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[Dunki]

Worst of all is that they are now throwing TB under the bus as well while genna has to see all of this from the sidelines. It’s fucking disgusting what Forbes did.

 

[GrimDarkDarrel]

Jessica Price sounds like a handful. In article update #2 they published excerpts of an email she sent them. If anyone wondered whether getting canned caused her to learn the right lessons from the situation, I think not.

By the time that guy came along, I was so tired of having random people explain my job to me in company spaces where I had to just smile and nod that it was like, ‘No. Not here. Not in my space.'

She starts off quite sympathetic. You need thick skin to handle public exposure and I could excuse a lot from someone who acknowledges when they don't have that and tries to do better.

But then it starts to read differently. Not owning her part at all.

She also discussed the chilling effect this may have on other ArenaNet employees:

“The message is very clear, especially to women at the company: if Reddit wants you fired, we’ll fire you,” she told Kotaku. “Get out there and make sure the players have a good time. And make sure you smile while they hit you.”

This is needless drama and misrepresenting the situation. While it is possible some companies in very specific circumstances would support an employee who had publicly clashed with a customer, that is the exception not the rule, and would only happen when the customer was very obviously in the wrong. Deroir was most certainly not in the wrong. She brought this on herself.

“He fired me personally, and the meeting was mostly him venting his feelings at me,” she told The Verge. “I understand being afraid when you see the Reddit mob coming for you, but if people with less power can weather it—and we do, regularly—so can he.”

Lot of managers out there think it's ok to vent on people. Again she has my sympathy for that, but expecting him to "weather" a situation she created needlessly is pretty tone-deaf. As is that she is complaining about someone venting to her about problems she caused by "venting" publicly. Again, not defending the manager but she is not seeing the situation with a useful perspective here.

Price commented on how she was treated at ArenaNet, saying that her outspoken social media habits were well-known and, until this incident, never a problem.

Outspoken people don't get it. They will be tolerated until they aren't anymore. That isn't people turning on and betraying them, that's what happens when they ignore all the warning signs until it's too late. Being tolerated doesn't mean learning to communicate professionally was never warranted, and it's mostly just an excuse to never grow up.

According to Price, during her initial interview with ArenaNet she explained that she was "loud about these issues on social media and had no intention of shutting up." At the time, she says ArenaNet "reassured [her] that they 'admired [her] willingness to speak truth to power.'"

If that's how she goes through life, that's fair enough, she should simply come to expect that any job she gets is inevitably doomed. If speaking truth to power means that much to her who am I to tell her not to. I do think it's just self-indulgent wankery that doesn't accomplish anything though. I also don't think it accurately describes what she actually did. Deroir isn't "power." He is a streamer and she hit Submit when she shouldn't have. Employed people don't get to make that mistake, usually.

TL;DR At the end of the day she's not awful by human standards. She made a mistake, paid the consequences and learned nothing from the experience. Ahhh humans.

 

[GrimDarkDarrel]

The Resetera Topic is already lit

What gets you banned and what doesn't:

Damn, I was never too clear on the history between gaf and resetera. Never even considered leaving gaf when the shakeup happened, and was mostly puzzled about why this place seemed to have become so tolerant overnight. Now I understand. Some parts of the community are pretty radical in their defense of their ideals, and it seems to be largely that crowd who left.

Especially that ban about "attempt to discredit feminism." How that reads to me is "anyone who does not share my exact sensibilities is trash." Reminds of that warframe mod who referred to a bunch of their users as "transphobic pieces of shit" for the Nezha trap meme. I get where they were coming from, and they probably see themselves as heroic, but I see this sort of thing as a slightly more humane form of self-indulgent toxicity. When alt-righters post about leftists being virtue signalling angry SJW's, people like the mods on resetera and the misandrist mod from Warframe are the kind of people who push them further into their entrenched bubbles and arm them with real things to be angry about.

 

[Chiggs]

Holy fucking shit at that ResetEra thread. I’m embarrassed I’ve even posted over there.

 

[ZeroGravity]

This is a really good example of how any side will happily ignore facts and craft their own version of the truth to push an agenda.

 

[Ogbert]

Holy fucking shit at that ResetEra thread. I’m embarrassed I’ve even posted over there.

And now imagine those sort of individuals in a position of actual power.

So far they've managed to overrun significant areas of academia (not the hard subjects) and large portions of the internet.

 

[Lupingosei]

I don't use the word ironic a lot, but that they use that form of disingenuous arguments against their own "people" their own community and attack gamers in a gaming forum is quite ironic I think.

The open hostility against fans, nerds, and gamers on a board about gaming and fan culture is impressive. Also telling people, you can not give feedback to a professional game developer when you are not a professional yourself on a gaming board is just too much. The irony meters are off the charts.

 

[Schrödinger's cat]

Holy fucking shit at that ResetEra thread. I’m embarrassed I’ve even posted over there.

I got a 1-week ban for commenting on the level of overreaction to BFV.
I'm pretty certain the irony of their action was lost on them.

 

[Cato]

If that's how she goes through life, that's fair enough, she should simply come to expect that any job she gets is inevitably doomed. If speaking truth to power means that much to her who am I to tell her not to. I do think it's just self-indulgent wankery that doesn't accomplish anything though. I also don't think it accurately describes what she actually did. Deroir isn't "power." He is a streamer and she hit Submit when she shouldn't have. Employed people don't get to make that mistake, usually.

TL;DR At the end of the day she's not awful by human standards. She made a mistake, paid the consequences and learned nothing from the experience. Ahhh humans.

This is the second time in a row where she has spazzed out very publicly against her employer after they had to fire her for gross misconduct.
Once is a data point. Twice is a pattern.

She is a liability and time bomb at this point. I don't think she will get any job in the industry ever again

 

[Dunki]

This is the second time in a row where she has spazzed out very publicly against her employer after they had to fire her for gross misconduct.
Once is a data point. Twice is a pattern.

She is a liability and time bomb at this point. I don't think she will get any job in the industry ever again

a job as writer for Waypoint

 

[Grinchy]

a job as writer for Waypoint

Wow, now that's a perfect fit. That's so good that it's hard to imagine it not happening.

 

[Nikodemos]

To add my 0.02 cents, she seems like she has a chip on her shoulder. Maybe due to unpleasant previous life experiences, maybe due to a general disaffection. However, she failed to realize that 1) when you work for media (and games are media) your 'private' social account isn't private; and 2) the nail that sticks out only gets to stick out as long as it doesn't catch somebody's pants on.

What Deroir said was not condescending. Besides, it's not like experts in other fields don't get random unsolicited suggestions from average joes all the time, and he's not an average joe. And her messages came on the heels of a GW2 AMA. so the idea that people shouldn't reply to her 'private' (see above) tweets doesn't hold water.
To me, it feels like she had accumulated a number of (likely legitimate) professional frustrations (possibly regarding her role not being properly recognized) and snapped at what she might've considered yet another attempt at second-guessing her. Problem is, you can't do that as a corporate drone. Yes, there are notable media figures who go off their rockers occasionally, but they own the place they work at.

Also, with the risk of sounding ultra-conservative, women need to set expectations for themselves. Yes, things are notably better than 15 (or even 10) years ago, but games are still somewhat of a men's club. So, especially in a large corporation with a lot of male colleagues, women will get second-guessed, belittled, erased. If the passion for games is strong enough to help bypass the bullshit, it's admirable. If, however, the grind becomes too tedious, and the multiple accumulated knocks become too stressful, it's better to leave before the stress affects one physically, and causes a strained work environment.
I admire the women who had the fortitude to say "Fuck this bullshit; I don't need this kind of aggravation in my life". It's not easy to drop something you're passionate about. However, one's mental health takes precedence over one's career, regardless of how involved with the field.

 

[PuppetMaster]

At this point she has to troll right?

She is never going to be hired in any big company again. She will never pass the background checks.

So self destructive. Hope she can eventually learn something from this and she is not screwed financially for too many years.

 

[Cato]

Wow, now that's a perfect fit. That's so good that it's hard to imagine it not happening.

I am old, so I am not fully up to speed on all you youngster slang. When I hear Waypoint, I have never been to that site, but it sounds to me like Searchlight in FO3.
Is Waypoint similar to Searchlight in that they are both populated by mindless mutants that remember when they were humans and crave humanity so much they hunt and kill humans trying to
repent their sins and become real humans again?

 

[Grinchy]

I am old, so I am not fully up to speed on all you youngster slang. When I hear Waypoint, I have never been to that site, but it sounds to me like Searchlight in FO3.
Is Waypoint similar to Searchlight in that they are both populated by mindless mutants that remember when they were humans and crave humanity so much they hunt and kill humans trying to
repent their sins and become real humans again?

There's definitely an analogy that could be written around that lol

 

[Scopa]

I am old, so I am not fully up to speed on all you youngster slang. When I hear Waypoint, I have never been to that site, but it sounds to me like Searchlight in FO3.

Is Waypoint similar to Searchlight in that they are both populated by mindless mutants that remember when they were humans and crave humanity so much they hunt and kill humans trying to repent their sins and become real humans again?

I prefer to think of Waypoint as akin to a group of nerds that go to anime conventions and D&D “parties”. Where the portly, snarky, loud-mouthed leader of the pack has an exceptionally high opinion of himself because he’s really popular when surrounded by his equally socially outcast sycophants in their tiny bubble of awkward and this King of the Dorks fails to realise that he is just a pudgy, annoying geek to the rest of the world because he never has the courage to engage with it.

 

[Petrae]

She is never going to be hired in any big company again. She will never pass the background checks.

So self destructive. Hope she can eventually learn something from this and she is not screwed financially for too many years.

Any employer that hires her takes on an exceptional amount of baggage and risk. Worse, this is the second time she’s trashed an ex-employer in a very public setting. Why anyone would realistically take a chance on her potentially trashing them next is beyond me. She has proven that:

— She will not honor basic social media behavioral expectations
— She does not wish to be “silenced”
— She speaks without regard for consequence
— Her social skills are combative at best
— She will not hesitate to embarrass you publicly should the job not work out

Anyone who does hire her is doing so out of sympathy for the situation and not because it’s a move that benefits the business. Thus, any controversy that results from said hire would be as much on the employer as it would be on her.

 

[Scopa]

Anyone who does hire her is doing so out of sympathy for the situation and not because it’s a move that benefits the business.

Naughty Dog, here we come.

 

[Dr. Claus]

That’s exactly how I see these guys and their ilk. I would bet my left nut, that if you had a private convo with most of them, you’d get a completely different story.

Just so spineless. I have zero respect for anyone like this.

I used to have a lot of respect for Gerstmann and the main folk sat Giant Bomb, but it seems every other week they are doing something completely counter to what they used to, to cater to these sycophants. It saddens me. They used to be a semi-decent place for honest discussion (if a bit more on the pessimistic side). Now you can barely tell it apart from the garbage that releases from Waypoint, Kotaku, or Polygon.

And now imagine those sort of individuals in a position of actual power.

So far they've managed to overrun significant areas of academia (not the hard subjects) and large portions of the internet.

I am horrified about what I will encounter when I go to Grad School proper. I will have to teach courses and I am not looking forward to dealing with these nut jobs. Thankfully I have been in a heavily republican university for my undergrad, so these dip shits are few and far between.

 

[The Skull]

Quick check back in to the Era thread, and it's getting worse. If you point out that Jessica has a history of doing this, then you're "A fucking creep" for looking at past tweets. Try to boil it down to the actual facts and you get accused of encouraging misogyny. Mansplaining narrative is still going strong as well. Smh, I can't believe I ever considered joining that place. An echo chamber of intollerant "Progressives".

 

[Spukc]

Quick check back in to the Era thread, and it's getting worse. If you point out that Jessica has a history of doing this, then you're "A fucking creep" for looking at past tweets. Try to boil it down to the actual facts and you get accused of encouraging misogyny. Mansplaining narrative is still going strong as well. Smh, I can't believe I ever considered joining that place. An echo chamber of intollerant "Progressives".

Dude just stop checking there the site is run by insane people.What did you expect it nearly ruined neogaf.

 

[The Skull]

Dude just stop checking there the site is run by insane people.What did you expect it nearly ruined neogaf.

True. Need to stop doing it.

 

[Grinchy]

True. Need to stop doing it.

Or just go there for the comedy of it.

And check in with this thread. The hilarity is provided daily.

 

[MrHeisenbird]

She's really came off as a degenerate sociopath with an aggressive agenda to push - at the expense of her own career.

The less people like her in the industry the better. Peter Fries is a white knight beta male that should have let Price fight her own fight. THAT would have been a feminist thing to do.

Oh and Era is a joke. It's only a matter of time until that forum implodes like oldGAF.

 

[Fox Mulder]

I’m already seeing the predictable defence force in the latest wave of podcasts.

The Giant Bomb guys stumbling and mumbling their way to the victim defence. It’s hilarious listening.

So completely gutless.

not surprising. They canceled a campy 4th of July video series with games like Oregon Trail because people cried over how evil america is.

I've fallen off Giant Bomb since their glory days.

 

[DeepEnigma]

not surprising. They canceled a campy 4th of July video series with games like Oregon Trail because people cried over how evil america is.

I've fallen off Giant Bomb since their glory days.

They really did this?

Humanity is giving voices on the internet way too much power. Especially when 95%+/- (percentages from my ass but probably accurate) are wrapped in made up usernames, and avatars not representing themselves, i.e. anonymous shouting.

 

[Ogbert]

Christ alive.

I just read Miss Price’s latest twitter update.

She’s unhinged.

 

[Hendrick's]

I got a 1-week ban for commenting on the level of overreaction to BFV.
I'm pretty certain the irony of their action was lost on them.

Dude just stop checking there the site is run by insane people.What did you expect it nearly ruined neogaf.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Christ alive.

I just read Miss Price’s latest twitter update.

She’s unhinged.

Most narcissistic extremists that only operate in binary ideologies/thinking usually are.

Only difference is, now they have a platform (social media) in which they can shout at or to others like them en mass. That enriches and empowers them more.

It is literally used as a diary/journal for them, left open for all to see; where the narcissism comes in, since you feel the things you should keep to yourself more often than not, have so much importance for the world to see. And when someone goes unchecked, this mentality/behavior becomes 'normalized'. Scary when you think about it.

 

[autoduelist]

The Resetera Topic is already lit

What gets you banned and what doesn't:

Can someone explain the first Banning? Cultural pejorative? I'm assuming they are talking about `womansplaining`, which is a terrible term. But no different than mansplaining. They ban for one but not the other? I mean, I guess my interpretation has to be right , but I just don't understand how thick your sunglasses have to be to miss the issue here.

 

[iorek21]

hahahaha

ResetEra is a joke

It's like that place came directly from a Black Mirror episode or something... it's surreal

 

[Ogbert]

Can someone explain the first Banning? Cultural pejorative? I'm assuming they are talking about `womansplaining`, which is a terrible term. But no different than mansplaining. They ban for one but not the other? I mean, I guess my interpretation has to be right , but I just don't understand how thick your sunglasses have to be to miss the issue here.

What that demonstrates is that the moderator doesn't understand the term 'pejorative'.

Their other favourite misused term is 'bad faith', which they don't seem to realise relates to misrepresenting your position to gain an advantage rather than simply disagreeing with another individual.

They're not too bright.

 

[joshcryer]

"Hate movements" = Twitter feed where anyone anonymous can send you a message and you will be notified of it if you don't have the profile privated (yes even making it "followers only" will notify you, you must make it private and only people you follow to not get hate messages and even then some would leak through).

Now, the internet is a shitty place and anonymous posters are shitty ass people, but that's what the platform enables and encourages. Indeed it encourages it because when someone gets a shitty message more often than not they'll respond to it, and attention is what people love on the internet.

Anyone who takes "harassment allegations" seriously on a platform like this is ignoring the way the platform works. It's anonymous, it's open, you cannot blame any one group, for all you know it's false-flagging (and yes, that does happen, a lot of attention getters are often caught using different accounts to reply to themselves on social media spaces; I'm not alleging it here I'm simply saying you can't know for sure).

For what it's worth the RE thread is mixed, and a lot of posts in favor of Price appear to be caricatures of the hyper charged politics we have today (not sure why the mods aren't banning the obvious ones, like no one really holds some of those opinions and it's obvious catfish-esque).

 

[Paracelsus]

One of the bans is mindblowing, because a guy with a bigger and better resume was actually fired to protect another writer whose ability you can actually question given the lackluster precedents, and yet only the latter was put on a pedestal, everybody in the media is asking about her being reinstated while the guy was kicked to the curb like he's a piece of s***.

 

[DeepEnigma]

One of the bans is mindblowing, because a guy with a bigger and better resume was actually fired to protect another writer whose ability you can actually question given the lackluster precedents, and yet only the latter was put on a pedestal, everybody in the media is asking about her being reinstated while the guy was kicked to the curb like he's a piece of s***.

No, no agenda though by a certain ideology movement.

Just like how Drake is a "mass murderer", yet, Chloe, Nadine, Lara, Ellie, etc., are well... not mentioned in such fervor (if at all really) with that 'meme'.

 

[lifa-cobex]

Dude just stop checking there the site is run by insane people.What did you expect it nearly ruined neogaf.

Nearly?
They did ruin Gaf.

I'm glad Evilore was outed with the sin of being a human so they could all take the Mayflower away.
It's going to take a looong time for that brand stigma to go away from Gaf.

 

[Xaero Gravity]

Has anyone seen the thread on the other forum? Fuck me, it's a vile shit show over there.

They're a fucking parody of themselves. Absolutely pathetic.

 

[Dr. Claus]

They're a fucking parody of themselves. Absolutely pathetic.

It is hilarious at how much people defend that site. I am part of the EZA community and we have some crazy fuckers who just *love* to think Era is a godsend full of "righteous minds" who "fight on the right side of history". The people are honestly hilarious to watch as they go through mental gymnastics more confusing and elaborate than any I have seen prior.

 

[Xaero Gravity]

She is never going to be hired in any big company again. She will never pass the background checks.

So self destructive. Hope she can eventually learn something from this and she is not screwed financially for too many years.

Some development studio is going to hire her as "good" PR move. I'm almost positive.

 

[Schrödinger's cat]

One of the bans is mindblowing, because a guy with a bigger and better resume was actually fired to protect another writer whose ability you can actually question given the lackluster precedents, and yet only the latter was put on a pedestal, everybody in the media is asking about her being reinstated while the guy was kicked to the curb like he's a piece of s***.

I'm not really up on the the intricate details, so please jump in and correct me if I'm wrong, but if a woman and a man were both sacked over the same incident, I fail to see the sexism in the response to the incident.

 

[mneuro]

Some development studio is going to hire her as "good" PR move. I'm almost positive.

And I hope they make it public because I will gladly choose to avoid whatever games she works on. Nobody should treat other people the way she did, and especially not fans of your work.

 

[lifa-cobex]

Some development studio is going to hire her as "good" PR move. I'm almost positive.

She might have possibly gotten a job later down the line as something put to one side of a company.
But the more she keeps digging a grave on twitter, the more she's developing a reputation. Company's only want one thing, money. Anything that jeopardises that goal will not be taken in.

 

[MayauMiao]

Some development studio is going to hire her as "good" PR move. I'm almost positive.

Good studios no. Bad studios badly needing publicity maybe. But after her debacle I really wonder if any studios would want to touch her at all.

 

[LukeSkywater]

Remember when Giant Bomb was created because Jeff Gerstmann had some ethics and credibility? Now it's fucking sad what Jeff and Giant Bomb has become. The fun has been gone for awhile. Dropped my sub after GOTY. This week's bombcast made me unsubscribe from that too. It was a good run.

 

[Barakov]

Damn, I was never too clear on the history between gaf and resetera. Never even considered leaving gaf when the shakeup happened, and was mostly puzzled about why this place seemed to have become so tolerant overnight. Now I understand. Some parts of the community are pretty radical in their defense of their ideals, and it seems to be largely that crowd who left.

Especially that ban about "attempt to discredit feminism." How that reads to me is "anyone who does not share my exact sensibilities is trash." Reminds of that warframe mod who referred to a bunch of their users as "transphobic pieces of shit" for the Nezha trap meme. I get where they were coming from, and they probably see themselves as heroic, but I see this sort of thing as a slightly more humane form of self-indulgent toxicity. When alt-righters post about leftists being virtue signalling angry SJW's, people like the mods on resetera and the misandrist mod from Warframe are the kind of people who push them further into their entrenched bubbles and arm them with real things to be angry about.

Yeah......I'm really glad the shake up happened. They can stay over there and we can stay over here.

 

[Xaero Gravity]

Yeah......I'm really glad the shake up happened. They can stay over there and we can stay over here.

It's funny how it's not just the us vs them political bullshit that left, but even the petty console wars seems to have died down substantially and allowed for proper discussions on videos games to actually happen. Interestingly enough, console wars are pretty much filling up almost every thread over there.

Overall, GAF has just become a much less toxic and more enjoyable place to post. The fact that we don't have any crazy and overzealous Moda doesn't hurt either.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Quick check back in to the Era thread, and it's getting worse. If you point out that Jessica has a history of doing this, then you're "A fucking creep" for looking at past tweets. Try to boil it down to the actual facts and you get accused of encouraging misogyny. Mansplaining narrative is still going strong as well. Smh, I can't believe I ever considered joining that place. An echo chamber of intollerant "Progressives".

It's not one-sided at all like you're making it out to be. Stop looking for sensationalist posts (the "fucking creep" poster you're referring to was banned, by the way) and maybe read some of the other ones? The debate is pretty split with tons of people not on the side of saying Price was discriminated against because of her gender or that Deroir is a GG'er or whatever.

As an aside, it's a bit sad to see every hot topic thread on GAF these days turn into a "let's look how Era is discussing the issue" discussion. It's eerily similar to that forum that started up years ago made up of banned GAF members who spent their time talking about how shitty GAF is and using dumb slurs like "NeoFAG."

 

[Xaero Gravity]

It's not one-sided at all like you're making it out to be. Stop looking for sensationalist posts (the "fucking creep" poster you're referring to was banned, by the way) and maybe read some of the other ones? The debate is pretty split with tons of people not on the side of saying Price was discriminated against because of her gender or that Deroir is a GG'er or whatever.

As an aside, it's a bit sad to see every hot topic thread on GAF these days turn into a "let's look how Era is discussing the issue" discussion. It's eerily similar to that forum that started up years ago made up of banned GAF members who spent their time talking about how shitty GAF is and using dumb slurs like "NeoFAG."

The discussion is pretty split, but I believe the big issue going on there is that those in favor of Price seem to be taking a pretty ridiculous stance by going so far as to unfairly say Deroir harassed her and label him a misogynist. There's a ridiculous level of mental gymnastics from some just to paint Jessica Price as the victim in all of this, despite her very clear and unsavoury attitude problems.

 

[Cosmogony]

It's not one-sided at all like you're making it out to be. Stop looking for sensationalist posts (the "fucking creep" poster you're referring to was banned, by the way) and maybe read some of the other ones? The debate is pretty split with tons of people not on the side of saying Price was discriminated against because of her gender or that Deroir is a GG'er or whatever.

So you wouldn't describe a style of moderation which systematically upholds one side of the argument, systematically bans members for politely daring to disagree with the official Party line as one-sided?

That's very interesting.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

So you wouldn't describe a style of moderation which systematically upholds one side of the argument, systematically bans members for politely daring to disagree with the official Party line as one-sided?

That's very interesting.

That's not what's happening. There is no "party line." That's some bullshit you came up with.

I'm not banned and I've done nothing but vehemently disagree with the radical defenders of Price in that thread.

The discussion is pretty split, but I believe the big issue going on there is that those in favor of Price seem to be taking a pretty ridiculous stance by going so far as to unfairly say Deroir harassed her and label him a misogynist. There's a ridiculous level of mental gymnastics from some just to paint Jessica Price as the victim in all of this, despite her very clear and unsavoury attitude problems.

You're right and those people are being called out by myself and others.