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[DantesWrath]

I can't wait to play this game in 2009!

 

[LJ11]

I read somewhere on this forum that they wanted GT4 cars to flip, but the PS2 didn't have enough "juice" to make it happen.

Ask yourself this, why don't the cars in Forza 2 flip over? Surely the 360 has enough juice to make a car flip.

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

It's obvious some don't understand the requirements car manufacturers place on game makers. These car aren't going to flip because they view their cars as trophies on the road. Console hardware has nothing to do with this decision.

 

[momolicious]

manufacturers are wierd, its just a videogame

 

[Kintaro]

I absolutely cannot imagine what GT5 will look like in motion. Seriously.

 

[AlphaSnake]

What's the size of the team working on GT5?

Car damage, sounds awesome. That and the dashboard view.

56 employees worked on modeling GT4, and that was enough for them because they were able to reuse a lot of assets from GT3. Car models for GT5 have been in development since late 2004, which has given PD quite a lot of time. Right now, I'm almost certain that there are just about 100 people working on the car modeling aspect of the game (a lot of people are also hired and others are brought over from other studios temporarily), since it is at its most critical point of development. Over time, that number will dwindle as the game nears a higher rate of completion.

 

[Doom_Bringer]

It's obvious some don't understand the requirements car manufacturers place on game makers. These car aren't going to flip because they view their cars as trophies on the road. Console hardware has nothing to do with this decision.

ding ding ding

but the manufacturer mentality is dumb. It's a friggin video game for crying out loud!!

 

[Yoboman]

Ask yourself this, why don't the cars in Forza 2 flip over? Surely the 360 has enough juice to make a car flip.

It doesn't? Forza 1 allowed for that

Anyway, car flipping isn't that important. The most important thing is that the car handling reflects actually hitting things. No more bumper cars, you should lose control, stop etc. when you plow into something, be it a rail or another car

 

[UncleGuito]

Cool, but all of those changes should have been done a long time ago. The GT series (in my mind), has been lacking since the second game.

 

[jett]

I can't wait to play this game in 2019!

Fizzixed.

I don't believe for a second that GT5 will have the same number of cars GT4 did.

 

[Doom_Bringer]

56 employees worked on modeling GT4, and that was enough for them because they were able to reuse a lot of assets from GT3. Car models for GT5 have been in development since late 2004, which has given PD quite a lot of time. Right now, I'm almost certain that there are just about 100 people working on the car modeling aspect of the game (a lot of people are also hired and others are brought over from other studios temporarily), since it is at its most critical point of development. Over time, that number will dwindle as the game nears a higher rate of completion.

do they even have to redo the models? I am sure they made high quality models for GT3/GT4 and scaled them back so they could run on PS2. Now they might just bump up the polygons and be done with it

 

[DemonSwordsman]

Every other racing sim allows for it

every otherracing sim has cars flipping around?

 

[momolicious]

is cars flipping around that bad?

 

[Gek54]

Damage for just race cars is not a bad trade off. 12-20 cars at the GTHD level detail with dynamic weather at 60fps seems hard to swallow.

 

[AlphaSnake]

do they even have to redo the models? I am sure they made high quality models for GT3/GT4 and scaled them back so they could run on PS2. Now they might just bump up the polygons and be done with it

Considering the quality of the photo mode cars...I'm sure what PD likely did was upgrade those, and it's so hard to imagine that because those cars already looked (and still do) jaw dropping.

 

[Ranger X]

If they mean moderate damage on the street cars (like Forza 2) and extensive damage on racing models i'm gonna be sold to infinity!!

I hope all car will be able to flip though. Oh and here's a pre-emptive "fuck you" to cars manifacturers that get nothing about games and the image of cars in real life.

 

[seattle6418]

56 employees worked on modeling GT4, and that was enough for them because they were able to reuse a lot of assets from GT3. Car models for GT5 have been in development since late 2004, which has given PD quite a lot of time. Right now, I'm almost certain that there are just about 100 people working on the car modeling aspect of the game (a lot of people are also hired and others are brought over from other studios temporarily), since it is at its most critical point of development. Over time, that number will dwindle as the game nears a higher rate of completion.

i know you have a lot of inside info, but lets put math into this:

5 people = 1 car in 3 months
5 people = 4 cars in one year.

100 people = 80 cars in one year.

from... lets say start of 2005 until de end of 2007 we have 36 months.

240 modelled cars with this crew.

ok, a lot of numbers here might be a bit different, but still, to me this just gives an idea that we're not really sure how car modelling is being done.

240 models is quite loe for GT standars. i believe we will see more. maybe they can still use some scans with some cars... maybe one team of 5 people can work in different models...

all cars from GT4? sure, but lets not forget must have cars that we didnt had in GT4 but we have now: all ferraris, the new BMW M6, the new skyline... the list goes on. so the number of cars (according to kaz) should be even higher.

but then again, numbers are easilly mistaken. GT4 had 819 variations. roughly 300 different body structures to model tough... (yes, i counted but right now i forgot the exact number.) so its not as bad as the numbers might indicate...

 

[WHOAguitarninja]

It doesn't? Forza 1 allowed for that

No it didn't.

Car manufacturers aren't going to allow ANYTHING into the game that makes the car seem unsafe. That's why you don't see damage (on production cars) that destroys the frame of the car, that's why you don't see cars flipping, and that's why it's such a pain to even get any damage at all.

 

[AlphaSnake]

i know you have a lot of inside info, but lets put math into this:

5 people = 1 car in 3 months
5 people = 4 cars in one year.

100 people = 80 cars in one year.

from... lets say start of 2005 until de end of 2007 we have 36 months.

240 modelled cars with this crew.

ok, a lot of numbers here might be a bit different, but still, to me this just gives an idea that we're not really sure how car modelling is being done.

240 models is quite loe for GT standars. i believe we will see more. maybe they can still use some scans with some cars... maybe one team of 5 people can work in different models...

all cars from GT4? sure, but lets not forget must have cars that we didnt had in GT4 but we have now: all ferraris, the new BMW M6, the new skyline... the list goes on. so the number of cars (according to kaz) should be even higher.

but then again, numbers are easilly mistaken. GT4 had 819 variations. roughly 300 different body structures to model tough... (yes, i counted but right now i forgot the exact number.) so its not as bad as the numbers might indicate...

You're not wrong. But you also have to remember that that '3 month per 5 people' figure takes into effect a certain hourly restriction (a 6 hour shift, for example). When GT3 was approaching release, the developers SLEPT in the offices for the final 3 months of the game's development, and that goes to show you how much overtime they were putting in (and with a smaller staff). Hideo Kojima spoke of the very same thing when MGS2 and MGS3 were approaching release, it was around the clock work for them.

So that figure is more of a standard figure without all of the convoluted "buts and ifs". These developers are madmen. I've heard and spoken to a number of them, and they all say that when you have a pivotal role in a huge franchise like this, the work is downright grueling. It's borderline masochism, but these people then can't wait to work on the next one!

 

[Yoboman]

No it didn't.

Car manufacturers aren't going to allow ANYTHING into the game that makes the car seem unsafe. That's why you don't see damage (on production cars) that destroys the frame of the car, that's why you don't see cars flipping, and that's why it's such a pain to even get any damage at all.

Maybe flip isn't the right word, I'm not looking for the cars to get obliterated Burnout style. I just don't want the cars to be stuck to the track. Forza allowed the cars to go flying, even if they didn't end up on their roof.

 

[LJ11]

Cool, but all of those changes should have been done a long time ago. The GT series (in my mind), has been lacking since the second game.

Yeah, I agree. 12-20 cars online, with damage, dynamic weather and 60fps should have been in ages ago. :|

Heck, I will be surprised if they're able to pull all this off on the PS3. Yet you seem to believe that all of these features should have made into the PS2 games. That's just...:lol

 

[Yoboman]

This game really needs an evolution in every way though. Right down to the structure of races and progression through the game. Even presentation. It should feel like a new experience, not like Gran Turismo 4 with damage

 

[Crayon Shinchan]

This game really needs an evolution in every way though. Right down to the structure of races and progression through the game. Even presentation. It should feel like a new experience, not like Gran Turismo 4 with damage

You're not wrong there.

Kaz needs a co-director... a guy that's earnt his chops designing games rather than simulators.

 

[Steroyd]

That's crap if true. So that means damage won't be applied to most of the cars? If I can only smash up a particular type of car, then what's the point?

I'd prefer they only include the cars they can wreck up, at least that sets a regular standard.

Slow progression, GT3 had tire damage on most of the later races while GT4 had tire damage on all races.

There might be a similar thing from GT5 to GT6 or they might patch GT5 or something.

 

[Gek54]

Yeah, I agree. 12-20 cars online, with damage, dynamic weather and 60fps should have been in ages ago. :|

Heck, I will be surprised if they're able to pull all this off on the PS3. Yet you seem to believe that all of these features should have made into the PS2 games. That's just...:lol

TOCA on PS2 says hello.

 

[Greg]

TOCA on PS2 says hello.

But the physics say goodbye.

 

[Core407]

Every other racing sim allows for it

Because they realize videogames are a marketing tool so they're more willing to give in, but not all companies car companies are happy about it.

Edit: I think they're more worried about it being done unrealistically - giving the player the wrong ideas about their product.

 

[WHOAguitarninja]

Maybe flip isn't the right word, I'm not looking for the cars to get obliterated Burnout style. I just don't want the cars to be stuck to the track. Forza allowed the cars to go flying, even if they didn't end up on their roof.

They don't roll. That's the big thing and seems to be most manufacturer's hangup. It's pretty cool playing the DiRT demo where you can actually roll your cars. I'm not really used to it since so few games these days do it.

 

[Yoboman]

Slow progression, GT3 had tire damage on most of the later races while GT4 had tire damage on all races.

There might be a similar thing from GT5 to GT6 or they might patch GT5 or something.

That's not really necessary. He just needs a gameplay advisor to help him co-ordinate a new structure for the games. I'm tired of playing through A-spec and the license test and whole design of the game basically revolving around progressive upgrades in your arsenal of trading up cars. They need to do something different

 

[Router]

Only race cars will feature damage?


That blows.

 

[FightyF]

Sounds great!

But I noticed that there was no mention of AI...that's the biggest flaw of the series thus far. It's a pretty average racing game...but a great driving game. I think that they should dedicate one SPU to AI.

Heh, if you think about it...these features probably wouldn't have been considered if it weren't for Forza. Thank God for competition!

I can understand some of the skepticism regarding these listed features but keep in mind that a game like FM2 has damage, a game like PGR4 has cockpit views and realtime weather...so it's not some pie in the sky fairytale. Secondly, if anyone can take all of these features and pop them into ONE racing game..it's PD.

 

[LJ11]

TOCA on PS2 says hello.

Admittedly, I totally forget about TOCA. Wasn't it 30fps? Regardless, if Polyphony can pull all this off, with a newer/faster physics engine, 60fps, and with the same graphical fidelity as GT:HD I will tip my hat. Even if the graphics only manage to match Forza 2, with most of these features in tact at 60fps, I will take it in a heart beat.

 

[PS360]

Ok so uh... what's going on with the online mode?

 

[Ether_Snake]

3 months to make 1 car is ridiculous. I'm sure there are a lot more in those "3 months" than just modeling the thing. Comon.

 

[frAntic_Frog]

online car swapping >>>> damage

i just want GT5 to have a nice featured online structure with races and car trading....that is a lot more important to me than damage.

 

[Ploid 3.0]

online car swapping >>>> damage

i just want GT5 to have a nice featured online structure with races and car trading....that is a lot more important to me than damage.

Pink slip races would be hawt. Well people would do the backup save trick to dupe cars, hmmm? Anyway, GT2 was awesome. Oh you could have random prizes per high stakes races in a VF4-5 type of way. Get the blood pumping, and find out the prize was a custom logo that you can only obtain in rank races. I really want online GT, it's all I look foward to

 

[Baryn]

I can't wait to see how the true GT5 looks.

 

[RaijinFY]

- Toutes les voitures et tous les circuits de GT4 seront présents dans le nouveau GT.

Every car and race from GT4 will be there in the new GT. They didnt say it will be included in GT5. So maybe they were talking about a GT4.5 or something like that, a game using GT4's engine.

 

[Yixian]

I've never played a GT game, and couldn't turn a corner in GT:HD without coming almost to a complete stop, but the hype surrounding this game is so immense, and rabid fanboyism toward it is so expected of me as a European, that I am becoming involuntarily ecstatic about this game.

 

[antiloop]

I am excited.

 

[mrklaw]

rallisport 2 had cars rolling. Rolling a lot. Real licensed cars too I think.

as for manufacturers not wanting their cars misrepresented, what about banging into flimsy plastic tape barriers and just bouncing off unharmed? Thats not realistic.

 

[cilonen]

Pretty sure GT5 can come out whenever it feels like it and do just fine.

Yep, TBH it'd probably do even better coming out a while later so they don't directly compete for sales making it more likely racer fans can afford to enjoy both.

 

[SealSqueal]

Well another counter to the manufacturer argument was the Dodge Viper game from a few years back, you smash the absolute crap out of the cars in that. It was most stupidly fun racing game I ever played.

Hope Kaz can get his way and implement rolling.

 

[PjotrStroganov]

Every other racing sim allows for it

Probably without official support from manufacturers. A game like GTR has famous brands but also has the luxury of being supported by the FIAA. Other sims just have imaginary brands (LFS).



Forza 2 for instance is bound by the same restrictions (someone correct me if I'm wrong). AFAIK, BMW didn't even want their cars to be in the game. Via a loophole some BMW's have been included, but others like the M5 aren't even in the game. Probably because of the inclusion of damage in the game.

 

[Blimblim]

rallisport 2 had cars rolling. Rolling a lot. Real licensed cars too I think.

You see Rally cars rolling in real life very often, it's part of the whole Rally experience that they can flip if the driver makes a mistake. The licensed cars were all Rally cars, not just cars you could buy yourself.
And for the same reason, it seems that only race cars will have damage in GT5, since there is much less if any limitation to what you can do with such cars.

 

[Yoboman]

It's surprising they haven't lifted the lid on this one already though. GT3 was revealed well before PS2's launch, and it was one of the most hyped game I can ever remember (15 million sales didn't come from nowhere)

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

Well another counter to the manufacturer argument was the Dodge Viper game from a few years back, you smash the absolute crap out of the cars in that. It was most stupidly fun racing game I ever played.

Hope Kaz can get his way and implement rolling.

1 manufacturer =! all manufacturers

This can best describe the attitude car manufacturers have towards games.

Dan Greenawalt - Head guy on Forza 2

Unfortunately, different manufacturers have radically different hang-ups. Also, the hang-ups are not proportional to the real-world prestige of the brand or its importance to the Forza franchise. I'm not going to name names, but I will rant a little bit.

One American manufacturer will allow damage all day, but is adamant about cars not rolling over. We have several other manufacturers that will only allow roll-overs if all of the others agree first – hellofa Catch 22. One of our European marks can't be used in PR materials as solo, winning or losing. It must always be pictured with other cars and dead even with them. Another European brand will allow painting and decals, but we can’t allow players to put “thunder” on the side of the car. I’m not even sure what that means. I assumed it meant lightning, but when I asked that specific question, the representative was very insistent: “no thunder”.

We have brands that charge ridiculous fees and make pretty "meh" cars. We got very popular brands that make awesome cars and charge next to nothing. Some brands are dead set against DLC. Other brands are willing to sponsor DLC.

There is a huge difference in how thorough each brand is when approving the car renders. On version 1, we accidentally submitted a car render from one Japanese manufacturer to its rival as one of their own cars… and they actually approved it as their car.

As you’d expect, these licenses are usually a lawyer to lawyer affair, but sometimes I get involved so we can escalate the matter higher up in the company. Some brands control other brands. Some brands hire outside licensing companies. Other brands have a licensing division within their legal or marketing departments. Sometimes different regions of a brand control the licensing, but usually it’s at a corporate level.

We have one European manufacturer that allows damage and rolling over, but is fairly unreasonable about upgrades and painting - core features to Forza. Truth is, I've spent 80% of my licensing time with just this brand. All that, and we still only got the licenses signed for half of the cars that we built from that brand. And yes, that means we spent months building cars that will never make see the light of day. I had to do back flips just to keep the small group of their cars that I felt were critical – we even got Peter Moore involved with this brand to help us pitch a higher level of partnership.

In the end, it’s all about building a partnership – which takes time. The key is to show them that we have passion for their brand and will defend it. It helps that we make a simulator – they know our goal is to achieve reality and celebrate their brand in a franchise, not use their brand to sell a quick product."

 

[cilonen]

Dan Greenawalt - Head guy on Forza 2

...

Very interesting read. I noted in TDU that you can't custom paint any Ferrari machinery. I'd be willing to bet it's them who won't let you upgrade too.

I can knd of see the manufacturers point about not being misrepresented, but when in real life you have people willing to do this kind of thing:

it's kind of a moot point.

I appreciate driving games where i get to buy a car to the exact manufacturer's specs and choose from their color charts, but I'd also like to buy a model where I can customise it.

 

[Visualante]

Is this the French localisation of EDGE? (Future is the same publisher)

If true then perhaps EDGE has a GT5 exclusive.

 

[solarplexus]

Can anybody confirm the report?