• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
  • Hi Guest. We've rebooted and consolidated our Communities section, so be sure to check it out and subscribe to some threads. Thanks!

Half-Life: Alyx Anouncement Trailer

Al3x1s

Member
Nov 24, 2018
2,796
2,296
495
Well, that's the game that will make me buy a VR set.

Any recommendations for which headset to go for?
In the USA you can get an ok VR set for $200 or less (any Windows Mixed Reality set, hopefully a formerly premium model now discounted like Samsung Odyssey if you go that route, they all have the same less than ideal tracking and controllers, only HMD screen quality and build quality differs per model), a real solid one for around $350 (Oculus Rift S on Black Friday, normally $400, great tracking and great controllers) and $1000 for premium stuff (Index, impeccable tracking and finger/touch/force sensing controllers). The one thing that needs looking up is your IPD cos some sets (anything non-Index non-Odyssey) don't have a hardware IPD switch and the compatible range is smaller when software does the correction. There are a couple other choices to consider depending on particular niche circumstances like Pimax for high res/high fov or various older used kits like Rift CV1 + 3 trackers or a Vive with the intent to upgrade to Index controllers or an Oculus Quest once it proves decent for PC use with the Link software that's now in beta but if you don't wanna bother and just wanna game that's all the info you need to decide. I'd go for the happy medium.
 
Last edited:

Tesseract

Banned
Dec 7, 2008
42,676
21,015
1,490
The Pentagon
Indeed - it's good that efforts are being made to enable gaming for disabled people (there are some wonderful innovations in sim racing for instance with modified wheels for people without working legs who therefore can't use pedals, etc) but there's no such thing as a game that everyone can use. I'd bet that very few games are any good to a blind person for instance (and indeed the modern shift to touch-screens over more tactile control mechanisms in everyday life must surely be a nightmare for blind people).
this is an area i'm particularly obsessed with, expanding output visdata for people with disabilities

we need to go further
 

blly155

Member
Aug 3, 2014
10,365
2,129
580
i guess it's about time i play the exisiting Half Life games :messenger_tears_of_joy:

seriously though i didn't buy a headset just for Alyx. i just think it's cool and i've always wanted one. i have some money in the bank so why not treat myself. i'll probably pick up Alyx though
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tesseract

Tesseract

Banned
Dec 7, 2008
42,676
21,015
1,490
The Pentagon
i guess it's about time i play the exisiting Half Life games :messenger_tears_of_joy:

seriously though i didn't buy a headset just for Alyx. i just think it's cool and i've always wanted one. i have some money in the bank so why not treat myself. i'll probably pick up Alyx though
get space pirate trainer, it's absolute bliss
 
  • Like
Reactions: Katsura

Croatoan

Gold Member
Jun 24, 2014
3,405
681
720
well, looks like i just bought a VR headset (oculus rift s. fuck those Index prices)

thanks a lot valve.
Index is expensive for a reason. Its has the best controllers for VR, the best roomscale system, and a damn good headset.

I have an Oculus Rift and a Vive as well. This is how they all grade out.

Headsets
Index>Vive>Rift

Controllers
Index>>>>>>>>Rift>>Vive

Room Scale (Setup, system, etc)
Index>Vive>>>>>>>Rift

Basically, the index is the best and the Vive and Rift are comparable (Rift has a better controller than Vive).
 
  • Like
Reactions: Blochu

blly155

Member
Aug 3, 2014
10,365
2,129
580
get space pirate trainer, it's absolute bliss
i'll look into it. i have some money sitting in my Steam wallet doing nothing so i'm gonna buy a few games.

Index is expensive for a reason. Its has the best controllers for VR, the best roomscale system, and a damn good headset.

I have an Oculus Rift and a Vive as well. This is how they all grade out.

Headsets
Index>Vive>Rift

Controllers
Index>>>>>>>>Rift>>Vive

Room Scale (Setup, system, etc)
Index>Vive>>>>>>>Rift

Basically, the index is the best and the Vive and Rift are comparable (Rift has a better controller than Vive).
fair enough but the Index is just TOO expensive. Rift S = £350. Index = £920. Vive....not really interested in that.

i just want a decent/reasonably priced headset. not the absolute best.
 
Last edited:

Al3x1s

Member
Nov 24, 2018
2,796
2,296
495
i'll look into it. i have some money sitting in my Steam wallet doing nothing so i'm gonna buy a few games.


fair enough but the Index is just TOO expensive. Rift S = £350. Index = £920. Vive....not really interested in that.

i just want a decent/reasonably priced headset. not the absolute best.
Stop by the PC VR thread if you want game suggestions.
 
  • Like
Reactions: blly155

Croatoan

Gold Member
Jun 24, 2014
3,405
681
720
i'll look into it. i have some money sitting in my Steam wallet doing nothing so i'm gonna buy a few games.


fair enough but the Index is just TOO expensive. Rift S = £350. Index = £920. Vive....not really interested in that.

i just want a decent/reasonably priced headset. not the absolute best.
I can understand that completely. The index is a premium second gen headset so the price is what it is for a reason.

That said, I am curious why you are not interested in the Vive?
 

Al3x1s

Member
Nov 24, 2018
2,796
2,296
495
I can understand that completely. The index is a premium second gen headset so the price is what it is for a reason.

That said, I am curious why you are not interested in the Vive?
Can't speak for him but I'll say Vive wands appear to be pretty meh as far as controllers go. Impeccably tracked in 3D space but not with great inputs leading to all kinds of weird toggle controls and unintuitive systems. I only recommend Vive if it's used as upgrade path to Index down the road.

Some of the reasons why in this oooold video by Boneworks dev. time stamped it:

Also it's still quite pricy for what it offers in parts of the world and now not even sold new officially outside leftover stock in various stores (like Rift CV1 with the trackers was abandoned when S came out but there's some stock in some places).

Oculus Touch controllers on the other hand appear to have been a "we got it right the first time" throw of the dice and most every controller after them follows very similar layout approaches (even Vive Cosmos), it's just the Index also threw in all the expensive finger/touch/force sensors on top.
 
Last edited:

blly155

Member
Aug 3, 2014
10,365
2,129
580
I can understand that completely. The index is a premium second gen headset so the price is what it is for a reason.

That said, I am curious why you are not interested in the Vive?
more expensive at £500-700. also read that it has issues with tracking.

honestly price is the ultimate factor for me. the pros/cons of each headset are important yes but for me are secondary. Rift S is cheapest out of the "big 3" (index/vive/rift) so that's what I bought.
 
Last edited:

Croatoan

Gold Member
Jun 24, 2014
3,405
681
720
more expensive at £500-700. also read that it has issues with tracking.

honestly price is the ultimate factor for me. the pros/cons of each headset are important yes but for me are secondary. Rift S is cheapest out of the "big 3" (index/vive/rift) so that's what I bought.
You will enjoy the rift. I am not knocking that one. I was just curious. RIght now I would recommend the Rift or the index. The Vive controllers are pants, though I haven't really heard of any tracking issues. I have more problems with Oculus tracking to be honest. I also hate that you need wires running everything for oculus roomscale.
 

Al3x1s

Member
Nov 24, 2018
2,796
2,296
495
He probably means Vive Cosmos for the tracking issues which is correct. Original Vive has impeccable tracking just like Index, same technology v1 on Vive vs v2 on Index, that's not its problem.
 
Last edited:

Croatoan

Gold Member
Jun 24, 2014
3,405
681
720
He probably means Vive Cosmos for the tracking issues which is correct. Original Vive has impeccable tracking just like Index, same technology v1 on Vive vs v2 on Index, that's not its problem.
I wound never recommend the cosmos :p. Im talking OG Vive here.
 
Last edited:

gifgaf

Gold Member
Jul 6, 2016
469
596
515
I can understand that completely. The index is a premium second gen headset so the price is what it is for a reason.

That said, I am curious why you are not interested in the Vive?
I have a Vive and I do not reccommend anyone to buy it. It is a first gen headset that is front heavy in comparison to newer ones, It always gave me VR face when I used it and could not spend more than an hour without having to take the headset off to rest my face.


The controllers are not great with no analogue controls just a disc touchpad that has a design fault and if you have a technical problem then you could be in trouble. I have heard nothing but horror stories from HTC support.

Vive was my first headset and I loved it but its time has passed. Theres much better and cheaper headsets on the market. Its just something I keep for nostalgia now.
 
Last edited:

rofif

Member
Sep 13, 2019
595
716
430
I have a Vive and I do not reccommend anyone to buy it. It is a first gen headset that is front heavy in comparison to newer ones, It always gave me VR face when I used it and could not spend more than an hour without having to take the headset off to rest my face.


The controllers are not great with no analogue controls just a disc touchpad that has a design fault and if you have a technical problem then you could be in trouble. I have heard nothing but horror stories from HTC support.

Vive was my first headset and I loved it but its time has passed. Theres much better and cheaper headsets on the market. Its just something I keep for nostalgia now.
Yeah I agree. Playing in vr is just uncomfortable. You will get hot, sweaty and ruin Your hair. And after a while, glare and pixelation will make You feel weird. And then there is ALWAYS searching for sweet spot. It always feels like if You could make it sit on Your head better. Glasses people have it ruined even more.
I've had all rift headsets and S had had the best everything but it's still a tiring experience
 

Al3x1s

Member
Nov 24, 2018
2,796
2,296
495
I mean, what you said is not what he said so you don't agree, you're just making a wholly different statement about VR in general when he was just talking about the original Vive.

No such issues (well, a bit messy hair isn't an issue to me) here with CV1, I only sweat in super intense games like Pistol Whip and Beat Saber where it's kinda half the point.

Playing even an active (climbing, gliding, flying, shooting, maneuvring, etc) yet otherwise "regular" FPS like Stormland in 3-hour sessions presents nothing of the sort.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: gifgaf

gifgaf

Gold Member
Jul 6, 2016
469
596
515
Playing in vr is just uncomfortable
I did not say that, do not put words in my mouth.

You will get hot, sweaty and ruin Your hair.
Only energetic games make you sweaty, most games are a sit down and chill affair and the hair thing is the most weak argument I have ever heard.

I've had all rift headsets and S had had the best everything but it's still a tiring experience
You know you can sit down and play games right? you do not need to play every game standing. VR can be chill and energetic, you can choose. I play most games sat down.

I only sweat in super intense games like Pistol Whip where it's kinda the point
This is perfect example, some games are energetic and fun because of that, it does not mean you have to play a physical game. Does no one here ever do anything except sit on thier ass?


[EDIT]
You are right Al3x1s Al3x1s changed my post to not be a dick. Sorry, I guess this shit is annoying me.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: rofif

Al3x1s

Member
Nov 24, 2018
2,796
2,296
495
Meh, getting nasty there, I'm far from fit and VR isn't just for fit people, playing VR games where it's not the point to have a work out while doing it like Beat Saber I don't have his problems even though even outside that I'm a person that does sweat super easily, so glad summer is over, lol.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: gifgaf

gatti-man

Member
Aug 30, 2010
8,134
220
795
40
Too true. I guess some of those people want to see AAA games, but honestly the actual game feel is just incomparable to non VR gaming.
I don't imagine every type of game will translate well to VR, but I can't see first person titles progressing any further without exploring VR. I'm looking forward to when engineers and devs finally achieve wireless and haptic solutions for future iterations of consumer VR.



Well I understand that there are people such as yourself that physically can't get into VR, even if you wanted to :messenger_grinning_sweat:

I was speaking more to those that express the sentiment that VR is a passing fad or trend.
I still can force myself to if the game is good enough
 

Romulus

Member
Mar 21, 2019
1,631
1,671
385
What's really interesting is how this game will affect other AAA game development.

Right now, it's a point where AAA developers are having to make a decision to go VR(at least a port). But the user base is "almost there" according to many. Not quite though.

This game is a massive leap in that direction. It's likely to double or triple the user base within a year, which still isn't superstar status, but it's enough to steer other developers on board with their games.

Either way, this is a huge solidifying move for VRs slow burn future imo. Probably one of the biggest things to ever happen for it
 

Romulus

Member
Mar 21, 2019
1,631
1,671
385
Yeah I agree. Playing in vr is just uncomfortable. You will get hot, sweaty and ruin Your hair. And after a while, glare and pixelation will make You feel weird. And then there is ALWAYS searching for sweet spot. It always feels like if You could make it sit on Your head better. Glasses people have it ruined even more.
I've had all rift headsets and S had had the best everything but it's still a tiring experience
Psvr is actually surprisingly the most comfortable one I've used. I could play skyrim for hours with none of those effects
 

Somnium

Member
Apr 1, 2016
2,105
1,670
570
art-of-vlad.com
What's really interesting is how this game will affect other AAA game development.

Right now, it's a point where AAA developers are having to make a decision to go VR(at least a port). But the user base is "almost there" according to many. Not quite though.

This game is a massive leap in that direction. It's likely to double or triple the user base within a year, which still isn't superstar status, but it's enough to steer other developers on board with their games.

Either way, this is a huge solidifying move for VRs slow burn future imo. Probably one of the biggest things to ever happen for it
Agreed. Rockstar is another that I can see making a full fledged AAA VR exclusive in the near future. That would certainly push more VR adoption.
 

fantomena

Member
Jun 1, 2013
15,031
505
680

Very interesting. I mean, how many of todays first person shooters on PC and console pushes the boundaries and evolves gaming in terms of gameplay? She says she has talked to Ken Levine (creator of Bioshock) who told her that BIoshock and most of todays FPS games are basically reskinned Half-Life in terms of following gameplay and game design.

Valve has so much money and Steam revenue allows Valve to push boundaries in terms of design and gameplay so they have no need to care about sales numbers for HLA. They have the luxury of making something they are very interested in and trying to push the boundaries of gaming without being scared of going bankrupt.

They don't even need to make HLA or any game, they get so much money from Steam. They make HLA because the company is very interested in doing it.
 
Last edited:

Romulus

Member
Mar 21, 2019
1,631
1,671
385
"Valve said they would not make another Half Life unless it would change the industry."

From the video above.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Blochu

UltimaKilo

Member
May 17, 2006
4,909
284
1,350
Florida
What does that have to do with his choice (as most VR games don't need much room, more like 2x1.5m is enough for the vast vast majority) to make more room to play around in? Inside out tracking or not, if you want a big room to play in, you make room somewhere, lol. Most current VR is inside out, Quest follows after it, yes. And Index isn't that intrusive either because the base stations only need a line of sight to each other and power, not to connect to a PC (like say, original Oculus Rift camera trackers), for the quality of tracking they offer it's a minor inconvenience (that you don't have to put up with if you go Oculus Rift S or WMR). And technically Index (and Vive) is inside out too, the HMD and the controllers track their position in space by tracking the synchronized infrared light beams the base stations flood the area with.
Because in my room, it makes some games a little constricted, if you’re like me, you also constantly take down the base stations (not a big deal on tripods).

I just played Vader Immortal in the park across from my apartment and it was great.

I understand some people are space restricted. Not sure why you are such a contrarian. At least I understand what their issue is.
 
Jan 9, 2018
1,047
1,631
415
Wish I could play it. One day, perhaps, but right now I can't justify building a pro VR entertainment room anytime in the coming years with all the family purchases and home upgrades on our list.
 

Scopa

The Tribe Has Spoken
Oct 27, 2017
6,351
10,012
850
your mind
Why does every newly announced game seem to have a New Zealand accented character now?

I’m constantly bemused how many gaming companies just follow the latest du jour trend like sheep.
 

Al3x1s

Member
Nov 24, 2018
2,796
2,296
495
Because in my room, it makes some games a little constricted, if you’re like me, you also constantly take down the base stations (not a big deal on tripods).

I just played Vader Immortal in the park across from my apartment and it was great.

I understand some people are space restricted. Not sure why you are such a contrarian. At least I understand what their issue is.
Again, this, and you, have nothing to do with anything he said there. He made room for room scale VR. He mentioned nothing about the base stations being in the way or even what VR set he has, it could well be an inside out tracked set for all we know based on the info in that post.
 
Last edited:

Croatoan

Gold Member
Jun 24, 2014
3,405
681
720
What's really interesting is how this game will affect other AAA game development.

Right now, it's a point where AAA developers are having to make a decision to go VR(at least a port). But the user base is "almost there" according to many. Not quite though.

This game is a massive leap in that direction. It's likely to double or triple the user base within a year, which still isn't superstar status, but it's enough to steer other developers on board with their games.

Either way, this is a huge solidifying move for VRs slow burn future imo. Probably one of the biggest things to ever happen for it
The next elderscrolls and possibly star field will no doubt have VR "Ports" and that will be big too. That medal of honor game looks good as well and is AAA.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Romulus

teacupcopter

Member
Sep 1, 2005
1,341
50
1,320
I really want VR to be good but I just feel like it’s going to be a generational thing where many of the older people will not want to touch it as it’s too kiddy. I have a kid now I really don’t feel like spending a thousand bucks minimum to put a mask on my face and wave wands around.

I do think the trailer looks nice but the hand interactions just look like next gen wii mini Games. Show me some actual lengthy gameplay (like how do you walk around etc) and then we can talk.
 

Al3x1s

Member
Nov 24, 2018
2,796
2,296
495
I really want VR to be good but I just feel like it’s going to be a generational thing where many of the older people will not want to touch it as it’s too kiddy. I have a kid now I really don’t feel like spending a thousand bucks minimum to put a mask on my face and wave wands around.

I do think the trailer looks nice but the hand interactions just look like next gen wii mini Games. Show me some actual lengthy gameplay (like how do you walk around etc) and then we can talk.
You walk around with an analog stick (or choose to use teleportation or dash locomotion), it would not be very interesting to have them zoom in on a guy's thumb in a video to show this.

How is handling a gun or grabbing objects with your hands almost as in real life with a little extra abstraction or simplification for the sake of fun and ease of use (vs pressing E to have them float in mid air or drag crosshair/camera with a mouse) a Wii mini game?

Here are a couple videos that show people playing various FPS games in VR, it's got nothing to do with Wii mini games (or Wii great games). The 2nd is the one with the most not-just-gun-shooting interactions displayed. But none of it is AAA production value stuff like Alyx.

Also when you watch footage they sadly seem to most often choose the left eye view from the stereoscopic 3D VR as the 2D view so you don't see how they may be properly lining up the rifle sights and scopes to their right eye and such but that's what they do (when not spraying and praying).
 
Last edited:
  • Fire
Reactions: hariseldon

GlassAwful

Member
Dec 4, 2016
448
271
330
You walk around with an analog stick (or choose to use teleportation or dash locomotion), it would not be very interesting to have them zoom in on a guy's thumb in a video to show this.

How is handling a gun or grabbing objects with your hands almost as in real life with a little extra abstraction or simplification for the sake of fun and ease of use (vs pressing E to have them float in mid air or drag crosshair/camera with a mouse) a Wii mini game?

Here are a couple videos that show people playing various FPS games in VR, it's got nothing to do with Wii mini games (or Wii great games). The 2nd is the one with the most not-just-gun-shooting interactions displayed. But none of it is AAA production value stuff like Alyx.

Also when you watch footage they sadly seem to most often choose the left eye view from the stereoscopic 3D VR as the 2D view so you don't see how they may be properly lining up the rifle sights and scopes to their right eye and such but that's what they do (when not spraying and praying).
I have to admit after watching those videos fully I didn't know there were already fps with seemingly normal traversal systems in VR. I'm curious how they keep from getting sick while standing in place.
 

Romulus

Member
Mar 21, 2019
1,631
1,671
385
I have to admit after watching those videos fully I didn't know there were already fps with seemingly normal traversal systems in VR. I'm curious how they keep from getting sick while standing in place.
Tbh, most people don't know this, but it's been a thing.

Demoing VR to lots of folks, it's rare that someone gets sick all in my experience.
 
  • Like
Reactions: gifgaf

magnumpy

Member
Sep 8, 2014
1,469
231
455
Texas
might, well certainly is a bit premature, but I can't help but think about a next-gen (PS5 gen) port of half-life: alyx. ok I'm just dreaming I know! let me dream :messenger_neutral:
 

Al3x1s

Member
Nov 24, 2018
2,796
2,296
495
Pretty interesting information here:



Playing with VR controllers other than the Index will not get the full experience, as expected.
I mean, it's pretty insignificant things you can't do with the other controllers and they say it's not important to the game, the only specific thing mentioned as an example is being able to crush a non descript can with the force sensors in the Index controllers.

Technically they could have done it on Oculus as the grip trigger on it is analog. Or on any controller with pushing a button while holding the can. They didn't bother because it's not necessary to the gameplay,

It's fine and hardly missing "the full experience" even if that's technically correct. If we're gonna care about such insignificant things then we already knew, not just expect that it's not gonna be "the full experience" because you can't intuitively give NPCs the finger with other kits, lol.

Otherwise they just pimp their Index is more comfortable and they found they play longer or whatever, personally I've never stopped playing because it got uncomfortable or tiring, most of the controllers are held in a similar way to a normal gamepad and we all have played on those for hours.
 
Last edited:

GlassAwful

Member
Dec 4, 2016
448
271
330
Pretty interesting information here:



Playing with VR controllers other than the Index will not get the full experience, as expected.
This basically said that smooth movement is a late addition and not fully functional yet. The game and encounters were designed around a teleporting player which would explain why most of the trailer was a stationary character in confined environments.

Oh well.
 

Romulus

Member
Mar 21, 2019
1,631
1,671
385
This basically said that smooth movement is a late addition and not fully functional yet. The game and encounters were designed around a teleporting player which would explain why most of the trailer was a stationary character in confined environments.

Oh well.


I have faith. Even indie devs with a few programmers pull off smooth movement these days quite well. Back in 2016, not so much.
 
Last edited: