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Google is a threat to democracy

autoduelist

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Tim Pool goes into a deep dive with lots of backing evidence.

Without getting into that, I would argue it is self evident that the search algorithms that determine search results for the vast majority of a nation will, by their very nature, influence public opinion. Think of any top level search, for example, on any controversial issue, from gun rights to abortion, and how the algorithm determines what does and doesn't appear on the first page is vitally important.

Imho, we've reached the point where this needs to be discussed in a very public manner. I don't think there is any easy answer, possibly no answer at all.
 

zeorhymer

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Nov 9, 2013
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I watched that and I didn't realize someone was talking about it way back in 2013. It's not surprising that none of the left biased media outlets are talking about it since Google/Twitter lines up with their interests. Probably a good test is to have a fresh PC and just go on YouTube/Google without signing in and just type hot button topics like abortion, guns, police, etc and see how many types of results you get and in what order. I bet a lot of them will be from left biased sources on the top, while right biased ones will be on the next page.
 

Arkage

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So is this just a backup excuse if Trump loses in 2020? Blame Google? Because there are Americans out there still making up their mind about Trump? Lol.
 
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epicnemesis

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So is this just a backup excuse if Trump loses in 2020? Blame Google? Because there are Americans out there still making up their mind about Trump? Lol.
This isn’t the Super Bowl dude. Who gives a shit about excuses, it’s making sure the process for electing government officials, or reduced further; the process to finding fair information on a topic, is untainted.
 

crowbrow

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It's a giant con. They say look over here the Russians are trying to influence the American people. All the while corporations are influencing the American people with social media from within and that's totally cool? Hypocrisy is a prerequisite to being a Democrat.

“Today’s big tech companies have too much power,” a Warren aide said. “They’ve bulldozed competition, used our private information for profit, and tilted the playing field against everyone else. And in the process, they have hurt small businesses and stifled innovation. Elizabeth’s plan would help ensure tech giants do not crowd out potential competitors, smother the next generation of great tech companies, and wield so much power that they can undermine our democracy.”
 

llien

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Feb 1, 2017
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It's not only about Google, most of our Californian Overlords have leverage over public opinion are will likely try to use it.

I think Trump is aware of severity of the problem. I'm hoping we see action on this before 2020.
1) What could be done about it is far from obvious.
2) There isn't enough time.
 

TTOOLL

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Mar 22, 2012
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Algorithms are just a way for big companies to control what you see and don't see. You should avoid them as much as you can. People think it's practical but when you realize you are living in a bubble made by Google/facebook/instagram/twitter etc.

It is dangerous to be controlled by people that write these algorithms.
 

danielberg

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i mean took long enough i guess banning mitch mcconnels campaingn account (while #massacremitch was trending) because they posted a video of far leftists threatening them was a wake up call even to the most vapid gop never trumper imaginable.
Fuck them all they made their beds no amount of backpeddling and "trust us we learned our lesson" will put the genie back in the bottle, they abused their power for political reasons so they can never ever be trusted again with that. Time to split them up or put some outside control over it.
 
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DunDunDunpachi

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In a free society, Google becomes a threat to its own future profits. We should examine what measure of government interference has allowed Google to reach this point in the first place (hint: Article 230, which is apparently being tackled as we speak) instead of worrying about how to "take them down".

I'm more of a "pull out the exact Jenga block to make it all fall down" sort of person, not a top-down "the gov't needs to impose these regulations to keep us all safe" sort of person.
 

llien

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Algorithms are just a way for big companies to control what you see and don't see. You should avoid them as much as you can.
Nah.

AI and "algorithms" where used to, given what google knows about you, which content would be of interest to you.
It is completely apolitical.
To woke google's dismay.
What they are trying to do is adjust it, to demote wrongthink.
 

danielberg

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Nah.

AI and "algorithms" where used to, given what google knows about you, which content would be of interest to you.
It is completely apolitical.
To woke google's dismay.
What they are trying to do is adjust it, to demote wrongthink.
true but i also point out yeah the algo can be completely apolitical, but the people who wrote it and maintain/update it are most likely not.
 
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llien

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true but i also point out yeah the algo can be completely apolitical, but the people who wrote it and maintain/update it are most likely not.
"find what people like" cannot be political.
They will have to artificially slap on "but exclude things that look like this" (which will have negative impact on "what people like' mind you, but that beside the point).

In other words, algorithm itself is not "fixable", but (with quite an effort) one could introduce hand made "artificialy downrate the following kind of results".
 
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Teletraan1

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So is this just a backup excuse if Trump loses in 2020? Blame Google? Because there are Americans out there still making up their mind about Trump? Lol.
Yet you propagated that Trump "won" due to a marginal contributing factor of some social media advertising which turned out to amount to nothing. Using your retarded logic were Americans still making up their minds about Hillary, a career politician, secretary of state, former first lady? I guess a backup excuse is better than being your primary excuse. You have zero self awareness.

Trump "won" the election due to a paltry 80K people in three states out of over 130 million votes. The chances of a marginal contributing factor giving the win to Trump is pretty high.
 

psorcerer

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In other words, algorithm itself is not "fixable", but (with quite an effort) one could introduce hand made "artificialy downrate the following kind of results".
It's not that simple.
Internet is left leaning. Mainly because of age of the users.
So, search results problem can be reduced to a problem of red and blue balls in an urn.
Algorithm needs to draw the correct ball depending on who's sitting behind the screen.
If we have 51% blue and 49% red users, the best strategy for an algorithm is to always fetch blue. (do the math, it is the best strategy)
Therefore to make things more even they need to introduce corrections. Otherwise it becomes all blue pretty quickly...
 
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crowbrow

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They will have to artificially slap on "but exclude things that look like this" (which will have negative impact on "what people like' mind you, but that beside the point).
Hmmm but that's basically what they do. If they build in the exclusion in the algorithm then the algorithm itself is biased. I mean the algorithm is designed by humans after all. For example an algorithm could undermine search terms when those terms are used by certain sources often and that isn't based on "what people like". That would be a procedure that the algorithm would have built in to bias results for example.
 

dragonfart28

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Yes, China also figured out how dangerous Google is to democracy a long time ago. 🙄
 
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llien

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Hmmm but that's basically what they do. If they build in the exclusion in the algorithm then the algorithm itself is biased. I mean the algorithm is designed by humans after all. For example an algorithm could undermine search terms when those terms are used by certain sources often and that isn't based on "what people like". That would be a procedure that the algorithm would have built in to bias results for example.
What to exclude is CONTENT and is not part of the algorithm.
For algorithm to be biased it needs to naturally target conservatives, in which case woke google wouldn't need to act to "fix" it to begin with.

Internet is left leaning. Mainly because of age of the users.
I doubt it.
Young are apolitical.
And social justice cult is not a world wide phenomenon.
 
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danielberg

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Yes, China also figured out how dangerous Google is to democracy a long time ago. 🙄
Uhhm google themselves revealed as much, "good censore" and all that or workers outright stating they are doing everything they can to prevent trump, they think its their "duty" to meddle in the election to end trump.
There is no difference in google doing censorship favors for china and google doing censorship favors for the democratic party to kill trump its the exact same thing, you just dont give a shit about google sucking democrat elites dick because its in your sides favor.
 
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crowbrow

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What to exclude is CONTENT and is not part of the algorithm.
For algorithm to be biased it needs to naturally target conservatives, in which case woke google wouldn't need to act to "fix" it to begin with.


I doubt it.
Young are apolitical.
And social justice cult is not a world wide phenomenon.
But if the algorithm behaves differently depending on the content then the algorithm itself has a built in bias. I mean you could bias it in other ways than just filtering content before feeding in the algorithm. So, it is a technicality, but the algorithm itself can have biased functions.
 

TTOOLL

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Nah.

AI and "algorithms" where used to, given what google knows about you, which content would be of interest to you.
It is completely apolitical.
To woke google's dismay.
What they are trying to do is adjust it, to demote wrongthink.
Well, it's not only politics...I just google VW T-cross and the very first result was an ad for the Jeep Compass, the second was also an ad but this time for the T-cross. Tell me this is not manipulation.
 

CaptainAnchovie

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Aug 22, 2018
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Corporations, faceless, nationless, self-serving entities are undoubtedly the greatest threat to any nation, let alone Democracy.
They push for whatever is in their Corporate interests, completely disregarding the interests of their host nation. The ultimate expression of making GDP and economic growth the axiom by which all decisions are made.
Corporations are not even the sum of the people working within them, much like a government, their interest is survival and evolution. If survival meant liquidating and replacing all the current staff, CEO, Owners, it would.
Best option currently is to leverage the power Nation-States still have and force corporations to anchor themselves to a nation so their interests are forced to be tied to a Nation-State rather than being an independent Global conglomerate capable of destroying nations that might be at odds with them.
 
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Joe T.

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Eric Schmidt, former Google CEO/chairman, inadvertently shone a light on it in 2010 when he said "There is what I call the creepy line. The Google policy on a lot of things is to get right up to the creepy line and not cross it."


There's apparently a documentary about this topic released last year that I'll have to get around to watching soon (Youtube trailer). Jordan Peterson's featured in it, which probably explains why I've seen very little talk about it.

It's alarming when you stop to give Google and the other social media giants some thought because even the search results you never click wind up making an impact, however nominal, so when someone's sitting on the fence trying to decide which election candidate to vote for and negative stories keep coming up even when they're looking for something completely unrelated it's going to leave a mark, especially over the course of months/years. Trump's hoping people are waking up to the blatant spin on the news, but that's not a bet I'd be willing to make given how willingly people swallowed hoaxes this year alone. The 2020 Dem front runner launched his campaign on the most easily debunked hoax out there.

Someone brought up searchconservative.com in another thread as a means of filtering through liberal sources, which sounds great in theory. In practice, however, I'm not sure it does anything to help the democratic process. I ran a test search to see how well it worked using "epstein clinton" and the first result was from a right wing source alright, The Daily Wire, except it was a May 2016 hit piece on Trump using a completely unfounded claim in its headline.


As Washington Post reported in 2016, "6 in 10 of you will share this link without reading it."
 

Texas Pride

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“Today’s big tech companies have too much power,” a Warren aide said. “They’ve bulldozed competition, used our private information for profit, and tilted the playing field against everyone else. And in the process, they have hurt small businesses and stifled innovation. Elizabeth’s plan would help ensure tech giants do not crowd out potential competitors, smother the next generation of great tech companies, and wield so much power that they can undermine our democracy.”


She used fake Native American ancestry to get ahead in life so I have no doubt she'd say or do whatever she has to in order to get elected. If you were trying to point me to a Democrat who isn't a hypocrite try again.
 

Horns

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I am open to discussing this. I am not open to this occurring under the current administration. Trump is a liar. He doesn't respect facts or science. He's dishonest when he attacks the press. This administration has no respect for rights or existing laws. In all likelihood he is facing jail when he's out of office.

There's zero chance he or his administration should ever be allowed to control information. I have no doubt they will attempt to. The adults will sort it out when he's long gone.
 

Boss Mog

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CeroFrio996

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This isn’t the Super Bowl dude. Who gives a shit about excuses, it’s making sure the process for electing government officials, or reduced further; the process to finding fair information on a topic, is untainted.
If that were the case we'd have publicly funded elections at all levels and 100% financial transparency from our candidates.

Then both Google and the Koch brothers can go fuck off.
 

Barnabot

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true but i also point out yeah the algo can be completely apolitical, but the people who wrote it and maintain/update it are most likely not.

What’s stopping Google from doing a similar thing?
 
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