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[StuBurns]

When did ironsights become "ADS"

Probably when the genre moved on from WW2 and less guns actually feature iron-sights, but still had aiming down the sights.

EDIT: Reach is the best Halo. Time will see the injustice that game has faced corrected.

 

[Herpes Reasons]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=138036826&postcount=396

Uhhhh.... that post doesn't mean what you think it does...

 

[Nintendojitsu]

Sunday's were made for betrayalatons on GAF.

 

[Camjo-Z]

>ADS
>sprint

 

[Derp]

You really want that username quote, huh?

Go right ahead bro. Couldn't give two shits.

 

[CloudyTuba]

That's a battle rifle. We've always been able to aim with the battle rifle. What the hell is wrong with that? It just has an added animation now. This is sensationalist and uninformed. Could we not just wait one more day for the reveal to make complaints?

And I think this is one of the worst thread titles I've ever seen. OP should be ashamed of posting news in such a fashion. NeoGAF was meant to be better than this. EDIT: Oh good, the mods fixed it.

The overreaction is strong in this thread.

Really. Thread is great for finding new additions to the ignore list. Negative reactions are fine. "LOL FUCK YOU 343 IMMA SHIT IN YOUR CAR" is inexcusable and embarrassing to NeoGAF as a whole. These are the sorts of people I think should not even be allowed on NeoGAF.

 

[Solid Samus]

I don't see how either elements go against the "core gameplay" in any way. I mean who the fuck plays Halo for the fact that you don't see a weapon on screen when zooming in? Who really finds a sprint mechanic that sacrifices being able to shoot for slightly faster movement intolerable?

I don't see how having to stop completely in order to aim your jump, or being able to tackle all enemies from the side, in a Mario game would change it at all, because I've given it no thought whatsoever

 

[Silky]

A GUIDE TO WHY PEOPLE ARE ANNOYED FOR THE UNINITIATED

The year is 2014. The multiplayer FPS genre has been dominated by a very specific brand of aim down sights/sprint based shooters, which started really exploding with the popularity of Call of Duty. Since then, for the majority of shooters... if you want to play them, you have to deal with that type of combat and gameplay.

But there existed a time before Call of Duty. A time when Unreal Tournament and Quake existed, which were some of the most finely tuned and blazingly fast FPS multiplayer experiences ever made to this day. A time when Return to Castle Wolfenstein multiplayer was so sweetly balanced that it didn't need to hold your hand so you could hit something. The gameplay itself was so engaging and so competitive that you felt compelled to get better, and didn't need a constant feed of positive reinforcement to do so. You didn't need level ups and fuckin' attachments and stat differentials; it wasn't how much you grinded that mattered, but how much of the accumulated skill sets you internalized.

Halo existed in the between time, right when consoles were starting to be really feasible for competitive FPS titles. And it added some new things, yes, but it was still very much rooted in an older tradition, one where again it was simply skill vs. skill and the pace was entirely governed by the rules it played by which remained a staple.

Consider where we are today. One of the reasons people were so furious about Tomb Raider 2013 is that it destroyed entirely a gametype that literally no longer exists in the industry, replacing it with something we see every other goddamn day. It may have been acceptable in some remote way if we had a world where the older genre was thriving, but we don't. And it's not like the older genre was bad (quite the contrary, it remains amongst the best ideas ever had in gaming) - it's just newer gamers were conditioned to have their hands held to such an extreme that they no longer could adjust to those old gameplay ideals.

The same is true of Halo. Because there are extremely few games anymore in the old tradition. Almost no games in the old Halo tradition. They simply don't exist, squeezed out of existence by whining new fans who couldn't adjust, couldn't acquire the skill sets, and therefore demanded the few remaining vestiges of this amazing older style to be expunged. So now Halo too is becoming like all those other "me-too" shooters, and where does that leave those who actually liked that older tradition? With few if any options left.

And that's just part of the issue.

Because maybe if there was some way to do ADS/Sprint and still make it feel like Halo, people would accept it. But as demonstrated with Halo 4, there isn't. It destroyed the heart and soul of the multiplayer and the community simply abandoned it, full stop. They catered to people who did not fucking care and the result is the series cratered.

When you have ADS/Sprint, it changes the entire ebb and flow of the combat. Where before you had "Run and Gun" characteristics, now you have "Run or Gun" flow, where people are either slowing/stopping to shoot through iron sights or then engaging sprint to get out of dodge. This literally transforms the way a traditional Halo match used to go. And it doesn't transform it into something better, but something vastly different, with lower skill requirements and that feels like a billion other shooters on the market.


You don't have to be a fan of Halo to understand why this is so problematic to so many.

People need to sit the fuck down and read this.

 

[Matchew]

Looks like a lot fun.

 

[I-hate-u]

Destiny-vibe

 

[FairXchange]

Not sure if ADS should be in Halo. Doesn't seem right to me.

 

[shootfast]

It's pretty clear the game has ADS and Sprinting.

That's why people are upset and rightfully so.

No it's not clear, it could be more likely the br zoom. The leak is too crap to know anyway.

 

[zma1013]

Yeah, pretty surprising to see that on NeoGAF honestly. It's 343's fault though for literally shitting on the fans.

 

[RiderKairuu]

Looks fine to me. There's enough old school Halo out there and I know where to get that stuff when I want it. But I'm not a die hard Halo fan, so I can see why some would be upset.

 

[Drifters]

Having stopped playing Halo after 2 I can't help but feel bad for fans.

 

[Compsiox]

People want to be stuck playing halo in a slow/fire from the hip only manner

If they stick to their guns, this will be an amazing game, about time halo evolved from that dinosaur that it was

I will buy this right now if it has ADS

 

[neptunes]

Go head, get that COD paper 343i

 

[Akai__]

A GUIDE TO WHY PEOPLE ARE ANNOYED FOR THE UNINITIATED

The year is 2014. The multiplayer FPS genre has been dominated by a very specific brand of aim down sights/sprint based shooters, which started really exploding with the popularity of Call of Duty. Since then, for the majority of shooters... if you want to play them, you have to deal with that type of combat and gameplay.

But there existed a time before Call of Duty. A time when Unreal Tournament and Quake existed, which were some of the most finely tuned and blazingly fast FPS multiplayer experiences ever made to this day. A time when Return to Castle Wolfenstein multiplayer was so sweetly balanced that it didn't need to hold your hand so you could hit something. The gameplay itself was so engaging and so competitive that you felt compelled to get better, and didn't need a constant feed of positive reinforcement to do so. You didn't need level ups and fuckin' attachments and stat differentials; it wasn't how much you grinded that mattered, but how much of the accumulated skill sets you internalized.

Halo existed in the between time, right when consoles were starting to be really feasible for competitive FPS titles. And it added some new things, yes, but it was still very much rooted in an older tradition, one where again it was simply skill vs. skill and the pace was entirely governed by the rules it played by which remained a staple.

Consider where we are today. One of the reasons people were so furious about Tomb Raider 2013 is that it destroyed entirely a gametype that literally no longer exists in the industry, replacing it with something we see every other goddamn day. It may have been acceptable in some remote way if we had a world where the older genre was thriving, but we don't. And it's not like the older genre was bad (quite the contrary, it remains amongst the best ideas ever had in gaming) - it's just newer gamers were conditioned to have their hands held to such an extreme that they no longer could adjust to those old gameplay ideals.

The same is true of Halo. Because there are extremely few games anymore in the old tradition. Almost no games in the old Halo tradition. They simply don't exist, squeezed out of existence by whining new fans who couldn't adjust, couldn't acquire the skill sets, and therefore demanded the few remaining vestiges of this amazing older style to be expunged. So now Halo too is becoming like all those other "me-too" shooters, and where does that leave those who actually liked that older tradition? With few if any options left.

And that's just part of the issue.

Because maybe if there was some way to do ADS/Sprint and still make it feel like Halo, people would accept it. But as demonstrated with Halo 4, there isn't. It destroyed the heart and soul of the multiplayer and the community simply abandoned it, full stop. They catered to people who did not fucking care and the result is the series cratered.

When you have ADS/Sprint, it changes the entire ebb and flow of the combat. Where before you had "Run and Gun" characteristics, now you have "Run or Gun" flow, where people are either slowing/stopping to shoot through iron sights or then engaging sprint to get out of dodge. This literally transforms the way a traditional Halo match used to go. And it doesn't transform it into something better, but something vastly different, with lower skill requirements and that feels like a billion other shooters on the market.


You don't have to be a fan of Halo to understand why this is so problematic to so many.

Alright I am upset at that image. The the obvious reasons why:

1. ADS
2. Sprint

Halo for me has always and will always be about fast paced 4v4 combat in small maps. Midship FFA Midship 4v4 KOTH, Ball, Bomb, Lockout 1v1's Lockout FFAs Lockout 4v4 Oddball and KOTH. Et cetera. Watching MLG streams of competitive pros playing on weekends. Getting on and trying to rank up as high as I can go the rest of the week. The best part of Halo was there was always that distinct jump where you could go over to the BTB playlist and play 8v8 on huge maps with crazy unbalanced vehicles and social game and play with the dirty plebian uncleansed social zombie kids, if you maybe weren't playing that well or feeling competitive that day. I think during the split of Halo 2 and more perfectized Halo 3 split of Rank/Social they began to see maybe people weren't playing ranked as much. Of course with a ranking system that is going to happen you get your number high, you don't want to go into the next match until you've got your 3 other teammates ready to go and warmed up. This leads to a lot of social play. I think they saw this and even further bastardized the system in Halo Reach. Adding just one Arena playlist and having everything else social playlists. Of course the playlist management was atrocious for Arena and did not give the competitive players what they wanted for months and months only to be partially fixed later on. This led to a quick death of the Arena. So in Halo 4 guess what, game didnt even have a ranking system. Everything was social, the game copied so much from Call of Duty it basically was CoD in space. Well we all know what happened to the population charts in Halo 4. Dead game is dead.

When you add Sprint and more movement options available the maps have to start to accommodate that movement type. It leads to larger maps and longer corridors larger rooms and larger gaps between cover. This means if you ever are to take the Sprint out the maps no longer really "work" with the traditional movement. The addition of Sprint also sometimes means a hit to the default movement speed as well which means a slower game and Sprint usually kills strafing an ability that some of the best pros worked to really master a way to move out of shots ways while still understanding how to remain on the enemy player in terms of shots. This casualizes the game. It also makes it closer to CoD or other games that are already doing their type of FPS incredibly well. So its no surprise when games like Reach and Halo 4 statistically don't do so well when they try and be the new CoD.

Halo fans have and will always know what they want and that is Halo, They want their gun to be up and ready the entire game ready to enjoy their next 10 second loop of gun battle they want that precise moment when they know the player that showed up on their screen had the same weapon the same armor the same abilities and the thing that stood between his life and his death was how well THEY handled their controller. Their thoughts and their skill alone created victory and the rush of endorphins hits the brain and all is well. That is the moment a Halo player fiends for, craves. This is why MCC is such a wet dream to the Halo player, were going to be once again playing these games from the past that hit the formula just right or close enough that their games flaws can be overlooked. Surely you can point to a 101 errors, glitches, bugs in any Halo. However the fans loved the rush, the arena combat, saying I AM BETTER THAN YOU only by action, well sometimes with words, and so they overlooked these blemishes to the point Halo is a perfect game for some of these players.

We don't want AIM DOWN SCOPE, WE DONT WANT SPRINT, We do want social playlists but we dont want it at the cost of our ranking system! LET THEM KNOW!

Give us our Halo back akin to CE, 2, and 3. We do not want what you are feeding us lately. I urge all of you to play MCC, and if Halo 5 does add all this garbage please go back to MCC do not even touch 5 at all. Sell it back to the game store, mail it back to 343i with a No thanks letter attached, speak with actions, do not give in to an industry giant and the movement of which its going.

Anyways, I guess I got carried away. I feel strongly for these games. If anyone read that thanks!

And we are done here.

 

[Naughty_Doge]

So, this means arena shooters are dead?

 

[Blue Ninja]

Okay, can someone now explain what Aim Down Sights is and why this is bad?

Most shooter games nowadays have pretty imprecise shooting from the hip. In order to be precise, you need to aim down the sights. This slows down your movement and ups your precision. Otherwise you'll never get a kill in, unless you get up close and blow them to smithereens with a shotgun.

Halo has never had this. It's all about being mobile and precise at the same time. That's what makes Halo Halo. You can shoot someone in the head with a BR from across the map while jumping from an exploding Warthog.

This video seems to imply that 343, rather than taking a hint and realizing fans don't want more CoD in their Halo, has added more CoD into the game. I'm not entirely convinced yet, the ADS here looks purely cosmetic rather than an actual gameplay feature. The player is using it to shoot at a faraway target. He doesn't seem to lose his mobility.

What I'm saying is, there's hope still.

 

[Korosenai]

Wait. So its OK to be upset about a blurry, 2 Second leaked Video from a game that comes out in 13 months with an actual beta next month?

I am not upset. I will just wait until next month and Play it by myself.

I dont trust RUMORS. Remember that "XBOX Live bouncing issues before xhox one Launch"-rumor? Lol

If ads is in the game now, you damn well know that they aren't going to take it out just because of the beta. It's in for good.

 

[Prine]

Oh for gods sake, I HATED THIS IN TITANFALL, I think you lose the feeling of the gun, and its shit for close combat. Please 343i fuck COD

 

[Strider]

I can deal with sprint or without it. Honestly dont care on that front.

But ads? No. Nope. NOAP!

 

[Facism]

CAN SOMEONE PLEASE TELL ME WHAT ADS IS

Aim Down Sights.

Quote me, judging by the reticule (It's small, and the player fires without ADS hitting the target before using the sight) you'll be able to aim like in previous games, and that map looks great.
Also, it's a six second long off screen pixelated as fuck video. Dat forum hivemind.

dat saying the game looks great based on 6 second long off-screen pixelated-as-fuck video. Dat cherry-picking.

 

[flkraven]

Everything about this thread is hilarious. Some of the most entertaining stuff that comes out of NeoGAF starts just like this. popcorn.gif

PS - I'm in the camp that won't judge it til I try it.

 

[JigglesBunny]

I want it.

Halo combat hasn't evolved in 13 years. And especially with the release of the MCC, if it's not offering anything different, why am I going to play it?

It isn't the same series when you change the entire flow of combat. There are other series that these features work in, Halo is an arena shooter. Sprint, ADS and Killstreaks aren't the features of arena shooters.

 

[mood]

Looks like another way to visualize the battle rifle's zoom (which it has always had) function to me.

If every gun has ADS, however, then....

 

[cackhyena]

Probably when the genre moved on from WW2 and less guns actually feature iron-sights, but still had aiming down the sights.

EDIT: Reach is the best Halo. Time will see the injustice that game has faced corrected.

Yup.

 

[BigDug13]

After seeing John Wick, I've also realized that whole "slow to a crawl while ADS" mechanic is bullshit. He was moving fast while realistically maintaining full control of the gun. It should at least be 2/3 normal speed while ADS.

That being said, fuck these mechanics in Halo. Halo is supposed to be NOT like CoD. That's why XBO HAS CoD AND Halo AND Gears. Different gameplay styles. Making Halo just like CoD is totally pointless.

 

[Maintenance]

Now the only thing left is to kill Master Chief and let that other guy assume his place, then the transition will be complete.

 

[Jhn]

A GUIDE TO WHY PEOPLE ARE ANNOYED FOR THE UNINITIATED
*snip*

This is one hell of a post, friend.

 

[iMax]

When did ironsights become "ADS"

When they stopped being made from iron.

 

[Stone Ocean]

No it's not clear, it could be more likely the br zoom. The leak is too crap to know anyway.

Even if ADS is up for debate, you can't justify sprinting.

 

[shootfast]

People need to sit the fuck down and read this.

People need to sit the fuck down and not overreact to a crappy leak that may or may not be the br zooming in.

 

[Ban Puncher]

 

[Blur]

Aiming down sites is how one properly uses a gun. That's not a COD thing. I don't get why people want the gunplay in Halo stuck in 1997.

Yes because in a proper world there are Halo rings and multiplayer rounds with K/D ratios.

ADS does not fit in Halo. PERIOD.

 

[R3TRODYCE]

That looks badass. I've wanted ads in halo for years tbh.

 

[Altered Juice]

 

[Wollveren]

It's pretty clear the game has ADS and Sprinting.

That's why people are upset and rightfully so.

Yes.... it is pretty clear, but we don't know in what context. So please don't add any more fuel to the fire.

Sprint could be something as dumb as a power up or whatever, and ADS could be a new stylistic way of approaching the zoom/scope in instead.

 

[Mr. Sam]

It's always possible that sprint is one of the power-ups, like it was in Reach, though Reach's power-ups upset the balance in and of themselves.

A GUIDE TO WHY PEOPLE ARE ANNOYED FOR THE UNINITIATED

The year is 2014. The multiplayer FPS genre has been dominated by a very specific brand of aim down sights/sprint based shooters, which started really exploding with the popularity of Call of Duty. Since then, for the majority of shooters... if you want to play them, you have to deal with that type of combat and gameplay.

But there existed a time before Call of Duty. A time when Unreal Tournament and Quake existed, which were some of the most finely tuned and blazingly fast FPS multiplayer experiences ever made to this day. A time when Return to Castle Wolfenstein multiplayer was so sweetly balanced that it didn't need to hold your hand so you could hit something. The gameplay itself was so engaging and so competitive that you felt compelled to get better, and didn't need a constant feed of positive reinforcement to do so. You didn't need level ups and fuckin' attachments and stat differentials; it wasn't how much you grinded that mattered, but how much of the accumulated skill sets you internalized.

Halo existed in the between time, right when consoles were starting to be really feasible for competitive FPS titles. And it added some new things, yes, but it was still very much rooted in an older tradition, one where again it was simply skill vs. skill and the pace was entirely governed by the rules it played by which remained a staple.

Consider where we are today. One of the reasons people were so furious about Tomb Raider 2013 is that it destroyed entirely a gametype that literally no longer exists in the industry, replacing it with something we see every other goddamn day. It may have been acceptable in some remote way if we had a world where the older genre was thriving, but we don't. And it's not like the older genre was bad (quite the contrary, it remains amongst the best ideas ever had in gaming) - it's just newer gamers were conditioned to have their hands held to such an extreme that they no longer could adjust to those old gameplay ideals.

The same is true of Halo. Because there are extremely few games anymore in the old tradition. Almost no games in the old Halo tradition. They simply don't exist, squeezed out of existence by whining new fans who couldn't adjust, couldn't acquire the skill sets, and therefore demanded the few remaining vestiges of this amazing older style to be expunged. So now Halo too is becoming like all those other "me-too" shooters, and where does that leave those who actually liked that older tradition? With few if any options left.

And that's just part of the issue.

Because maybe if there was some way to do ADS/Sprint and still make it feel like Halo, people would accept it. But as demonstrated with Halo 4, there isn't. It destroyed the heart and soul of the multiplayer and the community simply abandoned it, full stop. They catered to people who did not fucking care and the result is the series cratered.

When you have ADS/Sprint, it changes the entire ebb and flow of the combat. Where before you had "Run and Gun" characteristics, now you have "Run or Gun" flow, where people are either slowing/stopping to shoot through iron sights or then engaging sprint to get out of dodge. This literally transforms the way a traditional Halo match used to go. And it doesn't transform it into something better, but something vastly different, with lower skill requirements and that feels like a billion other shooters on the market.


You don't have to be a fan of Halo to understand why this is so problematic to so many.

Co-signed.

Destiny is shit. Thats the new saying.

Haha! Co-signed.

 

[EBreda]

I don't think you understand how fundamental this mechanic is. This will change how the game plays at a very significant level.

I know exactly that this may change the game in a fundamental level. I also know not all changes are for the worse.

People in this thread automatically assume game is gonna be crap because of that. I know better. I'd rather wait before passing judgement like that.

It's kinda sad really. We could have to wait for the full game to find out. But nope, there's a beta. Let's what for that? Nah, let's base an entire thread on 2 seconds of extremely crappy footage and make assumptions right and left. Could be br zoom? Sure it could. Could it be a playlist? Yes. Could it be an old build where they were experimenting stuff? That too.

Doesn't matter. Let's hate on a clip.

 

[DopeyFish]

Even if ADS is up for debate, you can't justify sprinting.

This.

 

[bbdude]

Probably when the genre moved on from WW2 and less guns actually feature iron-sights, but still had aiming down the sights.

EDIT: Reach is the best Halo. Time will see the injustice that game has faced corrected.

I've always referred to looking down the gun's sights as "ironsights". I guess I'll have to get with the times... is there any other hip lingo I should be privvy to, or maybe a list

 

[Fried Food]

Even if ADS is up for debate, you can't justify sprinting.

did you get that backwards? Sprinting has been in halo before

 

[Crimsonclaw111]

Well at least they have the MCC still. I guess I won't bother with Halo 5 since I'd rather just play Call of Duty at that point.

 

[Markitron]

When did ironsights become "ADS"

First time I heard it was the CoD4 tutorial in 2007, seems fair to say since that was the game that popularised the mechanic.

 

[JetBlackPanda]

I love ADS! its perfect in Destiny. However Halo should be left alone.

 

[Zakalwe]

it looked normal to me.

Yes, it did.

 

[SerTapTap]

A GUIDE TO WHY PEOPLE ARE ANNOYED FOR THE UNINITIATED

Thanks for posting this. Completely agreed.

 

[Jessie.Bristol]

All I know is, tomorrow we will know for sure how Halo 5 plays. I am reserving judgement until I see extended gameplay. As long as they keep Classic Playlists, I will be fine with any new changes. I would probably switch back and forth frequently though, because I'm sick like that .