Gran Turismo 5 Prologue The Official Thread of Glorious Cockpit View

Yoshichan

And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
Sep 1, 2006
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Apex said:
Tire screeching on Prologue sound pretty close to this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhAPFOeofMM&
That's them!
kenta said:
For what it's worth, I agree with you (at least based on the GT5P demo). I use a 22" Samsung monitor which makes every other game look perfectly fine but the GTs on PS3 just look terrible. I have no idea how those off-screen shots posted above (edit: on the last page) were achieved, I just know the game looks distractingly ugly
Ugly... ugly.
 

kenta

Has no PEINS
Jan 27, 2005
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Seiken said:
Ugly... ugly.
Yes. But I have learned from past experience and from the past page to just not go into details about it since everyone is so quick to label trolls and call for bans. Heaven forbid legitimate criticisms are levied against an anticipated title
 

Yoshichan

And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
Sep 1, 2006
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kenta said:
Yes. But I have learned from past experience and from the past page to just not go into details about it since everyone is so quick to label trolls and call for bans. Heaven forbid legitimate criticisms are levied against an anticipated title
You're saying this game looks ugly. Do I need to remind you?
 

kenta

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Jan 27, 2005
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Ranger X said:
How would you want people to not react on such nitpicking?
I'm not sure I understand that sentence, but I'd prefer the developers to be aware of such issues and hopefully fix them rather than have a legion of rabid foaming fans acting as a buffer on their behalf ready to absorb all criticism so that Kaz's Holy and Most Gracious ears are not defiled with such heresy

Seiken said:
You're saying this game looks ugly. Do I need to remind you?
As I said in the rest of my post, it looks ugly on my monitor (which every other game looks fine on). I said I don't know how those off-screen shots were achieved but they do look gorgeous

Edit: Now that I think of it, those pictures remind me of Myspace angles. They don't show the shadowmap issues, the screen tearing, the frame drops, the track textures, etc. They just have the aliasing under control
 

Yoshichan

And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
Sep 1, 2006
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kenta said:
As I said in the rest of my post, it looks ugly on my monitor (which every other game looks fine on). I said I don't know how those off-screen shots were achieved but they do look gorgeous
Right. I'm happy my game looks just like Apex's :)
 
Jun 23, 2004
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Seiken said:
Right. I'm happy my game looks just like Apex's :)
May I ask what TV you have? And Apex, what are you using to get such wonderful shots? As I mentioned in my post, I'm not getting anywhere near the image quality that you guys are, no matter how much I fiddle with the settings. Buyer's remorse? Not quite yet, GT5:p still looks great.
 
Jun 10, 2004
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kenta said:
I'm not sure I understand that sentence, but I'd prefer the developers to be aware of such issues and hopefully fix them rather than have a legion of rabid foaming fans acting as a buffer on their behalf ready to absorb all criticism so that Kaz's Holy and Most Gracious ears are not defiled with such heresy
Just don't mind people that are exagerating of be funny at them. Do you know where this "white jagged lines" problem might come from to begin with? This looks like a rim light problem. Each part of the cars in GT5 are manually detacheable. See this as multiple meshes stuck together. Now the game also does real-time rim lighting. What happen here i think is that there's some rim lighting that appear around certain pieces where there's some space (like on a real car there's a tiny space between some body pieces) and since the rim lighting isn't prebaked like many game using that effect, you see those white jagged lines as result. There's a downside to each post-processing effect as far as i am concerned. Now for this rim light problem, the more you will increase the resolution, the more it will go away. Also, the higher the sharpness setting of the TV/Monitor will be, the more it will be apparent.

Now what is stupid is when we hear something like that guy saying it makes the game unplayable. This is the kind of ridiculous comment everybody will laugh at. If such tiny thing bothers him that much, he must not be able to play any games out there.

One last thing. Are you guys crying at the other visual imperfections that are having a similar impact? (barely no impact). The distance blur can make the car bleed when there's bright color behind him. The bloom is exagerated compared to real life. The motion blur makes the game more blurry then what you would see with your real life eye since your own eyes causes motion blur. Also, replay are 30fps and its 30fps less smooth then when you play and certainly more choppy than real life.
If you want to play the game of finding graphical flaws (that are normal here on Prologue) your whinning will never end. And please give all other games the same treatment to actually make yourself believeable because all of those games out there are shockfull of graphical imperfections.
 

Yoshichan

And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
Sep 1, 2006
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marvelharvey said:
May I ask what TV you have? And Apex, what are you using to get such wonderful shots? As I mentioned in my post, I'm not getting anywhere near the image quality that you guys are, no matter how much I fiddle with the settings.
Sony kdl 40
 
Dec 8, 2007
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Can we please have some definitive, unprocessed, pics of what GT5P looks like while you are actually playing the game?

i.e. what I am actually going to see on my screen while I am in control of the car I am driving
 

kenta

Has no PEINS
Jan 27, 2005
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Ranger X said:
Just don't mind people that are exagerating of be funny at them. Do you know where this "white jagged lines" problem might come from to begin with? This looks like a rim light problem. Each part of the cars in GT5 are manually detacheable. See this as multiple meshes stuck together. Now the game also does real-time rim lighting. What happen here i think is that there's some rim lighting that appear around certain pieces where there's some space (like on a real car there's a tiny space between some body pieces) and since the rim lighting isn't prebaked like many game using that effect, you see those white jagged lines as result. There's a downside to each post-processing effect as far as i am concerned. Now for this rim light problem, the more you will increase the resolution, the more it will go away. Also, the higher the sharpness setting of the TV/Monitor will be, the more it will be apparent.

Now what is stupid is when we hear something like that guy saying it makes the game unplayable. This is the kind of ridiculous comment everybody will laugh at. If such tiny thing bothers him that much, he must not be able to play any games out there.

One last thing. Are you guys crying at the other visual imperfections that are having a similar impact? (barely no impact). The distance blur can make the car bleed when there's bright color behind him. The bloom is exagerated compared to real life. The motion blur makes the game more blurry then what you would see with your real life eye since your own eyes causes motion blur. Also, replay are 30fps and its 30fps less smooth then when you play and certainly more choppy than real life.
If you want to play the game of finding graphical flaws (that are normal here on Prologue) your whinning will never end. And please give all other games the same treatment to actually make yourself believeable because all of those games out there are shockfull of graphical imperfections.
In order:

- I have an idea of what causes the issue in the door frames and such, yes, it's as if each piece of the car is rendered individually with a light source at a specific location and then placed in the appropriate spot on-screen. Since it doesn't take into account other pieces of the car that should be blocking the light source, you get "rims" that are lit up when they shouldn't be, plus aliasing which exaggerates the issue. I'm not an expert in 3D modeling or rendering by any stretch so that's just what it looks like to me

- I never said the game is unplayable, I played the GT5P demo for hours and hours and hours in spite of all the graphical issues because I love the core gameplay. That will likely never change, I love the game for what it is but my eyes also happen to be really sensitive to the issues present in the game.

- Yes I complain about graphical issues in other games as well, Heavenly Sword is a recent example of a horribly messy game on the technical level. Hot Shots Golf would actually be a more recent example, that game is painful. I see some of these same issues in Burnout Paradise occasionally but they're largely under control and it takes certain circumstances for me to really notice them. But all of these games are still playable and tons of fun and I enjoyed them immensely, it's just that these issues are distracting from the gameplay itself which is what I bemoan

TheIroning said:
Can we please have some definitive, unprocessed, pics of what GT5P looks like while you are actually playing the game?

i.e. what I am actually going to see on my screen while I am in control of the car I am driving
Someone recently posted some direct-feed 720p images from their capture card but I can't remember what thread they were in. Someone will probably link them

Edit: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10297228&postcount=3723 , don't mind the shadowmapping
 
Jun 10, 2004
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I understand you when you speak clearly. I don't feel like calling you a troll. (anyways the "guy" i was talking about wasn't you).
I was just saying that its easy to pass up for a troll when we throw some opinion out there without much explanation. I mean, i wouldn't be surprised people call me a bitch if i speak of the flaws in GT Prologue graphics without making it clear its minor stuff.

All in all, i'm just trying to put the balance back in that motherfucking thread. This game is awesome and let's look a bit more at what it offers and what it does great than all the minor faults we could find.
 

k79

Banned
Jul 6, 2007
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TheIroning said:
Can we please have some definitive, unprocessed, pics of what GT5P looks like while you are actually playing the game?

i.e. what I am actually going to see on my screen while I am in control of the car I am driving
Look a couple of pages back in this thread.

Also, from the link Apex posted earlier:

 
Dec 7, 2005
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marvelharvey said:
May I ask what TV you have? And Apex, what are you using to get such wonderful shots? As I mentioned in my post, I'm not getting anywhere near the image quality that you guys are, no matter how much I fiddle with the settings. Buyer's remorse? Not quite yet, GT5:p still looks great.
Not my pics but the tv is a Sony w3000 1080p.

If you want good pics, pause the tv image, close the lights and give the camera a longer shutter speed(about 1sec or less), low iso(the lower less noise) and flash off. Put the camera on a tripod or an stable surface and select a low timer shooting to avoid blur. You can select manual focus but autofocus should work. For dark images increase the shutter speed.
 
Dec 8, 2007
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kenta said:
Someone recently posted some direct-feed 720p images from their capture card but I can't remember what thread they were in. Someone will probably link them

Edit: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10297228&postcount=3723 , don't mind the shadowmapping
Ah yes, I saw this, but I was referring more to in-game angles, behind or inside the car, as it would be when you are driving

lets be honest though, those screens don't nearly as nice as the majority of what has otherwise been posted, that everyone seems to be creaming their pants over
 

Tiduz

Eurogaime
May 20, 2006
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Thrakier said:
It depends on the tv and the source. I have a Samsung LCD too (in europe it'S 40m86, 1080p) and it's standard sharpness for movies is at 30 (from 100) but this TV doesn't blur the picture, that means, 0 is the sharpenss of the source and everything above 0 is sharpness added by the TV. So for Wii-Games or non HD-material it may be ok to add some sharpness. But for HD-content in general I don't like it. And if you always watched with sharpness at 50 I think it's natural that 0 looks blurry to you, even if it's not blurry at all.
hm, maybe its just me, i got the Samsung LE40M86BD, 1080P, ps3 trough HDMI but i have HDMI Full on, so thats added sharpness as well, i tend to turn of those enhancements in the tv for games, only thing i use is dynamic contrast on low, but if i set it to zero in for example DMC4 everything is extremely blurry, maybe ill take some pics sometime and make a thread to see if its just me :p

and to keep it on topic

Any word if the PAL users can play online with NTSC online with a pal copy?
 
Sep 9, 2006
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TheIroning said:
Ah yes, I saw this, but I was referring more to in-game angles, behind or inside the car, as it would be when you are driving

lets be honest though, those screens don't nearly as nice as the majority of what has otherwise been posted, that everyone seems to be creaming their pants over
From earlier on. Apparently these shots (which have appeared on multiple sites, making me think they're 'official') aren't accurate. Don't expect any alternative direct feed shots from these guys though.
 
Jun 7, 2004
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GauntletFan said:
From earlier on. Apparently these shots (which have appeared on multiple sites, making me think they're 'official') aren't accurate. Don't expect any alternative direct feed shots from these guys though.
The fact that you're actually posting those shots again suggests you haven't played the game as you've claimed.
 
Jun 20, 2006
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Wax Free Vanilla said:
How original.

The is the problem I'm talking about:
http://www.pxhosting.info/uploads/e393d264e5.jpg
http://www.pxhosting.info/uploads/ee47f2f727.jpg
http://www.pxhosting.info/uploads/674e4cb81c.jpg

That shit destroys the beauty of the car - it makes watching the replays unwatchable and playing with an external view a non-start.

Polyphony are not up to next gen standard, maybe they should have cracked on with the PSP version whilst Sony Cambridge developed them some solutions?

You need to do something about your TV. That's almost IGN bad. :)

From my experience GT5:p seems to look it's best on a good 1080p set. Expensive, but almost worth it just for GT.
 
Oct 3, 2007
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On the current TV I have, 46" X-Series Bravia (KDL46X3500), it looks much closer to the Apex pics. Sharpness is set at 60. On the old 40 X-Series Bravia (KDL40X200U) it was the same.
 
Dec 2, 2007
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Even though GT5P is probably the best looking racer out now, you guys are going to need to get used to people saying the in game graphics are a disappointment.

When you've been fed a steady diet of Polyphony and Sony shots from replays, then you finally see the in game graphics, its a disappointment no matter how good it looks.
 
Feb 26, 2007
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Are comparison pics of different games allowed on the GAF? For curiosities sake I took a load of pics of GT5P and PGR4 in the same locations in London, as a direct comparison.

I will post them here if it's acceptable. But not if it's going to start a bitch fest. All pics are 720p off TV and were taken with the same settings, same camera, and within seconds of each other (switching channel to and fro).
 
Sep 9, 2006
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nib95 said:
Are comparison pics of different games allowed on the GAF? For curiosities sake I took a load of pics of GT5P and PGR4 in the same locations in London, as a direct comparison.

I will post them here if it's acceptable. But not if it's going to start a bitch fest. All pics are 720p off TV and were taken with the same settings, same camera, and within seconds of each other (switching channel to and fro).
Please don't, for the sake of the thread.
 
Oct 6, 2007
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nib95 said:
Are comparison pics of different games allowed on the GAF? For curiosities sake I took a load of pics of GT5P and PGR4 in the same locations in London, as a direct comparison.

I will post them here if it's acceptable. But not if it's going to start a bitch fest. All pics are 720p off TV and were taken with the same settings, same camera, and within seconds of each other (switching channel to and fro).
I'd like to see them, but GAF would tear you apart if you did.
 
May 24, 2005
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Yoshichan

And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
Sep 1, 2006
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nib95 said:
But is it allowed? I don't want to get banned over it....
It is allowed, as long as it's not troll biased.
 
Jun 9, 2004
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Are comparison pics of different games allowed on the GAF? For curiosities sake I took a load of pics of GT5P and PGR4 in the same locations in London, as a direct comparison.

I will post them here if it's acceptable. But not if it's going to start a bitch fest.
Post them here, in this thread? That'd be a bad idea, no reason to start stupid comparison pic posts in a thread about one particular game.

If you simply must, start a new thread. The mods will appreciate the help in making the pre-lock bannings as simple as possible, and I'd put the over/under on bans for any PGR/GT5P comparison thread at 4, assuming the thread wasn't locked in under 30 replies. ;)
 
Aug 24, 2006
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Has there been any mention of the lfe or lack thereoff. Have they fixed it for prologue. My bass shaker is very sad. No road rumble. Even crashing into a wall gets very little response. Do to tactile transducers being uncommmon Im guessing I will have to wait and find out.
 
Feb 26, 2007
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This is a like for like comparison. Both London tracks, both day light conditions, same vehicle et all. None of this GT5P race circuit vs PGR4 city track with weather stuff. Like for like here. Taken with the same camera, same settings, within seconds of each other (switching channel to and fro).

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More pictures of the interior in brighter light as to get a better look at how detailed it all is.

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Bear in mind GT5P runs at 1080p and 60fps. PGR4 runs at 720p, 30fps. I believe the car models in GT5P are more than twice as many polygons too. (200k vs 90k.) That said, PGR4 does also have a damage system of sorts where as GT5P does not. Though Yamauichi has mentioned damage will be coming to the full version of GT5. Whether it actually makes it is another question. Screens are from the Japanese version of GT5P, which I've heard looks and runs a tiny bit worse than the EU/US versions.

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Sep 25, 2007
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Thanks for the comparison shots....
First thing to note is GT5P does not run at full 1080p and it does not hold a steady 60FPS
I forget the actual resolution but it is not 1920x1080 it is a lower one scaled. (it might be around 1280x1080 someone can confirm this i am sure)
When I make a first turn on a track with many cars on screen the framerate stutters and worst of all the V-sync problems are really bad.
These shots also show the lighting "problems" in GT5P. The lighting is realistic to the point of most of the london track being way too dark. I understand what they are going for but I have simply stopped driving the track because it is annoying. I understand what the HDR is doing and how in some ways it is very real looking but it just gets too dark. I have heard the US/EU version is more forgiving.

There is no doubt that GT5P is the winner in these shots. There is no doubt that it is the one of the best looking games of all time. There is no doubt that the guys at polyphony are some of the most talented in business.
There is also no doubt for me that the graphical problems such as tearing and lighting bother me more than most any other game.
Why...?
You do not really notice a pimple on a fat chick but on this supermodel of a game it sticks out like a sore thumb.
 
Dec 2, 2007
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The main thing that series of pictures reminded me is I wish developers wouldn't waste time modeling in car dash views.

Any serious player pushing for a good time is going to turn the cockpit view off and go back to the boring old bumper cam so they can see what they're doing.
 

dk_

Member
Feb 5, 2007
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@ PGR4 vs GT5P

Both games look really good, but I think GT has the better lighting and car models. The surroundings (road building) are on par.

I think your TV HDMI brightness is to low, but that's just my impression.
 
Feb 26, 2007
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A bit of information for you guys. I had a chat with one of the lead designers at SCEE Studio London/Soho about Eight Days and The Getaway 3 today.

I made a thread about it on the IGN forums, but not here on the GAF, as to not anger the designer in to me leaking too much of what he told me.

But yea, did you know, GT5P's London track is actually using assets from The Getaway 3? According to the lead designer, The Getaway 3 actually looks a little better than GT5P! And is of a much larger scale. Difference being, The Getaway 3 will run at 720p, 30fps. But apparently due to the sharing of assets, both games look similar in respects to the city assets.
 
Jun 7, 2004
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nib95 said:
One bit of information for you guys. I had a chat with one of the lead designers at SCEE Studio London/Soho about Eight Days and The Getaway 3.

I made a thread about it on the IGN forums, but not here, as to not anger the designer in to me leaking too much of what he told me.

But yea, did you know, GT5P's London track is actually using assets from The Getaway 3? According to the lead designer, The Getaway 3 actually looks a little better than GT5P! And is of a much larger scale. Difference being, The Getaway 3 will run at 720p, 30fps.
Does that mean they switched back from the game being based in Amsterdam?
 
Aug 3, 2007
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dk_ said:
@ PGR4 vs GT5P

Both games look really good, but I think GT has the better lighting and car models. The surroundings (road building) are on par.

I think your TV HDMI brightness is to low, but that's just my impression.
I could put my HDTV on eye-blinding brightness rainbow shitting mode and the dark would still be too dark because the contrast diff. is still there. They need to tone the HDR down a lot more. Please let me see my beautiful interior and the environments.