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GOG hitman has online drm, and gets review bombed.

Jan 21, 2019
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GOG should put a DRM tag on the games that have it. But, I literally have 0 issues with DRM, I'm not sure why a lot of you do
 

AlteredForms

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Wouldn’t be surprised to know that the people bitching about this have likely finished the game or own it on Steam already.
 

MaKTaiL

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Close this thread. Nothing more needs to be said. What a brilliant contribution.
Drag Race What GIF by RuPaul's Drag Race
 

LittleWing

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Wouldn’t be surprised to know that the people bitching about this have likely finished the game or own it on Steam already.
How do you dress yourself in the morning? Your comment is at best retarded. This helps verify the reasons people avoid discussion due to so much moronic posting. Crayons could be supplied and a dedicated forum section for your quality level of posting to be submitted in an effort to decrease the amount of shit that is posted.
 

AlteredForms

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How do you dress yourself in the morning? Your comment is at best retarded. This helps verify the reasons people avoid discussion due to so much moronic posting. Crayons could be supplied and a dedicated forum section for your quality level of posting to be submitted in an effort to decrease the amount of shit that is posted.
You're making many assumptions with this comment alone. There's plenty of mature and valid discussion taking place in this forum, it's the entire backbone of NeoGAF, but there's also many facetious statements for the purposes of humour and that was one of mine. You must be new here and it clearly shows, what my comment was highlighting was the basis of bitching for the sake of bitching. A game released in 2016, has been readily available and heavily discounted, and people on GOG act as though they've waited 5 years for it. Like I said, wouldn't be surprised to hear if most people there have already played it.
 

LittleWing

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You're making many assumptions with this comment alone. There's plenty of mature and valid discussion taking place in this forum, it's the entire backbone of NeoGAF, but there's also many facetious statements for the purposes of humour and that was one of mine. You must be new here and it clearly shows, what my comment was highlighting was the basis of bitching for the sake of bitching. A game released in 2016, has been readily available and heavily discounted, and people on GOG act as though they've waited 5 years for it. Like I said, wouldn't be surprised to hear if most people there have already played it.
"bitching for the sake of bitching" The key selling point of GOG has always been the lack of DRM. Your presumption of people possibly bitching about it for the sake of it doesn't matter, it's completely valid and justified criticism. Not sure why my account age or post count is a metric for calling out nonsense?
There are people that don't want to purchase games that have DRM. GOG offer this service, it's one of the the key selling points.
 

AlteredForms

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"bitching for the sake of bitching" The key selling point of GOG has always been the lack of DRM. Your presumption of people possibly bitching about it for the sake of it doesn't matter, it's completely valid and justified criticism. Not sure why my account age or post count is a metric for calling out nonsense?
There are people that don't want to purchase games that have DRM. GOG offer this service, it's one of the the key selling points.
I'm accustomed to their policies due to being a long-time buyer on GOG, but I'm not as animated when it comes to dealing with DRM. One would think with so much happening in the world that review-bombing an old game would be beneath us, but I'm not surprised when it comes to the gaming community. Allow them their petty victory, even though GOG's actions have always been admirable. Bringing forgotten classics to modern hardware, taking on community suggestions and having an excellent refund policy. One wrong move and all that goodwill goes down the crapper.
 
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Guilty_AI

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I'm accustomed to their policies due to being a long-time buyer on GOG, but I'm not as animated when it comes to dealing with DRM. One would think with so much happening in the world that review-bombing an old game would be beneath us, but I'm not surprised when it comes to the gaming community. Allow them their petty victory, even though GOG's actions have always been admirable. Bringing forgotten classics to modern hardware, taking on community suggestions and having an excellent refund policy. One wrong move and all that goodwill goes down the crapper.
Also what i think. While they they do deserve some criticism for it and the negative reviews are fair if only to warn other costumers of the issues, immediately taking out the pitchforks and torches like i see some doing just make things worse in the long run.

The message it sends is that its far more worthwhile for them to flick the 'fuck it' switch and just stop caring at all, since no matter how many good things they bring to the table, all good will is rendered meaningless with one bad move.
The best refund policy in the digital gaming market? Offline installers? Fixed old games? As my parents always said, people only remember and hammer on the mistakes, no matter how small, while completely forgeting all the good you did.
 
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Syphon Filter

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Also what i think. While they they do deserve some criticism for it and the negative reviews are fair if only to warn other costumers of the issues, immediately taking out the pitchforks and torches like i see some doing just make things worse in the long run.

The message it sends is that its far more worthwhile for them to flick the 'fuck it' switch and just stop caring at all, since no matter how many good things they bring to the table, all good will is rendered meaningless with one bad move.
The best refund policy in the digital gaming market? Offline installers? Fixed old games? As my parents always said, people only remember and hammer on the mistakes, no matter how small, while completely forgeting all the good you did.
How is the gog refund better than steam? I dont like steam but im not sure if gog has a better refund policy. Also it doesnt matter what they did before, its where are they now and this was adding up btw with other drm being snuck in here and there with some games.
 

Guilty_AI

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How is the gog refund better than steam? I dont like steam but im not sure if gog has a better refund policy.
30 day refund policy, regardless of having downloaded or not the game, or your play time. Naturally they monitor things to make sure you aren't abusing it.

Steam is 14 days, 2 hours play time max.

Also it doesnt matter what they did before, its where are they now and this was adding up btw with other drm being snuck in here and there with some games.
Its not what they did before, its what they still do. And please don't tell me you're one of those who think if the game has a single item or skin that requires you to login to something to get, it automatically counts as 'DRMed'.
 
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Syphon Filter

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30 day refund policy, regardless of having downloaded or not the game, or your play time. Naturally they monitor things to make sure you aren't abusing it.

Steam is 14 days, 2 hours play time max.


Its not what they did before, its what they still do. And please don't tell me you're one of those who think if the game has a single item or skin that requires you to login to something to get, it automatically counts as 'DRMed'.
No, there is a title called Absolver that is kinda similar to the hitman drm actually. Hitman being the most and biggest one though so this one alone is not forgivable since it can lead to more in the future.
 

Guilty_AI

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No, there is a title called Absolver that is kinda similar to the hitman drm actually. Hitman being the most and biggest one though so this one alone is not forgivable since it can lead to more in the future.
from what i read, the problem with the this absolver game is that the single player PvE mode sucks, while PvP which naturally needs an internet connection is somewhat decent making it kind of the main attraction, though apparently the game just sucks in general either way.
 
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LittleWing

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I'm accustomed to their policies due to being a long-time buyer on GOG, but I'm not as animated when it comes to dealing with DRM. One would think with so much happening in the world that review-bombing an old game would be beneath us, but I'm not surprised when it comes to the gaming community. Allow them their petty victory, even though GOG's actions have always been admirable. Bringing forgotten classics to modern hardware, taking on community suggestions and having an excellent refund policy. One wrong move and all that goodwill goes down the crapper.
"Animated, so much happening in the world, petty victory" What are you even talking about now? You keep shifting and have no actual firm point in your discussion. It seems your point is, it's petty that customers shouldn't be disappointed with a company that prides themselves on selling games without DRM while sneakily selling games with DRM. Complaining against that is petty because of everything that is happening in the world and the game being old?
 
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ShadowNate

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GOG delisted the game for the time being until they discuss the situation with IO and a better (hopefully fully DRM-free) solution is presented:
Dear Community,

Thank you for your patience and for giving us the time to investigate the release of HITMAN GOTY on GOG. As promised, we’re getting back to you with updates.

We're still in dialogue with IO Interactive about this release. Today we have removed HITMAN GOTY from GOG’s catalog – we shouldn’t have released it in its current form, as you’ve pointed out.

We’d like to apologise for the confusion and anger generated by this situation. We’ve let you down and we’d like to thank you for bringing this topic to us – while it was honest to the bone, it shows how passionate you are towards GOG.

We appreciate your feedback and will continue our efforts to improve our communication with you.
 

Soodanim

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Good. I'm glad to see that it's moving in the right direction. GOG markets itself to a certain audience - one that is very much against DRM. The feedback was entirely deserved, and hopefully it's a lesson to be remembered when it comes to future decisions.
 
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Sean Mirrsen

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Saying that "the DRM-free store should just mark the games with DRM" is sort of like saying that "the ski resort should mark the minefields".

One the one hand, yes, definitely. On the other, it's definitely not something that should be there in the first place.

Eventual good move by GOG, let's see if their commitment to DRM-free actually lasts.
 
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One game in 1000s, I dont see a problem. If it starts a giant trend, then sure. Just because a store says their purpose is one thing, doesn't mean they cant do another.

If a bakery says fresh baked food, guess what? When you walk in you can buy fresh baked muffins as well as prepackaged junk like pop, juice, bagged bread made in a factory a week ago, coffee beans in a tin can from 5000 miles away, packaged dry pasta from italy etc.... There's nothing fresh about this stuff. Half the store probably isnt freshly made.

Car dealership. Sign says Honda. Get to the lot and they might have used cars from different brands. It's not necessarily 100% Honda gear.

Who cares.
 
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Syphon Filter

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One game in 1000s, I dont see a problem. If it starts a giant trend, then sure. Just because a store says their purpose is one thing, doesn't mean they cant do another.

If a bakery says fresh baked food, guess what? When you walk in you can buy fresh baked muffins as well as prepackaged junk like pop, juice, bagged bread made in a factory a week ago, coffee beans in a tin can from 5000 miles away, packaged dry pasta from italy etc.... There's nothing fresh about this stuff. Half the store probably isnt freshly made.

Car dealership. Sign says Honda. Get to the lot and they might have used cars from different brands. It's not necessarily 100% Honda gear.

Who cares.
The point of gog is drm free, there shouldn't be any games with drm on it. And obviously a huge amount did since there was a huge thread on the forums and even gaming media picked the story up, gog took the game down today too.
 

lils

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One game in 1000s, I dont see a problem. If it starts a giant trend, then sure. Just because a store says their purpose is one thing, doesn't mean they cant do another.

If a bakery says fresh baked food, guess what? When you walk in you can buy fresh baked muffins as well as prepackaged junk like pop, juice, bagged bread made in a factory a week ago, coffee beans in a tin can from 5000 miles away, packaged dry pasta from italy etc.... There's nothing fresh about this stuff. Half the store probably isnt freshly made.

Car dealership. Sign says Honda. Get to the lot and they might have used cars from different brands. It's not necessarily 100% Honda gear.

Who cares.

i care, because they didn't label it as such.

steam has a warning next to games that have DRM. why doesn't gog, a specifically drm-free store, have that?

since their whole thing is no DRM and people go in expecting things not to have it, they need to do a better job that other stores, not worse. you can argue whether or not they should have it to begin with, but if they do have it, they need to label it VERY clearly. at least what steam has, plus probably having to tick a box saying you're aware of it before purchase, would probably do.
 

Bar81

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Still don't know what these assclowns were thinking in the first place. They thought - let me get this straight - that betraying the one principle justifying the site's existence would be a good idea why exactly?
 

Outlier

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The fact that you need to be online in order to play the game as intended is pretty much DRM, already.

Recently played 2 & 3 on PS5. While I played 2 completely offline, I had no idea that 90% of the game was locked away, unless i played ONLINE. So i beat in a few hours and never touched it again, while I played 3 to the fullest.
 

DrAspirino

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Ideally, IOI should have made a fully offline version.
The thing is that the game is designed to be played online. Challenges are stored on the server and when community found bugs on them, they were fixed on the server.

It's not DRM if you can still play the base game without internet, albeit without all the dynamic content.
 
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Syphon Filter

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The thing is that the game is designed to be played online. Challenges are stored on the server and when community found bugs on them, they were fixed on the server.

It's not DRM if you can still play the base game without internet, albeit without all the dynamic content.
It's drm since the base game has progression locked online. you wouldn't be able to save any of the items if you played offline only.
 

SlimeGooGoo

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The sad thing is, as we move towards game streaming, then all games will have DRM and require constant internet connection by default.
 

Miles708

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The thing is that the game is designed to be played online. Challenges are stored on the server and when community found bugs on them, they were fixed on the server.

It's not DRM if you can still play the base game without internet, albeit without all the dynamic content.

None of these features really need online at a basic functional level, though. It's just how the devs decided to share them.

And yes, keeping (either basic or additional) content hostage of a connection check is precisely DRM.

The sad thing is, as we move towards game streaming, then all games will have DRM and require constant internet connection by default.

At that point gaming will become such a disposable thing that you might as well just pirate everything and have a much easier time.
 
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GHG

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Why are there even apologists for this?

If you want the version with DRM it's available on every other PC storefront.

GOG is the one place where you can get access to a catalogue of games that are 100% DRM free. This has no business being on that store.
 

Miles708

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Why are there even apologists for this?

If you want the version with DRM it's available on every other PC storefront.

GOG is the one place where you can get access to a catalogue of games that are 100% DRM free. This has no business being on that store.

In addition to that: what on earth did cross on CDPR HQ's mind, to even allow something totally opposite to their entire selling proposition.
 
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GHG

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In addition to that: what on earth did cross on CDPR HQ's mind, to even allow something totally opposite to their entire selling proposition.

Probably the same thing that compelled them to release CP2077 in the condition that they did.

They've been making a lot of uncharacteristic decisions of late.
 
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Syphon Filter

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Why are there even apologists for this?

If you want the version with DRM it's available on every other PC storefront.

GOG is the one place where you can get access to a catalogue of games that are 100% DRM free. This has no business being on that store.
Agreed. btw there is another 100% drm free store called zoom platform.
 
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DrAspirino

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But you can't. Single player progress unlocks require internet connection.
You actually can. In fact, there are YouTube tutorials on how to beat the game with the basic items (you know...with no unlocks).

Also, you can't call DRM when a game is DESIGNED to be played online in the first place.

Different thing is when the game is already finished and THEN you throw online drm or online key-checks or bullshit like that.

The sad part about Hitman it's not it's DRM (or lack of), but that IO has effectively put a single-player game with half of the content on their servers BY DESIGN, so people can't ever play fully offline or even pirate it without losing some significant amount of content.

And you shouldn't be surprised when other developers start putting BS like that on their single-player games: sure, they'll technically won't have any DRM because there will be no need for it: either play online for 100% of the content or get out and enjoy only half of the game.

And I'll be glad to eat crow if other developers with important single-player games (cough ROCKSTAR cough) won't follow through.
 

lils

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Also, you can't call DRM when a game is DESIGNED to be played online in the first place.

what additional functionality is available while playing online that wouldn't be possible offline?

if the only reason for it being always online is DRM, it's DRM.
 
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DrAspirino

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what additional functionality is available while playing online that wouldn't be possible offline?
IO story-mode challenges, community created challenges and escalations, elusive targets, leaderboards, map challenges, different unlockable items added AFTER the game was released, missions released AFTER the game was released (in Hitman 1 and 2 there are a bunch of them), etc.

The game is constantly getting new content and updates (I mean, this year alone we've had various elusive targets and community challenges), so I open the game at least once a week in order to get up to date on what's happening in it.

Heck, I still remember that in Hitman 1, there was an update where IO actually CHANGED part of a mission in order to increase the difficulty thanks to community feedback. It's that dynamic.
 
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Dr.D00p

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Well I for one found it intensely annoying having to cancel my pirated GOG download of this game at the 78% mark....bloody inconsiderate to mislead people like this.

That was Irony, for those too dense to get it :messenger_beaming:
 

jshackles

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Community created challenges and escalations, elusive targets, leaderboards, map challenges, different unlockable items added AFTER the game was released, missions released AFTER the game was released (in Hitman 1 and 2 there are a bunch of them), etc.

The game is constantly getting new content and updates (I mean, this year alone we've had various elusive targets and community challenges), so I open the game at least once a week in order to get up to date on what's happening in it.

Heck, I still remember that in Hitman 1, there was an update where IO actually CHANGED part of a mission in order to increase the difficulty thanks to community feedback. It's that dynamic.
That's cool and all - but what's stopping IO from including all of that extra content and fixes in a patch? Tons of games (even games on GOG) have patches that add new levels, new weapons, and balance fixes to games after they've been released.

The only thing you mention that would actually require an online connection is leaderboards. And I think this release would have been fine if that were the only (optional) feature that required an internet connection.
 

DrAspirino

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That's cool and all - but what's stopping IO from including all of that extra content and fixes in a patch? Tons of games (even games on GOG) have patches that add new levels, new weapons, and balance fixes to games after they've been released.

The only thing you mention that would actually require an online connection is leaderboards. And I think this release would have been fine if that were the only (optional) feature that required an internet connection.
Have you ever played Hitman? Seriously?

Elusive targets are targets that appear ONCE, for a short amount of time (usually a week) and then are cut of from the game and server. You can only play those missions ONCE (hence the name "elusive targets") and if you fail them, you can't play them ever again (because that attempt is stored on the server).

Community challenges are added almost every single week and sometimes they are modified in order to be more difficult. There's also the multiplayer challenges mode, where you actually compete with other players in killing a target. Players escalations are also sometimes live, while other times are never updated; however, all of player escalations rely on being stored on the server.

Now, Hitman 1 will have no more elusive targets, since the period for them is over. However, all other "live" features are alive and well. Since it has live services, can you call those services DRM? or just live services? Because at least to me, live services are that, and DRM is another thing.
 

jshackles

Gentlemen, we can rebuild it. We have the capability to make the world's first enhanced store. Steam will be that store. Better than it was before.
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Have you ever played Hitman? Seriously?

Elusive targets are targets that appear ONCE, for a short amount of time (usually a week) and then are cut of from the game and server. You can only play those missions ONCE (hence the name "elusive targets") and if you fail them, you can't play them ever again (because that attempt is stored on the server).

Community challenges are added almost every single week and sometimes they are modified in order to be more difficult. There's also the multiplayer challenges mode, where you actually compete with other players in killing a target. Players escalations are also sometimes live, while other times are never updated; however, all of player escalations rely on being stored on the server.

Now, Hitman 1 will have no more elusive targets, since the period for them is over. However, all other "live" features are alive and well. Since it has live services, can you call those services DRM? or just live services? Because at least to me, live services are that, and DRM is another thing.
Yes, I've played Hitman before. I didn't play it seriously, because stuff like elusive targets pissed me off.

Multiplayer challenge modes? Co-op assassinations? Sure I could see that being "locked" behind having to be online. Just make the rewards for those challenges available offline as well. Why would elusive targets need to be stored on the server though? Just to prevent people from playing them over and over again? The beauty of GOG is that you own the game and you can play it how you like. If I want to play a "one time only" level, fail, edit my save, and play it again - why should anyone care? If you're going to make the argument that it takes away from the purity of the experience then this game never belonged on GOG to begin with.

The problem, in this case, is that these so called live services are blurring the line of DRM. Obviously this game was designed around a lot of server-side features - in a way it's not too dissimilar from an MMO. What if Blizzard released World of Warcraft on GOG, but since all of the game's NPCs, monsters, and merchants were all stored server-side the only thing you could do with the game is create a character and walk around an empty world? Don't you think people would be similarly pissed off? You could make the argument that "no, you don't need to connect to their servers because you could technically take your level 1 character and walk to the end of the game and watch the credits roll" (with a link to a Youtube video of someone doing just that) but obviously it's not the same experience. And while it's technically not DRM in the traditional sense, it's effectively DRM because it requires users to create an account and be online at all times. Most importantly, if the servers ever go offline, you now have an essentially defective product.
 

YeulEmeralda

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Single player campaign should ALWAYS be playable without an internet connection or account.

Keep online away from offline. Now get off my lawn!
 
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