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Halo 5 beta clips leak (sprint, ADS is *not* COD-style) (more clips and info added)

FunkyLounge

Member
Jun 23, 2013
1,176
0
0
A GUIDE TO WHY PEOPLE ARE ANNOYED FOR THE UNINITIATED

The year is 2014. The multiplayer FPS genre has been dominated by a very specific brand of aim down sights/sprint based shooters, which started really exploding with the popularity of Call of Duty. Since then, for the majority of shooters... if you want to play them, you have to deal with that type of combat and gameplay.

But there existed a time before Call of Duty. A time when Unreal Tournament and Quake existed, which were some of the most finely tuned and blazingly fast FPS multiplayer experiences ever made to this day. A time when Return to Castle Wolfenstein multiplayer was so sweetly balanced that it didn't need to hold your hand so you could hit something. The gameplay itself was so engaging and so competitive that you felt compelled to get better, and didn't need a constant feed of positive reinforcement to do so. You didn't need level ups and fuckin' attachments and stat differentials; it wasn't how much you grinded that mattered, but how much of the accumulated skill sets you internalized.

Halo existed in the between time, right when consoles were starting to be really feasible for competitive FPS titles. And it added some new things, yes, but it was still very much rooted in an older tradition, one where again it was simply skill vs. skill and the pace was entirely governed by the rules it played by which remained a staple.

Consider where we are today. One of the reasons people were so furious about Tomb Raider 2013 is that it destroyed entirely a gametype that literally no longer exists in the industry, replacing it with something we see every other goddamn day. It may have been acceptable in some remote way if we had a world where the older genre was thriving, but we don't. And it's not like the older genre was bad (quite the contrary, it remains amongst the best ideas ever had in gaming) - it's just newer gamers were conditioned to have their hands held to such an extreme that they no longer could adjust to those old gameplay ideals.

The same is true of Halo. Because there are extremely few games anymore in the old tradition. Almost no games in the old Halo tradition. They simply don't exist, squeezed out of existence by whining new fans who couldn't adjust, couldn't acquire the skill sets, and therefore demanded the few remaining vestiges of this amazing older style to be expunged. So now Halo too is becoming like all those other "me-too" shooters, and where does that leave those who actually liked that older tradition? With few if any options left.

And that's just part of the issue.

Because maybe if there was some way to do ADS/Sprint and still make it feel like Halo, people would accept it. But as demonstrated with Halo 4, there isn't. It destroyed the heart and soul of the multiplayer and the community simply abandoned it, full stop. They catered to people who did not fucking care and the result is the series cratered.

When you have ADS/Sprint, it changes the entire ebb and flow of the combat. Where before you had "Run and Gun" characteristics, now you have "Run or Gun" flow, where people are either slowing/stopping to shoot through iron sights or then engaging sprint to get out of dodge. This literally transforms the way a traditional Halo match used to go. And it doesn't transform it into something better, but something vastly different, with lower skill requirements and that feels like a billion other shooters on the market.


You don't have to be a fan of Halo to understand why this is so problematic to so many.

Include in OP
 

Great-God

Banned
Oct 6, 2014
199
0
0
Quote me, judging by the reticule (It's small, and the player fires without ADS hitting the target before using the sight) you'll be able to aim like in previous games, and that map looks great.
Also, it's a six second long off screen pixelated as fuck video. Dat forum hivemind.
 

abadguy

Banned
Jun 14, 2012
5,622
0
0
Fucking ADS in Halo? Really? Why would a Spartan even fucking need to aim down sights? The fucking hell?!
 
Oct 15, 2014
196
0
260
A GUIDE TO WHY PEOPLE ARE ANNOYED FOR THE UNINITIATED

The year is 2014. The multiplayer FPS genre has been dominated by a very specific brand of aim down sights/sprint based shooters, which started really exploding with the popularity of Call of Duty. Since then, for the majority of shooters... if you want to play them, you have to deal with that type of combat and gameplay.

But there existed a time before Call of Duty. A time when Unreal Tournament and Quake existed, which were some of the most finely tuned and blazingly fast FPS multiplayer experiences ever made to this day. A time when Return to Castle Wolfenstein multiplayer was so sweetly balanced that it didn't need to hold your hand so you could hit something. The gameplay itself was so engaging and so competitive that you felt compelled to get better, and didn't need a constant feed of positive reinforcement to do. You didn't need level ups and fuckin' attachments and stat differentials; it wasn't how much you grinded that mattered, but how much of the accumulated skill sets you internalized.

Halo existed in the between time, right when consoles were starting to be really feasible for competitive FPS titles. And it added some new things, yes, but it was still very much rooted in an older tradition, one where again it was simply skill vs. skill and the pace was entirely governed by the rules it played by which remained a staple.

Consider where we are today. One of the reasons people were so furious about Tomb Raider 2013 is that it destroyed entirely a gametype that literally no longer exists in the industry, replacing it with something we see every other goddamn day. It may have been acceptable in some remote way if we had a world where the older genre was thriving, but we don't. And it's not like the older genre was bad (quite the contrary, it remains amongst the best ideas ever had in gaming) - it's just newer gamers were conditioned to have their hands held to such an extreme that they no longer could adjust to those old gameplay ideals.

The same is true of Halo. Because there are extremely few games anymore in the old tradition. Almost no games in the old Halo tradition. They simply don't exist, squeezed out of existence by whining new fans who couldn't adjust, couldn't acquire the skill sets, and therefore demanded the few remaining vestiges of this amazing older style to be expunged. So now Halo too is becoming like all those other "me-too" shooters, and where does that leave those who actually liked that older tradition? With few if any options left.

And that's just part of the issue.

Because maybe if there was some way to do ADS/Sprint and still make it feel like Halo, people would accept it. But as demonstrated with Halo 4, there isn't. It destroyed the heart and soul of the multiplayer and the community simply abandoned it, full stop. They catered to people who did not fucking care and the result is the series cratered.

When you have ADS/Sprint, it changes the entire ebb and flow of the combat. Where before you had "Run and Gun" characteristics, now you have "Run or Gun" flow, where people are either slowing/stopping to shoot through iron sights or then engaging sprint to get out of dodge. This literally transforms the way a traditional Halo match used to go. And it doesn't transform it into something better, but something vastly different, which lower skill requirements, and that feels like a billion other shooters on the market.


You don't have to be a fan of Halo to understand why this is so problematic to so many.

Wait. So its OK to be upset about a blurry, 2 Second leaked Video from a game that comes out in 13 months with an actual beta next month?

I am not upset. I will just wait until next month and Play it by myself.

I dont trust RUMORS. Remember that "XBOX Live bouncing issues before xhox one Launch"-rumor? Lol
 
Jun 5, 2013
3,110
0
0
Texas
I've been saying I had zero faith in 343. I knew they'd mess it up. At least we got MCC this year instead of Halo 5. I probably wouldn't have an xbox right now if that was the case.
 

timlot

Banned
Dec 1, 2004
1,551
0
1,375
Little clip looks fine too me. Guess there has been too much positive XB1 news lately. TuesdY should be fun.
 

LiteBulb_

Neo Member
Apr 5, 2014
31
0
0
For the people who don't understand why this is a problem:

Ironsights/ADS typically increase accuracy at the expense of movement speed.

Sprint lets you move at full speed but you cannot fire while you do that.


Unless they're completely superfluous mechanics where the sights don't increase accuracy at all, this system usually makes firing from the hip significantly less viable and discourages trying to move and shoot at the same time. People get to a point where they're either just sprinting or staying in one spot and shooting. There are a lot of people who do not want that from this series, because they find that less exciting and challenging.

Thank you for the informative explanation. This should be the OP.
 

Raide

Member
Oct 29, 2007
24,342
1
0
Oh my god they are Call of Dutying the game again.

At least the good Halo is coming out in a couple days. We can forget Halo 5 multi exists.

CoD is Titanfalling, so really its Halofall: TitanCoDs.
 

Exploratory

Banned
Jan 9, 2014
7,453
0
0
New York
A GUIDE TO WHY PEOPLE ARE ANNOYED FOR THE UNINITIATED

The year is 2014. The multiplayer FPS genre has been dominated by a very specific brand of aim down sights/sprint based shooters, which started really exploding with the popularity of Call of Duty. Since then, for the majority of shooters... if you want to play them, you have to deal with that type of combat and gameplay.

But there existed a time before Call of Duty. A time when Unreal Tournament and Quake existed, which were some of the most finely tuned and blazingly fast FPS multiplayer experiences ever made to this day. A time when Return to Castle Wolfenstein multiplayer was so sweetly balanced that it didn't need to hold your hand so you could hit something. The gameplay itself was so engaging and so competitive that you felt compelled to get better, and didn't need a constant feed of positive reinforcement to do so. You didn't need level ups and fuckin' attachments and stat differentials; it wasn't how much you grinded that mattered, but how much of the accumulated skill sets you internalized.

Halo existed in the between time, right when consoles were starting to be really feasible for competitive FPS titles. And it added some new things, yes, but it was still very much rooted in an older tradition, one where again it was simply skill vs. skill and the pace was entirely governed by the rules it played by which remained a staple.

Consider where we are today. One of the reasons people were so furious about Tomb Raider 2013 is that it destroyed entirely a gametype that literally no longer exists in the industry, replacing it with something we see every other goddamn day. It may have been acceptable in some remote way if we had a world where the older genre was thriving, but we don't. And it's not like the older genre was bad (quite the contrary, it remains amongst the best ideas ever had in gaming) - it's just newer gamers were conditioned to have their hands held to such an extreme that they no longer could adjust to those old gameplay ideals.

The same is true of Halo. Because there are extremely few games anymore in the old tradition. Almost no games in the old Halo tradition. They simply don't exist, squeezed out of existence by whining new fans who couldn't adjust, couldn't acquire the skill sets, and therefore demanded the few remaining vestiges of this amazing older style to be expunged. So now Halo too is becoming like all those other "me-too" shooters, and where does that leave those who actually liked that older tradition? With few if any options left.

And that's just part of the issue.

Because maybe if there was some way to do ADS/Sprint and still make it feel like Halo, people would accept it. But as demonstrated with Halo 4, there isn't. It destroyed the heart and soul of the multiplayer and the community simply abandoned it, full stop. They catered to people who did not fucking care and the result is the series cratered.

When you have ADS/Sprint, it changes the entire ebb and flow of the combat. Where before you had "Run and Gun" characteristics, now you have "Run or Gun" flow, where people are either slowing/stopping to shoot through iron sights or then engaging sprint to get out of dodge. This literally transforms the way a traditional Halo match used to go. And it doesn't transform it into something better, but something vastly different, which lower skill requirements, and that feels like a billion other shooters on the market.


You don't have to be a fan of Halo to understand why this is so problematic to so many.

Sprint fucks Halo up pretty badly but to be honest if the maps are designed around it its okay. Its not completely game breaking like jet packs which basically take the formula out back and put two into the back of its skull.

On the other hand ADS is just absolutely terrible.

Now of course it could be and I'm desperately hoping its true...but it could be that they just replaced the zoom function with ADS and you don't lose any sort of movement at all. That would actually be an improvement. But if its ADS...real ADS...true ADS...Halo is dead.
 

stay gold

Member
Sep 9, 2007
2,563
0
750
Bungie: "it's like watching your son do porn"

Bungie started this shit.

God I hope this turns out to be a clip from 343s 'terrible ideas we've since gotten rid of' pile, although that is a mighty stretch I know. Do not want ADS in Halo ffs.
 

Uzny

Member
Jul 6, 2007
205
3
0
Kjecz
I think it's just a different approach to zoom. Fine by me. Sprint doesn't bother me that much. I'll just wait and see how the beta plays.
 

xxjuicesxx

Member
Jan 20, 2008
12,261
2
0
Buffalo NY
Alright I am upset at that image. The the obvious reasons why:

1. ADS
2. Sprint

Halo for me has always and will always be about fast paced 4v4 combat in small maps. Midship FFA Midship 4v4 KOTH, Ball, Bomb, Lockout 1v1's Lockout FFAs Lockout 4v4 Oddball and KOTH. Et cetera. Watching MLG streams of competitive pros playing on weekends. Getting on and trying to rank up as high as I can go the rest of the week. The best part of Halo was there was always that distinct jump where you could go over to the BTB playlist and play 8v8 on huge maps with crazy unbalanced vehicles and social game and play with the dirty plebian uncleansed social zombie kids, if you maybe weren't playing that well or feeling competitive that day. I think during the split of Halo 2 and more perfectized Halo 3 split of Rank/Social they began to see maybe people weren't playing ranked as much. Of course with a ranking system that is going to happen you get your number high, you don't want to go into the next match until you've got your 3 other teammates ready to go and warmed up. This leads to a lot of social play. I think they saw this and even further bastardized the system in Halo Reach. Adding just one Arena playlist and having everything else social playlists. Of course the playlist management was atrocious for Arena and did not give the competitive players what they wanted for months and months only to be partially fixed later on. This led to a quick death of the Arena. So in Halo 4 guess what, game didnt even have a ranking system. Everything was social, the game copied so much from Call of Duty it basically was CoD in space. Well we all know what happened to the population charts in Halo 4. Dead game is dead.

When you add Sprint and more movement options available the maps have to start to accommodate that movement type. It leads to larger maps and longer corridors larger rooms and larger gaps between cover. This means if you ever are to take the Sprint out the maps no longer really "work" with the traditional movement. The addition of Sprint also sometimes means a hit to the default movement speed as well which means a slower game and Sprint usually kills strafing an ability that some of the best pros worked to really master a way to move out of shots ways while still understanding how to remain on the enemy player in terms of shots. This casualizes the game. It also makes it closer to CoD or other games that are already doing their type of FPS incredibly well. So its no surprise when games like Reach and Halo 4 statistically don't do so well when they try and be the new CoD.

Halo fans have and will always know what they want and that is Halo, They want their gun to be up and ready the entire game ready to enjoy their next 10 second loop of gun battle they want that precise moment when they know the player that showed up on their screen had the same weapon the same armor the same abilities and the thing that stood between his life and his death was how well THEY handled their controller. Their thoughts and their skill alone created victory and the rush of endorphins hits the brain and all is well. That is the moment a Halo player fiends for, craves. This is why MCC is such a wet dream to the Halo player, were going to be once again playing these games from the past that hit the formula just right or close enough that their games flaws can be overlooked. Surely you can point to a 101 errors, glitches, bugs in any Halo. However the fans loved the rush, the arena combat, saying I AM BETTER THAN YOU only by action, well sometimes with words, and so they overlooked these blemishes to the point Halo is a perfect game for some of these players.

We don't want AIM DOWN SCOPE, WE DONT WANT SPRINT, We do want social playlists but we dont want it at the cost of our ranking system! LET THEM KNOW!

Give us our Halo back akin to CE, 2, and 3. We do not want what you are feeding us lately. I urge all of you to play MCC, and if Halo 5 does add all this garbage please go back to MCC do not even touch 5 at all. Sell it back to the game store, mail it back to 343i with a No thanks letter attached, speak with actions, do not give in to an industry giant and the movement of which its going.

Anyways, I guess I got carried away. I feel strongly for these games. If anyone read that thanks!

Hire Juices
 

Zabuza

Banned
Jul 25, 2011
4,505
1
0
Iselia
Quote me, judging by the reticule (It's small, and the player fires without ADS hitting the target before using the sight) you'll be able to aim like in previous games, and that map looks great.
Also, it's a six second long off screen pixelated as fuck video. Dat forum hivemind.
Hahaha forum hivemind. You really don't get this do you?
 
Jun 10, 2014
17,188
3
0
 

Neuromancer

Member
Jan 13, 2009
61,813
4
1,130
Baltimore, MD
twitter.com
It was time for a change, not being able to aim down the sights of your weapon like soldiers have been doing since at least the first Korean War is just not realistic in any video game capacity. I'm glad 343 is finally bringing Halo into the 20th century, Bungie never would have never been brave enough to do it.
 

AuthenticM

Member
Mar 2, 2010
22,588
30
0
For the people who don't understand why this is a problem:

Ironsights/ADS typically increase accuracy at the expense of movement speed.

Sprint lets you move at full speed but you cannot fire while you do that.


Unless they're completely superfluous mechanics where the sights don't increase accuracy at all, this system usually makes firing from the hip significantly less viable and discourages trying to move and shoot at the same time. People get to a point where they're either just sprinting or staying in one spot and shooting. There are a lot of people who do not want that from this series, because they find that less exciting and challenging.

Yeah, I can see that. ADS seems to be more of an issue that sprinting though. I don't mind being able to move faster by losing my ability to shoot. There should be a stamina meter though; that would make a good compromise between classic halo formula and modern sensibilities.
 

Syntsui

Member
Nov 14, 2011
12,145
0
445
It's typically associated with 1. Dramatically decreased movement speed while using ADS 2. Shitty accuracy while not using ADS.

Makes it into a completely different (and worse) type of game.
If the bolded doesn't prove right will people calm the fuck down? Geez..
 

Markitron

Is currently staging a hunger strike outside Gearbox HQ while trying to hate them to death
Aug 24, 2010
12,116
5
810
Resistance: Fall of Man had ADS. The second game is when things went south.

And the third game is where things went really far north again. Seriously though, R1 had ADS but it was default mapped to the right stick and was barely used. R2 mapped it to L1 and went full CoD. Didn't bother me though, worked great in the 3rd game.
 

Boke1879

Member
Apr 25, 2013
22,005
0
0
Illinois
Wait. So its OK to be upset about a blurry, 2 Second leaked Video from a game that comes out in 13 months with an actual beta next month?

I am not upset. I will just wait until next month and Play it by myself.

I dont trust RUMORS. Remember that "XBOX Live bouncing issues before xhox one Launch"-rumor? Lol

It's pretty clear the game has ADS and Sprinting.

That's why people are upset and rightfully so.
 

Nyoro SF

Member
Jul 5, 2011
11,408
0
585
I have not played a Halo game in ages, but games that constantly try to follow and imitate Call of Duty has been poison this generation. I can understand the anger.
 

Dictator93

Member
Jun 29, 2011
23,812
4
660
Halo has no need for ADS, and it really does not "need" sprint. Why "modernize" this game? Can't it be unique among its console peers for its mechanics?
 

EvB

Member
Jan 20, 2012
9,859
5
635
United Kingdom
Quote me, judging by the reticule (It's small, and the player fires without ADS hitting the target before using the sight) you'll be able to aim like in previous games, and that map looks great.
Also, it's a six second long off screen pixelated as fuck video. Dat forum hivemind.

I think it's most likely a function of that weapon, a mid range gun as per normal, switching to a more precise fire via the normal method, like a shorter range DMR
 

Amir0x

Banned
Oct 27, 2004
103,711
3
0
36
Nowhere, PA
Wait. So its OK to be upset about a blurry, 2 Second leaked Video from a game that comes out in 13 months with an actual beta next month?

I am not upset. I will just wait until next month and Play it by myself.

I dont trust RUMORS. Remember that "XBOX Live bouncing issues before xhox one Launch"-rumor? Lol

I mean, we're operating on the assumption that this video that we can analyze with our own eyes is not fabricated in some way. If that's true, the annoyance is justified.

Sprint fucks Halo up pretty badly but to be honest if the maps are designed around it its okay. Its not completely game breaking like jet packs which basically take the formula out back and put two into the back of its skull.

On the other hand ADS is just absolutely terrible.

Now of course it could be and I'm desperately hoping its true...but it could be that they just replaced the zoom function with ADS and you don't lose any sort of movement at all. That would actually be an improvement. But if its ADS...real ADS...true ADS...Halo is dead.

The key point to take away isn't if it's "OK" for some people. It's that by adding sprint, you change the entire flow of combat from what was Halo to what is un-Halo. So if you want a Halo game, you're shit out of luck.
 

iMax

Member
Dec 5, 2012
13,413
3
645
www.neogaf.com
Alright, I'm going to tackle this at length and extensiveness. Be warned: Long post incoming.

As a die-hard Halo fan since the very first time playing Combat Evolved, I think I am able to discuss this point with confidence that my word has some merit.

Halo 4 was in no way a failure across the board like many like to accuse it of being. Loadouts, Ordnance
(Killstreaks)
, the return of Armor Abilities, these were not good ideas, plain and simple. The multiplayer of Halo was always about map control, weapon spawn memorization and skill. When loadouts were introduced into this equation, it complicated matters too much. Halo 4 Multiplayer wasn't broken just because of sprint, it technically wasn't broken at all, but it certainly wasn't Halo. Sprint does not belong in Halo multiplayer.

It's clear that 343i's Halo isn't Bungie's. The lack of sandbox levels in the campaign, the things mentioned above and vehicles as obnoxious as the Mantis solidify this point. After they noticed our reception to Halo 4 though, we were promised change. We were told the pillars of Halo would be focused on once again and that we had nothing to worry about.

Now, in a 7 second video, we see a RED DOT SIGHT on a Battle Rifle, the return of sprint yet again, and a proper aim down sight function. We saw this in a 7 second video. In 7 seconds, they have already gone back on their word to improve and have worried every Halo multiplayer fan in one fell swoop.

343, as Halo fans, we want so little in our Multiplayer. Skill ranking, no leveling system, no ADS other than weapons with it incorporated already, no sprint, fair starts with no loadouts, no killstreaks. This isn't "halting innovation" or "close mindedness", we've seen you try to incorporate these things and it didn't work at all. Halo isn't the series for these features, it wasn't 10 years ago and it isn't today.

I'm thankful that I get to play Combat Evolved, Halo 2, and Halo 3 online again because I'm afraid that after time with the Halo 5 Beta, I won't care for the future installments. This isn't what we want, Halo 4's population should show you that casual gamers didn't latch onto Halo because of these things either.

We don't want it. We don't want a Halo game like this. If you're as community oriented as you claim, stop doing the same bad things over and over again to see if they will stick, they aren't. I'm not happy with this, other Halo fans aren't happy with this, casual gamers won't become franchise fans because of this, you are pleasing nobody but yourselves.


Stinkles will definitely be in this thread so please, from a dedicated Halo fan who's typing this next to his Halo 3 Collector's Edition Master Chief Helmet, Halo Reach Statue, Halo 2 and Halo 4 Steelbook cases, and his Xbox One with the 60 GB of Master Chief Collection pre-loaded, listen to us.

We don't want this.

I want it.

Halo combat hasn't evolved in 13 years. And especially with the release of the MCC, if it's not offering anything different, why am I going to play it?
 

BokehKing

Banned
Feb 10, 2014
10,842
1
0
Long Island, NY
So Halo is automatically crap with these features? I don't understand.
People want to be stuck playing halo in a slow/fire from the hip only manner

If they stick to their guns, this will be an amazing game, about time halo evolved from that dinosaur that it was

I will buy this right now if it has ADS
 
Nov 11, 2006
32,533
0
1,055
Sprint fucks Halo up pretty badly but to be honest if the maps are designed around it its okay. Its not completely game breaking like jet packs which basically take the formula out back and put two into the back of its skull.

On the other hand ADS is just absolutely terrible.

Now of course it could be and I'm desperately hoping its true...but it could be that they just replaced the zoom function with ADS and you don't lose any sort of movement at all. That would actually be an improvement. But if its ADS...real ADS...true ADS...Halo is dead.


That's the thing though.

WE DON'T KNOW ANYTHING

And are already calling for 343 to be dead

What made Halo great was the gameplay.

ADS should NEVER be in a Halo game, EVERYONE knows this...

How do we know it's ADS and now just a replacement for BR score/zoom?
 

ultron87

Member
Jan 15, 2008
26,429
3
0
www.gamingshenanigans.blogspot.com
It's typically associated with 1. Dramatically decreased movement speed while using ADS 2. Shitty accuracy while not using ADS.

Makes it into a completely different (and worse) type of game.

I don't think this clip proves either of those things. I could see the case for 1 because the movements do seem to become more fine when they zoom in, but that could just be the player controlling it that way.

For Number 2 you can see that the reticle doesn't change at all when moving around or when you zoom in, and that it is a static reticle with no bloom or anything, which suggests a fixed accuracy between hip fire and zoom.