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GTA VI should only run at 30fps on PS5 Pro, says Digital Foundry

Saber

Member
Honestly its more like waiting and see, but I wouldn't be surprised.

But it will run 60 on series S, right?

omZyr0v.jpeg
 

GoldenEye98

posts news as their odd job
No, it didn't.

One X had a 30% faster CPU than One, and even that only got a resolution bump. No performance changers.
tbh sometimes Xbox One X had worse performance than PS4 Pro because of the even larger gap between the CPU and GPU and trying to render at a higher level

makes you wonder what might happen with PS5 Pro with no CPU changes at all. fps could theoretically dip if it's trying to render a lot more in cpu-intense areas.
 
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GHG

Member
That's the thing, R* are the type of devs to not offer a 60fps mode, even if it is possible.

That I don't disagree with.

They could have given consoles (even the last gen refresh consoles) a 60fps patch for RDR2 but for some bizarre reason they haven't.

 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
That's the thing, R* are the type of devs to not offer a 60fps mode, even if it is possible.
Agreed. If anything, truthfully, it would be a monetary reason on the backend, not a technical one.

Need that remaster for PS6, after all.
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
That I don't disagree with.

They could have given consoles (even the last gen refresh consoles) a 60fps patch for RDR2 but for some bizarre reason they haven't.

This is why


“I’m not sure there’ll be a bigger part of the strategy. Remastering has always been a part of the strategy.

That strategy being,
muneh-rdr2.gif
 

adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
That I don't disagree with.

They could have given consoles (even the last gen refresh consoles) a 60fps patch for RDR2 but for some bizarre reason they haven't.


Why patch it when they will sell it to you for $79.99 next gen.
 

PaintTinJr

Member
I haven't referred to SM2 2 of the last 3 posts lol, it was just one example of a recent game that hammered CPU.

There's a lot of other reasons to assume VI will not have a 60 fps mode.

Just going by R*'s track record, they've preferred fidelity over performance in console releases, so I don't think they're the kind of devs who will do a stripped down version to try and do a Performance mode.
What? Like Cerny announcing that 3/4 of all PlayStation gamers are choosing performance frame-rate mode over fidelity?

Is it logical to assume the words Cerny said about creators needing more performance for their visions (paraphrasing obviously) and the trifecta of features in the Pro to help deliver higher fidelity with performance wasn't in reference to PlayStation's most important 3rd party creator R*, also?
 
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adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
What? Like Cerny announcing that 3/4 of all PlayStation gamers are choosing performance frame-rate mode over fidelity?

Cerny said the intention was to bridge the gap between performance and fidelity modes. Which is what a stronger GPU and AI-upscaling affords them to do.

Is it logical to assume the words Cerny said about creators needing more performance for their visions (paraphrasing obviously) and the trifecta of features in the Pro to help deliver higher fidelity with performance wasn't in reference to PlayStation's most important 3rd party creator R*?

huh ?

If it was in reference to 'their most important 3rd party creator', they would have mentioned them there, or included GTA VI in the list of games that will for sure get PS5 Pro enhancements that they put out afterward.

You're not making any sense.

People lining up to buy GTA6 on the next 4 console generations

Make It Rain Money GIF


Jodie Foster Oscars GIF by The Academy Awards
 
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PaintTinJr

Member
Cerny said the intention was to bridge the gap between performance and fidelity modes. Which is what a stronger GPU and AI-upscaling affords them to do.
Which then means Fidelity at PS5 or better, with performance frame-rate, no? An implied at 60fps always on Pro from those words 'bridge the gap'?
If it was in reference to 'their most important 3rd party creator', they would have mentioned them there, or included GTA VI in the list of games that will for sure get PS5 Pro enhancements that they put out afterward.
Sorry, I meant to add ',also ' after R* like I've now edited. Meaning the trifecta of things applies to all publishers software including R*, no? Meaning it is far more logical to assume performance mode or frame-gen for GTA6 than not.
 
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adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Huh......you mean having a precedent could have absolutely nothing to do with the tech?

Will Smith Reaction GIF

Glasses Why Dont We Have Both GIF by nounish ⌐◨-◨



They don't have to spend extra dev time, resources on it and can just use next gen horsepower to brute force it while charging you full price again.
 

sendit

Member
Cerny said the intention was to bridge the gap between performance and fidelity modes. Which is what a stronger GPU and AI-upscaling affords them to do.
This will be something to look back (laugh) at if the GTA6 offers a performance mode on the base console. At this point in this generation, most triple A titles are offering performance modes.
 

adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
This will be something to look back (laugh) at if the GTA6 offers a performance mode on the base console. At this point in this generation, most triple A titles are offering performance modes.

It very well could. I'm just saying I don't see R* as the kind of dev who does multiple modes if it means having to do a stripped down presentation on one.
 

sendit

Member
Which then means Fidelity at PS5 or better, with performance frame-rate, no? An implied at 60fps always on Pro from those words 'bridge the gap'?

Sorry, I meant to add ',also ' after R* like I've now edited. Meaning the trifecta of things applies to all publishers software including R*, no? Meaning it is far more logical to assume performance mode or frame-gen for GTA6 than not.
Not necessarily. The intent is to remove this option (performance or fidelity) for games that have this which means adding a third option (Pro), that bridges the two together.

The most disappointing thing to come out of the PS5 Pro Presentation is the lack of a native Frame Generation solution. Huge miss IMO. The Lossless Scaling (frame gen) developer needs to be given a blank check from Sony.
 
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PaintTinJr

Member
It very well could. I'm just saying I don't see R* as the kind of dev who does multiple modes if it means having to do a stripped down presentation on one.
Which based on the numbers (75% of 50M console buyers want 60fps and would like a Pro, even if probably less than half buy) dropping performance mode from base PS5 games and doing them at 60fps on the Pro then drives Pro sales incentive and PS6 sales later too IMO.

Either way DF are either trying to downplay the Pro, or have just brain farted their poor reasoning for this one/
 
Thats only on the assumption that the base game doesnt run at 60. Im pretty sure i saw a leaked video of the game running at 60 fps on the ps5.

Yes, the CPU is weak but its not that weak. it runs at 3.5 Ghz, has 16 threads, and is roughly 7x more powerful than the jaguar CPUs. Games like Space Marine 2, Dragons Dogma, Gotham Knights and Starfield are made be developers who dont have the resources rockstar does to max out these CPUs. Just because we see a lot of NPCs doing their own thing doesnt mean Rockstar cant figure out how to multithread the CPU properly. Most games nowadays are woefully single threaded anyway. And as bad as the Zen 2 is compared to the Zen 4 CPUs, its really not that bad compared to jaguar and should be enough for massive 3000 person studios like Rockstar enough to push it.

Lets just wait and see what the base game runs at.
Hold on your horses Snake. 3-4x more powerful than jaguar is the accepted number. Which is already a lot for a CPU. This is the reason all games (bar a handful) run at 60fps on PS5.
 
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Fess

Member
That's the thing, R* are the type of devs to not offer a 60fps mode, even if it is possible.
RDR2 ran at 60fps on Stadia, so don’t rule it out, if they can get GTA6 running at 30fps on Series S there should be some headroom for PS5 Pro.
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Hold on your horses Snake. 3-4x more powerful than jaguar is the accepted number. Which is already a lot for a CPU. This is the reason all games (bar a handful) run at 60fps on PS5.
Richard did some tests that ive posted here before. And he was testing using 3.2, not the 3.5 Ghz we ended up getting.

atIAcy5.jpeg

Clock for clock at 2.3GHz, Cinebench delivers a 2.24x improvement in single-thread erformance, and across four cores, it's a 3.4 times boost to performance compared to Jaguar. Factor in the mooted 3.2GHz frequency of Zen 2, and we're getting a 4.7 times improvement. Remember this is just one workload and limited one too, one that doesn't tap into the new architectural features of the Zen 2 core. Stacking up our projected octo-core Jaguar results against the 3700X with all cores and threads enabled and we retain the 4.7 times improvement to performance against our surrogate Xbox One X score, rising to 6.7 against our stand-in PlayStation 4. And just to stress again, this is an imperfect test - a very basic benchmark that just gives a small hint of the vast increase in performance we should get from the new consoles.

Just looking at the specs ignoring all the zen 2 IPC gains, you have 2x more threads running at 2.2x more speeds. Right off the bat, you are at over 4x already. its not surprising that there would be more power available switching over from the crappy jaguar architecture to zen 2.

The real problem is proper multithreading and utilizing each thread without having them wait on each other. almost no PC games do this well. but things are getting better. Epic has already made substantial upgrades to the UE5 engine getting almost an 80% increase in the Matrix Awakens demo on the zen 2 cpu included in the XSX console. if Epic can find 80% more performance from the same shitty CPUs included in consoles then Rockstar devs can as well.
 

Crayon

Member
That's the point, the CPU is a known quantity. There's no guessing.

It definitely is, but the game itself is not. We saw shitloads of character on screen with amazing animation, but we don't know how many cycles that all takes or even if the final game is going to reach quite that level. Without getting to see recommended pc specs, I won't be confident either way until rockstar just comes out and says it. It could break either way. Actually I'd be inclined to believe some solid leakers, too. DF though? Ha.
 

Ozriel

M$FT
GTAVI is running at 60fps, no doubt about it. It'll do it on the base PS5 just not at 4k. The PS5 Pro will run it for sure. If it doesn't, then it's a colossal waste of money they should've never even bothered building. So many people will cop a Pro just for GTAVI.


ah. Now i understand why so many of you are upset over this non-issue.

Which based on the numbers (75% of 50M console buyers want 60fps and would like a Pro, even if probably less than half buy) dropping performance mode from base PS5 games and doing them at 60fps on the Pro then drives Pro sales incentive

Either way DF are either trying to downplay the Pro, or have just brain farted their poor reasoning for this one/

Why would any of that be of any benefit or relevance to Rockstar? Nobody's going to skip GTA 6 over 30fps, and it's no real benefit to them if it drives Pro sales.

Why would you think an assumption about CPU requirements for GTA 6 is 'downplaying the Pro' in any way?
 

LiquidMetal14

hide your water-based mammals
WAT?!?

so what is the point of PS5 Pro really?
As if this is from the devs themselves. Let the devs push the high fidelity at 30 or push even higher 60 in a perf mode. It will not hurt you and your important life. And I will be ok too. When that game comes out, those of us with a Pro will enjoy it a little more. People will have to get through these trying times. Maybe make a Discord support group of a local AA. I know some good places in California, Michigan, and Florida. If you leave my name you can get a good discount. Just make sure they are not booked because there's things like bingo night and some city meetings. They are always upgrading the facilities as well.
 

Taycan77

Neophyte
My gut feeling is GTAVI will have a 60fps mode even on base PS5.

The market has changed and many are happy to see visual fidelity and resolutions slashed just to hit 60fps (or near it).
 

Eszti

Banned
it will have a 60 fps mode. if not then at least a 40 fps mode for 120 hz tvs. unless they dont do it and sell an updated version for the next console 10 years later :messenger_tears_of_joy:

rdr 2 60 bucks 60 fps version will come one day
 

PaintTinJr

Member
ah. Now i understand why so many of you are upset over this non-issue.



Why would any of that be of any benefit or relevance to Rockstar? Nobody's going to skip GTA 6 over 30fps, and it's no real benefit to them if it drives Pro sales.

Why would you think an assumption about CPU requirements for GTA 6 is 'downplaying the Pro' in any way?
Because it then gives them an easy solution to do a paid remastered PS6 version that is even better.
 

NickFire

Member
I'll need official confirmation from R before I even feel confident there will be any upgrades for the Pro. My doubt has nothing to do with the Pro. Between the lack of a 60 fps patch for RDR2, and the removal of the auction house in 2k24 (sister company I think), I just have trouble believing R will do anything extra they can't charge extra for.
 

PaintTinJr

Member
DLSS does this all the time and PSSR seems comparable tech, so why all the hyperbole from them?
I'm guessing because their Nvidia sponsor foresees the Pro as far more competition for it s 4060-4080 lineup of GPUs and beyond for the new DF led Nvidia consumer and they probably know that a Pro at £800 is a big chunk of spend potentially taking £1100-1500 new PC buyers out of buying both eventually and just falling back to console.
 
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I'll need official confirmation from R before I even feel confident there will be any upgrades for the Pro. My doubt has nothing to do with the Pro. Between the lack of a 60 fps patch for RDR2, and the removal of the auction house in 2k24 (sister company I think), I just have trouble believing R will do anything extra they can't charge extra for.
I understand that any game released for PS5 from now onwards HAS to include enhancements for the Pro, so R* won't have any choice.
 

NickFire

Member
I understand that any game released for PS5 from now onwards HAS to include enhancements for the Pro, so R* won't have any choice.
I have the same understanding as you. But I do not see any scenario where Sony refuses to certify it over that rule if Rockstar ignores it.
 
Even if it doesn't, the Pro will still be the best version out there for about 18 months.
Absolutely, regardless of the framerate it will be the best looking version of the game available until the PC version drops, or Microsoft pull a mid gen refresh out of their ass (which is almost certainly not going to happen).
 

sendit

Member
Absolutely, regardless of the framerate it will be the best looking version of the game available until the PC version drops, or Microsoft pull a mid gen refresh out of their ass (which is almost certainly not going to happen).
Microsoft can not in good faith release a mid gen refresh. They’re more than capable of it and have the financials to do so. However, they screwed themselves over by releasing the Series S and acting like the Series X was the mid-gen/pro model.
 
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I fully buy it will be 30, judging from the last 4 years - I don’t see how these consoles are even capable of the visuals we got in the trailer with the hair physics, ray tracing and all the simulations going on in an open world without serious compromises to image quality and framerate.
 
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