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Halo 5: Guardians |OT5| Is HaloGAF irrelevant now?

Akai__

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Jun 14, 2012
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The fact most pros want it out and scrims went great and were fun to watch yet 343 is keeping it in for HWC 2017 is a real head scratcher.
I always thought this was because of 343i not splitting HCS into it's own playlist, so people who want to try Team Arena (the only 4vs4 playlist with objective modes until recently) can play this without a major change.

Not sure if my post was confusing, but I asked about the pros that thought that maps play better with radar. I haven't asked for a pro that thinks that a hybrid radar will work better than no radar, without even knowing how that hybrid radar will even work. And the question is why isn't he debating it? Did he get to play the Hybrid Radar stuff, but we aren't allowed to know? Just curious.

+ snipedown and lethul on their streams
I was watching Lethul the other day and he said that he liked the No Radar scrimms, but he needs to play more to make a final decision. Guess he changed his mind, because I also believe you that he said that on the stream. And Snipedown also literally said that he always prefered No Radar in older Halo games and he even made a video where he talks about No Radar. I know it's a coupple weeks old by now, but I highly doubt he changed his mind on that. His points are still very vaild.
 

jem0208

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Jul 17, 2013
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I always thought this was because of 343i not splitting HCS into it's own playlist, so people who want to try Team Arena (the only 4vs4 playlist with objective modes until recently) can play this without a major change.



Not sure if my post was confusing, but I asked about the pros that thought that maps play better with radar. I haven't asked for a pro that thinks that a hybrid radar will work better than no radar, without even knowing how that hybrid radar will even work. And the question is why isn't he debating it? Did he get to play the Hybrid Radar stuff, but we aren't allowed to know? Just curious.



I was watching Lethul the other day and he said that he liked the No Radar scrimms, but he needs to play more to make a final decision. Guess he changed his mind, because I also believe you that he said that on the stream. And Snipedown also literally said that he always prefered No Radar in older Halo games and he even made a video where he talks about No Radar. I know it's a coupple weeks old by now, but I highly doubt he changed his mind on that. His points are still very vaild.
He also says radar plays better than no radar...

Radar that detects abilities but not walking / crouching > Radar > No radar
 

Akai__

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Jun 14, 2012
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He also says radar plays better than no radar...
I honestly read that as hybrid > no radar > radar. My bad.

But still, I want to know why he thinks that and if he is one of the players that is dominating with Radar and if he relies too much on it. The "not debating it" part is really putting me off. I just don't get it.
 

hwalker84

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Apr 25, 2007
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What the hell is going on with this latest update? Several matches my controller scheme has changed to something completely random as did my buddy. Last match of warzone I played LT became throw grenade and LB became boost. Looked in the menu and my selection was still the default.
 

Samurai G0SU

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Jan 3, 2015
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What the hell is going on with this latest update? Several matches my controller scheme has changed to something completely random as did my buddy. Last match of warzone I played LT became throw grenade and LB became boost. Looked in the menu and my selection was still the default.
Ill take that excuse on my squirrely aim today. I over aimed so much today its not even funny. :(

But i use default so maybe i didnt see any type of button swapping on my end.
 

hwalker84

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Ill take that excuse on my squirrely aim today. I over aimed so much today its not even funny. :(

But i use default so maybe i didnt see any type of button swapping on my end.
I play default as well. What I'm saying is the game seems to have a bug now where your scheme changes but still says default in the menu.

At first I thought it was my controller. Then I had a warzone firefight change me and my buddies control scheme to something completely different than what the default is.
 

Fahzgoolin

Banned
Jun 12, 2014
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A radar detecting thrusts and sprint would be rad... Pretty sure I would like no radar period, but that seems like a fair compromise.
 

YourExWife

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May 23, 2012
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What the hell is going on with this latest update? Several matches my controller scheme has changed to something completely random as did my buddy. Last match of warzone I played LT became throw grenade and LB became boost. Looked in the menu and my selection was still the default.
This happened to me when we tried to do customs the other night. I thought my elite was broken or something, but then everything was working fine once I quit the game. Rejoined and all my controls were fucked again. Never had it happen in matchmaking though.
 
Mar 30, 2015
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I want to see that pro that says that any map plays better with radar, because I won't believe this for a second. I have watched the radar-less scrims and I've watched Snakebites/Ryanoobs take on it and they were all saying that the game played much better, since it opens up the maps more and different ways of engaging are possible, without being spotted immediately. People also didn't crouch as much with an auto-rifle in a corner, because of this.

Must have been a pro that was dominating with radar, because otherwise that makes absolutely zero sense.
Blue_phazon already mentioned it but snipedown said it after finishing a map when they were scrimming with no radar and I think his teammates agreed. Can't recall the map or game type they were playing though.

I'm with you though and they should just test no radar right now in team arena and see what the community thinks. That's what this time is for but it is already very close to the first HWC qualifier.

My biggest complaint though is how that blog post makes it sound like the community just recently started complaining about radar. A lot of people have been complaining about radar since day 1 and it seems like just now 343 is reacting to it and working on a modified radar. I feel like this should have been a major priority for the most recent update.
 

jem0208

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Jul 17, 2013
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Blue_phazon already mentioned it but snipedown said it after finishing a map when they were scrimming with no radar and I think his teammates agreed. Can't recall the map or game type they were playing though.

I'm with you though and they should just test no radar right now in team arena and see what the community thinks. That's what this time is for but it is already very close to the first HWC qualifier.

My biggest complaint though is how that blog post makes it sound like the community just recently started complaining about radar. A lot of people have been complaining about radar since day 1 and it seems like just now 343 is reacting to it and working on a modified radar. I feel like this should have been a major priority for the most recent update.
I've been following H5 esports since the start release and I honestly only recently started seeing lots of people complaining about it.

There were one of two before hand but nothing like now.
 

Tashi

343i Lead Esports Producer
Jun 16, 2008
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This may be an obvious question but when they say the season of HWC 2017, does that mean the entire year?

EDIT: As in will we have to wait until the end of the year before seeing any changes to radar?
Halo World Championship 2017 will go until the end of March-ish.

Blue_phazon already mentioned it but snipedown said it after finishing a map when they were scrimming with no radar and I think his teammates agreed. Can't recall the map or game type they were playing though.

I'm with you though and they should just test no radar right now in team arena and see what the community thinks. That's what this time is for but it is already very close to the first HWC qualifier.

My biggest complaint though is how that blog post makes it sound like the community just recently started complaining about radar. A lot of people have been complaining about radar since day 1 and it seems like just now 343 is reacting to it and working on a modified radar. I feel like this should have been a major priority for the most recent update.
There were definitely complaints about radar from the start, but the pros collectively didn't feel the need to change/update it until recently. But yea, I can see how someone who's been pushing for radar updates since launch would be pissed off. Definitely not the intention.
 

RedSparrows

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Aug 13, 2009
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Ah, the perennial radar debate.

Presumably 'no radar' people want it gone only for pro matches, right? Cos one of the complaints you see about Halo 5 is that it's 'hardcore' over 'normal', and taking radar away from non-pros would be terrible for them.
 

heytred

Neo Member
Aug 20, 2012
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I've been saying this for almost a year, even dating back to when I was with 343 Industries:

Simply removing radar is not going to help. In order for that to be an even viable option you would have to do two things. 1) nerf the AR *and* 2) remove/nerf Spartan Charge.

No radar only exacerbates the autos issue. No longer are autos ''balanced' by crouch. I know that sounds silly, but mobility is countered by the presence of radar. You think they are annoying now? Wait until a guy can spawn, flank, and spray with little to no repercussions.

Don't get me started on no radar Spartan Charge...

No radar viability would either require the above or a full commitment to no radar BR starts and that opens a whole new can of worms regarding map movement, spawn traps, camping, etc. The maps and layout just are not optimized well for BRs and I don't see 343 making the sweeping changes necessary to make that the case.
 

jem0208

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Jul 17, 2013
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I've been saying this for almost a year, even dating back to when I was with 343 Industries:

Simply removing radar is not going to help. In order for that to be an even viable option you would have to do two things. 1) nerf the AR *and* 2) remove/nerf Spartan Charge.

No radar only exacerbates the autos issue. No longer are autos ''balanced' by crouch. I know that sounds silly, but mobility is countered by the presence of radar. You think they are annoying now? Wait until a guy can spawn, flank, and spray with little to no repercussions.

Don't get me started on no radar Spartan Charge...

No radar viability would either require the above or a full commitment to no radar BR starts and that opens a whole new can of worms regarding map movement, spawn traps, camping, etc. The maps and layout just are not optimized well for BRs and I don't see 343 making the sweeping changes necessary to make that the case.
Ehhh ARs needing a nerf is debatable.

I'd argue that the removal of radar would decrease AR usage because you won't have knowledge of enemy positions before hand. With radar before you round a corner you know exactly how far away a player is so you can easily judge whether or not to switch to an auto. Without radar you don't know whether they're within optimal range of an auto so sticking with the pistol is a safer option. You also have the reverse where if you know a player is about to come around the corner you're more likely to switch to an auto to counter them.

We've also had no-radar scrims between pros and auto usage decreased quite a lot.
 

heytred

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Aug 20, 2012
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Ehhh ARs needing a nerf is debatable.

I'd argue that the removal of radar would decrease AR usage because you won't have knowledge of enemy positions before hand. With radar before you round a corner you know exactly how far away a player is so you can easily judge whether or not to switch to an auto. Without radar you don't know whether they're within optimal range of an auto so sticking with the pistol is a safer option. You also have the reverse where if you know a player is about to come around the corner you're more likely to switch to an auto to counter them.

We've also had no-radar scrims between pros and auto usage decreased quite a lot.
You could argue that, but sadly it's not the case. It's been tested extensively - autos in general are stronger with no radar because there are few repercussions for pushing into close range.

Also, those scrims are not a good gauge of the direction the meta would take with no radar as it's played more. Just because they opt to utility weapons more, doesn't mean that's the 'best' way to play - and when money's on the line, pros are always going to do what gives them the best chance to win.
 

jem0208

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Jul 17, 2013
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You could argue that, but sadly it's not the case. It's been tested extensively - autos in general are stronger with no radar because there are few repercussions for pushing into close range.

Also, those scrims are not a good gauge of the direction the meta would take with no radar as it's played more. Just because they opt to utility weapons more, doesn't mean that's the 'best' way to play - and when money's on the line, pros are always going to do what gives them the best chance to win.
Fair enough if that's what you guys found.
 

op_ivy

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Great news about radar. Take your time, get it right, launch 6 with all we've learned
 
Mar 30, 2015
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I've been following H5 esports since the start release and I honestly only recently started seeing lots of people complaining about it.

There were one of two before hand but nothing like now.
After summer pro league I felt like enough people had complained about radar and 343 should have started working on the modified radar then. You're right though that recently it's pretty much unanimous that radar needs to be addressed.

There were definitely complaints about radar from the start, but the pros collectively didn't feel the need to change/update it until recently. But yea, I can see how someone who's been pushing for radar updates since launch would be pissed off. Definitely not the intention.
Appreciate the response, Tashi. I totally get that some pro players weren't on board for changing radar until recently. Like I already mentioned some pros still prefer radar over no radar. I was just really hoping we would get that modified radar for HWC2017. It's disappointing. And then you see some people over at TB saying they've lost interest in watching HWC2017 because of radar. Personally I don't fully buy that and that's just a hot take when emotions are high. But it is still a little concerning to see and had the modified radar been ready for HWC2017 we would probably see people getting hyped and continuing that momentum after the awesome pro league finals.
 

hwalker84

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This happened to me when we tried to do customs the other night. I thought my elite was broken or something, but then everything was working fine once I quit the game. Rejoined and all my controls were fucked again. Never had it happen in matchmaking though.
Happened to me in ranked. Just thought the new playlist disabled sprint of something. I was getting wrecked.
 

Garrett 2U

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Jan 11, 2012
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I think the biggest reason to stick with radar is so that Arena settings are as similar to other Core game modes as possible.

Competitive Halo players have had this debate for ages; if the Arena settings are unrecognizable when compared to the base settings, a large population of casual players won't even try it.
And on top of balance issues, I think radar adds a layer of metagame with movement and silenced weapons.

I'm very intrigued to learn more about these radar settings, and I'm amazed we're actually getting toggleable options to play with. Juices would be proud.
 

FUNKNOWN iXi

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May 27, 2012
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I don't think a significant portion of players will ignore a playlist just because it doesn't have radar, or even an altered radar, especially when SWAT remains one of the most popular playlists.

Let people try it in that "beta playlist" they mentioned, if that's still a thing they're planning. Let's just hope it's not forgotten or dismissed like those times we had hope for
BTB Pistol starts.
 

Strider

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Jul 23, 2013
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I don't think a significant portion of players will ignore a playlist just because it doesn't have radar, or even an altered radar, especially when SWAT remains one of the most popular playlists.

Let people try it in that "beta playlist" they mentioned, if that's still a thing they're planning. Let's just hope it's not forgotten or dismissed like those times we had hope for
BTB Pistol starts.
pffffft please.

There was never hope for BTB pistol starts...

:(
 

Garrett 2U

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I don't think a significant portion of players will ignore a playlist just because it doesn't have radar, or even an altered radar, especially when SWAT remains one of the most popular playlists.

Let people try it in that "beta playlist" they mentioned, if that's still a thing they're planning. Let's just hope it's not forgotten or dismissed like those times we had hope for
BTB Pistol starts.
I'm referring to the idea of BR starts, no spartan abilities, and no radar.
I think radar could be removed, but I appreciate that they're trying to make changes to it rather than removing it all together right away.

And maybe if it is successful, those changes could make it into Halo 6 as default.
 

heytred

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Aug 20, 2012
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You say that like it would be a bad thing. ;)
No, simply that it's unlikely. Since the beginning it's been 343's goal to maintain similarity between the 'core' Halo experience and the competitive one. It's pretty obvious they are trying to make changes/improvements that won't muddy Halo 5's identity.
 

FUNKNOWN iXi

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Random, but Social Skirmish is great. Feels good to play some 4v4's with a mix of different gametypes without caring much about performance. It's a pretty lax playlist imo, even with the occasional parties trying to pubstomp randies.
 

Tashi

343i Lead Esports Producer
Jun 16, 2008
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Appreciate the response, Tashi. I totally get that some pro players weren't on board for changing radar until recently. Like I already mentioned some pros still prefer radar over no radar. I was just really hoping we would get that modified radar for HWC2017. It's disappointing. And then you see some people over at TB saying they've lost interest in watching HWC2017 because of radar. Personally I don't fully buy that and that's just a hot take when emotions are high. But it is still a little concerning to see and had the modified radar been ready for HWC2017 we would probably see people getting hyped and continuing that momentum after the awesome pro league finals.
It's extremely difficult to quantify the impact things have on viewership, especially when there are so many factors that go into it. I obviously hate to see fans say they're not interested in watching anymore, but I think we made the right decision for this situation. I'm hoping we get these updated radar options out the door real soon so we can do some thorough testing publicly.

We've had some absolutely incredible matches and tournaments played in Halo 5 thus far, and I think HaloWC 2017 will be the best yet. The scene is a lot more competitive than it was a year ago, and I hope people from all over will tune in.
 

BizzyBum

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Yeah, I think the people saying they are not watching HCS anymore because of radar is just hyperbole at this point. Matches have been awesome with it on, can't wait to see how a hybrid radar would change the pro game.
 

Trup1aya

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Jan 18, 2015
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Yeah, I think the people saying they are not watching HCS anymore because of radar is just hyperbole at this point. Matches have been awesome with it on, can't wait to see how a hybrid radar would change the pro game.
Looking at the people who make those comments on TB, I always see most of them in twitch chat talking about how crazy the LAN matches are.

They are speaking out of frustration, and are probably trying to scare 343 into action.

The sprint and weapons balance issues are valid concerns though.
 

Samurai G0SU

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Jan 3, 2015
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Ugh... im stil trying to get my groove back after my couple month hiatus.

Squirrly aim still and i cant even get perfects anymore. Im really a scrub now.

Getting obliterated in skirmish by teams. I quit one game because the when i spawned, 1-2 seconds later id get teamshot or just outright destroyed.

Skirmish got too sweaty, too fast for me.

I do have to say that some matches are having server issues. Like a rubberband enemy once or twice but thats it. Idk, maybe im looking for an excuse but i believe i cant acheive onyx in slayer anymore the way im playing.

Feels bad man... rip
 
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I think people are just starting to troll with how op autos are in this game. Just played a team of 4 all 2000+ Onyx that used AR and SMG combos all game on plaza strongholds. One of the most frustrating games I've ever played.
 

op_ivy

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Man, reach has not aged well. Bloom is terrible, even in campaign. Also, tiny jumps...
 

op_ivy

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2, 3, and 4 feel fine to me, or did before 5 came out (haven't gone back since). Ce' s jumps are a bit too floaty and the movement feels a bit awkward- there's a weird lag time between jumps and landings.

Again though, after 5 they all may be hard to return too
 

Fuchsdh

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Jan 14, 2012
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The problem with Reach to me isn't the feel, it's the practical necessity to play the game a certain way. Even on Legendary in other Halo games I feel like I have a lot more options on choosing how I want to run encounters, but Reach is basically "EMP + headshot from as far away as you can manage." There's very little that's satisfying about engaging the enemies from a distance, especially when one of your precision weapons makes them jump around so much that you waste half your clip.

There's so many encounters in the campaign that would 100% feel better to play in basically any other Halo game.
 

Fata1moose

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Sep 11, 2012
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Anyone want to go for the score attack achievements in Halo 5? Wouldn't mind running through the campaign again.
 

BizzyBum

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So how are people feeling about the new Arena map settings?
Honestly, I haven't even played them yet. With social out now I haven't stepped foot in the ranked playlists. Now that they are separated, Team Arena would be even worse going in solo.

From some scrims I've watched they seem like good changes. Can't go wrong with less splinters and storm rifles. No caster on rig is great, too.