GTC 2019: Nvidia unveils Quake 2 RTX, made together with Q2VKPT dev

Redneckerz

Those long posts don't cover that red neck boy
Jun 25, 2018
3,451
2,938
505
The stillness of time.
Introduction:

Remember this thread? Christoph Schied released Quake 2 VKPT back in January, delivering a path traced solution to a classic game, free for download. Digital Foundry ran with it and did a video piece. At GTC 2019, Nvidia unveiled Quake 2 RTX, an improved take on Quake 2 VKPT, which will be released on Github soon.

PR Blurb:

2VKPT is the basis for future research, and a platform for more ray tracing goodness. So, we reached out shortly after Q2VKPT’s release to ask if our own ray tracing experts, many of whom he worked with previously, could develop some additions. He said yes, and this week NVIDIA is presenting the newly-created Quake II RTX with Christoph at GDC 2019.

Running on a Vulkan renderer, with support for Linux, Quake II RTX is a pure ray-traced game. That means all lighting, reflections, shadows and VFX are ray-traced, with no traditional effects or techniques utilized.


“But what’s new with Quake II RTX compared to Q2VKPT?”, you ask. A lot. We’ve introduced real-time, controllable time of day lighting, with accurate sunlight and indirect illumination; refraction on water and glass; emissive, reflective and transparent surfaces; normal and roughness maps for added surface detail; particle and laser effects for weapons; procedural environment maps featuring mountains, sky and clouds, which are updated when the time of day is changed; a flare gun for illuminating dark corners where enemies lurk; an improved denoiser; SLI support (hands-up if you rolled with Voodoo 2 SLI back in the day); Quake 2 XP high-detail weapons, models and textures; optional NVIDIA Flow fire, smoke and particle effects, and much more!

Looking at the screenshots, you’ll see physically-based materials with reflections; refraction, emissive textures, hard and soft shadows; indirect diffuse lighting; dynamic effect lighting; dynamic weapon effects; and real-time controllable time of day. All running in real-time for the first time on a GeForce RTX graphics card.

What’s more, Quake II RTX is running with NVIDIA VKRay (also known as VK_NV_ray_tracing), a Vulkan extension that allows any developer using Vulkan to add ray tracing effects to their games. VKRay supports all the goodies seen here and in RTX ray-traced titles, and is game ready for Vulkan releases on Linux and other supported Vulkan platforms.

Screens:









Offscreen video (Official video will follow):



More info:
https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/news/quake-ii-rtx-ray-tracing-vulkan-vkray-geforce-rtx/
http://brechpunkt.de/q2vkpt/
 
Last edited:

Ivellios

Member
Mar 26, 2015
1,114
457
345
Brazil
This is amazing really.

Imagine if developers started to make remaster of older games with ray tracing along with better resolutions
 

Shifty.

Gold Member
Sep 25, 2015
6,015
3,701
445
Somewhere in space
Amazing. I can see this research having big benefits for raytracing as a whole if it scales gracefully with poly count.

It would be good to know exactly what hardware this is being run on.
 
Last edited:

The Janitor

Member
Jun 29, 2011
2,353
126
500
Oh man, I recently played through Quake 2 with the XP mod. If I had known this was coming I would have waited.
I hope this includes the expansions cause I haven't played those yet.
 

Tarin02543

Member
Oct 14, 2007
2,172
74
930
Since Nvidia is going to make my 1060 capable of ray tracing i can't wait to try it out with that.
 

Dontero

Member
Apr 19, 2018
1,195
1,047
275
This is amazing really.

Imagine if developers started to make remaster of older games with ray tracing along with better resolutions


The first thing i noticed about Q2 raytracing is that it doesn't fit game and all atmosphere is gone.
Ray tracing is great tech but you can't just take old game and use ray tracing or new techniques.

It would require first completely to remake assets.
 
Jan 7, 2018
477
289
195
Wth you're talking about :messenger_grinning_squinting: RTX makes the game look good instead of total garbage. Im sure many old games would benefit
 

Shifty.

Gold Member
Sep 25, 2015
6,015
3,701
445
Somewhere in space
:messenger_tears_of_joy:

I wish I still had the version of this meme with oversaturated ENB and ReShade panels. That one was too true.

The first thing i noticed about Q2 raytracing is that it doesn't fit game and all atmosphere is gone.
(...)
It would require first completely to remake assets.
That's pretty much the nature of trying to prettify old games without new geometry.

Ray tracing is great tech but you can't just take old game and use ray tracing or new techniques.
Raytracing and art style are not the same thing. You could say the same thing about rasterizer-based Quake source ports like Darkplaces that add full dynamic lighting, fancy particles and various other modern effects while retaining the original assets.

The point here is that it's using no rasterization and looking pretty while running at a playable framerate. You could faithfully imitate the original Q2 renderer's behaviour using RTX, but it wouldn't make for a very impressive tech demo.
 
Last edited:

Redneckerz

Those long posts don't cover that red neck boy
Jun 25, 2018
3,451
2,938
505
The stillness of time.


The first thing i noticed about Q2 raytracing is that it doesn't fit game and all atmosphere is gone.
Ray tracing is great tech but you can't just take old game and use ray tracing or new techniques.

It would require first completely to remake assets.
Good thing this RTX port leverages PBR materials and rendering and high quality Q2XP models that are affected by that pipeline. So atleast we are halfway there.

I do think lightshafts ruin the alien like look the original has, though. Still, the port looks incredible.
 

JohnnyFootball

The Last of Us may be third person, but it is hardly third person.
Jan 20, 2014
8,372
1,360
595
Since Nvidia is going to make my 1060 capable of ray tracing i can't wait to try it out with that.
If the early RTX demos of Q2 were any indication, a 2060 wouldn't run it well.
 

Leonidas

"Ask me about computers"
Mar 6, 2007
1,510
881
1,235
Good stuff, hope they release this enhanced version on Steam/Bethesda launcher or wherever. Hoping we see more things like this now that there will be tens of millions of ray-tracing capable GPUs with next months driver update :lollipop_smiling_face_eyes:
 

Chittagong

Gold Member
Jun 8, 2004
17,852
974
1,690
Looks absolutely amazing. Really shows what a game changer raytrafing will be. Seems you don’t need much geometry at all for a game to look great. Are next gen consoles supposed to have RT?
 

LucidFeuer

anti-white advocate, loves to call people racist
Jan 28, 2018
860
339
325
So keep in mind that Quake Ray-traced has been around for 20 years, which is in fact the reason why they're using this game to demo RTX.

Don't expect to have neither this result nor it being implemented on any new games soon. Also RT actually ruins the art-direction, colors, lightning and overall design or mood, by that I mean that just using RTX makes for a terrible difference in style, but also means art direction will be way harder with RT as well as 10x better and immersif when developer start mastering it...in 8-10 years from now.
 

Redneckerz

Those long posts don't cover that red neck boy
Jun 25, 2018
3,451
2,938
505
The stillness of time.
Looks absolutely amazing. Really shows what a game changer raytrafing will be. Seems you don’t need much geometry at all for a game to look great. Are next gen consoles supposed to have RT?
Next gen consoles could have RT, but if they will, it will be limited compared to accelerated raytracing as shown here.

So keep in mind that Quake Ray-traced has been around for 20 years, which is in fact the reason why they're using this game to demo RTX.
How is that the reason? Where is this stated? Quake RT was a Intel research project to see how far CPU based raytracing could go, done in advance of their Larrabee project which was supposed to have RTRT aswell.

Don't expect to have neither this result nor it being implemented on any new games soon.
Simply because those games use a hybrid approach to RT, not full scene.

Also RT actually ruins the art-direction, colors, lightning and overall design or mood, by that I mean that just using RTX makes for a terrible difference in style,
It does not have to be, see VKPT. Some of the RTX additions here change the scene to a more accurate and realistic representation, but the game's artstyle is less fitting for it. A game designed with RTX in mind will no doubt have less issues with this, simply because developers will consider their artstyle with RT in mind. John Carmack and Sons definitely didn't think of raytracing back in 1997 when designing Quake 2.

but also means art direction will be way harder with RT as well as 10x better and immersif when developer start mastering it...in 8-10 years from now.
How will art direction be harder? RT is actually there to simplfy development since you won't have to take loopholes around to get where you want to be. Only difference, and why it has not been in use in games before, is computational costs.
 

Sp3eD

Member
Jun 6, 2004
4,872
82
1,280
I just want rocket arena 2 to work with this. There were some beautiful levels in that mod.
 

LucidFeuer

anti-white advocate, loves to call people racist
Jan 28, 2018
860
339
325
How will art direction be harder? RT is actually there to simplfy development since you won't have to take loopholes around to get where you want to be. Only difference, and why it has not been in use in games before, is computational costs.
It may, eventually, simplify development but it's not given since the hybrid pipeline will be more complex to integrate. But it will make art direction more challenging, in that it will make it more rich and precise: without the excuse of polygon, texture, lightning and effect limitations, creating a style that is realistically rendered but highly stylistic to match colors, effect, textures etc...together will be a bit harder.

Generally working with pre-rendered 3D is more complicated than in real-time (save for optimisation which is a hassle) because you have to be way more precise in the details, their matching and various arrangements. But it will look amazing.
 

JordanN

Junior Member
Apr 21, 2012
16,903
2,748
540
Brampton, Ontario
It may, eventually, simplify development but it's not given since the hybrid pipeline will be more complex to integrate. But it will make art direction more challenging, in that it will make it more rich and precise: without the excuse of polygon, texture, lightning and effect limitations, creating a style that is realistically rendered but highly stylistic to match colors, effect, textures etc...together will be a bit harder.

Generally working with pre-rendered 3D is more complicated than in real-time (save for optimisation which is a hassle) because you have to be way more precise in the details, their matching and various arrangements. But it will look amazing.
I concur with this.

People might look at ray tracing like it's a switch of a button, and while there are some areas that is true, it can also be a mathematical puzzle.
Here is an example of settings I'm using for a render I'm working on.



It doesn't represent every ray tracing scenario, but compared to games, there is a lot more attention to detail when trying to find a balance between simulating rays of light in a scene and generating a noise free image without resulting in render times that could go on for days.

The good people at Pixar also created a website that shows the same level of thought process that is required when rendering every single frame of a movie.

http://sciencebehindpixar.org/pipeline/rendering/workstation-activity
 
Last edited:

brian0057

Member
Jun 18, 2018
355
488
255
Give me Thief II: The Metal Age and Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory with this.
For stealth games, RTX looks like a god send.
 

Redneckerz

Those long posts don't cover that red neck boy
Jun 25, 2018
3,451
2,938
505
The stillness of time.
It may, eventually, simplify development but it's not given since the hybrid pipeline will be more complex to integrate.
How can you illustrate this?

But it will make art direction more challenging, in that it will make it more rich and precise: without the excuse of polygon, texture, lightning and effect limitations, creating a style that is realistically rendered but highly stylistic to match colors, effect, textures etc...together will be a bit harder.

Generally working with pre-rendered 3D is more complicated than in real-time (save for optimisation which is a hassle) because you have to be way more precise in the details, their matching and various arrangements. But it will look amazing.
It just means game developers will take on the workflow of what is now done by movie animators and artists. They already do that in some way considering UE4 has been used as a render engine for movies (in pre-render mode) but the fact that we can how have real time pre-vis with low res raytracing (compared to offline renderers) is a huge deal and yes, that simplifies development. Its far better having pre-vis that already approaches your final render otherwise.

I concur with this.

People might look at ray tracing like it's a switch of a button, and while there are some areas that is true, it can also be a mathematical puzzle.
Here is an example of settings I'm using for a render I'm working on.



It doesn't represent every ray tracing scenario, but compared to games, there is a lot more attention to detail when trying to find a balance between simulating rays of light in a scene and generating a noise free image without resulting in render times that could go on for days.

The good people at Pixar also created a website that shows the same level of thought process that is required when rendering every single frame of a movie.

http://sciencebehindpixar.org/pipeline/rendering/workstation-activity
And you think current rasterization with its light probes and lightmaps is much easier, heh. No, its not an easy switch, but like PBR, it is there to easify development. When you don't have to rely on hacks anymore and can simply use what is already used in the VFX and movie industries, it removes a ton of overhead that is now currently wasted on rasterization hacks.
 

JordanN

Junior Member
Apr 21, 2012
16,903
2,748
540
Brampton, Ontario
And you think current rasterization with its light probes and lightmaps is much easier, heh. No, its not an easy switch, but like PBR, it is there to easify development. When you don't have to rely on hacks anymore and can simply use what is already used in the VFX and movie industries, it removes a ton of overhead that is now currently wasted on rasterization hacks.
Compared to ray tracing, yes.

I don't want to go into boring tech jargon, but the more advance graphics get, the more fine tuning and attention to detail is required to create an image that passes the "uncanny valley" test.

You also have performance to consider. Lightmapping is incredibly friendly for making a game target 60fps since it's all pre-calcuated beforehand. With real time ray tracing, you're now having to predict just how expensive each lightsource actually is or why do you end up with so much noise on a material, object or even post processing effect.

I highly recommend looking at the Pixar lab since just typing the tech stuff in words is boring and might not get the point across completely. But it seriously is a much complex process than we give it credit for.

http://sciencebehindpixar.org/pipeline/rendering/workstation-activity
 
Last edited:

Redneckerz

Those long posts don't cover that red neck boy
Jun 25, 2018
3,451
2,938
505
The stillness of time.
Compared to ray tracing, yes.

I don't want to go into boring tech jargon, but the more advance graphics get, the more fine tuning and attention to detail is required to create an image that passes the "uncanny valley" test.
Lets first get to that uncanny valley stantard first.

You also have performance to consider. Lightmapping is incredibly friendly for making a game target 60fps since it's all pre-calcuated beforehand. With real time ray tracing, you're now having to predict just how expensive each lightsource actually is or why do you end up with so much noise on a material, object or even post processing effect.
I mean, my point still stands. There will be a gradual changeover as technology progresses.

I highly recommend looking at the Pixar lab since just typing the tech stuff in words is boring and might not get the point across completely. But it seriously is a much complex process than we give it credit for.

http://sciencebehindpixar.org/pipeline/rendering/workstation-activity
That link contains no info.
 

JordanN

Junior Member
Apr 21, 2012
16,903
2,748
540
Brampton, Ontario
Lets first get to that uncanny valley stantard first.
I mean, my point still stands. There will be a gradual changeover as technology progresses.
Well yes, but I'm saying that "changeover"is going to take a while before it actually becomes both game and art friendly.

Edit: By the way, current real time ray tracing isn't actually production/movie quality. In some ways, it still is worse than lightmapping (i.e only 1 ray is fired, with few or no multibounce. There is also more noise/specular aliasing whereas lightmapping precalculates all this information and saves it in a texture).
When games are trying to be both photorealistic and run at 60fps, then lightmapping clearly provides an easier path.

The first RTX demos shown are on high end PC workstation and they still struggle to go past 30fps. Expecting it go mainstream on even lesser hardware (i.e mobile/PC) is going to be even farther along.

That link contains no info.
Click "launch activity".
 
Last edited:

Redneckerz

Those long posts don't cover that red neck boy
Jun 25, 2018
3,451
2,938
505
The stillness of time.
Well yes, but I'm saying that "changeover"is going to take a while before it actually becomes both game and art friendly.
I think it goes very well.

The first RTX demos shown are on high end PC workstation and they still struggle to go past 30fps. Expecting it go mainstream on even lesser hardware (i.e mobile/PC) is going to be even farther along.
Depends on the demo you are referring to.

Click "launch activity".
Causes a black screen. Thanks anyway.
 
Last edited:

Redneckerz

Those long posts don't cover that red neck boy
Jun 25, 2018
3,451
2,938
505
The stillness of time.
It was Project Pica Pica and it very much looked like it was running at 12fps.

AFAIK this is pure raytraced and not rasterized.

I've also brought up in the past that for Battlefield V to use ray tracing, you had to sacrifice 4K resolution.
BFV only uses RT incrementally. Metro Exodus has been shown to be able to work in 4K with RT on.
 
Last edited: