Halo |OT3| Remember Reach?

Our solution isn't to pull out community maps on the basis that they're community maps, it's on the basis that they play badly. How about this? Let other communities recommend the maps, then have us run customs on them. Because honestly, I don't trust the "tests" that these other communities run if they've led us to maps like these.
The whole point of the CC was that no one community control the maps that get into matchmaking. One community ending up with control over matchmaking submitted maps would lead to total dogshit, and every fucking community thinks their maps would be the ones that would be universally praised.


What would you say the maps that are in matchmaking (Let's say Team Slayer) are designed for?
They're designed for the gametypes they've been submitted for. We don't need to be MLG Superpros to see if a map works. Much like how a sports analyst may run the 40 yard in 30 minutes, but he knows what good football play is.
 
Sep 17, 2009
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I agree, but then like I mentioned before, you're going to limit the community maps in MM to one gametype. Great maps designed for other gametypes will be instantly forgotten. And if it's 4v4 slayer, what about BTB? What about 5v5 objective? Invasion?
Great maps designed for those gametypes are already being forgotten so I don't get what your point is. Objective has zero community maps in it and there's nothing wrong with that. And it needs to go back to 4v4 already, 5v5 Objective is terrible. That's what custom games and the file share browser are for.

Bungie ran a Community BTB playlist, if 343 does that again then they should pair proper gametypes with the maps if you really want to see how a BTB Flag or Slayer map works. In fact, they shouldn't even use in game voting numbers as a metric for what's good. Players voting for something in game just to see what it is or if it's any good would just artificially inflate those numbers. There should be a poll or something on Halo Waypoint after the playlist has run it's course, people can vote there for what they want to see in the playlist. It's not perfect, but just an idea off the top of my head. But I'm so whatever about BTB, I haven't touched it since before Heavies was added. If you ask me, BTB should be DLC required and consolidated with Anniversary BTB.

And don't even ask me about Invasion.

Do you mean why would there need to be a community beta playlist or why does 343/Bungie insist on adding community maps to any playlist? I can't answer the second question for you. (Other than they're just trying to appreciate all of the Forge focused communities by giving them a reachable goal). We're just trying to help when we're asked to.
The latter. I assumed it was you insisting on community maps because in your little kerfuffle with thezerofire you were asking him to suggest other maps besides The Pit and Refuge, which to me and probably a lot of other people here, is good enough. The Pit is a tested and loved map, we all know how it plays and that it's not trash. Refuge is a thousand times better than Asylum, I don't know why it hasn't been replaced yet. Fix up some of the stock maps (like replace the Shotgun and Sword on Countdown with anything else, and holy shit cleanse Battle Canyon of all those power weapons) and you're golden. Quality over quantity, less is more, etc.
 
Bungie ran a Community BTB playlist, if 343 does that again then they should pair proper gametypes with the maps if you really want to see how a BTB Flag or Slayer map works. In fact, they shouldn't even use in game voting numbers as a metric for what's good. Players voting for something in game just to see what it is or if it's any good would just artificially inflate those numbers. There should be a poll or something on Halo Waypoint after the playlist has run it's course, people can vote there for what they want to see in the playlist.
It wouldn't make sense to have a tiny percentage of people vote in content for a playlist over all the actual people that played it. A small minority of people that actually play Halo online go to any of the forums.
 
Sep 17, 2009
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It wouldn't make sense to have a tiny percentage of people vote in content for a playlist over all the actual people that played it. A small minority of people that actually play Halo online go to any of the forums.
If they don't care enough to get off their asses to get back on their asses on a computer to vote for maps they actually want to see in the game then who gives a shit about their opinion. These are the type of people who're happy with whatever, they play whatever is handed to them while the rest of us suffer AR starts on Uncaged.

Go silly run on sentences.

Also, my idea would be with the assumption that a splash screen would go tell you to vote or fuck off.
 

Fracas

#fuckonami
Aug 31, 2011
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Watched The Avengers a couple hours ago. The first 45 mins felt like filler, but hour and a half after that was really good. I'd say it lies below the Batman trilogy, but is better than most traditional superhero movies.
 
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Watched The Avengers a couple hours ago. The first 45 mins felt like filler, but hour and a half after that was really good. I'd say it lies below the Batman trilogy, but is better than most traditional superhero movies.
Batman has better characterization, overall pacing (TDK ran long), themes, yadda yadda yadda. Can't touch Avengers' fun, hype, swagger and pure comic book goodness though. We covered this two pages ago: Batman trilogy are the better movies, Avengers is the better superhero flick. Can't go wrong with either.


Illuminati should be in charge of what maps get into Halo 4. IMO.
Illuminati owns my mind, soul and my...lobby?
 
Sep 17, 2009
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Yes, let's just ignore actual matchmaking data and let twitter spam and facebook campaigns control matchmaking
I already explained that in game voting numbers are artificially inflated from people voting for something just to try it out. There's a plus 1 for that map that they probably don't even like! And then you have people strategically voting for whatever is on top just to fuck with the other team. They probably didn't want to play that map, just wanted to screw the other guys, but that's okay, plus 1 for that map too! Gee they must love it! But whatever, couldn't possibly any worse than matchmaking management right now.
 
I already explained that in game voting numbers are artificially inflated from people voting for something just to try it out. There's a plus 1 for that map that they probably don't even like! But whatever, couldn't possibly any worse than matchmaking management right now.
Somebody voting to try a map once to try it out isn't going to be deciding a map's fate. They know how to interpret the data.

Also, just for the record: Ellis confirmed that 343 can see votes that failed.

So if you vote for KotH and say Oddball wins, they still see your KotH vote on the backend. So vote for what you want.
 
Sep 17, 2009
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I should also mention that in my original post I stated that my idea was not perfect and that it was just off the top of my head. Probably spent about 2 seconds thinking about it so by no means is it fool-proof. You just didn't feel like quoting or acknowledging that for whatever reason.

I know my idea isn't perfect, but really, the alternative isn't any better if we're going by how things currently are.

Calm down Barrow Roll they totes analyzed the TU data and saw no one wanted Squad Slayer, now we got ZB and 85% in one 4v4 playlist!


V Good point Risen.
 
Apr 12, 2010
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Somebody voting to try a map once to try it out isn't going to be deciding a map's fate. They know how to interpret the data.

Also, just for the record: Ellis confirmed that 343 can see votes that failed.

So if you vote for KotH and say Oddball wins, they still see your KotH vote on the backend. So vote for what you want.
LOLOL so how do they know you weren't voting for DMR's, AR's, radar, no radar, the map, or the gametype? To say nothing that a vote for one thing may actually be a vote to avoid something else... the lesser evil so-to-speak.

Seeing votes is irrelevant when there is no way to identify positively what and why people are voting. It's empty data that someone has to guess at a meaning unless that someone ventures into a corner of the internet where folks bitch and complain about the system... wait, they may not get it even then... never mind.


Edit: Not trying to be a negative Nancy... the above probably reads sharper than I was thinking it... statistical data is a bit of a hot button with me. Data is just that... data - we place importance on it. Gathering it is great, but the importance is not the number itself, but the why behind the number being present.
 
LOLOL so how do they know you weren't voting for DMR's, AR's, radar, no radar, the map, or the gametype? To say nothing that a vote for one thing may actually be a vote to avoid something else... the lesser evil so-to-speak.

Seeing votes is irrelevant when there is no way to identify positively what and why people are voting. It's empty data that someone has to guess at a meaning unless that someone ventures into a corner of the internet where folks bitch and complain about the system... wait, they may not get it even then... never mind.


Edit: Not trying to be a negative Nancy... the above probably reads sharper than I was thinking it... statistical data is a bit of a hot button with me. Data is just that... data - we place importance on it. Gathering it is great, but the importance is not the number itself, but the why behind the number being present.
I can't share the specifics, but they've already indicated to us that they very well know when people are voting for certain types of maps and when they're voting for a gametype. They process millions of votes per day. They can collect trends from that. A forum post is going to get what, 500 votes over the course of two weeks?
 
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I really feel like moving forward, it should be 343's obligation to make sure all of the playlists are fair when you enter them. MLG or any other playlist should not be allowed to force single players to play groups of 4, 99% of the time it's a miserable experience for the singles.

TLDR version, 4 better have Merc playlists or force parties to play other parties.
 
Jan 25, 2010
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www.neogaf.com
I really feel like moving forward, it should be 343's obligation to make sure all of the playlists are fair when you enter them. MLG or any other playlist should not be allowed to force single players to play groups of 4, 99% of the time it's a miserable experience for the singles.

TLDR version, 4 better have Merc playlists or force parties to play other parties.
Agreed but add in no splitting parties either.
 
Oct 19, 2009
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Congratulations! You're my favorite O'Gravy!

Besides Krow.
Here on out is time for pure positivity from me. Finished my last year of exams in university. Life's too good. Halo 4 could play worse than a game hosted by Over but I'll be smiling all the way.
Congrats to the both of you! Dont think I had a chance to say that about DrFu's Doctorate either.


Oh man, if there's one thing that's irritating in Halo 3 now, when me and bobs go in as a party of 2 into multi team and end up on separate teams.. it's like, really?
I have played since with a dude from HBO (Sup Chief!) and we had a pretty good run, I wonder why it was being so stupid that day we tried to play? I have had days like that where it seems awful and others where it works properly, except for the 3 man parties that go in, I wonder what else makes it so inconsistent.
 
Oct 26, 2011
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Up for debate.
up early for a brand new day. University is over. finished education after 18 years of my life. feels good man. over the next 3 months i have to plan my exit strategy. Finally get to go home
Western Australia
and i dont think i'll ever come back here so this summer I'll do whatever I feel like doing.
First order of business * fires up mass effect 3
lets do dis
 
Oct 19, 2009
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up early for a brand new day. University is over. finished education after 18 years of my life. feels good man. over the next 3 months i have to plan my exit strategy. Finally get to go home
Western Australia
and i dont think i'll ever come back here
so this summer I'll do whatever I feel like doing.
First order of business * fires up mass effect 3
lets do dis
Oh damn congrats, and we gonna miss you bro. :( What are you planning to do when you go back?
 
up early for a brand new day. University is over. finished education after 18 years of my life. feels good man. over the next 3 months i have to plan my exit strategy. Finally get to go home
Western Australia
and i dont think i'll ever come back here so this summer I'll do whatever I feel like doing.
First order of business * fires up mass effect 3
lets do dis


Will miss you bro.
 
I have played since with a dude from HBO (Sup Chief!) and we had a pretty good run, I wonder why it was being so stupid that day we tried to play? I have had days like that where it seems awful and others where it works properly, except for the 3 man parties that go in, I wonder what else makes it so inconsistent.
Seems like they just improved the algorithm. Shishka said a while back in Optimatch that team splitting was a separate flag for Halo 3 MM, but turning it on had a noticable effect on their end on matching times.

Reach must just have better algorithm, the backend is more flexible, or some other change in how it works. They were able to do stuff post-launch like make Invasion work outside of it's playlist which was not possible at launch, because Invasion is technically 6 teams of 2 on the backend.
 
Feb 27, 2011
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up early for a brand new day. University is over. finished education after 18 years of my life. feels good man. over the next 3 months i have to plan my exit strategy. Finally get to go home
Western Australia
and i dont think i'll ever come back here so this summer I'll do whatever I feel like doing.
First order of business * fires up mass effect 3
lets do dis
Oh shit, good luck man, will talk to you over live. <3
 
up early for a brand new day. University is over. finished education after 18 years of my life. feels good man. over the next 3 months i have to plan my exit strategy. Finally get to go home
Western Australia
and i dont think i'll ever come back here so this summer I'll do whatever I feel like doing.
First order of business * fires up mass effect 3
lets do dis
So wait, now we gotta play on your crappy Australian connection? Yuck!

Congrats man, and good luck with your future career!
 
Jan 2, 2011
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Ireland
up early for a brand new day. University is over. finished education after 18 years of my life. feels good man. over the next 3 months i have to plan my exit strategy. Finally get to go home
Western Australia
and i dont think i'll ever come back here so this summer I'll do whatever I feel like doing.
First order of business * fires up mass effect 3
lets do dis
You'd better stay active on here/facebook/Live after you leave or I r gun b sad. I'm also very jealous, I just want university to be done with :p

You'd better fly back and visit sometime, I'm sure as hell not going to giant spider land, no sir haha
 
Jan 13, 2008
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I really don't like how there's no visual feedback you're firing the weapon, but I suddenly can't remember there ever being in any of the previous games. :lol
The more I see "Killing Spree" and "Headshot" being displayed in the center of the screen, the more I feel that it just isn't needed to be put there for player justification. The subtle way via icons and voice cues are still the better way to convey it, now it feels cluttered.