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Gran Turismo 6 |OT| Moon Rover The Castle

ruttyboy

Member
Ah OK I think I get what you mean. Also, I am an idiot because I failed to consider how the speed is calculated when wheel spin comes into play. Car speed calculations in real life are done by measuring things like the tail shaft speed. In GT the speed displayed is actual velocity (or at least it's supposed to be).

As far as the two tests you described:

- Changing the wheel size has no effect on the values of the gear ratios and 'top speed' slider. (already tried)
- The speed of the car on track definitely changes with the difference wheel sizes. This is taken from reviewing replay data:

XAW8i8s.jpg


I might record some laps and review with the data logger.

Another somewhat irritating quirk is all cars feel like they're running a slush box auto during game play. I think it's worse online than offline.

Mazda 787B
- Coasting down to 151km/h
- Smack the throttle wide open and the RPM jumps 250rpm but only 3km/h
- Another 250rpm and the car piles on 10km/h

Wlhevmq.gif

Well the 'top speed' slider not changing with wheel size certainly points to wheel circumference not being involved in the speed calculation and, unless I'm mistaken, in that Escudo table you are still assuming that that speed difference is due to a wheel size change. The test I meant was taking a car and measuring the speed on, for example, 17" wheels, then changing the wheels (and absolutely nothing else) to 18" and trying again.

Rather than a gearbox thing, your gif there could be explained by the 'loss of speed' I was talking about. Acceleration is increased as the torque decreases as the RPM climbs out of the power band and so less forward velocity is lost to 'wheelspin'.

I guess only PD know the truth, but I suspect that the 'simulation' is nowhere near as complex as we are led to believe.
 

MGR

Member
Well the 'top speed' slider not changing with wheel size certainly points to wheel circumference not being involved in the speed calculation and, unless I'm mistaken, in that Escudo table you are still assuming that that speed difference is due to a wheel size change. The test I meant was taking a car and measuring the speed on, for example, 17" wheels, then changing the wheels (and absolutely nothing else) to 18" and trying again.

Rather than a gearbox thing, your gif there could be explained by the 'loss of speed' I was talking about. Acceleration is increased as the torque decreases as the RPM climbs out of the power band and so less forward velocity is lost to 'wheelspin'.

I guess only PD know the truth, but I suspect that the 'simulation' is nowhere near as complex as we are led to believe.

Changing the wheel diameter doesn't seem to change the car speed. I've tried testing that in the past as you can change wheels even in 'Tuning Prohibited' lobbies. But I assume the tyre profile simply reduces to compensate. Changing wheel size doesn't appear to affect handling either but I'd want to do some control tests to prove that.

The gif I posted was from online. It didn't seem as significant offline.
Also, when viewing replay data this quirk doesn't seem to be present.
 

MGR

Member
Based on ruttyboy's idea I ran some more tests and reviewed the results on the data logger. Looks like all tyres are in fact the same diameter and the slight variance in car speeds in replays is a result of tyre slip. Lower grip tyres slipping more than sticky tyres.

I've updated my post at GT Planet:

Tyre Wear
Most people will also notice excessive tyre wear after pitting, especially with race tyres. To illustrate this I ran some controlled tests around SSRX. This track produces very little tyre scrub as the turns are long and banked. The tyre degradation was set to ‘Fast’ for this test.

Toyota Supra (Tuned) – Racing Soft (RWD)
Toyota Supra (Tuned) – Full Wet (RWD)
Ford Focus ST (Tuned) – Full Wet (FWD)
Escudo Pikes Peak – Full Wet (4WD)

YKzzmtL.png

As you can see a full lap on the pre-pit tyres barely shows any signs of wear. In fact the tyres actually seemed to cool and turn blue. Obviously PD has not implemented any heat generation from sidewall flex. The Supra sustained a constant 450km/h+ without the tyres warming up ;)

What is interesting though is it seems only the driving wheels suffer from excessive wear after the pit stop. Also, there is a constant tyre screeching noise produced after pitting – which increases with the speed of the car. You can easily see the tyre wear graphics change as the tyres are ripped apart and screech all the way down the long SSRX straights.

Another by-product of the pitstop it that the camera view shakes much more violently at speed making the horizon to become something of a blur. The cars (especially the Supra) also become much more nervous even around the gentle high banked turns of SSRX.

RPM Changes
Many have also noted cars hitting their rev limiter much earlier in top gear after pitting. While the data logger is now available it is not able to log data from races – therefore no direct pre and post pitstop comparison can be made available using this feature (as pitting & tyre changes are only enabled in races).

So first up I ran a series of controlled race tests on SSRX using the Escudo and saved the replay data. I then captured the replays onto a PC and reviewed the video by pausing the car at approximately 8000rpm (as per the tacho needle) and noted the digital speed readout.

The second test was performed using the same car around Daytona – this time in free run mode and saving the logged data. I then used the data logger to review the various speed values available while accelerating at 8000rpm.

aS4SqOi.png


Based at viewing the replay video playback I noted a significant difference in the recorded speed between the original and pit set of race tyres. While I fell all tyres are affected by this bug the race tyres defiantly seem to be the most problematic. This speed discrepancy between pre and post pit stop is probably a significant factor.

Also the speed of the car seems to increase with the sticker tyres. Initially I thought there was something screwed up with the tyre circumference calculation but upon reviewing the logged data it would seem that PD have implemented some sort of tyre slip calculation depending on whether the car is accelerating or decelerating. To check this I ran a set of controlled test around Daytona using three types of car on Racing Soft tyres.

zpUQKzj.jpg


As you can see the rear driving tyres are slipping slightly under power as they attempt to push the car through the increasing air resistance resulting in a slightly higher wheel speed than the actual speed of the car. But when decelerating the natural engine braking has the opposite effect. In both cases the non-powered wheels match the cars actual speed.

mGJTR8h.jpg


This time it’s the front driving wheels that are trying to drag the car forward faster than its actual speed. The non-powered rears match the actual speed of the car.

yE8etI7.jpg


Now all four wheels are attempting to push the car through the air resulting in a slightly higher wheel speed than actual speed. Upon deceleration this is reversed with engine braking.

This animated GIF is taken from gameplay and shows the effect in action.
- Car coasting down to 7000RPM under engine braking
- Hit throttle open and the car jumps 500RPM but only 3km/h
- Car then adds another 500RPM but this time an extra 10km/h

Wlhevmq.gif


Theory

This tyre slip calculation seems to be at the heart of the problem. Something or some variable is calculated or reset incorrectly during the pit stop routine. This would explain why the tyre screech becomes clearly audible after pitting even in a straight line – especially using racing tyres. The massive difference in speeds recorded pre and post pit stop for the racing tyres is quite likely evidence of what is contributing to the flaw.

Every time a player enters the track the bug is not present. As soon as a pit stop is performed the game goes into a ‘bugged state’ but this is reset by exiting the track (or returning to the lobby) and re-entering the track.

This really should be a simple bug for PD to resolve.
 
New track for Academy 2014?

170414-1817-mp4_snapshot_00-02_-2014-04-17_19-15-34-jpg.143192



Track database had no changes with the 1.06 update, I can't check if one of those mini updates changed anything as my CFW PS3 isn't connected.

GTP says Interlagos because the track is sloping left but I'm not convinced.
 
How are you guys doing on times in GT Academy? I think I'm low 1:04's, which is ~place 3,000. Using a T500RS, no traction control, abs 1. What really helped I think was loading a top player's ghost data and following his trail. Also actually watching it and noting his brake and gas input. Going to give it another shot tonight, see if I can better it at all.
 

gunther

Member
How are you guys doing on times in GT Academy? I think I'm low 1:04's, which is ~place 3,000. Using a T500RS, no traction control, abs 1. What really helped I think was loading a top player's ghost data and following his trail. Also actually watching it and noting his brake and gas input. Going to give it another shot tonight, see if I can better it at all.

I'm in a similar situation add me to psn so we can compare times!!.

PSN : GuntherbChile
 

AlphaSnake

...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
Welp, it's been about 6 months now. I'm giving up on any major update for GT6.

Fuck your overpromising ways, Polyphony.
 

ruttyboy

Member
Does anybody know if this was confirmed somewhere? Or is it just Wax being Wax?

As far as I know you can stick a wick in it.

As for the Academy, had a quick run on release day, but haven't felt any real urge to go back to it, such a dull car, and that's coming from someone who much prefers lower HP cars. Might have another crack at it at the weekend though.

Bit disappointed that it's just a couple of time trials, the 2012 effort is yet to be beaten.
 

IISANDERII

Member
What are your stats? I race online quite a lot, in the single player I only have 300 stars but I do have Platinum Trophy.

5yAJIT0.jpg


The Countach isn't my favourite car but online tends to go to 500PP frequently and I like using it in this range.
 

benzy

Member
There's been zero talk of any kind of content or update. I doubt we're getting anything in 3 days. =\

They'd better have a GT7 Teaser at E3 with all of this lack of content they promised us.
 

Juicy Bob

Member
To be honest, I've always considered Polyphony to be a very respectable, top-tier development company. I put Polyphony's somewhat frustrating handling of GT5 with us all not really having any idea when the game was being released down to the fact that they were all so dedicated to making it 'perfect' before release that they weren't prepared to launch a game of that level of ambition before it was truly ready and I respected that.

However, the way that Polyphony have handled GT6 has completely changed my personal perceptions of them as an organisation. I could understand the radio silence in the build up to GT5 being released, but the fact that they promised so much in the lead up to the launch of GT6 but have effectively disappeared and failed to provide many of the features they promised leading up to release with not even a single word of explanation or reassurance is really poor form by any standard.

To be completely fair, I haven't played or purchased GT6 myself, so I'm not going to criticise a game I haven't played. But the only thing that has stopped me from buying GT6 thus far is reading all the legitimate complaints on GAF and other places such as GT Planet.

As much as I don't like to admit it, I'm going to struggle to be as excited the next time a new GT game is announced as I have been over previous installments.
 

offshore

Member
The people to blame are Sony. They own the studio, they [should] be giving out the orders and making sure the studio is being run properly. Evidently they aren't.

It was a huge mistake to put GT6 on PS3 to begin with. Most people here realised it before release. Why couldn't Sony? Mystery.
 

Duren

Neo Member
I've given up, but now I like to have fun thinking of ways they will screw up DLC, in typical ass backward ways.. the Polyphony way.

We will get the MP4-4...as a PSN icon

You know that Mercedes only race between f1 drivers in the 80s, where senna beat them all? Yep we will get that car.... 's paint chip.

We will get interlagos... As a downloadable image to use as a background on your PS3.

We will get a senna go kart.... In a terrible, limited time seasonal, and if you win.. You get a new horn sound!

That awesome Lotus in the gt6 intro? Oh yeah, we will get it... As a non drivable, prop for photo mode you can move around.


Sigh, prove me wrong Polyphony, prove me wrong..
 

amar212

Member
Vanilla #dead

Also, somebody should make a news for the frontpage.

And also, more positive news incoming, although we should wait a bit.
 

ruttyboy

Member
Holy shit! They're actually doing something!

Of course we don't actually have a date or anything, and it would be nice to actually have the content on the anniversary, but on recent form that would be too much to ask and as its free I can't complain.
 
Yes, Kazzie!

No karting shit!

The other slot has got to be for dat McLaren MP4/4:

Code:
Abarth
AC Cars
Acura
AEM
Alfa Romeo
Alpine
alpine_vgt.Alpine
RE Amemiya
AMG
Amuse
Art Morrison
Autobacs
Aston Martin
astonmartin_vgt.Aston Martin
Ford (AU)
Audi
Autobianchi
AutoUnion
[b]ayrton_senna.Lotus
ayrton_senna[/b]
Bentley
Bertone
Blitz
BMW
Bugatti
Buick
Cadillac
Callaway
Caterham
Chaparral
Chevrolet
Chrysler
Citroën
Cizeta
Daihatsu
DeltaWing
DMC
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Dome
Eagle
Ferrari
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Gillet
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GM DESIGN
Grand Touring Garage
High End Performance
HKS
Holden
Hommell
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HPA Motorsports
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Infiniti
Isuzu
Italdesign Giugiaro
Jaguar
Jay Leno
Jensen
Jordan
KTM
Lamborghini
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LandRover
Lexus
Lister
Lotus
Marcos
Maserati
Mazda
McLaren
Mercedes-Benz
Mercury
MG
Mine's
MINI
Mitsubishi
Monster Sport
Mugen
Nike
Nismo
Nissan
None
Opel
Opera Performance
Pagani
Panoz
Pescarolo
Peugeot
Pininfarina
Plymouth
Gran Turismo
Pontiac
Pozzi MotorSports
Oullim Motors
Ram
redbull
Renault
Renault Sport
Light Car Company
RUF
Saleen
Scion
SEAT
Shelby
Spoon
Spyker
SRT
Stielow Engineering
Subaru
Suzuki
Tajima
Tesla Motors
Tommykaira
TOM'S
Toyota
Toyota Modellista
TRD
Trial
Triumph
TVR
Vauxhall
Vemac
Volkswagen
Volvo
Zagato
 

benzy

Member
And also, more positive news incoming, although we should wait a bit.

Track Creator almost complete?

Just give us the track creator and Senna DLC and I'll be good. No need for DLC tracks, use that time to add more detail and tailor those DLC tracks for PS4 hardware so they don't look outdated by the time GT7P arrives.
 
Track Creator almost complete?

Just give us the track creator and Senna DLC and I'll be good. No need for DLC tracks, use that time to add more detail and tailor those DLC tracks for PS4 hardware so they don't look outdated by the time GT7P arrives.

Just in time for the March update.
 
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