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God of War Director Explains Why There Will Only Be Two Games in the Norse Saga

kiphalfton

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Didn't think of Egyptian mythology, I know nothing about the Chinese mythology though.

So we can see our boy, destroy every mythology icons out there.
Again, not from what you want BUT from a story standpoint. Worshipping of gods in different regions probably didn't even happen during the same time period, let alone during the span of one person's life (i.e. kratos).

It's like DBZ where it just becomes stupid.
 
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mrabott

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I don't understand how people so readily accept that we're just going to go through all the available mythologies like a checklist. The original games weren't "the Greek games;" they were just set in Greece. To take things to Scandinavia after the seemingly conclusive original storyline was an interesting pivot to revive the series and it ended up being good in spite of the contrivance, although it was not a given that they'd be able to pull it off. But if it's just going to devolve into "Kratos travels the world," that is very uninteresting to me and I'd rather they just made a new IP.

Man, I think the same. Kratos is not a assassin to be included in all that is mythology. In greece he sought revenge for the murder of his family by his own hands. In Norse mythology, he was living quietly when they came to pick a fight with him.
What will be the excuse for him to go to Egypt? And why would he fight the Egyptian gods?
As you said, if it's going to be like that, it's better to end the franchise.
 
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Skull-Knight

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We better get boss fights:

- Surtr
- Fenrir
- Odin
- Thor
- Freya
- Freyr
- Heimdall
- Niddhogg
- Ragnar Lodbrooke

Maybe GoW Ragnarok isn't that overwhelming graphically because they spent all their budget on epic boss fights and enemy variety which I am totally ok with.

They shouldn't have made the first game so reserved in introducing epic norse figures we will really be cucked of the norse legends if they only give us Odin, Freya, and Thor.
These Gods really wishlist man I'm really worried we not gonna see them. Odin may even be an old crazy retired god and we have nothing to do with him.

and lokis baby like Fenrir and help too. jorgmund is just a time traveler and this is the only reason we have seen him.
 
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YukiOnna

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Odin may even be an old crazy retired god and we have nothing to do with him.
They already described Odin as an old man in Asgard, not some grand Allfather in a castle. Though we have more than enough information through out GoW 2018 that he's done a lot of shit to Midgard and the other realms.
 

KAL2006

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I don't understand how people so readily accept that we're just going to go through all the available mythologies like a checklist. The original games weren't "the Greek games;" they were just set in Greece. To take things to Scandinavia after the seemingly conclusive original storyline was an interesting pivot to revive the series and it ended up being good in spite of the contrivance, although it was not a given that they'd be able to pull it off. But if it's just going to devolve into "Kratos travels the world," that is very uninteresting to me and I'd rather they just made a new IP.

To be fair I wished they moved mythologies with the original games. The setting got stale aftr God of War 2. God of War 3 I can accept due to the generational leap. But shit like Chains of Olympus, Ghost of Sparta and the one after 3 just made me get bored of the setting, where the new mythology felt like a massive breath of fresh air. I do not want it to get stale again, and I think 2 is the perfect number. The first game sets everything up nicely, everything is fresh, the 2nd one refines it and goes more crazy with bosses and encounters.
 

Fahdis

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Sorry, I was late in the thread, I was throwing out the garbage. Are we cucked yet?
 

Skull-Knight

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They already described Odin as an old man in Asgard, not some grand Allfather in a castle. Though we have more than enough information through out GoW 2018 that he's done a lot of shit to Midgard and the other realms.
but an old man like who? Zeus or Disney Odin.

Yeah, he was who sent Baldur and thor's sons after Kratos.
 
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The sequel could still happen in 2022. It's based on the same engine and core gameplay systems that 4 had. With that in mind, new art assets, mocap and voice acting sessions and possibly the addition of some new gameplay mechanics should be all that needs to be done.
Keeping that perspective, 4 years sounds like a reasonable amount of time. As much as I enjoyed 4, I'm okay with a delay if they feel it's required. Call me cautiously optimistic.
 

DJ Shalad

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Thicc of War!
Cracking Up Reaction GIF by MOODMAN
 

Yoboman

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1st game took 5 years from scratch. 2013 to 2018. He said GoWR will be similar.

He doesn't want to just say "4 years" because that would imply its coming in April-May 2022.
He doesn't want to just say "5 years" because that would imply its coming in April-May 2023.

Its probably aiming for September to November 2022. Which is roughly 4.5 years. Aka. similar to 5.

Of course it could be delayed, but nothing he said indicates that it will.



GoW antagonists = Baldur, Magni, Modi. (Plus Valkyries.) With Thor & Odin as background threats/forces.

GoW Ragnarok antagonists = Freya, Thor, Odin. (Plus Valkyries.)

Basically the same.


Back in 2018, Cory Barlog said they had an outline for trilogy of games (in the Norse setting), with GoW 2018 being the 1st game.
I think people under estimate how big of a deal pre production is and how long it can take, and also that it happens before the current game ships.

I just rewatched the Raising Kratos documentary and they said that the Stig new IP was 36 months in pre production while Ascension was being made. So 3.5 years

Even if they got right to work on actual production after GOW 2018 I'd be willing to bet there's at least 6 months or a year of pre production that happened before GOW 2018 even came out

They need to keep devs working after all and pretty much have work lined up to phase in when the previous game finishes

Also the fact that Cory is the one who had the 2021 target makes me think it really can't be too far off. Even though it was delayed I don't think we are looking at a 2 year delay

 
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Mercenary09

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But wasn't this game supposed to come out this year??? Did Sony lie to us? lmao
It was delayed to next year awhile back. Now he did say he's guessing this one will take a similar amount of time and to be fair 4 years is still close to the same amount of time as the first one. Especially if it comes out towards the end of next year.
 

kyliethicc

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I think people under estimate how big of a deal pre production is and how long it can take, and also that it happens before the current game ships.

I just rewatched the Raising Kratos documentary and they said that the Stig new IP was 36 months in pre production while Ascension was being made. So 3.5 years

Even if they got right to work on actual production after GOW 2018 I'd be willing to bet there's at least 6 months or a year of pre production that happened before GOW 2018 even came out

They need to keep devs working after all and pretty much have work lined up to phase in when the previous game finishes

Also the fact that Cory is the one who had the 2021 target makes me think it really can't be too far off. Even though it was delayed I don't think we are looking at a 2 year delay

My guess is it ships in September or November 2022.

Looks like pre-covid they were hoping for Horizon 2 and GT7 to be out in spring 2021, but both got delayed about a year. And then I'd assume GoWR was aiming for fall 2021, but also got delayed a year.

The trailer we just got is very similar to the GoW 2017 E3 trailer.

GoW shipped about a year later in April 2018.

So I'd say the game will ship about a year from now.
 
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Yoboman

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My guess is it ships in September or November 2022.

Looks like pre-covid they were hoping for Horizon 2 and GT7 to be out in spring 2021, but both got delayed about a year. And then I'd assume GoWR was aiming for fall 2021, but also got delayed a year.

The trailer we just got is very similar to the GoW 2017 E3 trailer.

GoW shipped about a year later in April 2018.

So I'd say the game will ship about a year from now.
I could see that.

I could also see them dropping an earlier than expected release date early next year for a March-April launch like they did with 2018

Either way I dont think they are going to give us much of a hint until its close to ready

Hard to gauge where the game is at right now but the fact that they are showing multiple environments quite far along is promising for it being relatively close.
 
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kyliethicc

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I could see that.

I could also see them dropping an earlier than expected release date early next year for a March-April launch like they did with 2018

Either way I dont think they are going to give us much of a hint until its close to ready

Hard to gauge where the game is at right now but the fact that they are showing multiple environments quite far along is promising for it being relatively close.
Won't come out in March. That's GT7.

Plus there's the Uncharted collection and MLB coming in March or April too.

And if it was coming in April, they would say by now. Or say "early 2022" or "first half" etc.

Like they said "Early 2018" in June 2017 for GoW at E3.

GoWR is definitely aiming for fall 2022, with a chance it slips to spring 2023.
 
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Yoboman

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Won't come out in March. That's GT7.

Plus there's the Uncharted collection and MLB coming in March or April too.

And if it was coming in April, they would say by now. Or say "early 2022" or "first half" etc.

Like they said "Early 2018" in June 2017 for GoW at E3.

GoWR is definitely aiming for fall 2022, with a chance it slips to spring 2023.
Sonys never shown much hesitation to stack games into a short time frame. They are more likely to just get a game out when its done.

In fact the highly unlikely scenario is them pushing a game to accommodate Holidays or anything like that. I dont recall them ever doing it. For example God of War 2018 and Detroit Become Human came out within days of eachother

I especially dont see a racing game, sport or old ports pushing out a far bigger title.

There was much scepticism about GOW 2018 release as well


I think the fact is that Santa Monica don't want to reveal much on their games or lock a firm date in too early and miss it so it ends up being quite vague. But the target is 2022 according to Herman Hulst so again I dont think they were over a year off the mark with the original target so as to be 2023. And GOW experiencing one major delay is basically tradition

 
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kyliethicc

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Sonys never shown much hesitation to stack games into a short time frame. They are more likely to just get a game out when its done.

In fact the highly unlikely scenario is them pushing a game to accommodate Holidays or anything like that. I dont recall them ever doing it. For example God of War 2018 and Detroit Become Human came out within days of eachother

I especially dont see a racing game, sport or old ports pushing out a far bigger title.

There was much scepticism about GOW 2018 release as well


I think the fact is that Santa Monica don't want to reveal much on their games or lock a firm date in too early and miss it so it ends up being quite vague. But the target is 2022 according to Herman Hulst so again I dont think they were over a year off the mark with the original target so as to be 2023. And GOW experiencing one major delay is basically tradition


God of War was April 20 2018.
Detroit was May 25 2018.

They never ship 2 AAA games in a single month, ignoring MLB.

Of course its possible GoWR ships in April 2022, but I highly doubt it.
 
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Maybe start with not making every game be 40-50 hours.

There is a reason Sony studios used to make a game every 2-3 years. They used to be 10-15 hours long at best. Even their open world games like Infamous.

It seems like they've set the bar too high and are worried about expectations not being met.

So yeah, they decided to take nearly 5 years to make basically 2 games, when they could have potentially made two 20 hour games in that time...would have sold just as well honestly.

I think 20 hours is a bit of a sweet spot. I wouldn't mind the games that take 40-50 hours but there's not enough studios to support regular releases with that strategy.
 
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Yoboman

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Maybe start with not making every game be 40-50 hours.

There is a reason Sony studios used to make a game every 2-3 years. They used to be 10-15 hours long at best. Even their open world games like Infamous.
I dont think they can go back now. They'd get panned critically and from fans.

Better to continue growing so that all Sonys major devs are at the size of 2 full production teams and can get a game out every 2.5-3 years even with 5-6 years development
 
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Yselacrey00

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It was delayed to next year awhile back. Now he did say he's guessing this one will take a similar amount of time and to be fair 4 years is still close to the same amount of time as the first one. Especially if it comes out towards the end of next year.
The way he said it seems to me like they always planned a 5 years development, otherwise he would talk about how it's almost done and that they had to delay the game because reasons but he isn't.
 

SlimySnake

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I think people under estimate how big of a deal pre production is and how long it can take, and also that it happens before the current game ships.

I just rewatched the Raising Kratos documentary and they said that the Stig new IP was 36 months in pre production while Ascension was being made. So 3.5 years

Even if they got right to work on actual production after GOW 2018 I'd be willing to bet there's at least 6 months or a year of pre production that happened before GOW 2018 even came out

They need to keep devs working after all and pretty much have work lined up to phase in when the previous game finishes

Also the fact that Cory is the one who had the 2021 target makes me think it really can't be too far off. Even though it was delayed I don't think we are looking at a 2 year delay

Cory also said that he made the decision on making it cross gen. This is back when Alannah Pearce the new hire was getting death threats for the cross gen announcement lol. Maybe he was sticking up for her, but he was also the director of god of war 2 which was also last gen despite the fact the ps3 had already been announced when gow 1 came out.

it seems the problem is Cory. The delay is only going to cost him and his new IP delaying that game by a year as well. If GOW comes out in November 2022, we might not see Cory's new IP until 2025 at the latest.

This explains why Herman is going out there signing up new devs left and right. PS studios are about to have a very unproductive gen. They shouldve been 1000 man 2 teams studios by now. I have no idea how the execs didnt see this coming. Days Gone, GoW, Sucker Punch, Detroit and Horizon all took 5-7 years last gen. How do you see that and think your studios have enough developers for next gen?
 
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Yoboman

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Cory also said that he made the decision on making it cross gen. This is back when Alannah Pearce the new hire was getting death threats for the cross gen announcement lol. Maybe he was sticking up for her, but he was also the director of god of war 2 which was also last gen despite the fact the ps3 had already been announced when gow 1 came out.

it seems the problem is Cory. The delay is only going to cost him and his new IP delaying that game by a year as well. If GOW comes out in November 2022, we might not see Cory's new IP until 2025 at the latest.

This explains why Herman is going out there signing up new devs left and right. PS studios are about to have a very unproductive gen. They shouldve been 1000 man 2 teams studios by now. I have no idea how the execs didnt see this coming. Days Gone, GoW, Sucker Punch, Detroit and Horizon all took 5-7 years last gen. How do you see that and think your studios have enough developers for next gen?
How do you know they haven't scaled up? Insomniac are very clearly at a two team studio and leading the charge. Maybe even 2.5 the way they are rolling out games. SSM have two games in production. Naughty Dog and Guerrilla as well if rumours are true. Sucker Punch are probably a bit behind the curve there being a more recent success story but even they had job ads for a multiplayer project recently
 
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DeepEnigma

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Honestly they didn't do much in the first game to progress the plot.
They literally caused Odin’s wife to seek revenge on Kratos for snuffing their son, telling him there is nowhere he can hide, and got the attention of his favorite son who rides the lightning. His home is no longer safe, Ragnarok is coming, and Kratos may have had responsibility in that.
 
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Synless

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They literally caused Odin’s wife to seek revenge on Kratos for snuffing their son, telling him there is nowhere he can hide, and got the attention of his favorite son who rides the lightning. His home is no longer safe, Ragnarok is coming, and Kratos may have had responsibility in that.
Kratos didn’t do shit. He tried to live in peace and those fucks brought the war to him. Odin’s son was the catalyst. Krato’s just tried to do the right thing for once.
 

YukiOnna

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Kratos didn’t do shit. He tried to live in peace and those fucks brought the war to him. Odin’s son was the catalyst. Krato’s just tried to do the right thing for once.
And unfortunately, it was partly Fayes fault, too. Having him cut down the marked trees allowed Odin to find them and send Baldur, too. Kratos really was just trying to do the right thing for Atreus and honor his wifes wishes.
 
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DeepEnigma

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Kratos didn’t do shit. He tried to live in peace and those fucks brought the war to him. Odin’s son was the catalyst. Krato’s just tried to do the right thing for once.
True, I should have said, “had a hand in that.”
 

SlimySnake

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How do you know they haven't scaled up? Insomniac are very clearly at a two team studio and leading the charge. Maybe even 2.5 the way they are rolling out games. SSM have two games in production. Naughty Dog and Guerrilla as well if rumours are true. Sucker Punch are probably a bit behind the curve there being a more recent success story but even they had job ads for a multiplayer project recently
Naughty Dog's President Evan Wells said they have not been able to get multiple teams to go in full production at the same time. This was in April.

“The amount of effort that was required to finish Uncharted 3 at the time was stealing resources away from The Last of Us, and we never got to the point where we had two full productions going,” he added. “I would say even today we’re just short of that. We definitely have multiple projects, but only one that is getting the lion’s share of focus at any time.”

Wells went on to reveal that some of Naughty Dog’s projects are in pre-production while others are just making it out of pre-production.

“We don’t have two projects that have several hundred people on them,” he continued. “We have one [project] and then some that are in pre-production, or maybe just creeping out of pre-production, but will have to wait until the main focus has completed before we move everybody off of that project.”

There is also Schrier's reporting which confirmed that ND devs had nothing to work on after shipping TLOU2 and ended up shifting to the VSG studio reboot. If they had a second game coming out of pre-production around the time TLOU2 shipped, the team would have moved to that. Instead they ended up fucking with a separate studio's project because Neil didnt even know if he wanted to do a TLOU sequel and Evan Wells had spent the past three years jerking off instead of lining up a game for them to move to. ND also needed Sony Bend's help to finish up TLOU2 which they wouldnt have if they had a separate team working on another title far off.

It's been almost a year and a half since TLOU2 went gold and they had nothing to show at the September reveal. Cory had 3.5 years and had nothing to show at the september reveal. Sony had no problems showing cg trailers for wolverine and other games way out in 2023 so its not like they were holding back. The fact of the matter is that these studios are ill-equipped to work on two projects at the same time.

GG last shipped a game in Feb 2017. That's almost 5 years and no new game announcement? Clearly they are not a two team studio. They have multiple projects but they dont have the capacity to work on full production simultaneously.

again, the proof is in the pudding and none of these studios showed up with mutliple projects. Only insomniac did and they have had multiple teams going back to the PS3 era with Ratchet and Resistance teams working independently putting out a new game every other year. Herman Hurst needs to be fired and replaced with Ted Price.

Who is to blame for this? Jim Ryan? Herman Hurst? These studios themselves who want full autonomy but cant seem to get a game out in less than 5 years? I think everyone is to be blamed. Sony needs to step in and create multiple teams at every single studio. Hire thousands of devs and really truly invest in software development. Their games make $240 million in 3 days now. thats hollywood money. It's time to treat these studios like a real business instead of a homegrown mom and pop shop Evan Wells wants to run it as.
 
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Yoboman

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Naughty Dog's President Evan Wells said they have not been able to get multiple teams to go in full production at the same time. This was in April.



There is also Schrier's reporting which confirmed that ND devs had nothing to work on after shipping TLOU2 and ended up shifting to the VSG studio reboot. If they had a second game coming out of pre-production around the time TLOU2 shipped, the team would have moved to that. Instead they ended up fucking with a separate studio's project because Neil didnt even know if he wanted to do a TLOU sequel and Evan Wells had spent the past three years jerking off instead of lining up a game for them to move to. ND also needed Sony Bend's help to finish up TLOU2 which they wouldnt have if they had a separate team working on another title far off.

It's been almost a year and a half since TLOU2 went gold and they had nothing to show at the September reveal. Cory had 3.5 years and had nothing to show at the september reveal. Sony had no problems showing cg trailers for wolverine and other games way out in 2023 so its not like they were holding back. The fact of the matter is that these studios are ill-equipped to work on two projects at the same time.

GG last shipped a game in Feb 2017. That's almost 5 years and no new game announcement? Clearly they are not a two team studio. They have multiple projects but they dont have the capacity to work on full production simultaneously.

again, the proof is in the pudding and none of these studios showed up with mutliple projects. Only insomniac did and they have had multiple teams going back to the PS3 era with Ratchet and Resistance teams working independently putting out a new game every other year. Herman Hurst needs to be fired and replaced with Ted Price.

Who is to blame for this? Jim Ryan? Herman Hurst? These studios themselves who want full autonomy but cant seem to get a game out in less than 5 years? I think everyone is to be blamed. Sony needs to step in and create multiple teams at every single studio. Hire thousands of devs and really truly invest in software development. Their games make $240 million in 3 days now. thats hollywood money. It's time to treat these studios like a real business instead of a homegrown mom and pop shop Evan Wells wants to run it as.
I agree its not been there but doesn't mean it can't or already isn't going forward. As you mention they've tried the scaling but its about making it work. Right now we know TLOU Factions was a separate project alongside TLOU2, we know Cory has is own project going, and GG have been hiring for multiplayer which definitely isn't Horizon back in 2019

The good thing as well for these studios that may have had false starts trying to get multiple teams going is that Insomniac have shown a path to it working and they all share insight and help eachother grow

And its weird to blame Herman and Ryan if these teams didn't expand considering he's only been in the role a year and a half. Not long enough to even see a project greenlit to completion let alone two from the same studios

And had TLOU2 literally had thousands of people credited. If that's not a Hollywood like production I dont know what is
 

Heisenberg007

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I trust Cory! Bring it on.

I just hope we continue the series with Kratos in Egypt and other pantheons. I'd also love a spin-off series with Atreus in the Norse or any other mythology, tbh.
 
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3liteDragon

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From the Raising Kratos documentary, this was the footage they showed off to Sony when they first pitched GoW (2018) I believe. And no it's not a "deleted scene" like the title says.

 
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