• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

E3 - Microsoft Halo Infinite launches holiday 2020, adds Xbox Project Scarlett version

Onikaan

Member
Jan 23, 2013
1,370
150
515
A lot of 343 is made up from Bungie - as much as you want to shit on them, calling them hacks ignores facts that they did work on most of the Halo series
Like who?

The point may be that the leads from Bungie are gone. I don't think anyone would argue that in a technical sense halo 4/5 were bad, they're both good looking games (especially halo 4) and they both play well. It's the direction that's gone down the toilet. The people at the helm are letting Halo slip into the abyss with poor decision making again, and again.
 

Bernkastel

Gold Member
Mar 8, 2018
3,984
6,984
840
COD MW says hi. It’s not only Xbox-PC, but PS4-Xbox-PC. It’s doing great. And you think Activision has done it already as we speak, yet MS won’t with their own first party title, on their own platforms? 🤣
And MS clearly avoided doing it with MCC. Halo's gameplay (and destiny for that matter)will put controller users at a disadvantage and anger the whole community. Why should they do what COD did based on the whims of a random NeoGaf poster?
ActiBliz also avoided it with Overwatch.
 
Last edited:

SpartanN92

Gold Member
Sep 7, 2012
4,577
7,002
975
Kentucky, it’s not as bad as Australia
A lot of 343 is made up from Bungie - as much as you want to shit on them, calling them hacks ignores facts that they did work on most of the Halo series
Jesus Christ it’s been nearly 10 years since the Bungie handover and people still spout this nonsense.
343 at the time of its founding had like 5 Bungie employees (Stinkles being the most famous) a few Bungie employees have come and gone during that time but they made up an extremely small percentage of 343’s workforce.

The primary people that we credit for making Halo what it is (Jason Jones, Joe Staten, Marcus Lehto, Marty O’Donnell, Jaimie Greismeir, Paul Bertone, Shi Ki Wang, Tyson Green, Lars Bakken etc) NEVER worked at 343.

The only 2 Bungie employees I can name off the top of my head that were there for Halo 5 are Vic Deleon (environment artist) and Stinkles.
 

REDRZA MWS

Member
Jan 7, 2018
390
430
300
And MS clearly avoided doing it with MCC. Halo's gameplay (and destiny for that matter)will put controller users at a disadvantage and anger the whole community. Why should they do what COD did based on the whims of a random NeoGaf poster?
ActiBliz also avoided it with Overwatch.
Once again, the MCC was released way before the latest COD:MW. At least the building blocks were very early while in Early Access.

Cross play is literally just becoming a thing. Within the last few months Sony finally made the feature fully accessible to developers in their PS4 toolkit.

MW was the FIRST big game to take the plunge. And with e sports taking off, I’m pretty sure when you add it all together Halo Infinite will be right where it needs to be for cross play.
 

Bernkastel

Gold Member
Mar 8, 2018
3,984
6,984
840
Once again, the MCC was released way before the latest COD:MW. At least the building blocks were very early while in Early Access.

Cross play is literally just becoming a thing. Within the last few months Sony finally made the feature fully accessible to developers in their PS4 toolkit.

MW was the FIRST big game to take the plunge. And with e sports taking off, I’m pretty sure when you add it all together Halo Infinite will be right where it needs to be for cross play.
The MCC you are talking about was only in Xbox One. It came to PC very recently. 343i knows cross play will destroy the community and you definitely don't know what you are talking about.
 

01011001

Member
Dec 4, 2018
2,768
3,898
415
The MCC you are talking about was only in Xbox One. It came to PC very recently. 343i knows cross play will destroy the community and you definitely don't know what you are talking about.
how will crossplay destroy the community exactly?
 

REDRZA MWS

Member
Jan 7, 2018
390
430
300
The MCC you are talking about was only in Xbox One. It came to PC very recently. 343i knows cross play will destroy the community and you definitely don't know what you are talking about.
Are you serious? Resorting to personal attacks? Lol. Clear sign of having nothing to add to a topic.

Cross play in no way destroys anything. Having a much larger, singular community gives any game LEGS. As a consumer having the game be populated and supported longer is a WIN.

Having more people engaged, playing, and spending money on DLC for as long as possible is a WIN for publishers/developers.

It’s 2020, act like it.
 

VertigoOA

...thinks mods should get a real job.
Jan 15, 2018
3,200
3,567
680
how will crossplay destroy the community exactly?
Umm what?

People underestimate the huge performance differences between m&kb versus controller.

ADS is quite effective for controllers. On PC far less so, just because of the pin point accuracy of cursor controls. Turning speed is the biggest difference. On PC you’ll be able to jump and perform a 360 degree spin with ease whereas turning speed on controller is maybe at most half of that. Even accuracy and aim correction techniques used for controller would still pale in comparison to mouse cursor aim.

Cross-platform pvp would be inherently broken without question. Console to console sure. Console to PC ... maybe not even when its just controller support because then frame speed is another factor.
 
Last edited:

01011001

Member
Dec 4, 2018
2,768
3,898
415
Umm what?

People underestimate the huge performance differences between m&kb versus controller.

ADS is quite effective for controllers. On PC far less so, just because of the pin point accuracy of cursor controls. Turning speed is the biggest difference. On PC you’ll be able to jump and perform a 360 degree spin with ease whereas turning speed on controller is maybe at most half of that. Even accuracy and aim correction techniques used for controller would still pale in comparison to mouse cursor aim.

Cross-platform pvp would be inherently broken without question. Console to console sure. Console to PC ... maybe not even when its just controller support because then frame speed is another factor.
well all I heard so far is Mouse players complaining that Controller players have a massive advantage so far 🤷‍♂️
also there is no harm in giving the option. most games with crossplay have a toggle to switch it off in the options. and especially for campaign crossplay is a must.
 

REDRZA MWS

Member
Jan 7, 2018
390
430
300
Umm what?

People underestimate the huge performance differences between m&kb versus controller.

ADS is quite effective for controllers. On PC far less so, just because of the pin point accuracy of cursor controls. Turning speed is the biggest difference. On PC you’ll be able to jump and perform a 360 degree spin with ease whereas turning speed on controller is maybe at most half of that. Even accuracy and aim correction techniques used for controller would still pale in comparison to mouse cursor aim.

Cross-platform pvp would be inherently broken without question. Console to console sure. Console to PC ... maybe not even when its just controller support because then frame speed is another factor.
It’s simple, they can add a toggle under the network settings in game as far as input. As I’ve said before, COD:MW is the first big AAA shooter to have full cross play between PS4/Xbox/PC. So far, it’s working flawlessly and I’ve yet to hear a single complaint.
 
Last edited:

Havoc2049

Member
Mar 30, 2011
1,969
1,202
820
Arizona
COD MW says hi. It’s not only Xbox-PC, but PS4-Xbox-PC. It’s doing great. And you think Activision has done it already as we speak, yet MS won’t with their own first party title, on their own platforms? 🤣
Shadowrun
Sea of Thieves
Forza Horizon 3
Forza Horizon 4
Forza Motorsport 7
Gears of War 4
Gears 5
Phantom Dust
Halo Wars 2
:pie_roffles::pie_roffles::pie_roffles::pie_roffles::pie_roffles::pie_roffles:
 

Mendou

Banned
Jan 31, 2020
179
497
270
ive always been one of those Halo purists who has always just wanted Halo CE with upgraded graphics and new maps. However, it just wont cut it these days. Overwatch has proven that you can still have a successful sprint-less shooter but it also adds a ton of different mobility options to make it fresh.

Halo Infinite, I hope, makes Halo THE skill-based console shooter again while simultaneously adding fresh and unique elements. Halo 5 definitely brought back halo 2/3 gameplay but it was still missing something. Idk if it was just the poor map quality or what but it was just not interesting enough to keep me playing.

I dont envy 343, its a very tall order for them to fill.
People expect new things and yet hate change at the sime time.
 

GymWolf

Member
Jun 11, 2019
8,292
11,926
555
Halo Infinite may not have multiplayer at launch. Last year we heard this same rumour.
it doesn't say that (i think :lollipop_grinning_sweat: )
they think campaign is gonna be the major experience in the game and the multy will be "secondary" with some adds-on during post-launch.

still sound strange, multy in halo is even more important than the campaign usually.
 

BigLee74

Member
Mar 14, 2014
391
788
495
Scotland
Urgh. Why do people think that a controller can compete with mouse and keyboard? It's such a huge advantage to pc players, and it cannot be understated. I HATE that I am forced into enabling crossplay in COD MW before I can play warzone. PC players can move and aim in a fashion that console players can only dream about.

I say this as a guy who has played Unreal Tournament on PC for the last 20 years, so I know what I'm taking about.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DrAspirino
Apr 25, 2012
1,024
1,898
870
Berlin, Germany
well all I heard so far is Mouse players complaining that Controller players have a massive advantage so far 🤷‍♂️
also there is no harm in giving the option. most games with crossplay have a toggle to switch it off in the options. and especially for campaign crossplay is a must.
I played PC Halo 5 against Controller players and got my ass handed to me. I think the aim assists on may scale differently on different skill levels. Players of lower capacity when it comes to shooters will easily wipe the floor with an equal M&K player because of controller aim assists whereas somebody who is already very proficient at aiming with a mouse can offset this gap and just profits from the faster rotation speed.

Of course this will never actually be comparable over games with different core mechanics and aim assists where a lot of factors (like bullet magnetism, stickyness, rotation assists, game mechanics etc.) are to be considered. That's why I'm very happy that gaming forums are known for considerate discussions that try to value everyones unique opinion and individual experiences going forward with this very complex topic that, in the end, is just supposed to bring us all closer together.

(Also, I would heavily support crossplay at least for vs. AI modes.)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sorne
Dec 16, 2018
133
107
345
Eugene
Like who?

The point may be that the leads from Bungie are gone. I don't think anyone would argue that in a technical sense halo 4/5 were bad, they're both good looking games (especially halo 4) and they both play well. It's the direction that's gone down the toilet. The people at the helm are letting Halo slip into the abyss with poor decision making again, and again.
who the fuck cares about bungie employees, there stupid af and destroyted there competitive scene with ODST and than Reach being an obvious rip off of CoD. They forgot what made halo the game it was and needed that IP taken away. Destiny is clear example of that, bungie can stay the fuck away from halo, thank you.
 

Onikaan

Member
Jan 23, 2013
1,370
150
515
who the fuck cares about bungie employees, there stupid af and destroyted there competitive scene with ODST and than Reach being an obvious rip off of CoD. They forgot what made halo the game it was and needed that IP taken away. Destiny is clear example of that, bungie can stay the fuck away from halo, thank you.
ODST didn't have competitive multiplayer mate.

Reach was controversial, true. But under the glaring mistakes (armour lock, bloom, which were also largely removed through playlists) was a bloody good Halo multiplayer experience. So, yeah I care. And anyone who loves Halo should. The Bungie of that era literally made the game we love. Why would you discredit them? No Bungie, No halo.
 

01011001

Member
Dec 4, 2018
2,768
3,898
415
who the fuck cares about bungie employees, there they're* stupid af and destroyted there their* competitive scene with ODST and than then* Reach being an obvious rip off rip-off* of CoD. They forgot what made halo the game it was and needed that IP taken away. Destiny is a* clear example of that, bungie can stay the fuck away from halo, thank you.
calling Reach a rip-off of CoD
 
Last edited:

SpartanN92

Gold Member
Sep 7, 2012
4,577
7,002
975
Kentucky, it’s not as bad as Australia
who the fuck cares about bungie employees, there stupid af and destroyted there competitive scene with ODST and than Reach being an obvious rip off of CoD. They forgot what made halo the game it was and needed that IP taken away. Destiny is clear example of that, bungie can stay the fuck away from halo, thank you.
I can see you speak with experience and reason. What was your least favorite part of ODST’s competitive multiplayer?
 
Dec 16, 2018
133
107
345
Eugene
You're ignoring the fact the campaign was still trash. You couldnt buy the ODST DLC by itself, they milked us for another $60 than threw in that DLC to force the competitive scene to buy it because you had to wait a few more weeks for the multiplayer dlc to be available to everyone else if i remember right. Point was just that ODST/Reach was when bungie started to decline imo.
 
Dec 16, 2018
133
107
345
Eugene
it's almost like HALO 3 ODST was a stand alone add-on to Halo 3... I know crazy!
It wasnt stand alone, you had to buy it with halo 3's multiplayer. it was the exact same engine/graphics. Felt like such a let down, reach was decent but awful in the esports scene at launch. by the time they took out all the shit that made reach "reach" (sprint, bloom, loadouts) the games popularity was dead.
 

SpartanN92

Gold Member
Sep 7, 2012
4,577
7,002
975
Kentucky, it’s not as bad as Australia
I agree with you that Reach began the decline of Halo's competitive scene. Still a solid MP just not Halo 2 or 3 level good. It was the first Halo multiplayer experience that was't better than the previous entry.
ODST was an awesome little adventure and your expectations for what it was were too high. You got a $45 single layer expansion, and a $15 map pack out of it. If the price is your biggest objection remember that it was 10 years ago lol You don't really miss the extra $10-$15 they probably overcharged for the package as a whole.
 

SenjutsuSage

Member
Jan 23, 2010
9,849
1,270
970
Like who?

The point may be that the leads from Bungie are gone. I don't think anyone would argue that in a technical sense halo 4/5 were bad, they're both good looking games (especially halo 4) and they both play well. It's the direction that's gone down the toilet. The people at the helm are letting Halo slip into the abyss with poor decision making again, and again.
Halo was tanking in terms of SP quality before 343i took over. Halo 3 released and to me was completely destroyed by COD 4 MW as a singleplayer experience. I was thinking how in the hell was a military shooter more epic than the grand finale for Halo? Didn't matter, to me it was. Halo 3 did not deliver what it promised. Reach was a big step up over Halo 3, but still didn't quite do it for me. Halo 4 is the best campaign in the franchise, with much needed gameplay improvements that Halo 5 took to the next level. Halo 4's story and character development are also unmatched in the franchise. Master Chief and Cortana were expertly handled as characters. You got to see way more depth to both their characters than you ever had before.

Halo 4 to me proved 343i was the right team for Halo. I feel even if Bungie stayed, we'd still be seeing Halo crapped on the way it gets crapped as of late. And many of the same people WERE in fact crapping on Halo when Bungie was in charge of it. It was just the moment Bungie became independent and signed that contract with Activision all of a sudden everybody was labeling Bungie's Halo games as perfect. Well, they were far from it. Once Halo hit the 360, it was never as good as the first 2 games until Halo 4 dropped imo. I can't speak to ODST because I honestly didn't really give it a shot.
 

Havoc2049

Member
Mar 30, 2011
1,969
1,202
820
Arizona
I thought the single player campaigns in ODST and Halo Reach were brilliant. ODST has a cool mysterious noir vibe to it with a great soundtrack to match. To finally get to play as an ODST was beyond cool. Reach had this tragic story taking place in a massive epic battle, with epic set pieces and battles and some great characters and character development. The character development in ODST and Reach was leagues better than the under developed and horribly written characters in Halo 5. The coolness of Blue Team was wasted in Halo 5. The only character to come out of Halo 5 who was even remotely likable was Buck and even he was a downgrade from his character in ODST. I just hope and pray that 343 can get their act together in Halo Infinite.
 
Apr 6, 2015
908
542
470
Urgh. Why do people think that a controller can compete with mouse and keyboard? It's such a huge advantage to pc players, and it cannot be understated. I HATE that I am forced into enabling crossplay in COD MW before I can play warzone. PC players can move and aim in a fashion that console players can only dream about.

I say this as a guy who has played Unreal Tournament on PC for the last 20 years, so I know what I'm taking about.
And yet there are controller players that shit all over KB/M players. Take a look at Dougisraw or even like Nickmercs (I believe he uses a controller) in Warzone. Doug uses a controller 95% of the time and destroys mouse users.

Aim assist combined with control over the sticks prove that a controller can hold its own. Your 20 years in Unreal adds nothing to that conversation. Unreal and Halo/COD are completely different. There’s a reason that people complained in Halo Reach and complain in Warzone about it.

Will an average mouse player beat a average controller player most of the time? Absolutely. That doesn’t mean that a controller isn’t competitive because guess what? Most mouse users are just as average at a mouse as most controller players are average on controller.
 

BigLee74

Member
Mar 14, 2014
391
788
495
Scotland
And yet there are controller players that shit all over KB/M players. Take a look at Dougisraw or even like Nickmercs (I believe he uses a controller) in Warzone. Doug uses a controller 95% of the time and destroys mouse users.

Aim assist combined with control over the sticks prove that a controller can hold its own. Your 20 years in Unreal adds nothing to that conversation. Unreal and Halo/COD are completely different. There’s a reason that people complained in Halo Reach and complain in Warzone about it.

Will an average mouse player beat a average controller player most of the time? Absolutely. That doesn’t mean that a controller isn’t competitive because guess what? Most mouse users are just as average at a mouse as most controller players are average on controller.
I don't care that you know a few guys on a controller that can hold their own. I'm speaking from personal experience as a guy that can use a keyboard and mouse well, and am decent on a controller. I know that keyboard and mouse me could wipe the floor with controller me, and I would guess 95% of all controller users - and at Halo, COD or Unreal Tournament (all of which reward headshots very well)

Totally unfair match up, that I will happily vote out of every time.

You said it yourself. "Will an average mouse player beat an average controller player most of the time? ABSOLUTELY". I rest my case.
 
Last edited:

TBiddy

Member
Mar 16, 2015
3,655
3,289
675
Denmark
Is this the thread for admitting sins?

I've never played Halo. I bought the MCC bundle with my OG XB1, but I hated the Warthog controls and got mad. Hopefully they will fix that for Infinite.
 

X-Fighter

Member
Jan 10, 2020
2,223
3,344
355
I've never played Halo. I bought the MCC bundle with my OG XB1, but I hated the Warthog controls and got mad. Hopefully they will fix that for Infinite.
I hope not. That's iconic Halo Warthog control that has been like that since the beginning, I actually always liked that
 
  • Love
Reactions: cHaOs667

TBiddy

Member
Mar 16, 2015
3,655
3,289
675
Denmark
I hope not. That's iconic Halo Warthog control that has been like that since the beginning, I actually always liked that
Could be an acquired taste, I guess.. but jeeeesus that was annoying.

Anyways, I'm really interested in seeing what Infinite is about. Personally I hope it's a reboot of sorts, allowing the new players to be engrossed in the story from the get-go.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CatLady