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News Drama God of War Ragnarok Writer Champions Angrboda as Part of "Our own spin" on Norse mythology

Kimahri

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Its also been explained that how someone with dark skin could plausibly exist in a setting like this, but that didn't seem to change the conversation much.
Eh, yeah, but that's kinda the thing though. Angrboda is not an outsider. She's a jotun, basically an indigenous people in norse mythology. So if she's black, jotuns in general should be black. Or at least, large portions of the population should be, keeping in mind jotuns come in all shaoes and sizes.

Or.

If she's an outsider, ending up there for reasons unknown. Then is she even a jotun? Or are there jotuns all over the world in this game world. How does that relate to other mythologies? She being dark skinned just poses a ton of question, and I just really hope the devs intend to answer those. It'd make the story better,more compelling. And this doesn't mean they need to spend tons of time on it. Showing it through background characters or background chatter could suffise. I just hope they ground everything.

I can't wait to see what the welsh viking has to say on this. He had a great video on Thor, and he creates a lot of very insightful videos on all things viking. I highly recommend.
 

Claus Grimhildyr

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It's crazy how they immediately try to character assassinate you by deliberately misrepresenting your point.



Exactly, "putting your own spin" on it is tacitly admitting that you're doing something unorthodox.

Its always the same handful of miserable cretins too. Rarely do they ever just want to chat and discuss games, they only pop in when they want to try to "cancel" others. Fuckers can't even bother reading the thread or understanding context. Trying to view another's point of view and see where they are coming from is a literal impossibility for them.

Thankfully the vast majority of the forum knows they are worthless trolls, but sadly even with that knowledge they still can ruin a good discussion thread.
 
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ShadowLag

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Game's obviously gonna be very good and at least Kratos isn't having a sexuality struggle or some shit all of a sudden. I see no problem with this character but yes there is absolutely a very real agenda by certain fringe groups to erase white people from many other things for woke virtue points. I don't really think this is one of those cases.

SSM and Cory are fucking legends and I know they're smarter than that.
 
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Why not make next GOW game set in Africa with Kratos fighting "spirits" or some shit or just Egypt where it would still make sense for Egyptian gods to be black. It's just plain stupid in Norse mythology.
I’m assuming that’s where she comes into play..... maybe she leads into that?
 

WitchHunter

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Because Kratos is an icon of the videogames, he's a big part of what makes the IP special and it wouldn't make sense to make a God of War game without him unless it's a small spin-off because he still has a lot of charisma and there is no need to remove him at all other than SJW stupid and wrong reasons of removing a male, white, cis or heterosexual protagonist and to replace him with a female/non-white/cis/non-hetero character.
My only reason is he already begins to remind me of these Marvel characters that are overused. What made Kratos big are his stints in the first three games. Those are hard to sell nowadays, so partly that's why Atreus was introduced, he is a counterweight to Kratos' destructive behaviour.

According to Cory SSM is working in other things and I assume one of them is a new IP. If they want to make a game with another protagonist. Sony is working in over 25 games and around half of them are new IPs, there is no need to turn God of War into almost a new IP. It already was rebooted in the previous game and became one of the best games of the generation, there is no point on removing Kratos now.
Who wants to turn GOW into a new ip or remove the protagonist? Create a separate, but similar game with a new protagonist in another cultural setting. That's all. These can go parallel. Asassin's Creed had multiple protagonists and people didn't complain, ate it like hotcakes.
 

Nobody_Important

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Yes, they won't say in the game that they think that it's racist to have an all white cast even if it's set in the old norse mithology to the point they think they must include a black character there because of tokenism.

And for the same reason if they use Loki's shapeshifting skills to reinterpret it in the woke way to turn Atreus into trans, gender fluid or other non-binary stuff and decide to replace Kratos with him or his black wife as the new GoW protagonist they won't tell you they are removing Kratos because of dumb SJW religious reasons as 'toxic masculinity', that having too much male (or white, or cis, or heterosexual) protagonists is problematic/bad/etc.

They didn't that when they were torturing Joel in TLOU2, even if in that scene there was a character who looks like Druckmann spitting Joel and tells him 'Burn in hell, pendejo' (it's a tokenism NPC character who other than that basically only says pendejo multiplle tiems to make sure people gets they included a latino to fill their representation checklist).



But yeah it's definitely just the developers that are obsessed with politics and race lol
 
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Nobody_Important

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It's their cultural appropriation....er, I mean interpretation.
By that logic literally any game that has ever placed itself within a setting based on mythology or history and put their own spin on it is taking part in cultural appropriation.



What a ridiculous thing to say.
 
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yurinka

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My only reason is he already begins to remind me of these Marvel characters that are overused. What made Kratos big are his stints in the first three games. Those are hard to sell nowadays, so partly that's why Atreus was introduced, he is a counterweight to Kratos' destructive behaviour.
Overused? He only got a game this generation, and two in the previous one and two more in the previous one, plus the two PSP games. What do you think about Mario and the 324072304 Mario games and spin-offs he gets every generation?

Why do you need to have another protagonist? What is wrong with having Kratos the protagonist (or being the only one)?
 
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Nobody_Important

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Overused? He only got a game this generation, and two in the previous one and two more in the previous one, plus the two PSP games. What do you think about Mario and the 324072304 Mario games and spin-offs he gets every generation?

Why do you need to have another protagonist? What is wrong with having Kratos the protagonist (or being the only one)?
Eventually it gets old for some people. Not everyone is just fine with have 7 movies/games with the same person or character at the center.
 

Azurro

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Yeah the people trying to introduce racial diversity into games are the REAL racists!


Okay lol

Yes, because they are inserting diversity where it doesn't belong and erasing cultural inheritance of people that are considered white. I'm not even white, I'm Latino af and I can see this.

Just because you have been indoctrinated to hate your own people doesn't make it ok.
 

Danjin44

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When GOW series was EVER accurate to their mythology!? Why suddenly this has became such big deal for people? At end of the day Norse mythology are nothing more than fairy tails stories similar to unicorn and dragons, developers are allowed to make their own version of Norse mythology if they want to.

If you really want the true story behind Norse mythology then either read a book about it or watch documentary, you don't got to GOW for accuracy.
 
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Nobody_Important

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Yes, because they are inserting diversity where it doesn't belong and erasing cultural inheritance of people that are considered white. I'm not even white, I'm Latino af and I can see this.

Just because you have been indoctrinated to hate your own people doesn't make it ok.
Yeah okay. You got me. I hate white people despite being white myself. That is literally the ONLY way to explain why I don't care that this character has dark skin. Couldn't possibly be that race is just not a factor for me when I look at characters or their stories. Couldn't possibly be that I don't think a dark skinned character in a Norse Mythology setting is that weird. It is definitely only because I have been conditioned by the mainstream media to hate white people and therefore I automatically support all dark skinned characters in my games.



You sure showed me :rolleyes:



You need help.
 
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I’m gonna against the grain here; I don’t see this as woke pandering IMO. If anything, I give them some smidgen of credit for not making the black characters look generic and mainstream >saintstowreboot< *eyeroll*
Ok i'm gonna ask what people wanted to ask for a long time, if kratos is white because of the ash, does that means that he never takes a bath\clean himself?!

How hard can it be to get rid of some ash?! or is it some type of magic ash?


Such a good spot, the actor choice was chef kiss, one of the few good things about ascension.
IIRC, yes, the ash on Kratos is cursed by the Oracle Of Athens.
 
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Hoddi

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When GOW series was EVER accurate to their mythology!? Why suddenly this has became such big deal for people? At end of the day Norse mythology are nothing more than fairy tails stories similar to unicorn and dragons, developers are allowed to make their own version of Norse mythology if they want to.

If you really want the true story behind Norse mythology then either read a book about it or watch documentary, you don't got to GOW for accuracy.
Those people were pretending to care about historical accuracy on literally the same day that they got mad about a historically accurate Thor.

God of War 2018 was already a fucking travesty as far as accuracy was concerned. I grew up on these stories and I pretty much hated that game because it took so many liberties. Angurboða being a black girl is by far the smallest concern that anyone should have if they cared even slightly about accuracy.
 
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With respect to whichever mod thinks my posts are problematic, just because i'm not falling for the thinly vieled racism in this thread does not mean i'm drive by trolling. I did contribute so please don't hit me with that bs
 

OsirisBlack

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With respect to whichever mod thinks my posts are problematic, just because i'm not falling for the thinly vieled racism in this thread does not mean i'm drive by trolling. I did contribute so please don't hit me with that bs
A ten year combat veteran called a coward on a video game forum. I’ve seen it all. Never called anyone racist or insinuated that this forum was, at least have the decency to spell the word correctly. No respect given and all due disrespect earned.
 
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TagZ

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God of War is a fantasy series loosely based on mythology, with its own internal logic, not a historical period sim like Kingdom Come Deliverance. Anyone can be whatever skin color the devs decide.
Like I said earlier, I think it comes down to fatigue of the double standards and hypocrisy. You gonna tell me that if they decided to create a God of War game where it's about Native American mythology and they include black and white people as characters in their mythos, there won't be push back from the Native American community?
 
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God of War is a fantasy series loosely based on mythology, with its own internal logic, not a historical period sim like Kingdom Come Deliverance. Anyone can be whatever skin color the devs decide.

God of War isn't a historical period sim like Kingdom Come, but well-constructed fantasy still has to explain why different characters have different phenotypes. Usually that's as simple as "this character is from another country where people look like that," but is that the case here?

I've got nothing against GoW portraying the giants as black in general, or portraying them as having varied phenotypes, but if this is a situation where one of the giants is black but the others look like the rest of the Norse cast and there's no explanation to me that would be sloppy worldbuilding.
 

Shmunter

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Agreed. Though I will hold final judgement until the release. I am really hoping that, like Kratos, this Angrboda is actually a god from another pantheon or from another region. A way to set up the next phase of God of War.
If there is a tale backing up the disjointed geographic backgrounds then it will be fine. But if it’s just a casual African in Nordic Europe then it will feel off.
 
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Claus Grimhildyr

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If there is a tale backing up the disjointed geographic backgrounds then it will be fine. But if it’s just a casual African in Nordic Europe then it will feel off.

Exactly! That is what most folks here are discussing/debating. Though of course we have the same handful of folks blatantly/heavily insinuating that people are racist for even having this conversation and disagreeing with them.
 
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EviLore

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Like I said earlier, I think it comes down to fatigue of the double standards and hypocrisy. You gonna tell me that if they decided to create a God of War game where it's about Native American mythology and they include black and white people as characters in their mythos, there won't be push back from the Native American community?
Call me when Zeus is recast as a black lesbian woman in a wheelchair. This isn’t that.
 

Mabdia

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So writing is *always* political

Welp. There wasn't the case a few years back. Also, to me, gaming was way better when there wasn't all that attempt to try political indoctrination using games.

Maybe because of that nowadays i'm buying more old games than new ones.

My money will not be in this one.
 
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Claus Grimhildyr

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Welp. There wasn't the case a few years back. Also, to me, gaming was way better when there wasn't all that attempt to try political indoctrination using games.

Maybe because of that nowadays i'm buying more old games than new ones.

My money will not be in this one.

People mistake politically inspired and a political soapbox. The former is what is common and the vast majority of people are fine with. The likes of Metal Gear Solid spring to mind. The former is what most people despise, the likes of 2064: Read Only Memories comes to mind.
 
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Nobody_Important

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Welp. There wasn't the case a few years back. Also, to me, gaming was way better when there wasn't all that attempt to try political indoctrination using games.

Maybe because of that nowadays i'm buying more old games than new ones.

My money will not be in this one.
Nobody is trying to indoctrinate you. 🤦‍♂️
 
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Jesus. 15 pages over a character design? What happened to the "devs can do whatever they want" argument? Or does that only apply to things that you agree with? Angrdoba's character design looks perfectly fine. This is like the same shit I see on Era where people were screaming about a woman having large breasts.
 
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Jesus. 15 pages over a character design? What happened to the "devs can do whatever they want" argument? Or does that only apply to things that you agree with? Angrdoba's character design looks perfectly fine. This is like the same shit I see on Era where people were screaming about a woman having large breasts.
The point of art criticism, including games criticism, is that while creators have the right to do whatever they want, it isn't necessarily the case that all of their decisions are equally good.
 
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Kimahri

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Do you even read the discussion before you post? And why is it that doscussion is bad as soon as you don't agree with people?
 
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Claus Grimhildyr

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Do you even read the discussion before you post? And why is it that doscussion is bad as soon as you don't agree with people?

They have no intention of discussing. They just want to label everyone as racists/sexists/homophobes/etc. They get off on trying to character assassinate/cancel people.

And it is guaranteed that these same people would be having a mental break down if the roles were reversed. "Rules for thee, not for me" and all that.
 
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El Pistolero

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Neogaf is slowly turning into an Anti-Resetera, which is not a good thing. You do not embrace the opposite opinions of those crazed lunatics without becoming one yourself...It is a videogame, relax! The depictions are of imaginary characters, not historical figures, so let's not raise hell.
 

Kimahri

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Neogaf is slowly turning into an Anti-Resetera, which is not a good thing. You do not embrace the opposite opinions of those crazed lunatics without becoming one yourself...It is a videogame, relax! The depictions are of imaginary characters, not historical figures, so let's not raise hell.
People are actually sharing a lot if interesting knowledge about both mythology og history in this thread, so if you cared about learning anything about the subject at hand, this thread could be great if people like you would stop the drive by shooting.
 

Guilty_AI

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With all due respect, GOW is hardly some incredibly well thought out story. They'll gladly follow any trend as long as they believe that'll give them more likes on twitter or sell more copies. Its a story thats less of a story and more of a product, it has always been this way ever since the very first one, even if they really want others to think the reboot is "serious" and "mature".

With all that taken into consideration, are people really surprised that they wouldn't give two craps about accuracy of whatever? They'd gladly include a scene of Kratos punching Hitler if they think that would net them more copies or higher evaluations from journos, thats just the level they're at.
 

WitchHunter

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With all due respect, GOW is hardly some incredibly well thought out story. They'll gladly follow any trend as long as they believe that'll give them more likes on twitter or sell more copies. Its a story thats less of a story and more of a product, it has always been this way ever since the very first one, even if they really want others to think the reboot is "serious" and "mature".

With all that taken into consideration, are people really surprised that they wouldn't give two craps about accuracy of whatever? They'd gladly include a scene of Kratos punching Hitler if they think that would net them more copies or higher evaluations from journos, thats just the level they're at.
What a good idea. Bringing kratos into nazi territory. Imagine him in uniform.

Btw they doin it good. Ofc if it turns out that the horn blew itself ppl will be angryboda.
 
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Guilty_AI

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What a good idea. Bringing kratos into nazi territory.
Honestly the story is already dead anyway, might as well throw him in medieval japan and have a crossover with ghost of tsushima, and have that be canon.
 
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WitchHunter

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Honestly the story is already dead anyway, might as well throw him in medieval japan and have a crossover with ghost of tsushima, and have that be canon.
What I miss are athletic/platform elements, like we've seen in Tsushima. A spinning samurai in full gear jumping from tree to tree was a stellar thought.