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Drama Hardware Graphics cards and crypto mining - Let's be real for a second

Ascend

Member
Jul 23, 2018
3,545
5,175
615
Crypto mining... This is going to trigger some people, but it has to be said.

Let's get the basics out of the way first...
nVidia is worth 0.3 Trillion dollars
AMD is worth 0.1 Trillion dollars

Together, they are not worth half a trillion dollars, and we want them to control a cryptocurrency market with a cap of 1.6 Trillion ? That is larger than the whole of Google (which is worth 1.4 Trillion). Do you really honestly think, that AMD and nVidia can do anything about this...? REALLY?

People complain about large corporations all the time, but when there's a free resource out there to directly be part of something bigger, people fight against it. Mining is an opportunity for everyone that bought a graphics card to make the card pay back for itself. And it's sad that people not only complain about mining, but go as far as wanting that ability removed from gamers, to try and artificially control a market that is bigger than Google... Yeah... Good luck with that.

The issue here is people having an obsession with new stuff. Most of us have backlogs of games that we never played, yet we can play with our current hardware. Do you know how many good games are out there that the majority of us can play even with integrated graphics?
But noooo. We must have that latest newest shiny thing, otherwise gaming is impossible...

We live in a dopamine addicted society where we want immediate satisfaction, while there's a bunch of other options to achieve basically the same thing. If you play Cyberpunk 2077 today or in a year from now, it's the same game. In fact, it might even be a better game a year from now due to patches, and might even be cheaper to boot.

Seriously... I don't get it. Graphics card are not food. You're not going to die if you don't get one. The world would be a much better place if we fixed our addictions and looked at opportunities instead of limitations. Just try and not ruin things for the rest of us with your ignorance.

But what do I know...?
 

LazyParrot

Member
Mar 19, 2019
1,813
3,764
445
Mining is an opportunity for everyone that bought a graphics card to make the card pay back for itself. And it's sad that people not only complain about mining, but go as far as wanting that ability removed from gamers
As it stands right now, mining is mainly an opportunity for non-gamers to buy up all these cards before gamers can get their hands on them. Most people would stop bitching if there were enough cards to go around.
 
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kiphalfton

Member
Dec 27, 2018
1,508
2,291
490
That's great and all but I just want to upgrade my pc and I can't. What people do with their stuff is their business. A better solution would be ideal but it is better then nothing. If people could actually buy them no one would care.

It's going to make no difference whatsoever if Nvidia releases a graphics card that only games, and a graphics card that only mines. If money can be made by resellers, they will snatch these all up.

First people said:
"Maybe availability for the RTX 3080 will be better once the RTX 3070 comes out"

Then they said:
"Maybe availability for the RTX 3080 and RTX 3070 will be better once the consoles come out"

Then they said:
"Maybe availability for the RTX 3080 and RTX 3070 will be better once the Big Navi cards come out"

Then they said:
"Maybe availability for the RTX 3080 and RTX 3070 will be better once the RTX 3060 Ti comes out"

In each of those cases, availability continued to suck, even though more and more products kept coming out. That didn't stop resellers, all it did was allow them more options to make money.
 

Vae_Victis

Member
Mar 4, 2020
863
3,131
490
Crypto currencies are a glorified pyramid scheme, where an initial push makes people beget people and money beget money, until the person or group at the base of the pyramid decides to pull the plug and cash out.
  • Create currency / find random unknown currency
  • Suddenly put a few tens of thousands of dollars behind it and make its value multiply by x10,000
  • Pay a couple thousand dollars to have trash-tier websites advertise it as "the next big thing"
  • Flocks of retards start buying into it, the cycle perpetuates itself and the value skyrockets without need for further action
  • Original buyer suddenly sells everything, makes 4-5 times the initial investment and is out of it
  • Everybody else starts to scramble and panic, the crypto collapses, some people make some money out of it, most lose everything

This happens again, and again, and again, and again, with small and large currencies alike, but most people just cannot grasp the concept. I guess a fool and their money are, indeed, soon parted.
 
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Aug 12, 2018
193
428
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Wall Street will be right. For bankers this will just be another day at the office, another of the many market blow ups that don’t impact them, but really impact everyone else. Another thing people are outraged about to roll their eyes over.

The lesson taken away by those losers, and everyone else not on Wall Street, is more important, insightful, and dangerous though. It will be that there isn’t a meritocracy, or at least a justified one. It will be that everyone is just playing games. Those at the top get to dress up their game, even though it is destructive to everyone else, as legitimate, call playing it a career, and get rewarded mightily for it. Others, like them, have to make it a hobby, and even though it is just harmless fun, get scolded for it.

This will harden a cynicism that already exists in large parts of America. A cynicism that will convince more and more people to play all of their life, recklessly. As long as it hurts the big and the rich they'll run headlong at it.

Because if you are not going to be allowed to win a rigged game, you might as well ruin it, and extract just a tiny moment of joy from that.
 
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Daymos

Member
Jul 26, 2013
734
539
650
In the tree
You do have a point there.. and yeah, my 5 year old laptop with intel HD 5500 graphics runs oblivion, morrowind, and dragon age origins better than any console ever did.
 

Tierdal

Neo Member
Mar 31, 2013
3
5
370
Crypto mining... This is going to trigger some people, but it has to be said.

Let's get the basics out of the way first...
nVidia is worth 0.3 Trillion dollars
AMD is worth 0.1 Trillion dollars

Together, they are not worth half a trillion dollars, and we want them to control a cryptocurrency market with a cap of 1.6 Trillion ? That is larger than the whole of Google (which is worth 1.4 Trillion). Do you really honestly think, that AMD and nVidia can do anything about this...? REALLY?

People complain about large corporations all the time, but when there's a free resource out there to directly be part of something bigger, people fight against it. Mining is an opportunity for everyone that bought a graphics card to make the card pay back for itself. And it's sad that people not only complain about mining, but go as far as wanting that ability removed from gamers, to try and artificially control a market that is bigger than Google... Yeah... Good luck with that.

The issue here is people having an obsession with new stuff. Most of us have backlogs of games that we never played, yet we can play with our current hardware. Do you know how many good games are out there that the majority of us can play even with integrated graphics?
But noooo. We must have that latest newest shiny thing, otherwise gaming is impossible...

We live in a dopamine addicted society where we want immediate satisfaction, while there's a bunch of other options to achieve basically the same thing. If you play Cyberpunk 2077 today or in a year from now, it's the same game. In fact, it might even be a better game a year from now due to patches, and might even be cheaper to boot.

Seriously... I don't get it. Graphics card are not food. You're not going to die if you don't get one. The world would be a much better place if we fixed our addictions and looked at opportunities instead of limitations. Just try and not ruin things for the rest of us with your ignorance.

But what do I know...?
Crypto has no value. It is not backed by any government.
 

RyRy93

Member
Oct 15, 2020
187
223
270
Not all cryptocurrencies are built around mining
Crypto has no value. It is not backed by any government.
What gives it value is the fact that it's yours, decentralized, if you want to send the equivalent of $10,000 to someone on the other side of the world instantly and with no BS forms to fill out you can with crypto.
 

zkorejo

Member
Apr 6, 2014
1,873
325
550
If they have a bigger market (regardless of what they use the card for) to sell to shouldn't they increase the production?

Covid restrictions is the main reason to blame for the shortage in my opinion. In normal circumstances it wouldn't have been this bad of a situation I feel.
 

Ascend

Member
Jul 23, 2018
3,545
5,175
615
Crypto currencies are a glorified pyramid scheme, where an initial push makes people beget people and money beget money, until the person or group at the base of the pyramid decides to pull the plug and cash out.
  • Create currency / find random unknown currency
  • Suddenly put a few tens of thousands of dollars behind it and make its value multiply by x10,000
  • Pay a couple thousand dollars to have trash-tier websites advertise it as "the next big thing"
  • Flocks of retards start buying into it, the cycle perpetuates itself and the value skyrockets without need for further action
  • Original buyer suddenly sells everything, makes 4-5 times the initial investment and is out of it
  • Everybody else starts to scramble and panic, the crypto collapses, some people make some money out of it, most lose everything

This happens again, and again, and again, and again, with small and large currencies alike, but most people just cannot grasp the concept. I guess a fool and their money are, indeed, soon parted.
I can agree on one thing... Most people can indeed not grasp the concept of crypto...

But whether it's supposedly a glorified pyramid scheme or not, you still can let your graphics card pay for itself, and, that is not something that should be taken away.

Crypto has no value. It is not backed by any government.
If you can still make your graphics card pay for itself, saying it has no value is kind of a tough sell.
Besides, the government doesn't need to back something for it to have value... But that's another discussion entirely. The crypto market is factually larger than Google based on market cap.
 

jaysius

Member
Oct 3, 2019
2,570
3,366
445
I always wonder if the money spent on the power bills and the gpus pay off investment wise, these crypto people are mostly short sighted kidults right?
 

Ascend

Member
Jul 23, 2018
3,545
5,175
615
Not all cryptocurrencies are built around mining
This is entirely true. Good to see someone that is aware.

And not all PoW coins use graphics cards, but ASICs instead. So the comparison is not exactly completely fair. But ETH alone is larger than AMD. So... Yeah.

I always wonder if the money spent on the power bills and the gpus pay off investment wise, these crypto people are mostly short sighted kidults right?
Unless you live in a country with astronomically high electricity cost, it's going to pay off. And even if you live in such a country, it will likely pay off anyway, considering how things went up lately. There are many tools to calculate it.
 

A.Romero

Member
Feb 23, 2009
3,621
2,375
1,250
Mexico
www.lavejota.com
Well, that's free market. Nvidia and AMD are covering their just creating products that are demanded by people. We are in a video game enthusiast forum, people here care about video games. I think it's a good idea for them to develop separate products for different purposes. Thing is demand for all things electronic is high and will remain so at least for the foreseeable future. There is a finite production capacity that is evidently not enough.

That said, crypto is not necessarily a pyramid scheme because some of them (not all) do have a practical use. If business accept cryptos so customers can exchange it for goods and services, what is the real difference from money?

Also lol at people that think that fiat has value because of the government. People making transactions with whatever currency they want are the ones giving value to both crypto and fiat. It's been a long time since fiat has been backed by gold. Try paying with a government backed currency from a foreign country in a remote village somewhere and see how far you get.

I don't see crypto currency going anywhere.
 
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ThatGamingDude

I am a virgin
Aug 30, 2018
2,192
2,709
725
Yeah!

Fuck a company for trying to prevent people from using their products in unintended ways!
 

Ascend

Member
Jul 23, 2018
3,545
5,175
615
Yeah!

Fuck a company for trying to prevent people from using their products in unintended ways!
Not the point. The point is that they can't do anything about it. The most scummy thing is pretending to want to do something about it while in actuality screwing gamers over. And even worse, the gamers celebrate it. Talk about celebrating the digging of your own grave...

I want a new graphics card too. But at this point I'll be waiting till next year, and I am completely ok with that, because there are enough other things to do in life, rather than throwing a tantrum because I can't get what I want right now, or becoming mad at the most revolutionary technology since the invention of the internet.
 
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ThatGamingDude

I am a virgin
Aug 30, 2018
2,192
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Not the point. The point is that they can't do anything about it. The most scummy thing is pretending to want to do something about it while in actuality screwing gamers over. And even worse, the gamers celebrate it. Talk about celebrating the digging of your own grave...
Pardon, how is it screwing over gamers?
 

DGrayson

Mod Team and Bat Team
Staff Member
Dec 5, 2017
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Bonfires Down

Member
Jul 31, 2007
3,201
4,617
1,570
It is surprising to me how many supposedly tech savvy gamers don't seem to understand what crypto is and why it is important. And had you bought some crypto last year you would be able to afford 10 GPUs now even at scalper prices. Hell, scalper prices are still reasonable if you mine some crypto in the off hours.

Anyway, no amount of forum whining is going to make cryptos go away, or change Nvidia's plans for that matter so it's best to just ignore it.
 
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ThatGamingDude

I am a virgin
Aug 30, 2018
2,192
2,709
725

NVIDIA Allegedly Sold $175 Million Worth of Ampere GeForce RTX 30 GPUs To Crypto Miners, Could Be A Contributing Factor Behind Immense Shortages​


https://wccftech.com/nvidia-allegedly-sold-175-million-worth-ampere-geforce-rtx-30-gpus-to-miners/#:~:text=NVIDIA Sold $175 Million Worth,Ampere GPUs directly to miners.
Well, yeah, I've kept up with it, more just confused as to how this "Fucks gamers as a whole."

I don't often run into people that are both a gamer and miner; sure they exist, but I don't think it's a dominating market share of PC gamers that do both gaming and crypto. I would say the people who do both mining and PC gaming are of the niche or minority category in their respective markets
 
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Kataploom

Member
Jan 30, 2014
1,451
1,052
775
Colombia
Crypto has no value. It is not backed by any government.
Sure those cards are buying themselves out of pure freedom desire and not miners looking for digital thingies with no value at all.

But yeah, I don't think it's all up to miners since CPUs are also short on demand.
 

midasmulligan

Member
Dec 23, 2013
1,547
525
720
No one cares about the revolution, I just want to play at 4K 120 on my 3090ti. Does the following look like a bunch of third world miners that are just trying to put food on the table?

 

RoboFu

Member
Oct 10, 2017
3,850
5,912
535
Crypto currency is for sex trafficking, and money laundering fir drug lords. I say get rid of it.

come at me bro
 

spyshagg

Should not be allowed to breed
May 13, 2006
1,664
421
1,620
Crypto currency is for sex trafficking, and money laundering fir drug lords. I say get rid of it.

come at me bro
So is USD, EUR, GBP and every other currency in existence.

The Internet suffered the same attacks of ignorance from the established businesses in the 90's, and some into the 2000's believe it or not. Adapt or move along.
 
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TonyK

Member
Aug 13, 2020
1,082
1,803
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This thread is the answer to that other thread about if Neogaf is really a videogame enthusiast forum, and the answer seems a No.
 
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PlayStaytion

Member
Dec 22, 2019
452
142
260
No one cares about the revolution, I just want to play at 4K 120 on my 3090ti. Does the following look like a bunch of third world miners that are just trying to put food on the table?

Jensen Huang isn't happy with the pc gaming market situation against consoles especially with their forbidden specs , it's not about if they match the rtx 3070 , it's the whole idea of putting hot stuff inside small boxes just itches them , and the best way for them at moment to fill that gap is through serving crypto market , gamers aren't their best interest as simple as that.
 

Dr.D00p

Member
May 23, 2019
1,072
2,473
395
Miners are just a bunch of selfish little cunts..Now that we've established that undeniable fact, Pls close the thread.
 

spons

Member
May 25, 2009
2,514
764
1,205
I just want to consoom a new graphics card and I can't. Annoying as fuck. Shit's either out of stock or second mortgage levels of expensive. I don't even care about any of your arguments. Fuck cryptocurrencies, fuck scalpers and fuck mining for coins. Coin mining is such a waste of energy, we should get Greta on it and speak for the United Nations to outlaw that shit.
 
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Ascend

Member
Jul 23, 2018
3,545
5,175
615
I just want to consoom a new graphics card and I can't. Annoying as fuck. Shit's either out of stock or second mortgage levels of expensive. I don't even care about any of your arguments. Fuck cryptocurrencies, fuck scalpers and fuck mining for coins. Coin mining is such a waste of energy, we should get Greta on it and speak for the United Nations to outlaw that shit.

Sad Baby GIF
 

purvispisgah

Member
May 10, 2007
534
186
1,300
Wall Street will be right. For bankers this will just be another day at the office, another of the many market blow ups that don’t impact them, but really impact everyone else. Another thing people are outraged about to roll their eyes over.

The lesson taken away by those losers, and everyone else not on Wall Street, is more important, insightful, and dangerous though. It will be that there isn’t a meritocracy, or at least a justified one. It will be that everyone is just playing games. Those at the top get to dress up their game, even though it is destructive to everyone else, as legitimate, call playing it a career, and get rewarded mightily for it. Others, like them, have to make it a hobby, and even though it is just harmless fun, get scolded for it.
Based on the second half of your post, it's not clear to me what your opinion is, but this portion is just true. Large swathes of Western society are learning what has been true for essentially the entirety of currency as a human endeavor: the people at the top are just playing games and it isn't a meritocracy. What people do with this information is an open question, but it's true.

The people that currently control currencies are parasitical, but that's not a requirement for a functional economy and society to exist.
 
Jun 15, 2019
1,848
3,176
455
No one cares about the revolution, I just want to play at 4K 120 on my 3090ti. Does the following look like a bunch of third world miners that are just trying to put food on the table?

No...but I don't see a whole lot of GPUs in that photo. What I do see is a bunch of ASIC miners.
 
Jun 15, 2019
1,848
3,176
455
Enjoy (don't mind the title, I doubt they mine BTC);

Definitely not. I'm not even sure when BTC hashing on GPUs was even last viable. I remember people talking about ASICs and how GPUs are trash a good 4? years ago now. Most likely mining etherium.
 

Durask

Member
Feb 6, 2012
3,000
2,205
860
Definitely not. I'm not even sure when BTC hashing on GPUs was even last viable. I remember people talking about ASICs and how GPUs are trash a good 4? years ago now. Most likely mining etherium.

Mining etherium and various s**tcoins.
 

ToTTenTranz

Member
Feb 4, 2021
364
779
300
People complain about large corporations all the time, but when there's a free resource out there to directly be part of something bigger, people fight against it. Mining is an opportunity for everyone that bought a graphics card to make the card pay back for itself.
Key expression here being "everyone that bought a graphics card". That's not everyone, nor is everyone who can afford one of those graphics cards.
Miners are taking away the bulk of these new GPUs, and they're not your average Joe.

"Miners" aren't your everyday middle-class gamers that want to put their GPUs to make some casual money on their rigs. Those people are obviously not important enough by themselves to make deals with nvidia and OEMs to take the cards directly out of the factory supply lines in China.
The ones currently mining the bulk of the crypto currencies are multi-million/billion dollar companies that can afford these exclusive deals through volume purchases. These are also hoarding most of the crypto to themselves, meaning the crypto isn't really getting "decentralized" at all.
All at the cost of massive amounts of electronic waste, energy consumption and their inevitable carbon footprint.

If your idea in favor of crypto mining was that regular people could be directly part of something bigger, then you should know they're not much of a part in anything here.


That's not to say you're wrong in your comment about people wanting the latest best thing and general FOMO. But those are two completely different things.
FOMO on the general population should never be an excuse to the megacorp-driven abhorrent disgrace that crypto mining has become, IMO.
 

Ascend

Member
Jul 23, 2018
3,545
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615
Key expression here being "everyone that bought a graphics card". That's not everyone, nor is everyone who can afford one of those graphics cards.
I doubt the majority of people wanting to buy a graphics card don't have a previous graphics card. And even then, if you can get one, you can use your CPU to mine, to pay for all your hardware over time.

Miners are taking away the bulk of these new GPUs, and they're not your average Joe.

"Miners" aren't your everyday middle-class gamers that want to put their GPUs to make some casual money on their rigs. Those people are obviously not important enough by themselves to make deals with nvidia and OEMs to take the cards directly out of the factory supply lines in China.
The ones currently mining the bulk of the crypto currencies are multi-million/billion dollar companies that can afford these exclusive deals through volume purchases. These are also hoarding most of the crypto to themselves, meaning the crypto isn't really getting "decentralized" at all.
All at the cost of massive amounts of electronic waste, energy consumption and their inevitable carbon footprint.

If your idea in favor of crypto mining was that regular people could be directly part of something bigger, then you should know they're not much of a part in anything here.
All of it was true, up to the hoarding part.
They have to sell to maintain operations running, exactly because the operational cost is high cost in electricity. By selling to cover operational cost, the coins are being distributed. So even if the mining is not fully distributed, the coins are. And even then, the mining is still distributed, otherwise you'd have a 51% attack. And the more normal people start mining, the less centralized it becomes. It is all in our hands.

That's not to say you're wrong in your comment about people wanting the latest best thing and general FOMO. But those are two completely different things.
FOMO on the general population should never be an excuse to the megacorp-driven abhorrent disgrace that crypto mining has become, IMO.
They are related though. Mining wouldn't be hated so much by gamers, if they were happy with their current graphics card.
That mining has become big is good in my view. Not good for gamers maybe, but, good for technological advancement. Not only have we made trust digital, if anything, the power consumption will boost innovation in the green energy production space.


It's always interesting to me that for crypto, energy consumption is the primary concern. As if gaming and streaming are such productive activities in our society..
Germany is the country with the highest proportion of renewable energy, at 13%. Wanna guess the proportion of crypto mining...? Close to 40% of mining power comes from green sources. That's better than any country out there. But of course, you never hear about that.


Miners have the incentive and the funds to push renewable energy. More so than any other industry out there.
 

Fahdis

Member
Nov 30, 2018
727
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480
Pre-mined coins are the future. But gaming and crypto could go hand in hand if Steam starts taking Crypto again. I've made more than... *expletive* this year where I can afford a house, a Tesla Model S and a powerful rig at the same time and we are only half way into the Bull Run.
 
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Fuz

Member
Jun 8, 2009
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Yeah!

Fuck a company for trying to prevent people from using their products in unintended ways!
Yes, actually.

When I buy something it's mine and I can do whatever the fuck I want with it.


N.B.
I hate this fucking shortage too. But it's not the point.
 
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wtftad

Member
Jun 6, 2014
626
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I read/heard somewhere (citation needed) this week that actual PC units were UP in terms of availability to the market place. Producing 20 - 40% more CPU's/GPU's but the demand has increased beyond that with folks working at home, home schooling etc.

Some crazy numbers like Chromebook sales increasing by 600%.