to kill.
 

OléGunner

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I'm not too worried yet, I think it would be really strange if they did shy away from scale when we've got oodles of giants, a snake that encircles the earth, and a wolf that can swallow the sun in the core mythology. To be perfectly honest, after the amazing combat showing in this most recent trailer I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt on just about everything else. Unlike a few of the fans, I'm actually really excited to see a Kratos who I might actually be able to like in some capacity and a God of War game that's able to leverage the mythology as more than just a gallery of legendary figures to kill.

Cory also said during E3 on one of the Playstations streams that the game starts in the same insane/bombastic way every GoW begins so that's good to know.
 

bunkitz

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I'm not too worried yet, I think it would be really strange if they did shy away from scale when we've got oodles of giants, a snake that encircles the earth, and a wolf that can swallow the sun in the core mythology. To be perfectly honest, after the amazing combat showing in this most recent trailer I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt on just about everything else. Unlike a few of the fans, I'm actually really excited to see a Kratos who I might actually be able to like in some capacity and a God of War game that's able to leverage the mythology as more than just a gallery of legendary figures to kill.

Oh god, yes. Something that always disappointed me about the franchise was how they often just used Greek mythology as a backdrop and not much more. We didn't get much else aside from the characters we fought and killed. That's why I'm so excited for how much more story-focused the game seems to be, and the emphasis on exploration.