Halo |OT3| Remember Reach?

Brolic Gaoler

formerly Alienshogun
Oct 23, 2009
20,158
0
0
Illinois
www.youtube.com
I disagree. One thing I feel Battlefield 3 did greatly was its CGB on consoles, it worked beautifully. Hardcore rush was my favourite game type and the flexibility of BF3's system allowed me to tailor the filters so I could just play that and nothing else. I don't see why Halo 4 can't be like that, especially being a series which has tremendous strength in its flexibility.

It'd be particularly brilliant at allowing for excellent forge maps to be quickly tested and played amongst the larger community, which can only be a good thing.
You're missing the point. I'm not against CGB at all. I just don't think it's the fix all you think it is. The issue is larger than simply making a CGB to fix it.


Yup. Quake born and bred (was known as ALMIGHTY GOD in those days). Dedicated servers were always a mixed bag, with all the very real positives mentioned, but also some trial and error and breaking-in on servers to find a good fit. Not to mention all the various types of single-level instagib-like servers that made up 90% of the online population.

My main issue with the dedicated-servers-saves-everyone theory is that it places the most emphasis on the hardest core clan players. If you're casual or only have a few hours a week of gaming tops, you're not looking for a clan or for any kind of time investment really. Matchmaking playlists serve the that time-starved audience very well while still serving the hardcore audience mostly well so its a decent trade-off, although it has its fair share of woes. It could definitely be improved though.
Yep, and that/those issues would only be compounded on a console game with no dedicated servers.
 

kylej

Banned
Mar 2, 2006
12,362
0
0
Boston
People going aggro about a thing that they think would be nice to have, that they knew they weren't going to have a long time ago, but have regurgitated it again so that the conversation can continue to be three or four people repeating the same thing over and over again.
Or maybe people are wondering why Halo 4 won't have the same matchmaking features as GoW and BF3.
 
Yup. Quake born and bred (was known as ALMIGHTY GOD in those days). Dedicated servers were always a mixed bag, with all the very real positives mentioned, but also some trial and error and breaking-in on servers to find a good fit. Not to mention all the various types of single-level instagib-like servers that made up 90% of the online population.

My main issue with the dedicated-servers-saves-everyone theory is that it places the most emphasis on the hardest core clan players. If you're casual or only have a few hours a week of gaming tops, you're not looking for a clan or for any kind of time investment really. Matchmaking playlists serve the that time-starved audience very well while still serving the hardcore audience mostly well so its a decent trade-off, although it has its fair share of woes. It could definitely be improved though.
I've also played since the original Quake, and I personally prefer focused matchmaking over dedicated servers.
 

Conor 419

Banned
Oct 23, 2011
5,977
0
0
You're missing the point. I'm not against CGB at all. I just don't think it's the fix all you think it is. The issue is larger than simply making a CGB to fix it.
Okay, maybe I was exaggerating the number of things it'd do to try and get more support for it, but I think it's clear that it's still a good system that does have a good few potential benefits for Halo.

I'm sure 343i have their reasons, it'd just be nice if they disclosed them because at the end of the day, kylej makes a valid point. Why is Halo 4 not competitive with Battlefield 3 or Gears 3?
 

squidhands

Member
Mar 16, 2009
8,169
0
0
Austin, TX
twitter.com
I just don't like the idea of announcing all these new, controversial things without giving proper explanation. I'd rather have them wait with announcing certain features until the idea for it is finalized. Then, when everything is complete, you can announce the new feature and give good explanation on how it's going to work in the game.

For example, if the weapon drops aren't finalized yet, I would have preferred 343 waiting with the announcement of it. Now, we know it's going to be in the game, but we still don't know enough details to really understand how it's going to work in the game. I don't really like being in the half dark with this kind of stuff.
I can understand where the frustration comes from, but I always just assume that eventually we'll get clarification on whatever it is before the game comes out and take everything that's said with hefty grains of salt if it doesn't come straight from 343. If I had my way, the first batch of real information would be doled out in the form of a vidoc and bypass the gaming new sites all together. Alas that this is not the case, but I pretend that journalists are playing the Telephone Game and treat their information as such.

MCA from the Beasties died, time to fall into depression and listen to the Beasties all day. RIP
Holy shit!! :-(
 

HigherLevel

Member
Jul 26, 2011
3,270
0
0
The complaints about 343i not explaining every decision is funny too. What other developer explains every single decision they make as they announce them?
 

Karl2177

Member
Jul 3, 2010
9,344
0
0
You realize you're contradicting yourself?

You're talking about player choice while supporting removing that choice. Removing party chat isn't going to facilitate communication at all, what it DOES do is remove features already inherent in the system (broken record). The people who were going to communicate already were planning on communicating, at least until they run into a racist 10 year old. You're asking for features to be removed. Again, this makes no fucking sense.

It doesn't matter if it's one playlist or 5. There's a possibility that playlist would be one of, if not my most preferred playlist. Essentially the game becomes less enjoyable because a playlist I enjoy is less enjoyable now because a feature was added to the game to prevent me from accessing an XBL feature that I pay for. This new feature serves no purpose because now not only does it prevent me from using party chat, but it doesn't make me talk in game either.

And there's thousands of "me."

This is becoming a round and round discussion though with the same shit being said. So I'll stop there unless something new is added.
This is one point that I can completely understand and get behind. But there has to be some level of compromise in it. You go in alone, you should be encouraged to talk to your team. Sadly there's no actual way of doing doing that(you yourself said that you wouldn't even talk). This leaves the contrapositive, which is discouraging the lack of communication. The most feasible way to do that is blocking party chat. Is it the best solution? No. But sadly it's impossible to have everyone be mature and intelligent over Xbox Live.
 

Conor 419

Banned
Oct 23, 2011
5,977
0
0
The complaints about 343i not explaining every decision is funny too. What other developer explains every single decision they make as they announce them?
I find that most developers tend to explain their most controversial decisions. It's not like we're asking 343i to explain something minor.
 

Brolic Gaoler

formerly Alienshogun
Oct 23, 2009
20,158
0
0
Illinois
www.youtube.com
I find that most developers tend to explain their most controversial decisions. It's not like we're asking 343i to explain something minor.
Not including something that's never been in the game before isn't controversial. It WOULD be controversial if it had been in the game up until now, and then removed.

I wasn't even referring to dedicated servers in this case. There's been plenty of controversial decisions the community would like to know the rationale behind.
Neither was I.
 

Conor 419

Banned
Oct 23, 2011
5,977
0
0
Not including something that's never been in the game before isn't controversial. It WOULD be controversial if it had been in the game up until now, and then removed.
I wasn't even referring to dedicated servers in this case. There's been plenty of controversial decisions the community would like to know the rationale behind.
 

The Librarian

Banned
Apr 22, 2008
44,148
0
0
27
It's just a game.

It's not even finished yet.

Let's calm down!
Have you seen my avatar lately, bro? I'm about to break that stick in two.

The scene from which my avatar is taken from, Littlefoot isn't really angry. He's fake angry. Just to make sure everyone knows!
 
Oct 6, 2009
13,552
1
0
Pittsburgh
Long ass chain of replies inbound. I started making this post yesterday (or maybe the day before?) and then got super busy, and now I added even more. Anyways..

Holy shit, I completely forgot about something I saw in the campaign demo that I MEANT to talk about, but spaced on until I read this sentence!

So there's this scene where Chief actually climbs up some broken scaffolding - hand-over-hand stuff, like I'm playing Uncharted or something. And I ask Frank (who's controlling the character) "this isn't going to be one of those things where you throw in a new mechanic, we play with it once at the beginning of the game, and then we never see it again, right?" He says no, these skills will be used throughout the game.

It had the same weird (weird to me, anyway) look as the prying-open-the-doors scene in the First Look trailer - in fact, you can see a second or so of the actual climb (with MUCH less detail to the environment) in that clip, right after the doors open. It's not a QTE - you're actually controlling the Chief at that point, and if you stop climbing, you'll fall.

Can't believe I forgot about that!
That sounds awesome (after Frankies clarification of how you are in control, like a larger ladder of sorts).. Moments like this will certainly add more of a cinematic feel to the campaign while showing you what MC is truly capable of. I like it.


What's this? I don't even...

Oh hi, first post.

I was a Halo CE fan. Then I became a Halo 2 fan. At some point I was a Halo 3 fan. Halo ODST snuggled with me for a while. Then Halo Reach took the ring. For a while there I was a Halo Anniversary fan. Oh yes, Halo Wars is no where on that list. Sorry.

This was the problem when I wanted to write something about what I experienced. I wanna give you all something to mull over, but at the end I'm not like your typical player. I can get upset over stuff, but I let it slide after a while. So yah, seeing Cortana doing the Tom Cruise floating window thingie was off putting, but 'da fuck, It's Cortana! In all her glowing blue tit self! Let's get this thing going! No different then the Elites talking classical bad-guy English in Halo 2 nor the damn rocket-deodorant sticks under Pillar of Autumn in Reach.

I can see how folks are going to look at a few levels and see some COD similarities, but I'm not someone that right off says "BOO that sucks!" I wanna see what they do with it. As I said, after a few games I got into it. "More immersion"? Hearing Chief breathe? Do I really want that in full-on 5.1? But I'm curious how it'll play out. With MP, it was pretty fucking cool to jump around in the beta maps, with that MLG dude schooling us and us schooling some of the NFL dudes. I really couldn't complain. I'll wait until the very end when the game finally ships to say yay or nay, but I guess what I was trying to get folks to brace themselves for is that if it *does* turn out to be a big change, soak it in... see what you think. Don't just be a knee-jerk jerk! It's unrealistic to think new devs aren't going to want to change things up. THAT DOESN'T MEAN IT'S BAD CHANGE!

Claude said something that I thought was pretty cool. He may have relayed it in some of his other posts here or elsewhere, so sorry for repeating: he met some folks at the event that were super psyched. They said they were tired of Halo being the same old Halo... they had left the game maybe around Halo 3. And playing this got them excited. I think Frankie would like to hear that. We don't all live on an island and get to permanently carry the conch shell. Take a breath folks and lets see what the folks at 343i put out.

What's not going to surprise me is if some folks read the above and say "That's it! I'm outta here. The game is fucked. It's all a mess!" I can't do anything about spurring such dick-ishness. But I think you're being a fool. A dick-fool at that.

- m
Just wanted to say thanks for the information and write-up!

I would point out these moments are rare and only happen during events that are things you can't normally do physically. The first level has a couple of them to "train" you, but they won't be frequent or presented as QTE problems. They're transitional or cinematic vignettes that don't yank you out of the action. Also, if you don't smash that Elite he tosses you down the shaft.
Once again, this sounds really cool... Out of curiosity, when in theater mode can you watch these scenes from third person or is the camera set like in cut scenes?

Oh god. :lol

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2012/05/02/the-arsenal-of-halo-4.aspx

The Arsenal of Halo 4


RAILGUN
DESIGNATION: Asymmetric Recoilless Carbine-920
MANUFACTURER: Acheron Security
The ARC-920 Railgun is a compact-channel linear accelerator that fires a high-explosive round at incredible speed, delivering both kinetic and explosive force to both hard and soft targets alike.
As other have said, it seems like it may be a long range, scopeless 'vehicle sniper' that shoots something mini Gauss rounds. One way or another it seems awesome.

Or does it replace the awful "sunburn" beam rifle in reach now? That gun needs to die, I'd rather have the Covie sniper back from H3...
I like the Focus Rifle.. But it really feels a lot more useless post beta. Still, it really is a neat gun.

PAX sold out. :( I'm sad.
Well... I guess that saves me the trouble of trying to afford the trip..still. Ah well. =/

Saving, printing, laminating, Framing.



Framed at my work desk, inspirational.

Can't wait till forge is revealed.
Amazing.

I won't.





Those four locked sequentially. "I'll shoot this guy, well damn. Okay, that gu...fuck. This one the....dammit. Maybe that last one....fuck everything!"
That has literally happened to me at that exact spot before, and my god is it frustrating.. Honestly, they should have given the Brutes drop shields.

That cover is a mixture of awesome and awkward, it sort of has a weird action figure-y look to the spartan, I can't really explain it. I would have preferred more subtle artwork, but none the less I cant wait for the book.

I think it looks better in this picture:

Its funny that you posted that as it reminded me of something I noticed before..they mildly changed the design:



 
Have you seen my avatar lately, bro? I'm about to break that stick in two.

The scene from which my avatar is taken from, Littlefoot isn't really angry. He's fake angry. Just to make sure everyone knows!
I WRITE IN CAPITAL LETTERS

BECAUSE OF REASONS
Simmer down now!

Seriously, everything we're complaining about was probably already decided before they started working on the game.

They won't and can't change things because people bitch. They made the choices they thought were best for the time and resources they had.

Sure it sounds like in a few cases those choices were wrong but they can't just go back
 

Plywood

NeoGAF's smiling token!
May 27, 2009
58,616
0
0
SC V: The Penis Wars

How did this even get past them?
Simmer down now!

Seriously, everything we're complaining about was probably already decided before they started working on the game.

They won't and can't change things because people bitch. They made the choices they thought were best for the time and resources they had.

Sure it sounds like in a few cases those choices were wrong but they can't just go back
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWjBDPKGJPk
 

Ramirez

Member
Jun 7, 2004
34,255
0
1,310
Can someone explain that book cover to me? Is the Spartan standing on the glass of another ship and it's looking out...?
 

Slightly Live

Dirty tag dodger
Mar 6, 2007
13,310
0
0
Northern Ireland
www.forwarduntodawn.com
The complaints about 343i not explaining every decision is funny too. What other developer explains every single decision they make as they announce them?
I wasn't complaining nor was I asking or expecting 343 to explain every little decision. There's nothing wrong with questioning a developer about their product. There is an entire industry of products to compare with and issues relating to similar products, ie features in popular FPS console games, are common concerns for fans and even casual players.

Right now nobody is asking 343 any hard questions. Hard question don't get asked when exclusive front covers are published. That's cool and all and totally expected in this industry with it's incestuous relationship with "journalists".

Even if I disagree about the servers issue, there's nothing wrong with pushing for a response for those that care about it.

Halo 4 is definitely bringing significant changes to the franchise. I'm not happy just knowing what the changes are, I'd like to know the justifications for making them in the first place. So would many other hardcore fans.

Of course, I recognise that I'm greedy and selfish fan with little patience. =)
 

Risen

Member
Apr 12, 2010
1,807
0
0
Dedi's are not a magic bullet, but they are an improvement. They could have both and you could still enjoy your transatlantic lag fest. Fact is, I get laggy games in Reach. Definitely not because of my connection so much as it is the people they pair me up with that are far and away from where I live. Now they could add a region ticker, but the fact is P2P is P2P and there will always be a difference no matter how well the netcode tries to cover it up.
An improvement over what? In what way? Fact is, you'll get laggy games on dedicated servers. Latency is latency, and the internet infrastructure is what it is. The only way overall improvement will occur for any individual, is if they are close to a regional server on which they play all the time. But now you are forced to play on that close server in order to have that experience you crave and you have an opportunity cost of not being able to play with much of your friends list and have games that are acceptable from a network condition.

There is less of a difference than you think in reality, when comparing experiences across hundreds of thousands of users, or even millions.

Battlefield is unplayable for me unless I'm with people in and around Texas. It is just as unplayable for my friends in NY or LA when playing on regional servers close to me. Yet we can hop on Reach and have a MUCH smoother experience overall. Indeed I can expand that to friends in the UK or Netherlands. Laggy games will always be part of online multi-player and have dedicated servers won't change that for you unless you are playing on a server close to you (just like playing on a host close to you in P2P).

P2P in a shooter is a superior network solution for online FPS games when taking into account all factors (up to and including cost). The only term on which a dedi system is superior is if you are willing to settle for only playing in a low population centered around one geographic area... and even then, the P2P system would work fine.

The only way to nearly eliminate laggy games is to play on LAN.

Editing just to say I read your post on the things you want and don't want. Dedi's will only eliminate the host switching, and problems that arise because of it... blood shots, a noticed difference in weapons, etc will all still happen on dedi's depending on the regional server on which you play. Obviously it would be reduced the closer it is to you... as would the experience on P2P. It again goes back to deciding you want to play with a reduced pool of players who are close to you in order to have that straight line you mentioned. But you already get that in P2P with a close host...
 

Woorloog

Banned
Apr 18, 2010
19,089
0
0
RAILGUN
DESIGNATION: Asymmetric Recoilless Carbine-920
MANUFACTURER: Acheron Security
The ARC-920 Railgun is a compact-channel linear accelerator that fires a high-explosive round at incredible speed, delivering both kinetic and explosive force to both hard and soft targets alike.
Recoilless? Really? I wonder where the recoil goes. Even laser weapons have recoil (though that recoil is 1/c so it is neiglible). Electromagnetically launched weapons certainly do have recoil.

Though maybe it is recoilless-in-name-only, i've understood that "recoilless rifles" (think bazooka) are not actually recoilless in practice (maybe the "kick" is not recoil, but other effects but can be compared to recoil?). Just speculating, i don't know actually. Correct me if i'm wrong.

/end realism-rant

PS why have railgun if you still use high explosive projectile? You could simply use chemical propellant to launch a HE projectile, that small railgun cannot provide any real advantage over chemical propellant based weapons. Railguns are useful when you want to launch a projectile that deals damage through pure kinetic energy.
 
Oct 6, 2009
13,552
1
0
Pittsburgh
Can someone explain that book cover to me? Is the Spartan standing on the glass of another ship and it's looking out...?
Yup, I think so. It just kinda looks awkward, I think its due to the spartan looking like a slightly different art style than the ships below.

I wasn't complaining nor was I asking or expecting 343 to explain every little decision. There's nothing wrong with questioning a developer about their product. There is an entire industry of products to compare with and issues relating to similar products, ie features in popular FPS console games, are common concerns for fans and even casual players.

Right now nobody is asking 343 any hard questions. Hard question don't get asked when exclusive front covers are published. That's cool and all and totally expected in this industry with it's incestuous relationship with "journalists".

Even if I disagree about the servers issue, there's nothing wrong with pushing for a response for those that care about it.

Halo 4 is definitely bringing significant changes to the franchise. I'm not happy just knowing what the changes are, I'd like to know the justifications for making them in the first place. So would many other hardcore fans.

Of course, I recognise that I'm greedy and selfish fan with little patience. =)
Well I do agree that the information for Halo 4 has been rather.. frustrating. I do understand some of the decisions, but other parts of this news cycle has definitely left me confused. I think a little more transparency of what is happening and why would help a lot.
 

TheOddOne

Member
Jan 13, 2008
38,638
0
0
Netherlands
Well I do agree that the information for Halo 4 has been rather.. frustrating. I do understand some of the decisions, but other parts of this news cycle has definitely left me confused. I think a little more transparency of what is happening and why would help a lot.
This is how I feel too, just too much "trust us" and "feels like Halo". Also, give us something concrete to look at, not snippets.
 

Risen

Member
Apr 12, 2010
1,807
0
0
Recoilless? Really? I wonder where the recoil goes. Even laser weapons have recoil (though that recoil is 1/c so it is neiglible). Electromagnetically launched weapons certainly do have recoil.

Though maybe it is recoilless-in-name-only, i've understood that "recoilless rifles" (think bazooka) are not actually recoilless in practice (maybe the "kick" is not recoil, but other effects but can be compared to recoil?). Just speculating, i don't know actually. Correct me if i'm wrong.

/end realism-rant

PS why have railgun if you still use high explosive projectile? You could simply use chemical propellant to launch a HE projectile, that small railgun cannot provide any real advantage over chemical propellant based weapons. Railguns are useful when you want to launch a projectile that deals damage through pure kinetic energy.
But railguns are new hotness and chemical propellant based weapons are old and busted.
 

Woorloog

Banned
Apr 18, 2010
19,089
0
0
But railguns are new hotness and chemical propellant based weapons are old and busted.
Yeah, well, "new tech is better than old tech" is a stupid misconception people have. Hell, new tech ain't necessary even as cool.
This all said... can i have a repeatingrailguncrossbow that fires molten plasma that explodes in beams of lasers in every direction
 

PsychoRaven

Member
Feb 24, 2005
21,529
0
0
39
the psych ward
www.twitch.tv
Halo 2 looks pretty sweet at 1680x1050 8xaa on my monitor, but damn its weird playing it without a controller.

Wireless receiver needs to be here already.
Yes it does. The game really looks amazing for the most part. You also end up getting spoiled by the lack of texture pop in. I literally can't go back and play the Xbox version anymore because of that and the fact that it gets the ghosting issues it has when running BC on the 360.