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[subversus]

I guess it was posted in the post-mortem thread but I think it needs more public attention because FUCK FOCUS TESTING

Spoiler

my purely emotional assessment

Franchise creative director Josh Holmes told GDC audiences that "when we started out, I was really pushing the team to go in a very sci-fi direction. I wanted to embrace the sci-fi nature of the enemies and explore concepts that were outside the box for Halo, things that you'd never seen before in the Halo sandbox."


Unfortunately, the more sci-fi concepts didn't resonate with players. "What we found as we were testing these weapons with players, the really deep sci-fi approach wasn't relatable. As a result, they weren't really gravitating to these weapons."

"It really sucks when you're making new weapons and no one wants to use them," Holmes added.

Eventually, 343 Industries had to make sure that all the weapons in the game could be understood by players immediately. For example, the scattershot is "at it's core, a shotgun," even if it does disintegrate enemies. The other weapons that made Halo 4's final roster all have immediately understandable real-world counterparts, like a sniper rifle or an assault rifle.

"One of the barriers to entry with Halo is that it is sci-fi," Holmes pointed out. "It's had a very steep learning curve that's turned off a lot of players."

edit:

the video of the weapon in question:

I don't think it's been mentioned - that stasis gun is still hidden in the game's code.

It looks unbelievably annoying to deal with in multiplayer when your mobility is the one defense you have in open areas.

(of course, if the reason for cutting it was that it was annoying to deal with, then by that same token the Boltshot, Binary Rifle, and Incineration Cannon shouldn't have made it into the game either)

 

[FunkyMunkey]

(The scattershot, at it's core, is a useless shotgun)

And steep learning curve... right. *rolls eyes* Better add more abilities and random weapon drops to Halo 5 to flatten that "curve" even further.

The testers were most likely not relating to the weapons because they were bad(unbalanced?), not because they were a "deep sci-fi approach", but that's just my guess.

 

[gazele]

Damn, that sounds interesting, and pretty much sums up my feelings on halo 4, that it felt very safe

 

[Guerrillas in the Mist]

Fuck COD.

Spoiler

OK, It's probably not necessarily COD's fault.

 

[Keslord]

"One of the barriers to entry with Halo is that it is sci-fi," Holmes pointed out. "It's had a very steep learning curve that's turned off a lot of players."

Since when does Halo have a steep learning curve

It's the easiest to pick up and play shooter other than Call of Duty

 

[SneakyStephan]

Remember when videogame makers designed stuff they thought was cool?

 

[exmachina64]

Players find exotic weapons to be too sci-fi in a game about ancient interstellar wars and dyson spheres.

 

[kittens]

Serious question: who do they recruit for their focus tests? Random people off the street? Microsoft employees?

 

[PAULINK]

Halo 4 had a very steep learning curve? Really? I don't think I've ever heard that sentiment by anyone.

 

[lybertyboy]

It was unbelievably frustrating to deal with a team coordinating with that weapon. Believe me, it was cut for good reasons that had nothing to do with "focus testing."

 

[Spotless Mind]

Serious question: who do they recruit for their focus tests? Random people off the street? Microsoft employees?

COD players? Gotta appeal to that crowd!

 

[Ahasverus]

It's a videogame.
With guns.
Aircrafts.
And Aliens.
In the space.

You don't want it to be sci-fi.


WHAT THE FUCK

 

[subversus]

Serious question: who do they recruit for their focus tests? Random people off the street? Microsoft employees?

morons

 

[Surface of Me]

Fuck this earth.

 

[glaurung]

This is what happens when you use nutless retard ass monkeys in your focus groups.

Edit: beaten.

I wonder what this means for Destiny. Will they remove all higher quality scifi from that too since stupid fatface americans cannot comprehend it?

 

[JHall]

Can't wait to see what this thread turns into.

 

[subversus]

It was unbelievably frustrating to deal with a team coordinating with that weapon. Believe me, it was cut for good reasons that had nothing to do with "focus testing."

can you elaborate?

 

[SpartanN92]

*Sigh*

Damn. Please bring it with Halo 5.

 

[Sojgat]

Anybody got that "context is key" slide he used, with the Needler and an AK-47 on it?

Halo is dead.

RIP in peaceful pieces, or something.

 

[Seance]

Not sure who I detest more, Sage Merril or Josh Holmes......

Spoiler

Holmes

 

[PFD]

Gotta keep the dudebro audience happy

 

[SpartanN92]

It was unbelievably frustrating to deal with a team coordinating with that weapon. Believe me, it was cut for good reasons that had nothing to do with "focus testing."

Maybe not every weapon in single player needs a multiplayer compliment?

I think that by utilizing the current design philosophy that a LOT of design opportunities were missed. For example: We could have had the weapons that the forerunner prometheans used in Halo Legends: Origins, but multiplayer ruins that idea.

 

[SJRB]

Can you imagine someone walking into the manager's office, saying "focus group results are in: our science-fiction game is too science-fiction".


Must've been priceless.

 

[OdysseusVA]

can you elaborate?

"Lower the skill gap"

"Help new players find success"

 

[Pudge]

I don't think any news out of Microsoft has sounded good in at least a year at this point for me, but this just takes the cake. I knew Halo wasn't going to hit any more highs after Bungie moved on, but I didn't expect a Sonic 06 level drop off with their first full release. I hope that everyone at 343 goes on to somewhat creative products at some point in their lives or burns in the corporate sponsored hell that they have designed for themselves.

 

[SpartanN92]

Not sure who I detest more, Sage Merril or Josh Holmes......

Spoiler

Holmes

That's not cool. I've met Holmes. Very nice guy. Both Merril and Holmes had the best of intentions.

I'll take H4 over Reach any day.

 

[subversus]

"Lower the skill gap"

"Help new players find success"

he was in focus testing, I think the weapon was just unbalanced but instead of improving it they decided to cut it.

 

[Anticitizen One]

Tis focus testing/corporate risk aversion bullshit is ruining the game industry just like it ruined the film industry. I hope people start protesting fiercely before it gets out of control. Tomb raider and halo 4 have already become victims among many others

 

[Kuroyume]

Stasis gun sounds like an infuriating weapon for a Halo game.

 

[Dion Blaster]

That was just really depressing to read. At least he gave us an honest look behind the scenes.

 

[i-Lo]

The guy just outlined why I so passionately despised Promethean weapons. Even covenant weapons were better than their reskinned human weapons.

Fuck relatability of a small play test group. This way the developers themselves perpetuate stagnation to play it safe.

 

[Anticitizen One]

"Every game needs to be like call of duty or I won't understand it" - no one ever

 

[SenjutsuSage]

I don't like how safe he seems to be playing things. I thought Halo 4 was an incredible, incredible campaign experience, but, my goodness, who are the idiots they have play testing this thing?

Too sci-fi? If the developers feel the gun is a good addition, then they should put it in regardless of what some playtesters think. I understand that developers themselves also playtest, so I don't exactly want to insult the devs, but it sounds like maybe they took way too much input from certain gamers that have no idea what they are talking about? But what I find even more worrying is that they somehow see Halo's sci-fi nature as somehow some type of obstacle? That's Halo's advantage over just about every other shooter out there. It also helps that people give a damn about the story, characters and the larger universe.

 

[Aaron]

Halo 4 is such a pretty mess of a game. Why would you make an alien shotgun in a game that already has a shotgun? Why would you hide major plot points in optional terminals? Why would you make a core element of your multiplayer giving the players random prizes? Reach was no prize pig, but it didn't have so many core elements that were poorly thought out.

 

[Elixist]

it was all downhill after they got rid of dual wielding and bruteshot. my smg plasma rifle wield was beast yo.

 

[Seance]

That's not cool. I've met Holmes. Very nice guy. Both Merril and Holmes had the best of intentions.

I'll take H4 over Reach any day.

The path to hell is paved with good intentions ... or something.

 

[lingiii]

he was in focus testing, I think the weapon was just unbalanced but instead of improving it they decided to cut it.

(The scattershot, at it's core, is a useless shotgun)

And steep learning curve... right. *rolls eyes* Better add more abilities and random weapon drops to Halo 5 to flatten that "curve" even further.

The testers were most likely not relating to the weapons because they were bad(unbalanced?), not because they were a "deep sci-fi approach", but that's just my guess.

its cool you were both there so know how the made the decision. such great insight A+ you should make the next one you're smarter than this guy.

 

[snoopeasystreet]

You'd think that game developers would find a science fiction based game liberating because they think up all sorts of new and interesting mechanics and then easily rationalize them in the world but apparently it means you should just make certain ballistics glow orange.

 

[ChaosXVI]

This makes no sense...the game takes place in the future...in space...with aliens...and your goal is to get rid of the sci-fi?! That'd be like going to CoD and going "OK...the focus groups aren't really digging this whole military thing, best tone that down..."

This literally makes no sense.

 

[TheOddOne]

It was unbelievably frustrating to deal with a team coordinating with that weapon. Believe me, it was cut for good reasons that had nothing to do with "focus testing."

Nobody will read your post. Rage is the only fuel

 

[Ryaaan14]

It was unbelievably frustrating to deal with a team coordinating with that weapon. Believe me, it was cut for good reasons that had nothing to do with "focus testing."

Well this is intriguing. Why not just spill? :_P

 

[DR2K]

Why does no one copy the 60fps from cod?

 

[subversus]

its cool you were both there so know how the made the decision. such great insight A+ you should make the next one you're smarter than this guy.

well, you could explain why they made the decision as I asked you or you could at least say that you signed NDA instead of acting defensive.

 

[bishoptl]

Not sure who I detest more, Sage Merril or Josh Holmes......

Spoiler

Holmes

oh yeah

 

[snoopeasystreet]

Halo 4 is such a pretty mess of a game. Why would you make an alien shotgun in a game that already has a shotgun? Why would you hide major plot points in optional terminals? Why would you make a core element of your multiplayer giving the players random prizes? Reach was no prize pig, but it didn't have so many core elements that were poorly thought out.

I think Halo 4 is a pretty good example off how to poorly transition a franchise between developers, the was what seemed to be a tonne of passion behind it but it feels like they didn't know if they wanted to stay true to what Bungie made or create their own unique thing and they probably failed on both fronts. I wonder if we'll ever find out what Ryan Payton's original vision for 4 was.

 

[subversus]

Nobody will read your post. Rage is the only fuel

I'll include it in OP if he spills the beans.

 

[Krilekk]

This explains why I hated all those Promethean weapons, there was nothing unique about them other than the look.

 

[FunkyMunkey]

its cool you were both there so know how the made the decision. such great insight A+ you should make the next one you're smarter than this guy.

To be fair, I said "probably" and "that's just my guess".

He states that one of the barriers to Halo is that it's too sci-fi, which is ridiculous. There's really no more to that sentence other than that, and Halo 4 is evidence of that belief.

Assuming play testers didn't like some weapons because they were "too sci-fi", while playing a heavy sci-fi game, is also strange. I'd wager that people who enjoy Halo games would probably not have liked the weapons simply because they were unbalanced or boring. But it's as if they hired a group of people to test Halo 4 who've never played any Halo games, and then took their opinions as the ultimate deciding factor, which would explain what he says.

This makes no sense...the game takes place in the future...in space...with aliens...and your goal is to get rid of the sci-fi?! That'd be like going to CoD and going "OK...the focus groups aren't really digging this whole military thing, best tone that down..."

This literally makes no sense.

.

 

[SpartanN92]

The path to hell is paved with good intentions ... or something.

True.

I look at Halo 4 like this: IMO not the worst Halo game. It had it's weaknesses for sure. But it also had its strengths. It was the most emotional of any of the Halo games. 10 years from now when we are playing Halo 8 will I think back and say "Man Halo 4 had some odd gameplay mechanics."? Nope. I will remember the emotional impact of the ending. That is what is truly important to me.

343 was given a stacked deck. They went from 0 employees to 340 during the development of Halo 4. They had changes in creative directors. They were taking the mantle of one of the most beloved game series from one of the best developers. Of course H4 was gonna be a bumpy experiment.

We can hopefully look forward to the future. I am certain that 343 is learning from their mistakes and Bungie's for that matter (Reach wasn't well received by consumers either.)

Given chances for the team to reflect on what they accomplished and didn't accomplish and new increases in power from the new console generation, I have high hopes that Halo 5 and 6 will reach the potential we all know that the series is capable of.

 

[nhlducks35]

Not sure who I detest more, Sage Merril or Josh Holmes......

Spoiler

Holmes

Damn what happened to Seance?

Seance
Banned
(Today, 11:24 PM)