• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Gotta Catch Em' All? Not anymore!

Whataburger

Milk Connoisseur
Feb 2, 2018
4,300
2,760
610


Apparently you will only be able to transfer SOME (very few) of your team in the new Pokemon title due to Gamefreak's incompetence. For us people that have trained a full team or put time into our previous games this seems like a big fuck you. Rather than work on bringing us something previous games have done they gave us a giant fuck you. Let's Go had the excuse of it being "a remake" and "not a mainstream title" so people didn't give em shit then. Apparently the Pokemon company made a new policy that goes against the slogan "Gotta Catch Em' All!" by saying newer games will only allow certain Pokemons from making it to newer titles.

Thoughts?
 
  • Triggered
  • Like
Reactions: ~Fake and Bryank75

Psydonk

Member
Jun 17, 2015
77
59
220
Honestly I just wish Nintendo kind of quietly let another studio *coughmonolithsoftcough* do a "spinoff" Pokemon game that was just legitimately better than the actual Pokemon games, maybe still straight up Pokemon RPG but experimenting with a more Ni No Kuni/Yokai Watch Real Time Battle System or something to justify it being a "spinoff" and Gamefreak allowing it.

Gamefreak have always been incompetent, from the numerous game breaking bugs of Red and Blue to the atrocious bloated codebase of G/S to the unoptimised area unique model duplication of the 3D games. The problem is you have a borderline D-grade studio who struck gold with Pokemon and they've never really improved their talent or ability in the time since and they don't really need to because Pokemon is basically a money printing machine. Just look at Level-5 and Yokai Watch in comparison, almost the same amount of mons, but upgraded every generation with far better graphics and animation work than Game Freak has ever put out.

Honestly look at the animation work on non-Gamefreak Pokemon games like Stadium or Battle Revolution, blows these newer Pokemon games out of the water. They've had assets for essentially all the Pokemon since 2013, what are they doing?
 

Whataburger

Milk Connoisseur
Feb 2, 2018
4,300
2,760
610
Honestly I just wish Nintendo kind of quietly let another studio *coughmonolithsoftcough* do a "spinoff" Pokemon game that was just legitimately better than the actual Pokemon games, maybe still straight up Pokemon RPG but experimenting with a more Ni No Kuni/Yokai Watch Real Time Battle System or something to justify it being a "spinoff" and Gamefreak allowing it.

Gamefreak have always been incompetent, from the numerous game breaking bugs of Red and Blue to the atrocious bloated codebase of G/S to the unoptimised area unique model duplication of the 3D games. The problem is you have a borderline D-grade studio who struck gold with Pokemon and they've never really improved their talent or ability in the time since and they don't really need to because Pokemon is basically a money printing machine. Just look at Level-5 and Yokai Watch in comparison, almost the same amount of mons, but upgraded every generation with far better graphics and animation work than Game Freak has ever put out.

Honestly look at the animation work on non-Gamefreak Pokemon games like Stadium or Battle Revolution, blows these newer Pokemon games out of the water. They've had assets for essentially all the Pokemon since 2013, what are they doing?
They are doing this because of "quality" of each Pokemon. But they are just lazy. Look at the optimization and fps on Moon. They are already using those assets from Moon in the Eevee game and charging for a new bank system though so lol. Keep in mind this company is worth 90 Billion dollars, they could easily hire a non hack team to either do this "quality work" for them or help.
 

DunDunDunpachi

Patient MembeR
Apr 18, 2018
11,142
19,656
1,105
USA
dunpachi.com
Hang on a sec. I thought Pokemon Bank was their answer to this issue.

To be fair, I can understand them not wanting to recreate the entire roster for the "first" 3D Pokemon game on Switch. Maybe in subsequent titles (read: when they've modeled more of the Pokemon in the engine) they will have forward compatibility.
 
  • Thoughtful
Reactions: Whitesnake

blly155

Member
Aug 3, 2014
9,653
1,263
520
I kinda get it...the amount of Pokémon now is insane. That's a lot of work bringing them all over.

Been saying it for years they need to cut down the amount of Pokémon but I don't agree with this handpicking.

If Raichu ain't in the game then I aint buying it. He's my favourite Pokémon
 

Whataburger

Milk Connoisseur
Feb 2, 2018
4,300
2,760
610
Hang on a sec. I thought Pokemon Bank was their answer to this issue.

To be fair, I can understand them not wanting to recreate the entire roster for the "first" 3D Pokemon game on Switch. Maybe in subsequent titles (read: when they've modeled more of the Pokemon in the engine) they will have forward compatibility.
No. From what I gather the new company policy literally says there won't ever be another game that lets you have all the Pokemon. The new Pokemon Bank will not let you transfer Pokemon OR BACK if they aren't compatible with said game. Unless they go back on their word on the update title (Mega Sword?) next year that let us use our old mons you can only play with what is currently compatible/on the list.
I kinda get it...the amount of Pokémon now is insane. That's a lot of work bringing them all over.

Been saying it for years they need to cut down the amount of Pokémon but I don't agree with this handpicking.

If Raichu ain't in the game then I aint buying it. He's my favourite Pokémon
It isn't though? The models barely have any animations as is.

Raichu is on Let's Go. All the Pokemon there can carry over I think. (even though it is not on the list?)
 
Last edited:

DunDunDunpachi

Patient MembeR
Apr 18, 2018
11,142
19,656
1,105
USA
dunpachi.com
No. From what I gather the new company policy literally says there won't ever be another game that lets you have all the Pokemon. The new Pokemon Bank will not let you transfer Pokemon OR BACK if they aren't compatible with said game. Unless they go back on their word on the update title (Mega Sword?) next year that let us use our old mons you can only play with what is currently compatible/on the list.
So we've truly reached a cutoff point.

Okay.

 

Psydonk

Member
Jun 17, 2015
77
59
220
They claimed it was a balancing issue to bring them all in. Honestly I think they probably just fucked up and rushed the Development like usual. It's pretty funny though now there is really no excuse for the animations and texture work to be so bad.
 

TheDuskwalker

Member
Feb 1, 2018
1,402
1,431
460
Incredibly lame, but depends on who they pick. If fan favorites are cut (let's just say Ralts line since not confirmed yet) yet tons of the more lamer ones are left that would be some bull.
I kinda get it...the amount of Pokémon now is insane. That's a lot of work bringing them all over.

Been saying it for years they need to cut down the amount of Pokémon but I don't agree with this handpicking.

If Raichu ain't in the game then I aint buying it. He's my favourite Pokémon
Raichu was in the reveal trailer. I don't think you have to ever worry on that, Alolan Raichu on the other hand......
 
  • Like
Reactions: Whataburger
Jan 9, 2018
789
836
400
Who cares at this point. Catching them all was made trivial with online trading and it's not an accomplishment anymore.
 

mooshie78

Gold Member
Aug 20, 2008
9,966
680
1,030
I’m a very casual player of Pokémon. Only played Y, Go and Let’s Go Pikachu currently (needed somenthing to play one handed due to surgery on my left arm). I’m 40 and had a Gameboy growing up but just never got into Pokémon growing up for whatever reason.

I get what a huge let down this is for diehard fans, but for me it’s honestly a plus. I already get overwhelmed trying to remember strengths and weaknesses with even the limited Let’s Go line up and never really got into all the catch them all, farm for shinies stuff. Y I dropped after beating the Elite 4 and I imagine I’ll do the same with Let’s Go and Sword.

But probably a bad move given the backlash from the base online though, but I’m more likely to buy it now.
 

ShikabaneHime13

Gold Member
Mar 11, 2014
731
7
465
Washington, DC
www.facebook.com
I kinda get it...the amount of Pokémon now is insane. That's a lot of work bringing them all over.

Been saying it for years they need to cut down the amount of Pokémon but I don't agree with this handpicking.

If Raichu ain't in the game then I aint buying it. He's my favourite Pokémon
We’ve already seen Raichu in the game trailers, so he seems like a safe bet of being present

I think people need to sit back and await more details. We still have 5 months until the games come out.
 
Last edited:
Nov 13, 2016
1,470
1,299
395
There's a few ways to look at this. Obviously, since a thing called Pokémon Bank exists (It costs money too, right?) you would think they'd be able to support all Pokémon in the game. That makes sense. Them cutting some Pokémon seems kind of lazy.

On the other hand, I would probably treat every Pokémon game as a separate adventure. In every game you play a different person and you're in a different region with different Pokémon. That makes sense to me. Not all 1000 Pokémon being in a game doesn't bother me that much.

Now I say this as someone who's by no means a hardcore Pokémon fan. Perhaps if I'd been playing these games for the last ten years, catching Pokémon I was expecting to transfer to new games going forward, I'd think differently.
 

wzy

Member
Dec 29, 2018
372
362
265
I think what should really happen with this series is it needs to expand temporally instead of geographically. Go back in time, go into the future, whatever. Do a pre-historic Pokemon or a medieval Pokemon or Pokemon Space or something. This solves the issue of needing to preserve a massive list of mostly irrelevant monsters that no one really gives a shit about anyway, and lets you launch a new roster and new gameplay mechanics without worrying about series continuity. You could even have a smaller, more specific roster that emphasizes the ecology of each game and the relationship between humans and monsters throughout the eras; knights jousting from Rapidash, cavemen doing Flintstones shit with Dinosaur pokemon squawking "it's a living" about their job moving boulders around, whatever really. Something other than the region needs to change with new entries but I kind of think it's already too late.
 

theclaw135

Member
Oct 1, 2014
676
96
350
It needs to be considered from a broader perspective. The number of Pokemon will increase exponentially, given enough time.
At an indeterminate point it'll become impractical, even unreasonable, to feature every species that has ever existed in one game.
 
Aug 22, 2018
257
274
250
I kinda get it...the amount of Pokémon now is insane. That's a lot of work bringing them all over.
We're talking about an IP that sells millions of copies with every new entry.
GameFreak could afford to double their staff in order to mitigate the work load required to create the level of quality expected out of a product today. Their staff size would still be anywhere from 1/3 to 1/5 of the size of the teams working on Ubisoft's Assassin's Creed games.
 
May 26, 2011
13,458
2,024
1,005
We're talking about an IP that sells millions of copies with every new entry.
GameFreak could afford to double their staff in order to mitigate the work load required to create the level of quality expected out of a product today. Their staff size would still be anywhere from 1/3 to 1/5 of the size of the teams working on Ubisoft's Assassin's Creed games.
Capt. Anchovies not wrong....


Gamefreak is a stingy bunch of milkers
 

Lanrutcon

Member
Feb 19, 2014
8,061
1,527
575
It needs to be considered from a broader perspective. The number of Pokemon will increase exponentially, given enough time.
At an indeterminate point it'll become impractical, even unreasonable, to feature every species that has ever existed in one game.
It takes them years to release new generations, and the technology keeps up. The entire point of the franchise is collecting Pokemon. It's the absolute core of the IP to the point where they have a paid library service to help you manage your collection. Some of us have Pokemon collections going back close to two decades. We're talking about some of the oldest gaming communities on the planet here with die hard fans spanning generations. Not to mention the fact that they're now going to try and sell us games with LESS features than the ones from the last console at the same or higher prices.

The only people defending this bullshit are the ones who never gave a crap in the first place.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: FStubbs

jadedm17

Member
Sep 24, 2009
3,735
216
710
Florida
We're talking about an IP that sells millions of copies with every new entry.
GameFreak could afford to double their staff in order to mitigate the work load required to create the level of quality expected out of a product today. Their staff size would still be anywhere from 1/3 to 1/5 of the size of the teams working on Ubisoft's Assassin's Creed games.
Exactly, it's a nonsense move for a game so popular that has a key motto of "Gotta Catch Em All".
It could also be because of popularity that this idea is one they'd follow through with : If 99% of those that care buy the game anyways, why should they care?
I've been there since the start and haven't touched the 3DS games, so having no previous Pokemon to bring admit this isn't a personal issue and I'll still buy day one. If it is a personal issue I suggest not doing that as I have with mainline games of other series I truely love; Speak with your wallet
 

~Fake

Member
Dec 20, 2018
2,223
2,019
425
Rio de Janeiro
Serebii/Smogon community gonna make a human shield to defend this as usual. They did with Lets go series, they gonna do again.
I mean, nothing can explain 'why' pokemon games still have shit animations move even with that big jump between 3DS and Nintendo Switch hardware. If you watch the Pokemon Sword/Shield livestream, you'll see the fire pkmn starter using the same ' don't do nothing' animation for double kick, but people keeping thinking this is 'ok',so lets sell at full price, why not?

Gamefreak will probably change the pokemon quote trademark 'Gotta Catch Em' All!' in the name of profit.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Whataburger

ZeroGravity

Member
Dec 5, 2008
13,790
349
995
The most frustrating thing about this to me is that it makes Pokemon games feel disposable. These used to be games that I would play for hundreds of hours because I enjoyed training all sorts of new Pokemon that I could use to battle with friends or online, and then bring forward to the next gen so the whole process would be easier (I'd already have a base of Pokemon that I could jump right in with).

Now? I'll probably just play the main story and ditch it. That fucking sucks. That's not what Pokemon is to me. Why bother spending so much time training Pokemon that I can't even be sure I'll get to use again someday?
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Whataburger
Aug 16, 2012
6,460
442
605
twitter.com
Serebii/Smogon community gonna make a human shield to defend this as usual. They did with Lets go series, they gonna do again.
I mean, nothing can explain 'why' pokemon games still have shit animations move even with that big jump between 3DS and Nintendo Switch hardware. If you watch the Pokemon Sword/Shield livestream, you'll see the fire pkmn starter using the same ' don't do nothing' animation for double kick, but people keeping thinking this is 'ok',so lets sell at full price, why not?

Gamefreak will probably change the pokemon quote trademark 'Gotta Catch Em' All!' in the name of profit.
Serebii himself actually thought Let's Go looked bad but didn't wanna upset Nintendo so he took the L and said it was good. Not a good look if the head of the biggest Pokemon fansite says your game isn't good.

National dex is utterly exhausting to attempt in 2019 so them limiting S/M to Alola dex only didn't bother me and it won't bother me about this either. I think disconnecting this from Pokemon Bank isn't a great idea, but this is the next step up so they won't integrate well.
 

Whataburger

Milk Connoisseur
Feb 2, 2018
4,300
2,760
610
The counters/competitive balance argument is shit as well. So far Togekiss has no hard counters. (based on the list)
 

Saberyoko

Member
Jan 30, 2019
706
404
295
When I though they would leave their confort zone, they come up with that. What reason would people have to buy something they use to transfer between versions if you can't transfer some pokemons to the current Gen? That was a killer move, not just to Sword and Shield but to Home as well. People wouldn't pay for this shit and I'm pretty sure some fans are already canceling their pre-orders over it.

They better make a response about that(even if its just only to clarify) or else they gonna lose support for good.

Who cares at this point. Catching them all was made trivial with online trading and it's not an accomplishment anymore.
Basically everyone except you.

It was never about catching all. It's about catching the ones you like. That happens in every damn gen and people move their precious pokemons from one to another gen.
 
Last edited:

iconmasterX

Member
Jan 27, 2018
3,179
4,288
580
Not knowing the games, I'm finding this report very confusing.

Galar is a new region in Sword/Shield, right? On the one hand the article claims only Pokémon which can be found in the new Gaiar region will be able to be transferred from prior Pokémon games by those players which already caught them. On the other hand, it says "here are the confirmed - so far - Pokémon from other regions that will be transferable through Pokémon Home separated by generation."

So which is it? Galar Pokémon only, or certain other Pokémon besides?

Either way, I think it's asking a lot of the devs to insist they keep allowing you to carry your personal pet critters through from game to game forever when there are hundreds of them. But that's just me.

Edit: from the horse's mouth -- with the Pokémon getting more graphically advanced they're just not going to include all 800+ in the game. Seems reasonable to me. And maybe there's the potential for adding more through DLC.

 
Last edited:

Saberyoko

Member
Jan 30, 2019
706
404
295
Either way, I think it's asking a lot of the devs to insist they keep allowing you to carry your personal pet critters through from game to game forever when there are hundreds of them. But that's just me.

Edit: from the horse's mouth -- with the Pokémon getting more graphically advanced they're just not going to include all 800+ in the game. Seems reasonable to me. And maybe there's the potential for adding more through DLC.

I dunno if you're serious or not. Either way if the problem is the lack of time or is due to heavy work for a small company team, they can aways delay the game. Sure people will get mad, but at least this would put more time to fix and tune things up. Also it's not like Gamefreak is breaking any bondaries in terms of graphical evoltution. You're giving way too much of credit to them.
 
Last edited:

Whataburger

Milk Connoisseur
Feb 2, 2018
4,300
2,760
610
Not knowing the games, I'm finding this report very confusing.

Galar is a new region in Sword/Shield, right? On the one hand the article claims only Pokémon which can be found in the new Gaiar region will be able to be transferred from prior Pokémon games by those players which already caught them. On the other hand, it says "here are the confirmed - so far - Pokémon from other regions that will be transferable through Pokémon Home separated by generation."

So which is it? Galar Pokémon only, or certain other Pokémon besides?

Either way, I think it's asking a lot of the devs to insist they keep allowing you to carry your personal pet critters through from game to game forever when there are hundreds of them. But that's just me.

Edit: from the horse's mouth -- with the Pokémon getting more graphically advanced they're just not going to include all 800+ in the game. Seems reasonable to me. And maybe there's the potential for adding more through DLC.

That is the same video I posted before which is getting criticism across the web. There is a reason people are ticked off. No, people aren't asking for much of the devs. The previous Pokemon games pokemon renders were future proof in that they were obviously renders done for a more powerful console. (they were huge and they ran like shit on the 3DS' hardware but perfectly emulated.) So the work was done.

These games let you have over 800 pokemon in a 3DS cart. They are giving people a new form of Pokemon bank well no charging more like. That lets you store your previous pokemon but will be unable to be transferred to the new game (the whole point of said service) unless they have been ok'd by what they decided to let you carry over ie what they decided to program in game. They aren't a small company. They have more money than some nations, the graphics are barely passable even for a Switch game and they can't even give us the chance to play with our favorites. The heart of the entire games was just that and what ZeroGravity said
The most frustrating thing about this to me is that it makes Pokemon games feel disposable. These used to be games that I would play for hundreds of hours because I enjoyed training all sorts of new Pokemon that I could use to battle with friends or online, and then bring forward to the next gen so the whole process would be easier (I'd already have a base of Pokemon that I could jump right in with).

Now? I'll probably just play the main story and ditch it. That fucking sucks. That's not what Pokemon is to me. Why bother spending so much time training Pokemon that I can't even be sure I'll get to use again someday?
With this the series becomes about as souless as the new CoD or whatever ubisoft releases yearly. Also he already said there won't be any form of dlc for this game. It is fine if don't know about the franchise or why people play it, but please read the thread next time. :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: ~Fake and Saberyoko

iconmasterX

Member
Jan 27, 2018
3,179
4,288
580
It is fine if don't know about the franchise or why people play it, but please read the thread next time. :)
I managed to read the full article and watch the relevant portion of the video. I do see that some of my points were already made in this thread. The point is, I tried!

I put in a GameFreak level of effort
 
  • LOL
Reactions: Whataburger

BTHR Zero X

Member
Mar 27, 2012
911
61
630
Since Ruby and Sapphire in 2002, I have been building my collection being in the UK I have been limited to getting Legendary's as well Nintendo is either Japan or America Happy and we get screwed.

So after 17 Years and having a Complete Dex up to Sun and Moon (Need Ultra Sun/Moon) for them to turn around and say well all that collecting we wanted you to do doesn't mean a thing now. That is a big slap in the face,

Fuck Nintendo and Game Freak on this one.

They are just trying to rush the release and not willing to optimism the game for these Pokemon.

As for Pokemon Home, that's great I can put over 800 Pokemon in it to sit there and gather dust as they can't even be moved back or to another game....


This is an idiotic move and those defending it are just as bad.
 
Aug 16, 2012
6,460
442
605
twitter.com
Christ... people are defending this? For real?
What next? 'Will sell millions anyway' argument?
Gamefreak have been making bad decisions since 2013. I'm sorry I'm not really shook by this one. I'm more interested in if the game isn't a piece of garbage but after seeing that double kick animation it's already worrying.
 

Inviusx

Member
Jan 4, 2016
1,085
502
385
They would need to redo the models and balance over 800 pokemon right? I don't blame them to be honest.
 

Inviusx

Member
Jan 4, 2016
1,085
502
385
The Models shown are the same as the ones from Sun and Moon and Pokemon Go/Let's Go
I understand that it just seems that at a certain point there would need to be a cut off right? Just from a logistical standpoint it sounds like managing that would be a nightmare.

Gran turismo went through a similar transition from GT6 to GT Sport where almost 1000 cars were cut because the old models had been kept around since GT4 or PS2, this meant that GT Sport only launched with 150 cars compared to almost 1300.

It has hard to deal with it at first but quality over quantity is always the best decision in the long run.
 

BTHR Zero X

Member
Mar 27, 2012
911
61
630
I understand that it just seems that at a certain point there would need to be a cut off right? Just from a logistical standpoint it sounds like managing that would be a nightmare.

Gran turismo went through a similar transition from GT6 to GT Sport where almost 1000 cars were cut because the old models had been kept around since GT4 or PS2, this meant that GT Sport only launched with 150 cars compared to almost 1300.

It has hard to deal with it at first but quality over quantity is always the best decision in the long run.
except these models where re-made for the last games, to be and their words "Future Proof" which they are as they are being reused for SwSh. They have no excuse in terms of models.
 

theclaw135

Member
Oct 1, 2014
676
96
350
Gamefreak have been making bad decisions since 2013. I'm sorry I'm not really shook by this one. I'm more interested in if the game isn't a piece of garbage but after seeing that double kick animation it's already worrying.
Gen 6 was a horrendous downgrade in storytelling quality. Several of its legendaries have little to no lore relevant to the journey through Kalos.
Even the anime put more effort into Pokemon like Zygarde, Hoopa, and Volcanion.

except these models where re-made for the last games, to be and their words "Future Proof" which they are as they are being reused for SwSh. They have no excuse in terms of models.
For now. The more distant future is the dilemma. They'll have to redo thousands of models every few generations, to avoid the appearance of franchise stagnation.
 
Jul 6, 2015
3,236
163
375
I understand that it just seems that at a certain point there would need to be a cut off right? Just from a logistical standpoint it sounds like managing that would be a nightmare.

Gran turismo went through a similar transition from GT6 to GT Sport where almost 1000 cars were cut because the old models had been kept around since GT4 or PS2, this meant that GT Sport only launched with 150 cars compared to almost 1300.

It has hard to deal with it at first but quality over quantity is always the best decision in the long run.
They're games sell tens of millions, they have no excuse. Also a big selling point of the series isn't your cars carrying over from game to game and trading cars.
 
Aug 16, 2012
6,460
442
605
twitter.com
I mean I doubt they will try to fix the franchise stagnation.
They could if they wanted to. They just churn out games now with gens being 3 years apart and the games themselves being unfinished as you reach the final stages of them.

If Monolith wasn't attached to Zelda while doing their own thing I'd suggest they could direct Pokemon into a bolder direction with Gamefreak but it won't happen.