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Halo for Xbox One is Halo 5? *gasp*
- Thread starter Overdoziz
- Start date
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
I think it can be argued the other way around actually:
- Reach's art style
- Removal of Powerups
- Loadouts
- Fucking molasses ass movement/jump height
- Introduction of sprint
- Introduction of AA's
- Bloom
- Heavy militaristic approach in design
- Did I mention all the brown and mud?
- The list goes on..
Sure Halo 4 took away power weapon timing to an extent and introduced perks and some other CoD elements, but Reach's overall design just screamed CoD to me at the time. Halo 4 brought us:
- Faster, more consistent gameplay
- Better maps (excluding Anniversary) that felt more like "Halo" over Reach's
- No mud and brown everywhere (aside from those damn rocks..
)except Kryptonite on Shatter!
- Return of MC
- Gameplay that generally felt more like Halo than Reach, proven more through several updates.
mah man
NobleGundam
Banned
^Anyways..
PhantomHound
Banned
Add Anniversary for the art style and it will be great needs more grenade launcher from reach and the H3 chopper as well though. Maybe the CE pistol and the needle rifle for good measure.
Quite easily! Swordbase was actually fun to play on, while countdown was a piece of shit that was frustrating to play on.
Oh and i forgot to mention the biggest reason Reach MP didn't click with me, Armor lock spam! Fucking armor lock spam! Fuck armor lock! The fact that H4 doesn't have it at all automatically made the MP better than Reach. Also no "promethean Vision" is not as bad as Armor Lock spam, not even close.
Not saying that H4 MP is perfect in anyway there is shit i don't like about it( fucking Bolt shot for example) but for me it was far superior to Reach.
Reach and Halo 4 are both shit.
Except Anniversary or very stripped down variants of the gameplay, but both games have shitty maps.
Swordbase is supershit. Countdown is better but no perfect map.
Zealot is the best map of Reach.
Give me a real Halo CE 2 or I'm also ok with a new Halo 2.
Except Anniversary or very stripped down variants of the gameplay, but both games have shitty maps.
Swordbase is supershit. Countdown is better but no perfect map.
Zealot is the best map of Reach.
Give me a real Halo CE 2 or I'm also ok with a new Halo 2.
Ragnarok Flames
Banned
- Palmer
- Ordnance
- Loadouts
- native sprint
- Introduction of perks
- Introduction of more garbage AA's
- Flinch
- Heavy militaristic approach in design
- Multiple patches and a piss poor approach to the community
- The list goes on..
lets not act Like either Reach or 4 are good. both are pretty much shit tier. but anniversary is the only way i can play Reach. haven't played Halo 4 because of framerate drops and shitty maps.(with the exception of like 4 maps.)
No more sprint (kills map control)
No more ordnance (kills map control)
No more AA (they were stupid since halo 3)
No more damned stairs... make everything ramps. PLEASE. Stairs kill the grenade game. (can't believe this is the third time I have to say this)
Bring back Contesting
Bring back lost the lead/gained the lead/flag dropped/etc - these were useful cues
Remove indicators for things like the flag when people are carrying it. -these just made objective a shitfest
Bring back proper ranking (Halo 2)
Make the game fun again.
No more ordnance (kills map control)
No more AA (they were stupid since halo 3)
No more damned stairs... make everything ramps. PLEASE. Stairs kill the grenade game. (can't believe this is the third time I have to say this)
Bring back Contesting
Bring back lost the lead/gained the lead/flag dropped/etc - these were useful cues
Remove indicators for things like the flag when people are carrying it. -these just made objective a shitfest
Bring back proper ranking (Halo 2)
Make the game fun again.
Final Boss
Banned
It's straightforward if I read the halo books? Haha
Bro. Do you know the significance of your username and how it relates to Halo?
Demoncarnotaur
Member
Harder to nail what exact art style to adopt when each game did bring something pretty good to the table:
Basically, Halo works best when it offers a range of color pallets and environments, and if the game can offer many contrasting locales and styles it could only benefit from it.
BlazeBreak
Member
- I consider Halo 4's "faster" gameplay to be one of its biggest CoD-like offenders. Elements of Reach's game flow - such as sprinting away from losing engagements did introduce slowdown, so taking steps to speed it up a bit wasn't a bad thing, but H4 took it completely overboard. (Beyond the obvious of opponent's team gaining points in Slayer gametypes,) There's absolutely no penalty for death because you spawn back into the game and can get back to where you were way too quickly. It also forced strategy-decreasing overhauls to Multiflag and made One Flag and Assault gametypes impossible because you can flood the map into your opponent's base way too quickly.
- Halo 4 does have a couple of nice arena maps, but the majority are messy maps that are just a collection of random objects and geometry. Particularly on its BTB maps. There are entire sections and bases on some of them that are just... there.
- Maybe there's less of a "muddy" look to its maps, but basically every single one can be classified as using the same UNSC or Forerunner pallet.
- ...How does the return of Master Chief make the game's design "Less CoD"...?
- Yeah, Reach set the groundwork for AAs, but 4's introduction of perks is ridiculous. It completely randomizes everything about your opponents. And the DLC ones are ridiculously game-breaking. "Gee, when I blow up this vehicle, I wonder if any of its occupants will fly out completely unharmed!"
HiredN00bs
Member
Man, if they just made the multiplayer like Halo 2 and Halo 3 we could enjoy dual-wielding complicating damage tables, "superjump" glitches, fire and forget ability pickups that are hidden to other players until used, animation glitches for altering firing rates and action timing, aim assist turned up to 11, very imprecise spawning weapons, somewhat imprecise precision weapons, disruptive geometric detail, script kitties running mods with spawn traps and automatic snipers, douchebag dudebros slapping their e-peens EVERYWHERE, and a field of view equivalent to playing with an upside down lampshade on your head.
How is the gameplay more consistent? The game has perks, wall hacks, one-shot kill weapons, and killstreaks. Way more variables and randomness than in Reach, whose greatest offenders were a AAs and bloom.
The maps in 4 weren't much better than Reach either. They both have terrible selections, 4 might actually be worse due to the insane amount of mediocre BTB maps and general disregard for 4v4 gameplay.
Do you think that'll be enough to revive people's interest in Halo though, by just going back to basics? As much as I like H2/H3's balanced, arena style gameplay, they kinda feel outdated. Starting with the assault rifle every game and racing to find a BR before your opponents/teammates is frustrating. Not being able to sprint also feels kinda weird considering every FPS these days has it.
I think what 343i has to do to make people (both casual and hardcore) interested in Halo is to make a pure, but completely modern arena shooter that's accessible for today's audience. I don't know how they'd go about doing that but the answer isn't just making Halo 3 with better graphics. I'd like to see them redefine what a console arena shooter can be. To do something no one else is doing (or has done). I mean look at the hype and interest Titanfall has generated by shaking up what's essentially the CoD formula.
Titanfall is no arena shooter though. Sprint is also very bad in Arena Shooters IMO.
AR starts are bad. So there are already these points you have to ignore.
And you can change the gameup without alienating the gameplay further away from Halo.
Also damn HiredNoobs still salty he is the only one who thinks Reach is the best Halo.
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
Because it brought back a singular entity to follow throughout the campaign, and plus MC is m'dude. Yeah, it was a bad example towards the CoD argument, but it made me like it over Reach's campaign that much more.
I found those perks to be less offensive than the removal of Powerups and introduction of AA's in your loadouts. Removing Powerups from the gameplay really killed Reach for me, something integral to Halo combat.
The AA's were pretty much all shit too. Active Camo, Armor Lock, Jet Pack, the hell with all of 'em..
Not that I'm saying that, but it did more for the franchise in terms of consistency than Reach did. Reach was a massive step back in pretty much all areas except a few things IMO.
That being said, they both harmed the franchise in different ways, probably equally. Halo 4 at least improved upon some areas I find to be important to gameplay (movement, shooting mechanics, consistency).
In the shoot-bang department; better netcode, more consistent weapons.
HiredN00bs
Member
It is the best online Halo game. Every other one is riddled with annoying issues. Annoying as they may be at times, I can deal with armor abilities and bloom. What I can't stand are glitches, lag, and Halo 4's muddled game structure. Halo 4 has some really obnoxious sound glitches, too.
What I meant was for Halo 5 to do to arena shooters what Titanfall has done to CoD-esque shooters. Dramatically shake up the formula is all.
Bornstellar
Member
Gimme news pls.
Aggggghhhh.
Aggggghhhh.
Naked Lunch
Member
Im a huge huge Halo fan and I absolutely hated Halo 4 when it first came out. Nearly ruined the franchise for me. 343 had the Halo "look" down to a tee - but the gameplay just felt off. But I must say I gave it a second chance and a second look after last year's summer gameplay patch and my opinion 180'd. Like night and day. There is still no other shooter quite like Halo even H4. The H4 world championships broadcast live on XBL was amazing and helped too.
I still play H4 multiplayer quite often. 343 did a serviceable job for their first game out of the gate. I am highly excited for H5 and I expect great things - I have a really good feeling about it.
I still play H4 multiplayer quite often. 343 did a serviceable job for their first game out of the gate. I am highly excited for H5 and I expect great things - I have a really good feeling about it.
Silphonica
Banned
Falling on deaf ears. The problem is, their vision for what they want Halo to be and what the majority of people want halo to be are two different things. Resulting in poor online numbers.
Something that seems small really affects major gameplay mechanics. Sprint has ruined maps, not even for control, but for scale. Has ruined the flow of halo, what people love.
I have no problem with the addition of new weapons etc, but ordinance drops make me sad.
I've said this before but it seems with Halo 4 they've really only want to cater to one particular margin of their fanbase where as if you look at Halo 2, the maps were diverse.
Geometry is unfortunate aswell, the extra nooks and crannies has ruined many gameplay features for me.
I would be happy with H2 on xbox one arcade tbh.
BlazeBreak
Member
Exactly. Halo 4 has a very narrow design scope. It completely dropped one-sided maps and focused on only a very few gametypes.
I have absolutely no hope of the next game delivering on anything until it's actually in people's hands. Halo 4's been nothing but broken promises. The latest of such instances being all the talk about how much they've learned from the community and then going and adding the earlier mentioned new, even more game-wrecking perks in the Champions DLC.
That is a fair point Halo should deliver those environment's like those you posted Halo 4 didn't really deliver those. Another thing that is a must for me is less Palmer in a central role introduce a new character that is likable unlike her.
I think the actual problem was having a purely one-sided map like Abandon and having symmetrical gametypes on it like CTF rather than one-flag. One team gets the high ground, while the other spawns, along with their flag, downhill. It makes no sense.
Honestly, the maps in Halo 4 were poorly designed. They lacked identity. What was Complex really trying to achieve gameplay wise? It failed to fill any present niche in War Games. The map was too small for BTB, and too big for 4v4 games. Now 6v6 could work on it, but that wasn't ever an option. Even if a 6v6 playlist were available, the structure of Complex was simply poor. The central structure was fundamentally overpowered; if you get to the roof of the building first, you could hold your position for ages. The roof was too spacious, and the map was too open, especially with a DMR in the sandbox.
The DMR just straight up screws over map design in general. The Valhalla remake, Ragnarok is the most affected out of the bunch. I know most people can agree that Valhalla was an amazing map to play on, and while it's not perfect by any means, it felt like pure Halo to me. So why isn't Ragnarok good? It's too damn open for a game with 2 starting weapons that can shoot across the whole map on a dime. So I feel like that Valhalla was a poor choice for a remake with the sandbox of Halo 4.
Next on my map hitlist is Solace. On paper this map seems fundamentally sound. What's not to love about a symmetrical, Arena map? In fact, it was one of my most anticipated maps leading up to H4's launch. Yet when I finally got to play it, I realized just how wrong I was about its quality. First off, it's not truly symmetrical. Playing CTF on this map is clearest at giving this fact away. One base is much easier to defend (especially with a boltshot), while the other has more entrances. Why wouldn't 343i just dive in all the way rather then make a half-hearted attempt? What in the world would a nearly symmetrical map bring to the table? Now if you play Team Slayer on the map, the base issue isn't as big of a deal. However, movement throughout Solace feels clunky. This is partially due to the fact that the map is so 1-dimensional. Yes there is a lower level to the map, but there is never anyone down there in a game of TS. Why would anyone want to go down there? First off, it's feels sectioned-off from the main playing space, nor is it a viable flanking path. The only reason to go down there would be to get the Incineration Cannon. So when you grab it, what's the next thing you do? Jump in the gravity lift as quick as possible to get back to the action up top.
Honestly, the real heart of the map design issue comes back to purely gameplay. Everything in Halo 4's sandbox makes it too damn hard to design a quality map for Halo 4, but there were faults in the decisions made about these maps that were blatantly overlooked. If Solace was a map in Halo 3, I'd probably enjoy more than Isolation to be honest. Map design is only one of the problems in Halo 4 that 343 needs to fix, but I enjoy talking about maps so I figure I would share my input.
Adrift and Haven are the best maps in H4 to me. I thought for sure i would hate adrift the first time i saw it , but when i finally got to play it it turned out to be one of my favorite maps in any Halo game. Haven is another map i love playing on, in many ways i see it as Halo 4's "Narrows"( probably my favorite Halo 3 map) just fun as hell to play on. Skyline was good but it almost never pops up in slayer anymore , at least that's how it was the last time i played. Land Fall is a pretty decent map too. Can't fucking stand Solace though. Longbow, Exile, Meltdown and Ragnarok are the only BTB maps i enjoy. Complex is just shit all around, it's almost as bad as countdown. Almost....
SatansReverence
Hipster Princess
Loves Adrift, hates countdown.
WTF?
They follow essentially the same base map design (corridors lifts corridors) which makes them both pure garbage. At least Countdown didn't have every single player spawning with a shotgun.
As for Reach maps, some of the forge maps were by far the best in the game. Who cares if they were all grey, the actual design of the maps and the gameplay they supported was in every way superior than the garbage Reach released with and got through DLC.
Synapse was an amazing team orientated Arena map.
Select was a great redesign of Narrows.
Kingdom was a perfect lesson in simplicity.
Bungies Forge maps were pure arse though in both design and execution.
Cmon dude, you're combining elements of 2 and 3 and acting like they were the same game.
- Dual wielding. A legitimate complaint, it was a stupid gimmick, and I'm glad it's gone, but post patch H2 which made nades and melees more powerful (especially combined with BR starts) nullified dual wielding to a great degree. And in Halo 3, almost nobody dual wielded anymore anyway.
- Superjumps were a Halo 2 only issue, and nobody is acting like it was a good thing.
- Fire and forget abilities? I'm assuming you're talking about Halo 3 equipment here? If that's the case, then the problem is even worse in Reach/H4.
- Button glitches. Halo 2 had them, Halo 3 didn't. Honestly, Halo 2 would've been a much worse game without BXR/BXB/doubleshot, it added a layer of depth to the game, and made melee battles a lot more skillful than the shit fest they've been from Halo 3 on.
- Aim assist. This is an odd one, since Halo 2 and 3 were extremely different from each other in this area. Halo 2 had the most aim assist of the series, while Halo 3 had the least aside from Halo: CE. Reach and Halo 4 clearly have more aim assist than Halo 3, especially on precision weapons like the BR/Sniper/Carbine etc.
- Imprecise starting weapons. Yeah, SMG/AR starts were stupid, but the community endlessly bitched about this even at the time, and it was a problem easily resolved just by changing the starting weapon to the BR.
- Somewhat imprecise precision weapons. Another odd criticism considering how wildly different Halo 2 and 3 were from each other in this area. Halo 2's BR was very accurate post patch (try loading up split screen and shooting from very long range, like well outside the range when your crosshair stops turning red, you'll still 4 shot most of the time), the Sniper obviously had 100% accuracy (except for a tiny bit of imprecision while no-scoping), and the Carbine was very accurate too (though less so than the BR). Halo 3 was totally different here than Halo 2, the BR had horrible accuracy, even shooting from top lift to mid sniper on Guardian against a standstill player, you'll average 6 shots to kill simply due to the terrible accuracy. The Carbine was better, though still somewhat inaccurate, and the Sniper retained perfect accuracy.
- Disruptive geometric detail. This problem didn't exist in Halo 2, while it was horrible in Halo 3. Extremely annoying, though this problem still exists in Reach/H4 (though not to the same extent).
- Modders. A problem in Halo 2 (especially the first few months after launch), pretty much non existent in Halo 3. This doesn't actually have anything to do with the game, though.
- Douchebags. Are you seriously acting like this is any better now than it used to be? And as if this has anything to do with the actual game?
- Terrible FOV. A legit problem, very annoying, but this isn't any better now than it was in Halo 2/3. Try playing widescreen in Halo 2, the FOV is the same as it is in recent games.
Halo 2 and 3 were very different games with very different problems, it makes no more sense to group them together than it does for 3/Reach. I'd take the problems from either of those games over Reach and Halo 4 though, that's for sure.
The biggest problem with Halo 2 and 3 was something you didn't mention, which is that both had freaking AWFUL netcode. Halo 2 in particular, the game had no lag/latency compensation whatsoever when you're shooting an opponent at range, meaning that off-host, the BR was basically useless even when you're shooting an opponent as close as red to blue base on Midship. The Sniper had the same problem, you couldn't shoot somebody farther than red base to Rocket spawn on Coagulation and expect your shot to register off-host. How Bungie could possibly overlook an issue that huge, I have no idea, but it was terrible. Host was basically god in Halo 2 over XBL. There were other, though lesser issues with Halo 2 online, like grenades not coming out off-host until a full second after you throw them (meaning it was impossible to throw a grenade off host a second before you die), etc. that have been resolved in later games.
Halo 3 resolved the long range shooting and last second grenade issues, but it also had the worst online hit detection of the series - instead of hit detection being solid at close-medium range and nonexistent at long range like Halo 2, it was simply mediocre to bad at all ranges in Halo 3. The amount of times a guy with no shields lived through 3 perfect BR bursts to the head, or a clear headshot with the sniper (confirmed by going into theater mode and watching from third person in slow motion) was ludicrous. It also had a bizarre "bullet-dropping" phenomenon. Notice how off-host, you can shoot 11 bursts with your BR, then a second later, you'll suddenly go from 3 bullets to 5 or 6? According to the game, you never shot those bullets. In a game where a split second often means the difference between life and death, this is a big deal. There were also several other, more minor issues with the netcode that I won't get into.
My ideal Halo game would be something a lot more like Halo 1 and 2, with much better netcode, and without all of the necessary gimmicks of more recent games (equipment, armor abilities, sprint, perks, etc.) Hopefully the poor online population figures of Halo 4 makes 343 realize they need to go back more to their roots with Halo 5, rather than make their game conform to the rest of the industry like they did with Halo 4.
SicSemperTyrannis
Member
I wasn't saying he should spill the beans, have a vidoc and full walk through. I was simply suggesting that a nod of the hat from 343i to the core Halo community would go a LONG way in easing our fears that they haven't learned anything from the mess that wound up being Halo 4.
Evil Rabbit
Banned
Halo C.E>Halo 2> Halo 3=Halo 4> Halo Reach
I just hope they can bring this franchise back to it's glory days. =(
I just hope they can bring this franchise back to it's glory days. =(
Muffdraul
Member
I wasn't commenting on what you said, it was how you said it.